George Albert Smith And Mental Illness

[Lamanite]

I'm sure others have brought this up but today was the first I've heard about President Smith having a mental and physical "breakdown" from 1909-12. I'm posting this article by Mary Jane Woodger for those who might find comfort in his story.

A talking point might be the either/or mentality when it comes to spiritual versus medicinal treatments for mental illness. Or perhaps the stigma attached to mental illness within the church and whether it's right to limit what callings people with mental illness can receive. Finally, we could discuss how President Smiths illness may have shaped his personal ministry. (I think he's extremely dogmatic with a tendency towards black or white thinking)

“Cheat the Asylum of a Victim:” George Albert Smith’s 1909-12 Breakdown” pg. 120

Big UP!

Lamanite

Edited October 13, 2012 by Lamanite

[Freedom]

I wasn't aware there were limits on callings, nor was I aware there was a stigma in the church. From personal experience, I have found the church culture to be more supportive and understanding than any other organization I deal with.

[Bernard Gui]

Deleted

Edited October 13, 2012 by Bernard Gui

[Storm Rider]

How can one allege the Church has any restrictions when we have had prophets and apostles that have dealt with and are dealing with depression and other emotional challenges? It is not logical; you can be the prophet of the Church, but you can't teach Sunday School? Do you see the disconnect in your allegation?

[DH]

I was not aware of President Smith's "breakdown" before now. Very interesting.

From both personal observation and a family member who is active in the mental health community in Utah, I can say there is definitely a lack of understanding and stigma about mental illness in the Church. That is not to say that all Mormons are part of the problem, but enough that it's something we need to work on.

Alexander B. Morrison wrote a nice book on the subject of mental illness, Valley of Sorrow: A Layman's Guide to Understanding Mental Illness for Latter-Day Saints.

Edited October 13, 2012 by DH

[thesometimesaint]

There always has been a stigma around mental health issue, and not just for Church members. Significantly that stigma is slowly going away with better education about and availability of services.

[Lamanite]

Missionaries are limited in capacity or rejected outright because of mental illness. The diagnosis is subjective so some boys feel they were dealt with unfairly.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[Duncan]

How can one allege the Church has any restrictions when we have had prophets and apostles that have dealt with and are dealing with depression and other emotional challenges? It is not logical; you can be the prophet of the Church, but you can't teach Sunday School? Do you see the disconnect in your allegation?

it would come from leaders who don't know much if anything about Pres. Smith or any other leaders who have had struggles with a variety of issues. Some people close them off to inspiration and go with their own understanding

[volgadon]

Missionaries are limited in capacity or rejected outright because of mental illness. The diagnosis is subjective so some boys feel they were dealt with unfairly.

Big UP!

Lamanite

Let's be realistic here. Do you honestly think that sending people with mental illness to places where they are practically on their own, in a framework which provides little accommodation, in an extremely frustrating and often depressing situation, paired up with 19 year old kids who likely have no training or experience delaing with various forms of mental illness is practical, or even desirable?

When I was district leader, one of the elders suffered from pretty serious mental disorders, which made him unpredictable, to say the least. He was constantly throwing abusive tantrums, running away at night, and even turning violent towards his companion. Not fun, not good for the mission and his companions, but least of all for himself.

[Lamanite]

Let's be realistic here. Do you honestly think that sending people with mental illness to places where they are practically on their own, in a framework which provides little accommodation, in an extremely frustrating and often depressing situation, paired up with 19 year old kids who likely have no training or experience delaing with various forms of mental illness is practical, or even desirable?

When I was district leader, one of the elders suffered from pretty serious mental disorders, which made him unpredictable, to say the least. He was constantly throwing abusive tantrums, running away at night, and even turning violent towards his companion. Not fun, not good for the mission and his companions, but least of all for himself.

Ideally, God would reveal his divine will to his servants through revelation and each situation of mental illness would be handled perfectly every time. Realistically things get screwed up. And those screw ups are sometimes caused by cultural and personal bias' towards mental illness.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[Tacenda]

I heard about this recently. I've not read the link yet, but heard that during a conference talk Pres. Smith had a nervous breakdown and then had to spend some time in a mental institution. And read that he has nerve issues. I've been diagnosed with some nerve issues myself. I'm glad he was able to get through the illness and eventually become a great Prophet. But wonder why the church felt the need to not bring it out in the latest manual. It would only help others that are going through some form of mental illness. Back in Pres. Smith's day they didn't have the knowledge about his condition. In this day and age there is medication therefore I highly doubt he would have been put in an institution.

[juliann]

I'm sure others have brought this up but today was the first I've heard about President Smith having a mental and physical "breakdown" from 1909-12. I'm posting this article by Mary Jane Woodger for those who might find comfort in his story.

A talking point might be the either/or mentality when it comes to spiritual versus medicinal treatments for mental illness. Or perhaps the stigma attached to mental illness within the church and whether it's right to limit what callings people with mental illness can receive. Finally, we could discuss how President Smiths illness may have shaped his personal ministry. (I think he's extremely dogmatic with a tendency towards black or white thinking)

“Cheat the Asylum of a Victim:” George Albert Smith’s 1909-12 Breakdown” pg. 120

Big UP!

Lamanite

Yet, the conclusion of the article itself was...

First and foremost, for George Albert the turning point in his

ability to deal with his particular limitations came from accepting in

submissive prayer whatever outcome resulted. Second, although his

personality seemed overanxious and even guilt-ridden, leading to debilitating

depression, after 1911 those tendencies never again controlled

his life. Third, although he resigned himself to death, if that

was God’s will, he concluded from the fact that his life was prolonged

that it had a purpose. This attitude sustained himduring repeated episodes

of weakness. And fourth, he learned to seek respites from the

stresses of his duties. By occasionally “dumping his responsibility,”

George Albert Smith had “cheated the asylum of a victim,” and continued

to make his contributions, including service as president of

the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Despite his lack of

physical health, he developed traits that made him, in many ways, a

model for emotional and spiritual health.

He also had lupus, mulitple episodes of pneumonia and much more. The author is making an educated guess that he had clinical depression. How he overcame that, of all things, should be the greatest lesson we walk away with. Even one of those events, given the lack of medical remedies, would be unimaginable for us today. I am kind of speechless that your only take from this is that he was a "black and white thinker"! Did you not read the section about his wife and the necessity of applying the cultural demands on female behavior before judging her as "clinging"?

I read this article some time ago. I previously knew next to nothing about this President. I now think he is one of the most remarkable.

[DavidB]

Doesn't the BOM teach that everything is black and white?

[Lamanite]

How he overcame that, of all things, should be the greatest lesson we walk away with.

I agree. There is much to admired in how Pres. Smith coped with his trials. My intent in posting this link was to draw attention to the fact that Pres. Smith dealt with what in my opinion was a mental illness and breakdown. I do think his ministry is fraught with black and white thinking and it made me wondered how his struggles influenced his ministry. Just a few possible talking points. That's all. I didn't think many would be interested in my devotional and faithful reactions to the article.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[Duncan]

I heard about this recently. I've not read the link yet, but heard that during a conference talk Pres. Smith had a nervous breakdown and then had to spend some time in a mental institution. And read that he has nerve issues. I've been diagnosed with some nerve issues myself. I'm glad he was able to get through the illness and eventually become a great Prophet. But wonder why the church felt the need to not bring it out in the latest manual. It would only help others that are going through some form of mental illness. Back in Pres. Smith's day they didn't have the knowledge about his condition. In this day and age there is medication therefore I highly doubt he would have been put in an institution.

well, it's the teachings of Pres. Smith and not every thing about his life, besides it would be what his teachings that have relevancy today. And IIRC in the teachings book they did put in a 1912 GC address quotation that Woodger used in her article about his condition

[Freedom]

I recall reading an article about another prophet who suffered from depression, does anybody recall if this is the case?

[Duncan]

I recall reading an article about another prophet who suffered from depression, does anybody recall if this is the case?

Harold B. Lee, although it's a reference here and there and not a full on article. Although if you have an article, care to share?!!

[Freedom]

Harold B. Lee, although it's a reference here and there and not a full on article. Although if you have an article, care to share?!!

Thanks, I did a google search and found a few references but nothing that goes into any length about his condition.

[Duncan]

Thanks, I did a google search and found a few references but nothing that goes into any length about his condition.

same, a few things here and there. His grandson has a blog, goatesnotes, very interesting tidbits of information!

[sdc999]

When I was district leader, one of the elders suffered from pretty serious mental disorders, which made him unpredictable, to say the least. He was constantly throwing abusive tantrums, running away at night, and even turning violent towards his companion. Not fun, not good for the mission and his companions, but least of all for himself.

So, my question would be, where was the Mission President in this matter? Why was this elder allowed to remain, or was he? If things were indeed as bad as you make them out to be, and I have no reason to believe they weren't, it seems that the mission president, if he was aware, was irresponible at best - maybe more concerned with appearance of a smoothly run mission than with the health of an individual.

[Calm]

maybe more concerned with appearance of a smoothly run mission than with the health of an individual.

Depending on the education level in this area, many people think 'toughing it out' is helpful for mental disorders, that one learns to cope and deal with it through being forced to by experience so he may not have been concerned about appearances even if he was wrong. It is also possible that there wasn't a good environment to send the missionary home to at that time...another possible consideration. I can think of many reasons that go into whether or not it is best for an individual to go home even if there is only one real reason for the rest of the mission to consider it (how does he affect the work?).

[Tacenda]

So, my question would be, where was the Mission President in this matter? Why was this elder allowed to remain, or was he? If things were indeed as bad as you make them out to be, and I have no reason to believe they weren't, it seems that the mission president, if he was aware, was irresponible at best - maybe more concerned with appearance of a smoothly run mission than with the health of an individual.

My son had to endure an abusive companion who was twice his size. After my son was hit by this guy, who was tongan, my son is maybe 5'7 and thin, he had to leave the apt. alone. He finally told the mission pres. but it took two weeks before he was given a new companion. Of course I didn't learn of it until after his mission! Edited October 14, 2012 by Tacenda

[Bernard Gui]

Let's be realistic here. Do you honestly think that sending people with mental illness to places where they are practically on their own, in a framework which provides little accommodation, in an extremely frustrating and often depressing situation, paired up with 19 year old kids who likely have no training or experience delaing with various forms of mental illness is practical, or even desirable?

When I was district leader, one of the elders suffered from pretty serious mental disorders, which made him unpredictable, to say the least. He was constantly throwing abusive tantrums, running away at night, and even turning violent towards his companion. Not fun, not good for the mission and his companions, but least of all for himself.

Ditto experience for me. Our elder ended up going home for his own safety and his companions' safety.

He was not disgraced...he was ill and needed help.

[Bernard Gui]

Ideally, God would reveal his divine will to his servants through revelation and each situation of mental illness would be handled perfectly every time. Realistically things get screwed up. And those screw ups are sometimes caused by cultural and personal bias' towards mental illness.

Ideally, the leaders who called and assigned my friend who was shot by muggers on his mission would have had the inspiration not to send him there at that time. Or not. Life happens.

[Freedom]

People who do not have a mental illness or learning disability will never understand those who do. We always look at the world through our own tinted glasses. People with mental illness, I find, tend to view others with odd behaviors as being mentally ill because it is how they perceive the world. We all have our own hammer, and everything around us appears to be a nail. If a mission president has no experience with such disabilities, he will not register that the behavior is anything other than immaturity or bad manners. I can peg certain disabilities quite quickly and being able to spot them helps me to understand them. Unfortunately, I can only identify and have natural empathy for those with whom I can relate due to may own personal experience.