Is There A Way To Tell If Someone Is Converted?

[Duncan]

Is there a way to tell if someone is converted? I know that it is easy to tell who is coming to church, activities etc but is there a way to tell if someone is converted?

[CV75]

Is there a way to tell if someone is converted? I know that it is easy to tell who is coming to church, activities etc but is there a way to tell if someone is converted?

It depends on the conrext in which that information seeks to be known. Can you give a example?

[wenglund]

I suggest taking people at their word and leaving God to judge between them and him. If they say they are converted, who are we to say otherwise.

Besides, the point of the gospel isn't to see if other people fit certain labels--like "converted", but whether we personally are coming to Christ and attempting to become like him.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Is there a way to tell if someone is converted? I know that it is easy to tell who is coming to church, activities etc but is there a way to tell if someone is converted?

It would require mind reading..but by their fruits ye shall know them. This is how you know anyone who lies about another's faith intentionally has never known God and thus never converted.

[thesometimesaint]

Pa Pa:

Agreed.

[Duncan]

I agree with all that has been said. An example for CV75 is a lady the missionaries are teaching and half the ward council is against it and the other hald are sure, sounds great! But the question was asked of her conversion and I said I have no idea, I don't know if anyone is converted and don't know if it is given to mankind to know-that's my opinion but I was wondering what other's thought

[The Nehor]

I think God doesn't let us know this for a reason.

[blackstrap]

Ask 'Uncle Ben' ,apparently he knows.

[The Nehor]

"Behold, I do not say that you shall not show it unto the righteous; But as you cannot always judge the righteous, or as you cannot always tell the wicked from the righteous, therefore I say unto you, hold your peace until I shall see fit to make all things known unto the world concerning the matter."

D&C 10:36-37

[Duncan]

"Behold, I do not say that you shall not show it unto the righteous; But as you cannot always judge the righteous, or as you cannot always tell the wicked from the righteous, therefore I say unto you, hold your peace until I shall see fit to make all things known unto the world concerning the matter."

D&C 10:36-37

wish you could come to church with me!!!! Tell you what, I'll even let you drive me!

[Calm]

Ask 'Uncle Ben' ,apparently he knows.

It only took me two minutes to figure this one out.....maybe it's because I'm reading the board while at church. Edited July 29, 2012 by calmoriah

[Carborendum]

Only through the Spirit.

[Robert F. Smith]

"Behold, I do not say that you shall not show it unto the righteous; But as you cannot always judge the righteous, or as you cannot always tell the wicked from the righteous, therefore I say unto you, hold your peace until I shall see fit to make all things known unto the world concerning the matter."

D&C 10:36-37

Yes, and a good bad example of that is Mark W. Hofmann, the notorious forger and murderer, who served a mission, wore his temple garments, was married in the temple, and posed as a TBM -- all while secretly hating the Church, forging documents designed to sow discord, and finally murdering two members in good standing. His anger eventually undid him, but many considered him to be true blue until he injured himself with a bomb designed to kill another person.

[CASteinman]

I don't think that's our job, really. Its a type of judgment and if anyone in the Ward is going to have any responsibility in that area, its probably going to be the Bishop. And maybe not even him.

Of course, Jesus has said "By their fruits ye shall know them". And I like to rely upon His words.

Edited July 29, 2012 by CASteinman

[Sky]

Are they humble (i.e. teachable, penitent, repentant, etc.)? Are they good-natured and Christlike? This is usually a good way to gauge whether or not somebody is converted. Don't get me wrong though - I don't go around judging whether or not other people are converted. I've got myself to worry about. But every once and a while, a particular person might stand out more than others as possessing these attributes.

[rpn]

They are perfect in Christ (and heirs to the Celestial Kingdom) the day they are baptized and are doing their personal best to know and submit their will to their Heavenly Father, and quickly repent, no matter how wide or narrow the gap is between their personal best and objective perfection. And each day thereafter.

So the quick and dirty way to tell is whether they are getting better and better at abandoning their sins, quickly repenting, and submitting their will to His.

[The Grimace]

I suggest taking people at their word and leaving God to judge between them and him. If they say they are converted, who are we to say otherwise.

Besides, the point of the gospel isn't to see if other people fit certain labels--like "converted", but whether we personally are coming to Christ and attempting to become like him.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Leadership at the ward level is all about labels and classification: inactives, actives, less-actives, unknowns, investigators, not to mention the lists of lists that are kept to track each of these people.

[wenglund]

Leadership at the ward level is all about labels and classification: inactives, actives, less-actives, unknowns, investigators, not to mention the lists of lists that are kept to track each of these people.

Those are relatively minor, though legitimate, means to the gospel end, and ought not be confused one with the other--the minor means ought not be confused with the all-important ends--particularly not in such a way as to mis my point.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[CASteinman]

Yes, and a good bad example of that is Mark W. Hofmann,

Interestingly enough, I did not distrust the documents he found -- they seemed reasonably authentic looking to me (I'm not an expert) but I always thought he was oily.

[The Grimace]

Those are relatively minor, though legitimate, means to the gospel end, and ought not be confused one with the other--the minor means ought not be confused with the all-important ends--particularly not in such a way as to mis my point.

I think, though, that the OP is a valid question given the propensity to use labels. 'Active' is not the same as 'converted'. My experience is that very few are converted, yet many are 'active' - they come to church, hold callings, do all the outward things, but when you see them in a non-Church environment, they are not the people they lead others in their 'church-life' to believe they are.

[CASteinman]

Leadership at the ward level is all about labels and classification: inactives, actives, less-actives, unknowns, investigators, not to mention the lists of lists that are kept to track each of these people.

This is so overly cynical as to resemble tabloid like "news". Fiction and innuendo mixed with as little fact as possible.

[The Grimace]

This is so overly cynical as to resemble tabloid like "news". Fiction and innuendo mixed with as little fact as possible.

Do you deny that these labels are used in Ward Councils? I'm not sure what part you think I'm making up; and I never said that I think these labels are useless.

[CASteinman]

Do you deny that these labels are used in Ward Councils? I'm not sure what part you think I'm making up; and I never said that I think these labels are useless.

There are also titles on the books in the libraries, brand names on the copiers and staplers and individual members of the ward carry their given and family names -- sometimes there will even be people who share given and or family names.

All of which is irrelevant to the notion of "leadership at the local level" as you asserted.

[The Nehor]

Yes, and a good bad example of that is Mark W. Hofmann, the notorious forger and murderer, who served a mission, wore his temple garments, was married in the temple, and posed as a TBM -- all while secretly hating the Church, forging documents designed to sow discord, and finally murdering two members in good standing. His anger eventually undid him, but many considered him to be true blue until he injured himself with a bomb designed to kill another person.

I kind of wonder if God was telling Joseph in advance due to the problems he had later (particularly with Bennet)

Leadership at the ward level is all about labels and classification: inactives, actives, less-actives, unknowns, investigators, not to mention the lists of lists that are kept to track each of these people.

Yes but we use those only because they are useful. It is usually (always?) accurate to say that inactives and less-actives are not fully converted or they wouldn't have that status. Same with investigators though for different reasons. Actives we can only guess at (most of the time) and help as we can through individual efforts and some programs.

The different categories suggest different problems or challenges the person faces though you do have to individualize for each person.

Edited July 30, 2012 by The Nehor

[CV75]

I agree with all that has been said. An example for CV75 is a lady the missionaries are teaching and half the ward council is against it and the other hald are sure, sounds great! But the question was asked of her conversion and I said I have no idea, I don't know if anyone is converted and don't know if it is given to mankind to know-that's my opinion but I was wondering what other's thought

I think you gave a good answer, and agree that no one can know except the Lord.

In 3 Nephi 9:13 te Lord says, "...return unto me, and repent of your sins, and be converted, that I may heal you..." So the determination of conversion is between the person and Him.

According to D&C 20:37, in relation to baptism, all we can go by is their "witness before the church that they have truly repented of all their sins, and are willing to take upon them the name of Jesus Christ, having a determination to serve him to the end, and truly manifest by their works that they have received of the Spirit of Christ unto the remission of their sins." This is done through priesthood interviews and may or may not have anything to do with teh conversion described in 3 Nephi 9:13.