Woowho...Coffee Icecream Not Against The Wow

[Bernard Gui]

Coffee ruins ice cream.

And coffee breath...........

Yech.

[KevinG]

I learned a great deal about applying the Word of Wisdom a few years back. I never felt it was right for me to drink caffeinated beverages but my wife had not trouble with it. I started picking up the habit due to long work hours and a fondness of Dr Pepper. I rationalized that my wife didn't think it was an issue.

Turns out I have a heart valve issue my wife doesn't. I should have listened to the prompting of the Spirit that told me to avoid it and not depend on other people's interpretation or understanding.

Now the Word of Wisdom includes caffeine for me.

On the other hand its not my business to interpret it that way for others over the pulpit.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Evil? That is a bit of an overreaction to a spoonful of icky flavored ice cream.... and I'm LDS. There are people sitting in church every Sunday who don't follow the WOW to perfection and Satan is not among them.

I was told in my last interview by the bishopric and the SP that they would issue a recommend to some one that drank coffee, decaf that is. I didn't ask about regular coffee. But it doesn't matter as the SP said that coffee and tea were not specific in the WoW.

One interesting note is the my grandpa smoked and he had a temple recommend til the day he died. I was some what confused when I heard about this last year. He died in 81 btw.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Tacenda]

I was told in my last interview by the bishopric and the SP that they would issue a recommend to some one that drank coffee, decaf that is. I didn't ask about regular coffee. But it doesn't matter as the SP said that coffee and tea were not specific in the WoW.

One interesting note is the my grandpa smoked and he had a temple recommend til the day he died. I was some what confused when I heard about this last year. He died in 81 btw.

My dad was a coffee drinker for his back pain, I guessed it helped him. When I was married in the temple he was able to get his recommend renewed if he switched from regular coffee to decaf coffee. I was just glad he was able to attend!!

Edited August 21, 2012 by Tacenda

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

My dad was a coffee drinker for his back pain, I guessed it helped him. When I was married in the temple he was able to get his recommend renewed if he switched from regular coffee to decaf coffee. I was just glad he was able to attend!!

Interesting. It appears that there is some interpretation that could be had by the person doing the recommend interview.

It also appears that if one breaks the WoW you can still get a recommend. Is this church policy? No I don't think so.

When I was on my mission they were very strict about the WoW. You could not drink tea or coffee in any form and be baptized if you were an investigator. You had to stop it all completely.

[ERayR]

Interesting. It appears that there is some interpretation that could be had by the person doing the recommend interview.

It also appears that if one breaks the WoW you can still get a recommend. Is this church policy? No I don't think so.

When I was on my mission they were very strict about the WoW. You could not drink tea or coffee in any form and be baptized if you were an investigator. You had to stop it all completely.

Correct me if I err but I think the question is: Do you keep the word of wisdom. You answer yes or no. If you are able to justify your conduct, decaf, non-alcoholic, etc and answer yes then you are issued a temple recommend.

Edited August 21, 2012 by ERayR

[Calm]

I don't think any caffinated beverage is sold at the COB or at BYU, so I disagree.

The policy is less about keeping the WoW and more about keeping down the complaints from those who think the WoW actually includes caffeinated beverages.

The whole "appearance of evil" gets way overdone, imo. I remember years ago someone who worked in taking care of transportation for the Church up in SLC said they have to spend more money for cars because they were forced to buy cheaper cars that cost more in the long run due to costs of upkeep, etc. rather than buy great cars that cost very little in repairs because of complaints that the Church was being indulgent in buying such high end cars.

Much easier to gossip about how wrong the Church is doing things than finding out the real reason and so the Church to avoid contention among its members acts in accordance with the wishes/impressions of the weakest, no matter it seems how silly that can become (like airbrushing out tatooes).

Edited August 21, 2012 by calmoriah

[Storm Rider]

I think you are wrong in two ways.

First, I don't think that anything we do in this life does not follow with us after death. That is one of the things the Gospel teaches us and is the reason we need the Atonement of Jesus. Our thoughts, our words, our deeds all matter -- and how we treat the body also matter. Although the Word of Wisdom was not given by commandment, I still think the basic wisdom that the Lord gave -- that is that there is no commandment that is merely temporal -- would apply to the Word of Wisdom as much as to other mundane things.

Secondly, I think that it is presumptuous to say it would not affect anyone's salvation. Addictions are soul destroying. To declare that they do not have eternal consequences is to deny the obvious effects on those same words, thoughts and deeds alluded to earlier. Unhealthy addictions make it very hard to be contribute effectively as a Saint and are often unclean in and of themselves.

So for those two reasons, I think you are wrong.

We disagree again. You are making some very broad generalizations to achieve your objective. First, you assume that the Word of Wisdom is a spiritual law, which it is not and never has been. It is a promise with an attached blessing. It was given by revelation and I am not aware of a single general authority at the time that it was received or afterwards that obeyed it strictly, not one, not Joseph, not Brigham, no one. Second, you assume that drinking tea, coffee, or drinking alchohol immediately results in an adiction. Please provide a reference that supports such a conclusion. I have never heard of any evidence to support such. However, I know hundreds of people that drink coffee, tea, and alcohol that are not addicts and are good people.

LDS that make such assumptions cause damage to the Church because they use this type of judgment to appear more righteous than others. This is in the same path of the Pharisees and Sadducees. They shout their righteousness for obedience to laws that mean nothing, it is as significant as sounding brass.

You and I see the gospel of Jesus Christ very, very differently. The great thing is that it takes all kinds and somewhere in the middle may be the better way.

[ERayR]

The policy is less about keeping the WoW and more about keeping down the complaints from those who think the WoW actually includes caffeinated beverages.

An appeasement to the arc steadiers..

[Calm]

An appeasement to the arc steadiers..

Unfortunately yes. And I can understand why they don't want to waste their time trying to explain to those who aren't willing to hear the explanation (though there are probably more who would be simply curious and accept explanations, there would still be a small core who insist that their interpretation of the WoW is the absolute Word of God and all must obey or risk hellfire, etc. etc.)

They also don't want to be a stumbling block if they can help it. A worthy attitude and since unfortunately there is unlikely to be an opportunity to teach those open to the Spirit so that the stumbling block is removed through greater understanding, they have to remove it in another way.

Edited August 21, 2012 by calmoriah

[happy]

Strange double post.

Edited August 21, 2012 by happy

[CASteinman]

We disagree again.

Yes we do. As I said right at the outset. But in this case, you do not have the details of the disagreement correct.

You are making some very broad generalizations to achieve your objective.

Not sure that I had a very large objective here.

First, you assume that the Word of Wisdom is a spiritual law

Not exactly. You were not paying attention if you claim this.

I am not aware of a single general authority at the time that it was received or afterwards that obeyed it strictly, not one, not Joseph, not Brigham, no one.

Your lack of awareness on this is not a matter of evidence on anything substantial except your lack of awareness.

Second, you assume that drinking tea, coffee, or drinking alchohol immediately results in an adiction.

This is false. I made no such assumption.

I have never heard of any evidence to support such.

More silliness about how what you have not heard is evidence.

Here is the fact: A person who becomes addicted to alcohol (or heroin or tobacco) always had their first taste. Were they addicted after that first taste? Maybe. The belief that you are not addicted until you are physically dependent is false. Addiction is psychological (and there may be a predisposition to it). There are many many cases of people who never drank and then had one drink --- then two -- then more. And had more over the next few days.. and the next few weeks and then were addicted. This would not have happened had they not had that first drink and opened up the psychological door. The fact is, that psychologically, if they found that they needed the alcohol psychologically after that first drink (and they did) they were addicted from that first drink. Even without being physically dependent --- which is a related but not identical issue.

to appear more righteous than others.

Some LDS are more righteous than others.

You and I see the gospel of Jesus Christ very, very differently.

Maybe. There is no evidence of this.

Edited August 21, 2012 by CASteinman

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Correct me if I err but I think the question is: Do you keep the word of wisdom. You answer yes or no. If you are able to justify your conduct, decaf, non-alcoholic, etc and answer yes then you are issued a temple recommend.

That is what I thought too. And for the most part this is more than likely what is correct. I only have my limited anecdotal evidence.

[Tacenda]

Yes we do. As I said right at the outset. But in this case, you do not have the details of the disagreement correct.

Not sure that I had a very large objective here.

Not exactly. You were not paying attention if you claim this.

Your lack of awareness on this is not a matter of evidence on anything substantial except your lack of awareness.

This is false. I made no such assumption.

More silliness about how what you have not heard is evidence.

Here is the fact: A person who becomes addicted to alcohol (or heroin or tobacco) always had their first taste. Were they addicted after that first taste? Maybe. The belief that you are not addicted until you are physically dependent is false. Addiction is psychological (and there may be a predisposition to it). There are many many cases of people who never drank and then had one drink --- then two -- then more. And had more over the next few days.. and the next few weeks and then were addicted. This would not have happened had they not had that first drink and opened up the psychological door. The fact is, that psychologically, if they found that they needed the alcohol psychologically after that first drink (and they did) they were addicted from that first drink. Even without being physically dependent --- which is a related but not identical issue.

Some LDS are more righteous than others.

Maybe. There is no evidence of this.

I have to admit I wish I never would have tasted coke/dr. pepper or any beverage with caffiene, it's an addiction for me and some of my kids make fun of me. It's terrible. I can't seem to make it through the day without it and sympathise/empathise well with those that are addicted to cigarettes and alcohol. But for me I'm also addicted to the nutri sweet that's in it and am aware of the side affects of that chemical but can't quit.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Tacenda

[Verum]

How do you get coffee ice cream from hot drinks?

Where do Mormon's get iced tee from hot drinks??

[juliann]

Where do Mormon's get iced tee from hot drinks??

They take the hot stuff and put ice in it.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Where do Mormon's get iced tee from hot drinks??

They don't

Were we get it from is looking back that when the revelation was given it was hot drinks = Tea and Coffee. There was no ice to make them cold. That is a modern thing. But the issue is Tea and Coffee regardless if it is hot or cold. It being hot is not what made it bad. It being Tea or Coffee is what made it bad.

However lately it seems, that tea and coffee are not a big deal, at least as far as my limited anecdotal evidence is concerned.

[Verum]

They take the hot stuff and put ice in it.

Right. Sounds a lot like coffee ice cream.

[juliann]

I think you are wrong in two ways.

First, I don't think that anything we do in this life does not follow with us after death. That is one of the things the Gospel teaches us and is the reason we need the Atonement of Jesus. Our thoughts, our words, our deeds all matter -- and how we treat the body also matter. Although the Word of Wisdom was not given by commandment, I still think the basic wisdom that the Lord gave -- that is that there is no commandment that is merely temporal -- would apply to the Word of Wisdom as much as to other mundane things.

Secondly, I think that it is presumptuous to say it would not affect anyone's salvation. Addictions are soul destroying. To declare that they do not have eternal consequences is to deny the obvious effects on those same words, thoughts and deeds alluded to earlier. Unhealthy addictions make it very hard to be contribute effectively as a Saint and are often unclean in and of themselves.

So for those two reasons, I think you are wrong.

Actually, you are completely denying the power of the atonement if you think every negative thing we do has eternal consequence.

[DH]

I have to admit I wish I never would have tasted coke/dr. pepper or any beverage with caffiene, it's an addiction for me and some of my kids make fun of me. It's terrible. I can't seem to make it through the day without it and sympathise/empathise well with those that are addicted to cigarettes and alcohol. But for me I'm also addicted to the nutri sweet that's in it and am aware of the side affects of that chemical but can't quit.

LDS Social Services has an addiction program you might want to look into.

[CASteinman]

I'm also addicted to the nutri sweet that's in it and am aware of the side affects of that chemical but can't quit.

I did not know that had such properties. I prefer the taste to sugar... but I guess I have to watch myself.

[CASteinman]

Actually, you are completely denying the power of the atonement if you think every negative thing we do has eternal consequence.

Absolutely false. You are minimizing the power and completely denying the eternal nature of the atonement if you think that every negative thing we do does not have eternal consequence.

[Craig Paxton]

Well all I can say is that if you haven't tried a Haagen-Dazs Coffee Almond Crunch Bar...U haven't lived...they are yummy...and apparently WoW friendly...

Edited August 21, 2012 by Craig Paxton

[CASteinman]

Well all I can say is that if you haven't tried a Haagen-Dazs Coffee Almond Crunch Bar...U haven't lived...they are yummy...and apparently WoW friendly...

I suspect you are trolling.

[Craig Paxton]

I suspect you are trolling.

Ummmm...Is that what its called when someone contributes to a thread that they started or am I just tempting you more than you can withstand?

Edited August 21, 2012 by Craig Paxton