Lds Church Subsidiary And Guns

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Pa Pa:

I believe in self defense. I just don't believe that any civilian needs 6000 rounds and hundred round magazines to do it. Not sure if any law enforcement official needs that either. I can usually talk my way out of violent situations before they start. So have had little use for firearms of any type, but that doesn't mean I don't know how/when to use them.

I agree there should be limits. I carry a conceal permit. I also collect guns, although I have not fired one in years.

[thesometimesaint]

Pa Pa:

I have just one firearm my S&W .44 mag. I don't practice with it any more, as it kicks like a mule, and the ammo is frightfully expensive. The sight of that big "Hog Leg" on my hip was more than enough to intimidate the heck out of most.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Pa Pa:

I have just one firearm my S&W .44 mag. I don't practice with it any more, as it kicks like a mule, and the ammo is frightfully expensive. The sight of that big "Hog Leg" on my hip was more than enough to intimidate the heck out of most.

?44 mag "the most powerful handgun in the world". (Dirty Harry). My S&W is a 9mm.

[thesometimesaint]

There are a few more powerful handguns. I can't imagine trying to control them in anything like rapid fire. It is hard enough with mine. I don't know as anyone likes to be kicked by a mule.

[Darren10]

Only for those who have made covenants....though I feel like cigarettes are inherently stupid.

Agreed on cigarettes being inherently stupid. however, while I'l agree onthe surface of what you said that only those who hve made covenants not to smoke via their baptisal covenants and subsequent covenants under the priesthood authority, is it or is it not an LDS view that smoking habits will impede one's progression towards exaltation (remember, even those who have not made covenants will had the challenge of kicking the habbit once they chose to make the necessary covenants), not that it is impossible and not that each and every one of us doesn't have personal challenges, we all do, but not all of them fall into temple-related worthiness.

You can hardly say any of this about people who buy guns from KSL's classified ads.

[Darren10]

More accuracy makes for less animal suffering as well.

It also means you're better prepared to protect your family and yourself if, heaven forbid, circumstances call upon it.

[Darren10]

My grandmother had a 410 shotgun she used on squirrels well into her 70's. You know how we backwoods Southerners are.

Heh!!!

[Darren10]

Of what legitimate interest does any private citizen in this country have for having 6000 rounds of ammo or a 100 round magazine?

Who are you to demand a legitimate interest in them? What if my food storage is 2 years instead of one? Should I be a terrorist suspect? I dpon't "need" 2 years of food storage so should I be prohibited in accumulating that much food? How about amonia? How much do I "need"? Should there be a governmental limit placed upon me as to how much kitchen chemicals I buy? If I reduced my food supply to the LDS recommended one year, should the government say I don't "need" that much food? If I liked to shoot should I be restricted by the government as to how many bullets I buy?

I have plenty against the gun nuts running around the woods pretending that they're somehow going to protect themselves against the Federal Government.

Why do the woods people always get the bad rap? Neither James Holmes, nor Seung-Hoi Cho folks who "ran around the woods". Neither were the Calumbine shooters. These were "normal" and "mainstream" urbanites.

Further I have oath sworn to support, and defend, the US Constitution many times in my life. Even as disabled as I now am I would not hesitate for a fraction of a second from doing so again. I am every bit as patriotic as you are, if not more so.

God bless you for your service. It is appreciated.

[Darren10]

Yes; Joseph Smith was a General in the Nauvoo militia. His idea of being a General involved little more than putting a fancy uniform and strutting around like a Peacock on a horse. That takes nothing against him as the first Prophet of the Restoration, but a real General he was not(General Swarzkopf would have had Smith for lunch in less than 10 minutes of real fighting).

Hogwash. If called upon by God to act, Joseph Smith would defeat any general in history. Joseph Smith could have killed many peple in his rightful defense but did not. He was a man of forgiveness. Don't mistake meekness for weakness.

[Darren10]

Fencing, ultimate fighting.

Now yer' talkin'.

[Darren10]

ERayR:

My two youngest sons are really into watching Ultimate Fighting. Me not so much.

Let me know if they live in the Spring, TX area.

[Darren10]

The sole designed purpose of firearms is to kill things(They make terrible hammers).

Muy Thai Kickboxing is designed to seriously mame and even kill. Should the government restrict this "not needed" martial art? Couldn't guns be usedfor defense, like kickboxing? Heck, what about sword play in karate class? Then there's Ninjistu. Sheesh, the list of "not needed" defense is endless.

In the end, how is buying guns from KSL classified ads more dangerous than these martial arts?

[Darren10]

For fun, target practice. As you well know since you told me how proficient you are with guns.

Good point. I wonder how many rounds the sometimessaint went through to get so proficient in firearms.

[Darren10]

YUUUMMM Bacon.

Now yer' talkin'.

[Darren10]

For the record I legally killed a man. He was pointing a .357 magnum at me. He is the only one whom has any responsibility for his own death.

Glad you came out of that confrontation. Agreed on who was responsible.

[ERayR]

For the record I legally killed a man. He was pointing a .357 magnum at me. He is the only one whom has any responsibility for his own death.

Why is that relevant to the discussion? I am sorry you were ever put in that position but I think if that had happened to me I would not talk about it especially on a discussion board.

[CQUIRK]

There's already been enough comments on the issue of guns in this forum here, so I'm not going to join in with the many arguments made by Darren10 and the others that I agree with, but I still need to address Duncan here...

Duncan, you seriously need to come to terms with reality, because I don't think you have at all; unless its after the Second Coming, no human society can ever, EVER live in a completely 100% peaceful and weaponless utopia; its our animal nature to not only not see eye-to-eye with one another, but also to fight or committ violence, whether to intentionally hurt others, or to protect one's self or family.

Violence is a part of human nature that we cannot ever rid ourselves of, it is always going to happen until after the End Times.

Deal with it, Duncan- its the truth.

Oh, and I will say this- for one, for a country as strict on gun ownership like yours, I was absolutely tickled pink when I heard the Canadian Parliament do away with the Long-Gun Registry; its quite obvious that the majority of Canadians are starting to wake up and realize that gun-control really isn't effective at all.

And two- if Switzerland had strict gun laws, would they still have been able to intimidate the Nazis from not invading their country like they did during World War 2?

[Duncan]

There's already been enough comments on the issue of guns in this forum here, so I'm not going to join in with the many arguments made by Darren10 and the others that I agree with, but I still need to address Duncan here...

Duncan, you seriously need to come to terms with reality, because I don't think you have at all; unless its after the Second Coming, no human society can ever, EVER live in a completely 100% peaceful and weaponless utopia; its our animal nature to not only not see eye-to-eye with one another, but also to fight or committ violence, whether to intentionally hurt others, or to protect one's self or family.

Violence is a part of human nature that we cannot ever rid ourselves of, it is always going to happen until after the End Times.

Deal with it, Duncan- its the truth.

Oh, and I will say this- for one, for a country as strict on gun ownership like yours, I was absolutely tickled pink when I heard the Canadian Parliament do away with the Long-Gun Registry; its quite obvious that the majority of Canadians are starting to wake up and realize that gun-control really isn't effective at all.

And two- if Switzerland had strict gun laws, would they still have been able to intimidate the Nazis from not invading their country like they did during World War 2?

I have come to reality, let me tellya. I live in a city that was voted most violent in Canada IIRC. But I haven't ever seen any violent crime while living here. Reality now and reality in the future don't appear to be the same

Isaiah 11: 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

Why wait until that day when you can do something about it now? I know that war and violence are here and will probably continue but that doesn't mean I need to hate and hurt and destroy. FWIW, I don't mind having a no long gun registry

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Hogwash. If called upon by God to act, Joseph Smith would defeat any general in history. Joseph Smith could have killed many peple in his rightful defense but did not. He was a man of forgiveness. Don't mistake meekness for weakness.

Indeed, remember Joseph in Liberty jail.

[thesometimesaint]

Darren10:

Who are you to demand a legitimate interest in them? What if my food storage is 2 years instead of one? Should I be a terrorist suspect? I dpon't "need" 2 years of food storage so should I be prohibited in accumulating that much food? How about amonia? How much do I "need"? Should there be a governmental limit placed upon me as to how much kitchen chemicals I buy? If I reduced my food supply to the LDS recommended one year, should the government say I don't "need" that much food? If I liked to shoot should I be restricted by the government as to how many bullets I buy?

Why do the woods people always get the bad rap? Neither James Holmes, nor Seung-Hoi Cho folks who "ran around the woods". Neither were the Calumbine shooters. These were "normal" and "mainstream" urbanites.

God bless you for your service. It is appreciated.

It is now just my wife and I. I don't drive any longer. So why would I need more than one car? I individually can't drive more than one at a time. If I really need one, say my car is in the shop, I have the common sense to rent one for as long as I need. It would be silly for me to buy another car just for the twice a year one car is in the shop for an oil change.

Now that our kids have left home and have families of their own. We don't need all our food storage. We could probably go a little over two years on what we have. It would get boring, but we would eat. However my food storage isn't just for us. I have good neighbors we've known for over 20 years and can't see us turning them away if they were hungry.

The simple fact is that you have a right to as many firearms, and ammo as you want. But common sense says that in all but a war situation you are never going to need 6000 rounds and 100 round magazines. I don't know about you but I'm a pretty good shot, and if I couldn't take down someone in 3 shots or less. I don't deserve or need that gun anyway.

I don't know what amonia is. If you mean ammonia based cleaning solutions then a couple of gallons is all that is necessary for an average sized house/family. Chlorine based cleaning solutions are actually better. DO NOT MIX THE TWO. IT WILL KILL. Buy as many as you want. I won't try to stop you. But having an over supply of poisonous cleaning solutions is a really bad idea. It can lead to accidental poisonings of pets and people. Further it takes up valuable space that can be used for food storage.

I recommend following the laws of whatever country you belong to. Here in the US we don't have laws regulating how much food you can have on hand. However common sense says that if I'm buying guns to protect the food storage I don't have. Then I'm probably not making the best us of my limited funds.

Shoot as often and as much as you can afford and like. Just be safe. Keep the ammo and firearms separated and under lock and key when when not in use.

I have nothing against woods people. Growing up I was an experienced hiker, and camper. Still know how to do it. But at my age have no desire to do so. It is the militia types that run around in the woods pretending that somehow they're going to defeat the US government when it comes to take their guns away from them that I have a problem with.

A nut with a gun is still a nut with a gun. Urban settings just offer more targets.

Thank you. I really mean that. It was far too long that our country didn't thank the Vietnam Era vets for their service. Let's hope and pray that we do better by our Iraq and Afghanistan vets, and work for the time when we will all fight no more forever.

[blackstrap]

I've personally never found fencing that much fun... what with digging the holes,tamping the posts in, stretching the wire,fighting mosquitos,etc. it can be a real pain.

There is a big problem with firearm training. In some states,all that is required to buy a handgun is a driver's licence.Oh ,the store owner will probably show you how to load it but that's about it. At least a driver's licence requires a skills and knowledge test first. Imagine how much better the highways would be if all that was needed to get a licence to drive was to show up with a Social Security number.Mind you,many people drive like that is all they needed.

[Darren10]

Indeed, remember Joseph in Liberty jail.

YES! Excellent reference.

[Darren10]

thesometimesaint #170;

I was implying as to whether or not the government should get involved and prohibit ammunition purchases since it doesn't "seem" reasonable? Of course you yourself are free to wonder why people need tons of ammo or not.

My point with ammonia is precisely as you pointed out: it can be deadly. So should the governmnet ban mass purchases of ammonia?

How is buying guns from KSL classified ads hurting people?

[Darren10]

Isaiah 11: 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

Right now in the Church it is wrong to contend and to "hurt". We are already living as Isaiah wrote we should.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

thesometimesaint #170;

I was implying as to whether or not the government should get involved and prohibit ammunition purchases since it doesn't "seem" reasonable? Of course you yourself are free to wonder why people need tons of ammo or not.

My point with ammonia is precisely as you pointed out: it can be deadly. So should the governmnet ban mass purchases of ammonia?

How is buying guns from KSL classified ads hurting people?

This guy was very smart...he probably used more than one source. I have many rounds from back in the day when I used to do a lot of target shooting.