Woowho...Coffee Icecream Not Against The Wow

[yootaw]

Not to mention embarrassing...which it was...but I told them that this was a story of creepingly importance to Utah...and to please for give me

I like your style. Imagining that phone call is really making me chuckle.

[ERayR]

Craig, it never was NOT okay. Having grown up in the church I can tell you that Jamoca Almond Fudge is a very popular ice cream flavor among members. I've never looked at other members and judged them as breaking the word of wisdom because they liked the flavor of coffee. Who cares, other than judgmental busybodies, if some members of the church choose to eat Coffee ice cream. It's not prohibited. Members of the church are asked to abstain from tea, coffee, alcohol and tobacco as a requirement for attending the temple. As a life long member, I follow these guidelines and have no qualms whatsoever about any LDS person eating coffee ice cream because it does not violate it, just a numerous food items which have small amounts of alcohol or coffee do not present a danger to members.

Some members are very strict in their interpretation of the WofW and will not eat coffee ice cream, but that is a personal choice. They should not use their own choices to judge other members. If any member has a question about their own interpretation, they can discuss it with their Bishop.

Christ said that we would be judged by the standard we used against others. If that is the case, we probably want to judge people less harshly.

No matter how good is ice cream in any form OK. It has sure wreaked havoc with my belt size.

[Verum]

Verum, if a person finds themselves eating 3 or 4 bowls of coffee ice cream to get them going in the morning, they have a problem. Otherwise, I think it falls in the category of drinking caffeinnated soda.

Drinking an occasional cup of coffee won't hurt you physically and MAYBE there might even be some slim health benefit (personally I don't believe the studies are accurate) but if you are an LDS member, drinking it hurts you spiritually because you are not being obedient to the standard set for temple worthiness and doing so makes you unworthy.

Therein lies the absurdity. Eating an occasional bowl of ice cream, which is essentially coffee, just frozen with likely the same portion of caffeine, does not hurt you spiritually and still obedient to the standard set for temple worthiness and therefore worthy.

Drinking an occasional cup of coffee - DOES hurts you spiritually because you are not being obedient to the standard set for temple worthiness and doing so makes you unworthy, as you say (unless I froze it and added sugary flavor, then I'd be okay).

And let's say I NEVER drink coffee BUT I have a diet that includes frequent consumption of the following:

Sugary(or even diet) soda per day - good, worthy -- even though it could eventually kill me.

Consume Artificial sweeteners - good, still worthy -- good, worthy

Trans fat - still good

all-you-can-eat meat buffet restaurants -- fine-and-dandy (in spite of WOW specific mention of eating meats sparingly..)

But If I DO drink coffee every now and then and DO NOT consume any of the items listed above, I am not temple worthy???

As I said, i think the absurdity is in the specificity of the WOW in general, as opposed to just living by a principle of good health free from addiction or substances that harm our bodies or prevent us from exercising good judgment.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Verum

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

My Ilk? You're too generous...

You are too easy Craig.

[CASteinman]

Ok I'm not going to play this game with you...

Uh huh. You directed me to call an imaginary person as a reference -- and you claim I am the one playing games.

This is another example of your trolling. And for the record... you have failed the CFR.

if you want to believe that Mitt didn't indulge in eating coffee laced with caffeine ice-cream...No amount of evidence to the contrary is going to convince you.

That is false.

..I provided a contact number and name...you claim that you had them on the phone...why didn't you just ask them?

I followed your instructions for the CFR. You told me Amanda served him the Coffee Ice cream and that I should ask for her as she was waiting for my call. I did exactly as you instructed. Amanda does not exist.

You have failed the CFR and in addition, you have been intentionally deceptive from every bit of information I have.

It is troll work.

Edited August 22, 2012 by CASteinman

[CASteinman]

Yes I embarranssingly was the first to call....absolutely crazy on my part that I even give a sh** about my reputation on this board

It has suffered as a result of your apparent deception -- or the deception of the ice cream shop employees -- you pick.

Edited August 22, 2012 by CASteinman

[KevinG]

As I said, i think the absurdity is in the specificity of the WOW in general, as opposed to just living by a principle of good health free from addiction or substances that harm our bodies or prevent us from exercising good judgment.

I don't get wrapped up in the specific instructions given in the 19th century. There are plenty of more recent dispatches and teachings by Prophets and Apostles that clarify the spirit of the law and help us apply it to ourselves today.

One of my favorite was an epistle from the First Presidency I saw in the rare book room of the University of Illinois. Around the turn of the last century they taught that justifying drug use like marijuana because it was not specifically notated in the Word of Wisdom was foolish.

I myself have gone from wondering if caffeinated drinks were proper for me under the word of Wisdom to realizing that the spirit of the dietary laws means different things for different people depending on their own health and situation. I now think indulging in too much sugar is as harmful as other substances and for me a part of the Word of Widsdom.

In interpreting these scriptures for our time we are wise to follow the counsel of President Benson who said: "When obedience ceases to be an irritant and becomes our quest, then God will endow us with power from on high." Ezra Taft Benson - Ensign, May 1998

[CASteinman]

I am also a bit creeped out that this would be an important enough issue for either if you to call the restaurant.

Since I actually do work in this area, I was not the least bit concerned with calling the shop. I have recently opened one similar shop and am opening two more.

As creepy as you may imagine it is --- it is no big deal to call and ask for an employee, though it is preferred that it not be a personal call.

However, more to the point, I issued a CFR and the response was for me to call and talk to Amanda as she was waiting for my call. I did as instructed. Amanda did not exist.

Do you really think it is creepy to call someone who was supposed to be waiting for my call? Really?

Edited August 22, 2012 by CASteinman

[ERayR]

I don't get wrapped up in the specific instructions given in the 19th century. There are plenty of more recent dispatches and teachings by Prophets and Apostles that clarify the spirit of the law and help us apply it to ourselves today.

One of my favorite was an epistle from the First Presidency I saw in the rare book room of the University of Illinois. Around the turn of the last century they taught that justifying drug use like marijuana because it was not specifically notated in the Word of Wisdom was foolish.

I myself have gone from wondering if caffeinated drinks were proper for me under the word of Wisdom to realizing that the spirit of the dietary laws means different things for different people depending on their own health and situation. I now think indulging in too much sugar is as harmful as other substances and for me a part of the Word of Widsdom.

In interpreting these scriptures for our time we are wise to follow the counsel of President Benson who said: "When obedience ceases to be an irritant and becomes our quest, then God will endow us with power from on high." Ezra Taft Benson - Ensign, May 1998

I have enough problems with my health. The WoW can only help and I don't just mean the letter of the law.

[KevinG]

CA don't hold your breath on a CFR.

Craig was hoping to get a reaction from the TBMs about Mitt's consumption of coffee ice cream. When he didn't get the desired response of hand wringing and condemnation of Mitt, he started complaining about the mythical Mormons looking over their members shoulders. When that failed to garner a reaction he broke down and started swearing and throwing a fit telling us how irreverent we all are.

You had it right with "trolling".

[Tacenda]

No matter how good is ice cream in any form OK. It has sure wreaked havoc with my belt size.

Which brings us to the question of overeating. I have relatives that go to the temple and afterwards eat at a buffet, oh boy if you want to say tea and coffee are bad you ought to see my in-laws take advantage of a buffet. So IMO overeating is right up there with caffeine, smoking & alcohol! Obesity is bad for you!

Edited August 22, 2012 by Tacenda

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

. I now think indulging in too much sugar is as harmful as other substances and for me a part of the Word of Widsdom.

I agree. I have a huge old fat gut because of it.

[Tacenda]

I agree. I have a huge old fat gut because of it.

If you're middle age I think it's quite common in men, so don't beat yourself up over it.

[CASteinman]

Which brings us to the question of overeating. I have relatives that go to the temple and afterwards eat at a buffet, oh boy if you want to say tea and coffee are bad you ought to see my in-laws take advantage of a buffet. So IMO overeating is right up there with caffeine, smoking & alcohol! Obesity is bad for you!

As a matter of fact, the Word of Wisdom is one of the best commandments we have because it is so much a test for us to actually exercise wisdom in the Spirit. Niggling over a few specific "dont's" is so messed up compared with the overall notion of the commandment to be wise in what we take into and use in our bodies. Even the "dont's" are subject to wisdom -- not subject to excuse but subject to wisdom.

This is really one of the best commandments we have because it allows us to start to exercise our Spirits in wise obedience that is fit for all and fit for each, under the Spirit of God.

I know that I am challenged by this command in its full implications and need to do much better. Nevertheless I am so grateful for the confidence that God has shown us in so many ways and the blessing and gift of this revelation.

Edited August 22, 2012 by CASteinman

[ERayR]

Which brings us to the question of overeating. I have relatives that go to the temple and afterwards eat at a buffet, oh boy if you want to say tea and coffee are bad you ought to see my in-laws take advantage of a buffet. So IMO overeating is right up there with caffeine, smoking & alcohol! Obesity is bad for you!

In the words of one of our hymns "Tis high to be a judge:" I know plenty of people who eat a lot and are not obese. I know others who eat very little and are obese. To judge ones gluttony by whether they are obese or not is not fair. Remember its OK to judge but one should be sure of their judgements because they will be measured by the same (type) if judgement that the rendered.

[CASteinman]

CA don't hold your breath on a CFR.

I am not. I consider this experience instructive in his methods.

[KevinG]

By obeying the word of wisdom and then applying its principles to myself in more general healthy eating I have become less fat and more healthy. A blessing for obedience for sure.

The Word of Wisdom is an excellent illustration of how we can apply the scriptures to ourselves and be blessed for it. The alternative is to justify ourselves and receive no blessing.

[Tacenda]

In the words of one of our hymns "Tis high to be a judge:" I know plenty of people who eat a lot and are not obese. I know others who eat very little and are obese. To judge ones gluttony by whether they are obese or not is not fair. Remember its OK to judge but one should be sure of their judgements because they will be measured by the same (type) if judgement that the rendered.

You know you are right. People don't understand that obese people don't always overeat. They have metabolism issues. So I'm glad you brought this up. Some not all of my relatives were gluttonous at the buffet, sorry but it's true but some are very frugal so they took advantage of the food while it was available.

Thanks for bringing this up. I wish more people understood that obese people don't always overeat and it's a medical or metabolic condition.

[ERayR]

You know you are right. People don't understand that obese people don't always overeat. They have metabolism issues. So I'm glad you brought this up. Some not all of my relatives were gluttonous at the buffet, sorry but it's true but some are very frugal so they took advantage of the food while it was available.

Thanks for bringing this up. I wish more people understood that obese people don't always overeat and it's a medical or metabolic condition.

Also physical limitations (spinal and joint degeneration) limiting physical activity can wreak terrible havoc with your body.

[CASteinman]

I wish more people understood that obese people don't always overeat and it's a medical or metabolic condition.

That's what I say....

Of course my real problem is that I am the perfect reflection of youthful manhood.. the only problem being according to my Doctor that I produce too much testosterone -- just too much of a man. Otherwise -- -- perfection on the hoof.

[ERayR]

My problem is not that I am overweight but that I am short. According to the height weight charts I should be 9ft 6in.

[Tacenda]

My problem is not that I am overweight but that I am short. According to the height weight charts I should be 9ft 6in.

[KevinG]

My problem is not that I am overweight but that I am short. According to the height weight charts I should be 9ft 6in.

I hear coffee flavored ice cream stunts your growth. Are you sure you shouldn't be taking to your Bishop?

[Craig Paxton]

Uh huh. You directed me to call an imaginary person as a reference -- and you claim I am the one playing games.

This is another example of your trolling. And for the record... you have failed the CFR.

That is false.

I followed your instructions for the CFR. You told me Amanda served him the Coffee Ice cream and that I should ask for her as she was waiting for my call. I did exactly as you instructed. Amanda does not exist.

You have failed the CFR and in addition, you have been intentionally deceptive from every bit of information I have.

It is troll work.

I said that I'm not going to play this game with you...I stand by the information that I posted...it is true..I couldn't care less as to whether or not you believe me. I confirmed it with an employee at Millie's who told me that Mitt both bought and consumed coffee ice-cream (something I regret doing in hindsight) to play your silly little CFR game...I'm done...I don't really give a sh** if you believe me or not...you mock me...you mock my efforts to meet your ridiculous CFR standards... and then when I provide your CFR you further mock me by questioning my integrety. Well frankly sir you can kiss my a**

The ONLY positive thing resulting from your little puerile CFR game was to confirm in the minds of the employees of Millie's...Just how freakingly bizarre Mormon's are...for being concerned over the flavor of ice-cream someone consumes ...and with that I say Well Done...I'm sure they're all laughing their a**'s off...

Edited August 22, 2012 by Craig Paxton

[Calm]

As I mentioned earlier, most coffee ice cream is essentially COFFEE, just frozen,

Which makes the picture of Mitt's ice cream rather strange since it is very light coloured and looks identical to vanilla instead of anything approaching coffee coloured.