In Retrospect, Was The Raising Of The Bar A Good Thing?

[Scott Lloyd]

Just looking at the graphic on the front page of today's Deseret News.

The number of missionaries began to slide from a high of 61,638 in 2002. It bottomed out at 51,067 in 2004, and remained fairly flat until 2010, when it began to climb to the present level of 58,000-plus.

Presumably, the drop-off was attributable to the now-famous "raising of the bar," and the number of missionaries is now climbing back up to pre-2002 levels with, one would expect, generally better-prepared missionaries.

With the expected increase in numbers due to the just-announced changes in the age-eligibility, we will presumably have an even larger and better-prepared missionary force than before.

So can it now be said that the raising of the bar was, in the long-term, a positive thing?

[KevinG]

The Mission Presidents I have spoken with thought it was a great thing. It would be neat to superimpose a chart of convert and convert retention rates over the missionary numbers. (Yet I'm too lazy to do it).

[Duncan]

I heard Elder Earl C. Tingey in 2003 say that they were anticipating the drop in missionaries and then it would climb back up. Collectively but not invidually speaking it is a good thing and I am glad they brought in Preach my gospel. I noticed the missionaries are better teachers. In this mission they have sent home about 6 elders since last december.

[Duncan]

The Mission Presidents I have spoken with thought it was a great thing. It would be neat to superimpose a chart of convert and convert retention rates over the missionary numbers. (Yet I'm too lazy to do it).

I too would love to see that but it sounds like effort

[RobertAC]

What sort of training does a missionary have to undergo before going out into the field? Is it the same for men and women?

[Scott Lloyd]

What sort of training does a missionary have to undergo before going out into the field? Is it the same for men and women?

Two months in a Missionary Training Center, either at the main one in Provo, Utah, or at one of a number of other locations in different parts of the world. Both men and women undergo the same training at these centers.

As Duncan mentioned, there is a standard missionary guide called Preach My Gospel from which all missionaries, male and female, old and young, are trained. You can view a PDF copy at this link.

[volgadon]

Two months in a Missionary Training Center, either at the main one in Provo, Utah, or at one of a number of other locations in different parts of the world. Both men and women undergo the same training at these centers.

As Duncan mentioned, there is a standard missionary guide called Preach My Gospel from which all missionaries, male and female, old and young, are trained. You can view a PDF copy at this link.

I was in the MTC for three! Most groups, though, vary from a month to two.

[KevinG]

Two months in a Missionary Training Center, either at the main one in Provo, Utah, or at one of a number of other locations in different parts of the world. Both men and women undergo the same training at these centers.

As Duncan mentioned, there is a standard missionary guide called Preach My Gospel from which all missionaries, male and female, old and young, are trained. You can view a PDF copy at this link.

I would add a youth living the gospel actively and adhering to its behavioral standards. That is no small feat or easy training program.

[RobertAC]

Two months in a Missionary Training Center, either at the main one in Provo, Utah, or at one of a number of other locations in different parts of the world. Both men and women undergo the same training at these centers.

As Duncan mentioned, there is a standard missionary guide called Preach My Gospel from which all missionaries, male and female, old and young, are trained. You can view a PDF copy at this link.

Thanks!

[Avatar4321]

Yes.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

With the assumed increase in missionaries, I believe they should have a more concerted effort towards reactivation using the more seasoned missionaries (say, those in their last 3-4 months).

[KevinG]

With the assumed increase in missionaries, I believe they should have a more concerted effort towards reactivation using the more seasoned missionaries (say, those in their last 3-4 months).

Or those who have been home for 3 months to 30 years.

[rpn]

The training they now get is (a) missionary prep classes at home; (b) mtc about a month for english speakers, more for languages; and pretty brand new © 12 week immersion in their missionary language country (I don't know if this is in a native speaking MTC, or in the mission itself. Then, of course they are with a trainer companion.

At the press conference they said they were cutting the mtc, 1/3 time.

[MorningStar]

It's absolutely a good thing! I knew too many guys who were treating it like a vacation, got into a lot of trouble, and hurt testimonies in the longrun.

[cinepro]

It's absolutely a good thing! I knew too many guys who were treating it like a vacation, got into a lot of trouble, and hurt testimonies in the longrun.

I agree. I don't think there's any doubt that "raising the bar" was a good thing. The only negative I've heard would be those isolated instances where someone wasn't able to serve because of physical or social issues to the dismay of the family.

But having served with Elders who had such issues, I can attest that the policy is a wise one.

[MorningStar]

We had some legendary missionaries.

One of them claimed to be an ex-gang member and said his mom was the lady who wrote "A Perfect Brightness of Hope". He kept reading this poem he wrote about this miraculous moment he had in the wilderness at one of those camps he was sent to for troubled teens. A tree caught fire and he ran a mile away, back and forth with a little cup of water. He prayed and was able to put the fire out. Considering how full of crap he was overall, I believed this to be a lie, but people lapped it up while a few of us were going, "Seriously? You like this guy?" One of his companions finally told him to shut-up during the umpteenth time he read his poem. The focus was always on him - not on the Lord. Let's see ...... Oh yes. He got a sister missionary pregnant, he got one mission shut down, went out partying, got in a fight with his companion, got engaged to one woman while having an affair with her married sister, and he would also show up places without his companion. After his mission, he was caught breaking into the home of a family who had been good friends to him.

I had my own problems with another missionary who acted stalkerish and made passes at me. Not a fun situation.

Another missionary asked if I would like to cuddle up with him and take a nap. I thought maybe he was joking, but my husband served in that mission and says yes indeed, he took naps with girls.

One guy kept trying to hang himself and they didn't send him home because his parents up and moved and they didn't know where to send him to.

Another guy had OCD so bad, his companions had to watch him shower and tell him when he was clean enough. You had to just say, "That's clean." If you said one thing was clean and another thing was "really clean", he would go back to wash whatever was described as "clean". It is sad so many guys can't go for various reasons, but it was hard to get anything done with the state he was in.

We had a lot of really great elders, but a few of them caused major problems.

[Duncan]

We had some legendary missionaries.

One of them claimed to be an ex-gang member and said his mom was the lady who wrote "A Perfect Brightness of Hope". He kept reading this poem he wrote about this miraculous moment he had in the wilderness at one of those camps he was sent to for troubled teens. A tree caught fire and he ran a mile away, back and forth with a little cup of water. He prayed and was able to put the fire out. Considering how full of crap he was overall, I believed this to be a lie, but people lapped it up while a few of us were going, "Seriously? You like this guy?" One of his companions finally told him to shut-up during the umpteenth time he read his poem. The focus was always on him - not on the Lord. Let's see ...... Oh yes. He got a sister missionary pregnant, he got one mission shut down, went out partying, got in a fight with his companion, got engaged to one woman while having an affair with her married sister, and he would also show up places without his companion. After his mission, he was caught breaking into the home of a family who had been good friends to him.

I had my own problems with another missionary who acted stalkerish and made passes at me. Not a fun situation.

Another missionary asked if I would like to cuddle up with him and take a nap. I thought maybe he was joking, but my husband served in that mission and says yes indeed, he took naps with girls.

One guy kept trying to hang himself and they didn't send him home because his parents up and moved and they didn't know where to send him to.

Another guy had OCD so bad, his companions had to watch him shower and tell him when he was clean enough. You had to just say, "That's clean." If you said one thing was clean and another thing was "really clean", he would go back to wash whatever was described as "clean". It is sad so many guys can't go for various reasons, but it was hard to get anything done with the state he was in.

We had a lot of really great elders, but a few of them caused major problems.

um, what?!

[MorningStar]

Seriously. I think the first guy I mentioned was just a major con artist who got his parents to pay for his two year vacation. I can find no record of his mom being who he said she is. I think he just got a major high off of getting people to believe his stories. One time I was on a walk with a friend and he drove by in a car with two other missionaries. We mentioned that we were heading to a member's house and surprise - he showed up there! They just dropped him off and the mom was acting all delighted and I was thinking, "HELLO?! WHERE IS HIS COMPANION?" She asked him to tell his blasted, bull crap story again, and then she asked him to pray with us before he left. People treated him like a celebrity. Ridiculous. She said, "In our family, we pray in a circle and hold hands."

So we got into a circle and he changed places so he could sit by me. The mom giggled. I did not. In the middle of the prayer, he starts caressing and squeezing my hand. I dug my nails into his hand as a message I didn't appreciate him. I was about 16 or 17. He tried to get a friend to make out with him and she said no.

[Duncan]

Seriously. I think the first guy I mentioned was just a major con artist who got his parents to pay for his two year vacation. I can find no record of his mom being who he said she is. I think he just got a major high off of getting people to believe his stories. One time I was on a walk with a friend and he drove by in a car with two other missionaries. We mentioned that we were heading to a member's house and surprise - he showed up there! They just dropped him off and the mom was acting all delighted and I was thinking, "HELLO?! WHERE IS HIS COMPANION?" She asked him to tell his blasted, bull crap story again, and then she asked him to pray with us before he left. People treated him like a celebrity. Ridiculous. She said, "In our family, we pray in a circle and hold hands."

So we got into a circle and he changed places so he could sit by me. The mom giggled. I did not. In the middle of the prayer, he starts caressing and squeezing my hand. I dug my nails into his hand as a message I didn't appreciate him. I was about 16 or 17. He tried to get a friend to make out with him and she said no.

seetus lupeetus!

[MorningStar]

I talked to missionaries a decade later who still heard about that guy. Legendary.

[canard78]

We had some legendary missionaries.

One of them claimed to be an ex-gang member and said his mom was the lady who wrote "A Perfect Brightness of Hope". He kept reading this poem he wrote about this miraculous moment he had in the wilderness at one of those camps he was sent to for troubled teens. A tree caught fire and he ran a mile away, back and forth with a little cup of water. He prayed and was able to put the fire out. Considering how full of crap he was overall, I believed this to be a lie, but people lapped it up while a few of us were going, "Seriously? You like this guy?" One of his companions finally told him to shut-up during the umpteenth time he read his poem. The focus was always on him - not on the Lord. Let's see ...... Oh yes. He got a sister missionary pregnant, he got one mission shut down, went out partying, got in a fight with his companion, got engaged to one woman while having an affair with her married sister, and he would also show up places without his companion. After his mission, he was caught breaking into the home of a family who had been good friends to him.

I had my own problems with another missionary who acted stalkerish and made passes at me. Not a fun situation.

Another missionary asked if I would like to cuddle up with him and take a nap. I thought maybe he was joking, but my husband served in that mission and says yes indeed, he took naps with girls.

One guy kept trying to hang himself and they didn't send him home because his parents up and moved and they didn't know where to send him to.

Another guy had OCD so bad, his companions had to watch him shower and tell him when he was clean enough. You had to just say, "That's clean." If you said one thing was clean and another thing was "really clean", he would go back to wash whatever was described as "clean". It is sad so many guys can't go for various reasons, but it was hard to get anything done with the state he was in.

We had a lot of really great elders, but a few of them caused major problems.

And this was just at the MTC...

To answer the question. Yes, a good thing. There were plenty coasting in my (late 90s) mission. My training area was a shock. I grew up going on splits with missionaries I believed floated 2 feet above the ground. I arrived to find it was more like 2 feet under.

[Cobalt-70]

So can it now be said that the raising of the bar was, in the long-term, a positive thing?

It depends on what you mean by "positive thing." Raising the bar seems to have resulted in a decrease in the number of new converts, so if that's a positive thing, then yes. I plotted the number of full-time missionaries and superimposed the number of new converts, and there appears to be a fairly strong correlation between the two. The correlation coefficient from 1999-2011 between the number of missionaries and the number of new converts is 0.52. Unfortunately, I don't know a good way to upload these graphs to share them.

I also looked at converts/missionary during the period from 1999 to 2012, and this number stayed about the same at around 5. In fact, this ratio declined slightly in the early 2000s from what it had been in the 1990s. You would expect that "better prepared" missionaries would baptize more converts. But that does not appear to be borne out by the data.

It seems as if all that is really important, statistics-wise, is the number of missionary bodies out in the field. I don't think there is any evidence that on the large scales, a group of "better prepared" missionaries is on average more effective than a group that contains less serious missionaries. Maybe the less serious missionaries waste less time tracting or street contacting, and spend more time goofing off with members, where they nevertheless are more effective.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Cobalt-70

[rongo]

The bar was never "raised" ---- it was reset to where it had always (and should always have) been. The drop in missionaries serving wasn't due to more stringent standards on who could serve, though. Stake presidents are in a bind, because they are pressured by area authorities and seventies if there are too few missionaries leaving their stakes. "The days of the repent and go missionaries are gone" sounds nice, but it is alive and well. Lots of missionaries still "repent and go."

I have heard several apostles and seventies over the last several years attribute the drop in missionaries to steeply falling family sizes over decades, not "raising the bar." That is, active Mormon family sizes are much smaller than they were 20 or 30 years ago, which equates to fewer available missionaries (and, only 1/3 of the potential ones go). Elder Perry told local bishops and stake presidencies in the Phoenix area that the U.S. average is 2.3 children per family, and where at least one parent had served a mission, it goes up to 3.4 (still down from past years), but where neither parent served a mission, it falls to 1.7 (far below the national average).

[rongo]

I also looked at converts/missionary during the period from 1999 to 2012, and this number stayed about the same at around 5. In fact, this ratio declined slightly in the early 2000s from what it had been in the 1990s. You would expect that "better prepared" missionaries would baptize more converts. But that does not appear to be borne out by the data.

In 1996, the German Hamburg mission went from 150 to just under 100 missionaries. Lessons taught and baptisms remained the same with ca. 100 as it had been for years with 150. We didnt' experience any drop-off with 1/3 fewer missionaries. I think truly raising the bar and working with fewer but better missionaries would, at minimum, hold serve, and perhaps have better results (a la Gideon's 300 vs. the thousands he started with).

[BlueDreams]

It seems as if all that is really important, statistics-wise, is the number of missionary bodies out in the field. I don't think there is any evidence that on the large scales, a group of "better prepared" missionaries is on average more effective than a group that contains less serious missionaries. Maybe the less serious missionaries waste less time tracting or street contacting, and spend more time goofing off with members, where they nevertheless are more effective.

This also isn't taking into effect the overall change in not only raising the bard but PMG and a focus over retention. Most missions now have far more stringent qualifications for baptism. I was always astounded of hearing cases where a person got baptized within a week or two (or even a day). For us (in my mission) the fastest someone could get baptized was around a month to 6 weeks.

Overall the change, IMHO, was a good one.

With luv,

BD

Edited October 10, 2012 by BlueDreams