Hamba Tuhan Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 Where is the sharing in these times of relative wealth?In my ward. 2
Ahab Posted November 13, 2012 Posted November 13, 2012 Should the govt. have given it to them for free? Or should the govt have not built up surplus in the first place?What's your answer as someone who would use the principle of charity to gulde you?Do you need to get paid with money before you will help someone?Are you willing to actually labor to help other people have good things in their life... without you getting any money from them?One thing that holds me back sometimes is when I don't have the materials needed to do a particular project, so then someone needs to get those materials by paying "money" for them because the people with the materials won't give them out of the charity in their own hearts... they're in the money making business, so they want only money for those materials. But money really isn't necessary, though. All of the materials in the world are either natural resources or they're products created by actual labor, so if everyone was willing to do labor all we'd need to figure out is how to use the natural resources.... which God gave to all of us on this planet.So, you figure it out. What does any government need to do to provide for the needs of other people?Egypt didn't need to take away the rights of others to use the land they had. The people in that government just needed to find the best way to help the other people in that country, just as any government needs to find the best way to take care of its people. 1
blackstrap Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 Not being familiar with the govt of Egypt during this time period ,I can only guess where the govt got the surplus wheat from to begin with. Taxes??? If so,then they took the wheat from the people as tax and sold it back to them for the land. Again,nice trick. Reminds me of current govt procedures.
Calm Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 Not being familiar with the govt of Egypt during this time period ,I can only guess where the govt got the surplus wheat from to begin with. Taxes??? If so,then they took the wheat from the people as tax and sold it back to them for the land. Again,nice trick. Reminds me of current govt procedures.Good chance they got it from government owned land.
Nathair/|\ Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 Good chance they got it from government owned land.If they had a true feudal system, it came from Pharaoh's personal land.
Calm Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 If they had a true feudal system, it came from Pharaoh's personal land.I am pretty sure I read somewhere that is exactly the source, but this was eons ago so no reference.
bcuzbcuz Posted November 14, 2012 Author Posted November 14, 2012 I have learnt from several personal experiences the past few years that I can literally give away all the food I have for myself, and I will be fine. We never have to regret keeping our covenants. God is a keeper of His promises.Truly admirable. I wish more were like you. I can remember a few instances where people shared when they had little or next to nothing themselves. In each of the cases they were poor people, extremely poor, and living in poor countries or in areas of poverty. It happened three times while I was in Cuba, a couple of times in Chile, and many times while living on First Nation reserves. Each time it was people who barely had anything but they were willing to share what they had.
thesometimesaint Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 (edited) I think my line of thinking goes pretty much along side yours. But I do have a question. If the conclusions talked about here on this OP are that people should share of their bounty in the times of stress, why is such thinking not prevalent before the big crunch comes? The world, to not talk about the US, has millions of starving, maybe even billions of people without proper food clothing or shelter. Certainly medicines are lacking throughout all the poor countries. I worked for more than 10 years on Native reserves and with native peoples not on reserves and I know that poverty, poor dental care, poor medical care, poor education and extremely poor infrastructure is prevalent as though the reserves were third nation countries.Where is the sharing in these times of relative wealth?I certainly can't speak for everyone. However my wife and I do give substantially to various charities including the Church. We support our extended family members including turning down monies owed. I'm not saying this to brag. I have nothing to brag about. I am well blessed by the Lord. If each us were to take care of ourselves and one other person this old world would be a much better place.Sorry about the late edit. My keyboard died so I had to replace it with a spare. Edited November 14, 2012 by thesometimesaint
bcuzbcuz Posted November 14, 2012 Author Posted November 14, 2012 Each I certainly can't speak for everyone. However my wife and do give substantially to various charities including the Church. We support our extended family membersincluding turning down monies owed. I'm not saying this to brag. I have nothing to brag about. I am well blessed by the Lord. If each us wer eous+Each of us have our own realities. I appreciate your sharing of both your input to this debate and the sharing your family does. I don't consider it bragging. Boastfulness is, by definition, when one makes public something that will glorify the boaster. I don't think bragging or boastfulness can be done anonymously.I just this evening wrote a long letter to one of my sons about how I think that the greed of the IMF and the banking cartels are eroding social programs in Europe. If they practiced loan forgiveness Europe would be a better place.
Ahab Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 ...If they practiced loan forgiveness Europe would be a better place.... reminds me of what our Lord said in his prayer to show us all how to pray... forgive us our debts as we forgive others. 1
thesometimesaint Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 Don't get me started on the banksters.
Ahab Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 Don't get me started on the banksters. So, what do you think of our government bailng them out? Isn't that basically like forgiving as we should forgive others?
thesometimesaint Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 So, what do you think of our government bailng them out? Isn't that basically like forgiving as we should forgive others?Yes we should forgive. If not for their sakes, but for our own. That being said part of the repentance process demands that we recompense as far as possible those whom we have offended. I haven't seen that. Instead I see them pocketing the money, fleecing more people, and expecting us to bail them out over and over again when things crash over and over again.I'm a bit emotionally conflicted about the government bailing them out, especially after the machinations(Credit Default Swaps come on REALLY, betting against your own customers come on REALLY)) they pulled off to the near collapse of our economy came out. It needed to be done to prevent further hurt to our economy, but ONLY on a one time basis. With serious prison time for the managers of those banks. Where are the "Perp Walks"? TOO BIG to fail is just TOO BIG period.
bcuzbcuz Posted November 14, 2012 Author Posted November 14, 2012 So, what do you think of our government bailng them out? Isn't that basically like forgiving as we should forgive others?No, bail out and forgiving aren't even spelled the same. Sorry, couldn't resist. I don't see any forgiving by the banks. In Spain it took a desperate women throwing herself from her fourth floor balcony before the banks and politicians decided that 'maybe' their policies were not proper.
bcuzbcuz Posted November 14, 2012 Author Posted November 14, 2012 Don't get me started on the banksters. Sorry, it's a subject that often makes me mad enough to spit.
bcuzbcuz Posted November 14, 2012 Author Posted November 14, 2012 ... reminds me of what our Lord said in his prayer to show us all how to pray... forgive us our debts as we forgive others.Good point
Ahab Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 I don't see any forgiving by the banks. In Spain it took a desperate women throwing herself from her fourth floor balcony before the banks and politicians decided that 'maybe' their policies were not proper.Yes they are slow to learn, but does what they do and what we do need to be in correlation?We can be good even if they aren't, right?I think most of us who are upset at the banks are upset because they're getting something that we're not getting, which isn't fair, and more than that, it isn't right.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 I'm a bit emotionally conflicted about the government bailing them out, especially after the machinations(Credit Default Swaps come on REALLY, betting against your own customers come on REALLY)) they pulled off to the near collapse of our economy came out. It needed to be done to prevent further hurt to our economy, but ONLY on a one time basis. With serious prison time for the managers of those banks. Where are the "Perp Walks"? TOO BIG to fail is just TOO BIG period.This is funny. You as a liberal should be all against it. I mean come on the rich don't need our help right? I think the only reason you are fine with it is because Obama did it and he is your man. Look the real issue is all it did was prolong the problem and the issue is still there and it just put the consequences off a few years down the road. They are not going to go a way and a day of reckoning is coming. I was against them because the government should not be doing things like this period. It has never worked and it wont work this time. Stop listening to MoveOn.org and MSNBC. Even PBS is biased towards the left. Use common sense. You know this is not sustainable and the issue is not solved. There needs to be a reset and there will be pain. You cannot buy your way out of bad decisions. And too many Americans bought that lie.
Nemesis Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 This thread is getting political. Knock it off or it'll be shut down.Nemesis
thesometimesaint Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Delete Edited November 15, 2012 by thesometimesaint
bcuzbcuz Posted November 15, 2012 Author Posted November 15, 2012 Do any of the members here on the board still maintain an underground shelter?
Tacenda Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Do any of the members here on the board still maintain an underground shelter?My in-laws are big on food storage, even to the point that back in the 70's they dug a huge hole and stored like a semi tank full of petroleum and put down in it. But no underground shelter that I know of.Edit: It was coal not petroleum, I got my facts wrong and found out as I discussed it with my hubby. I guess it was people on his mission that lived on farms and would bury fuel. Edited November 16, 2012 by Tacenda
Calm Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 stored like a semi tank full of petroleum Did they have a farm?
Tacenda Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 Did they have a farm?Somewhat, they had enough acreage to raise a couple head of beef and they use to raise pigs etc. So still somewhat suburban.
Calm Posted November 16, 2012 Posted November 16, 2012 Somewhat, they had enough acreage to raise a couple head of beef and they use to raise pigs etc. So still somewhat suburban.As someone who remembers the long lines at gas stations and the number of stations actually closed with no gas, that wasn't actually a bad idea for the time, especially for anyone who required it for their work.
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