More Exclusion...Lds Child Not Admitted To "Christian" School

[Bernard Gui]

http://www.arkansaso...pupil-20120531/

Emanuel, the board member, said the nation’s 6.1 million Mormons’ salvation is suspect, adding: “I don’t believe they’ll go to heaven.”

Comments?

Bernard

Edited June 1, 2012 by Bernard Gui

[Avatar4321]

“He drew a circle that shut me out Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout. But love and I had the wit to win We drew a circle that took him in” Charles Edwin Markham

[Calm]

“It’s very, very sneaky when people come in, especially in elementary and junior high grades where the kids are very influenced. It’s frightening how quickly things can get turned around,” she said. “They are called to do that, which is fine.

"Called to do" what?

[Storm Rider]

"Called to do" what?

That is the thing that stood out to me in the article. This "Christian" accuses LDS of following the Great Commission to strenuously. We may serve missions; we teach each other to testify of Christ; we teach each other to be a missionary; but to be "sneaky" about it? I am sorry, but I just hate stupid people. I don't feel pity for them and I wish that I could have a more patient love and charity for them. What I feel is more akin to wanting to mash them; take them by their ears and show them how incredibly shallow and stupid they are. Obviously, I am a very telestial sort of man and I admit it freely and often.

On the other hand, if a private school does not allow LDS, then please don't apply. It appears that LDS were admitted in the past, but now these little people would like to be more proactive. What is of import, is the call to start your own schools. I have long felt that LDS should be even more active in private schools throughout the world. Schools that are open to all, but will teach Christian principals. I admire the Catholic Church for doing this. Our children attended private schools through graduation; though they did not attend a Catholic school they were accepted at the high school level. We ended up choosing a more secular, but more academically challenging school.

I learned while a teenager that Evangelicals were not to be trusted and are anything but Christian when it comes to me being a LDS. There is not a week that goes by that I am not reminded that they remain a lost people full of hate, contention, dishonesty, and evil. These are the type of people that if Jesus were to be on earth today would quickly crucify him for not fitting into the image of the God they have created. Thank God that there is a separation between Church and State; were it not so these are the people who would be burning every LDS at the stake as a heretic.

I realize this is a strong opinion, but it has been learned by living amongst them and dealing with their constant, consistent examples of being anything but Christian. If you disagree, I invite you to live among them for a few years.

[Log]

When I went to apply to be a teacher at a local Christian school, they had an interesting statement of faith they insisted all applicants sign. It was similar in intent to this snippet copied off another school's application for faculty employment.

Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior and Lord?___________ When?________________

Church Affiliation____________________ Where? ___________________________ Member?_________

Are you willing to work harmoniously with members of other denominations? ________________________

Do you believe the Bible to be the only inspired and infallible Word of God, our final authority in all matters

of faith and conduct?

It's that last question that I perceive is self-contradictory coming from anyone who claims to have received Christ as their personal Savior and Lord. Do "Christians" truly pray and never receive answers? Because that, to me, is the direct implication of the position that the Bible is the sole Word of God, and the final authority in all matters of faith and conduct.

As to the OP: Arkansas is a lovely place. Despite the fact that they slew an apostle back in the day, it has a lot of natural beauty to it. The Saints are very friendly and the pace of life is much slower.

However, there are, compared to cosmopolitan CA, many obvious prejudices, and not just against Mormons. There once was a city sign with a noose on it aimed at blacks in a community I dwelt in, for example.

But, anyways, there's nothing in the OP that surprises me - it's not just AR. It's potentially any Protestant / Baptist school that would have similar rules against Mormons, and for the same reasons.

Strangely, Catholic schools seem more accepting.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Log

[selek1]

That is the thing that stood out to me in the article. This "Christian" accuses LDS of following the Great Commission too strenuously. We may serve missions; we teach each other to testify of Christ; we teach each other to be a missionary; but to be "sneaky" about it? I am sorry, but I just hate stupid people. I don't feel pity for them and I wish that I could have a more patient love and charity for them. What I feel is more akin to wanting to mash them; take them by their ears and show them how incredibly shallow and stupid they are. Obviously, I am a very telestial sort of man and I admit it freely and often.

Join the club. We have T-shirts and chocolates for fund raisers.

On the other hand, if a private school does not allow LDS, then please don't apply. It appears that LDS were admitted in the past, but now these little people would like to be more proactive.

Emphasis on "little". Small mindedm small-hearted.

I have long felt that LDS should be even more active in private schools throughout the world. Schools that are open to all, but will teach Christian principals. I admire the Catholic Church for doing this. Our children attended private schools through graduation; though they did not attend a Catholic school they were accepted at the high school level. We ended up choosing a more secular, but more academically challenging school.

I learned while a teenager that Evangelicals were not to be trusted and are anything but Christian when it comes to me being a LDS. There is not a week that goes by that I am not reminded that they remain a lost people full of hate, contention, dishonesty, and evil. These are the type of people that if Jesus were to be on earth today would quickly crucify him for not fitting into the image of the God they have created. Thank God that there is a separation between Church and State; were it not so these are the people who would be burning every LDS at the stake as a heretic.

Save that I would be careful to differential between the Rob Bowman/Larry Craig school of Evangelicalism and the rest of "mainstream" Christianity, I agree.

Most of the Southern Baptists I grew up around were fundamentally indistinguishable from the Mormons with whom I now surround myself- earnest, good-hearted folks just trying to live the best lives they knew how. Yes, there was an ill-defined disdain of the "other", but these folks were first in line with casseroles and a helping hand when there was a need.

And yes- there were (and are) most certainly wolves hiding in amongst the sheep.

While it is certainly necessary to hold fools, charlatans, and hypocrites up to public ridicule and scorn, it is also needful that we paint with an appropriately-sized brush.

I realize this is a strong opinion, but it has been learned by living amongst them and dealing with their constant, consistent examples of being anything but Christian. If you disagree, I invite you to live among them for a few years.

I have. It is that experience that pushes me to qualify my opinions.

Overall, +1 (outta rep points for another couple hours, so this'll have to do).

[CV75]

It's that last question ...

RE: "Do you believe the Bible to be the only inspired and infallible Word of God, our final authority in all matters

of faith and conduct?" I would reply “Yes,” since “our” refers to them and (presumably) school policy, not me personally!

[thesometimesaint]

Just keep in mind that they will receive their reward.

[Bob Crockett]

Mormons shouldn't be bellyaching, really, about being excluded from the trappings of evangelicalism when we teach that all professors of religion are corrupt.

I started the application for doctoral work at Fuller Theological Seminary, only to be discouraged when I asked if my ecclesiastical recommendation could be a Mormon bishop. No big deal. We make our bed the way we want and shouldn't complain about the sheets we pick.

[Storm Rider]

Mormons shouldn't be bellyaching, really, about being excluded from the trappings of evangelicalism when we teach that all professors of religion are corrupt.

I started the application for doctoral work at Fuller Theological Seminary, only to be discouraged when I asked if my ecclesiastical recommendation could be a Mormon bishop. No big deal. We make our bed the way we want and shouldn't complain about the sheets we pick.

Yup, that is what I hear every Sunday; how corrupt these professors of religion are. I hear it in Sacrament, Sunday School, and Priesthood; a constant drum beat.....not. I cannot remember the last time I heard this discussed in Church. When the full message of the First Vision is discussed, as in the entire transcript, you might hear it.

Bobby, you can find it stated, but being "taught" is more than a stretch. As leaders will always say, stick to the fundamentals: repentance, faith, baptism, and the Gift of the Holy Ghost. That is what is taught weekly in Church. I will take those sheets everyday!

[The Nehor]

They have every right to exclude us and we really shouldn't try to attend these kinds of places on the basis of "being Christian" unless we are willing to fight for our Jewish, Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, pagan, atheist etc. brothers and sisters for their right to attend too.

[thesometimesaint]

To paraphrase Gandhi;

I like your Christ just fine, your christian actions... not so much.

[Gervin]

I learned while a teenager that Evangelicals were not to be trusted and are anything but Christian when it comes to me being a LDS. There is not a week that goes by that I am not reminded that they remain a lost people full of hate, contention, dishonesty, and evil. These are the type of people that if Jesus were to be on earth today would quickly crucify him for not fitting into the image of the God they have created. Thank God that there is a separation between Church and State; were it not so these are the people who would be burning every LDS at the stake as a heretic.

I realize this is a strong opinion, but it has been learned by living amongst them and dealing with their constant, consistent examples of being anything but Christian. If you disagree, I invite you to live among them for a few years.

Of the 700 million people who identify as Evangelical (Lausanne Global Analysis, 2010) how many would you say you've been exposed to? How many have you known on a personal basis, i.e., counted as friends? Just curious. I've been living "among them" for decades and my experience is quite different.

How many of the General Authorities do you suppose endorse your sentiment that Evangelicals are "a lost people full of hate, contention, dishonesty, and evil?"

Edited June 1, 2012 by Gervin

[oremites]

They have every right to exclude us and we really shouldn't try to attend these kinds of places on the basis of "being Christian" unless we are willing to fight for our Jewish, Islamic, Hindu, Buddhist, pagan, atheist etc. brothers and sisters for their right to attend too.

I'm not sure I understand your point. None of those others you list claim to be Christian. They wouldn't be trying to attend on the basis of "being Christian." I'm not even sure the LDS student was enrolling on the basis of "being Christian." They were probably enrolling because they wanted to go to a Christian school.

Like you, I totally support the school's right to exclude whoever they want. I'll admit I don't understand the attitude of excluding non-Christians. As long as the enrolling students understand exactly what the school is about, then let them come. Here's a golden opportunity to help a misguided Mormon learn about true Christianity while surrounded by Christian students and teachers.

[cinepro]

Bobby, you can find it stated, but being "taught" is more than a stretch. As leaders will always say, stick to the fundamentals: repentance, faith, baptism, and the Gift of the Holy Ghost. That is what is taught weekly in Church. I will take those sheets everyday!

If another religion had it in their scripture that my religion was "wrong", I'm not sure how much comfort I would feel if they insisted that even though it was "stated", they weren't teaching it every week.

But at least now I know what Joseph McConkie was talking about at the Joseph Smith Symposium:

In this context the reader is invited to consider three touchy or sensitive texts that stand at the very heart of our theology. These texts have been chosen to honor Joseph and Hyrum Smith, the great martyrs of our faith. They did not seal their testimony with their blood in Carthage Jail so that we may teach ethics. They did not die hoping that future generations of Latter-day Saints would say to the world, "Look, we are just like you." Elder John Taylor said that in death Joseph and Hyrum sought to seal the revelations found in the Doctrine and Covenants and the Book of Mormon (see D&C 135:1). They sought neither acceptance nor approval from the historical Christian world; indeed, in all matters of faith, they sought to stand independent of that world. As ironic as it may seem to some, it was in this course and in this course alone that they and those who sustained them expected to find peace.

Each of the three texts comes from the revelations of the Restoration, and each is frequently considered offensive by those not of our faith. Even within the Church some are uncomfortable with these texts and feel a need to apologize for them.

The first text comes from the Lord's preface to the Book of Commandments, in which He calls the Church recently organized by Joseph Smith "the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth" (D&C 1:30).

The second is part of the Prophet's account of the First Vision, in which he asked the Lord which church he should join: "I was answered," the Prophet said, "that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: 'they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof'" (Joseph Smith-History 1:19).

The third text comes from the Book of Mormon, in which Nephi prophesied that in our day there would be "save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth" (1 Nephi 14:10).

Joseph Fielding McConkie “The First Vision and Religious Tolerance,” in A Witness for the Restoration: Essays in Honor of Robert J. Matthews, ed. Kent P. Jackson and Andrew C. Skinner (Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 2007), 177–99.

Edited June 1, 2012 by cinepro

[KevinG]

...we teach that all professors of religion are corrupt.

You just failed Sunday School.

[thesometimesaint]

Gervin:

Most people count less than a couple of dozen close friends and family, add in maybe a couple dozen more from church, mosque, synagogue we associate regularly with, and add a few random people. We're talking at most around 40.

I doubt any GA subscribes to that view, but like most LDS the only time I get to "be with" them is in GC by way of the TV.

[cinepro]

You just failed Sunday School.

I subscribe to the "limited scope of corruption" theory of the First Vision, where Jesus wasn't referring to all other Churches when he said "they were all wrong" and that "those professors were all corrupt", but only those in the upstate New York area in the spring of 1820. At that time, Joseph Smith's "world" was only a few counties big, so when Jesus said "all", He really meant "all that are within a radius of a few miles".

This would mean that there may have been non-wrong, non-corrupt churches and professors in other cities and counties, but since Joseph didn't specify a radius, the answer would probably just apply to those within easy commuting distance.

[The Nehor]

To paraphrase Gandhi;

I like your Christ just fine, your christian actions... not so much.

Considering Gandhi's love for mankind was mostly the love of a caricatured liberal (love mankind in the abstract, be a git to most everyone you actually meet) I take his thoughts with the Pacific Ocean's salt content.

[The Nehor]

I subscribe to the "limited scope of corruption" theory of the First Vision, where Jesus wasn't referring to all other Churches when he said "they were all wrong" and that "those professors were all corrupt", but only those in the upstate New York area in the spring of 1820. At that time, Joseph Smith's "world" was only a few counties big, so when Jesus said "all", He really meant "all that are within a radius of a few miles".

This would mean that there may have been non-wrong, non-corrupt churches and professors in other cities and counties, but since Joseph didn't specify a radius, the answer would probably just apply to those within easy commuting distance.

I subscribe to the view that says corruption is something good gone wrong somewhere and not the view we have today where we usually use it to mean broken computers and politicians that take bribes.

[thesometimesaint]

The Nehor:

Gandhi was a skilled politician, who knew he was up against a far more powerful military enemy, the British. He used what tools he had available to him. Demonize his enemy's actions without demonizing their religion.

[The Nehor]

The Nehor:

Gandhi was a skilled politician, who knew he was up against a far more powerful military enemy, the British. He used what tools he had available to him. Demonize his enemy's actions without demonizing their religion.

I disagree. I think he was an idiotic politician. He makes his campaign for peace and pacifism in the middle of World War II. Read his naive letter to Hitler calling for compassion or his even more naive letter to the Jews in Occupied Europe calling on them to submit peaceably and all will be well. More locally he undermines the British resistance to the Japanese. His influence really hurt the war effort and tied down British troops desperately needed elsewhere. The British tolerated Gandhi; the Japanese would have shot him. Of course he never seemed to realize that.

His calls for independence were contested by the British. For some British it was obviously imperialistic motives but for some British it was moral reasons and you find them in the newspapers of the day. The British had protected the lower castes in Hinduism for years. The fear was that with premature independence the upper castes would take bloody vengeance and reimpose the system. Once Gandhi won his objective that is exactly what happened. Add in India's war with Pakistan and the death toll was even higher.

He won India's independence and India still hasn't truly stabilized. Not much of a legacy. I do give India credit for one thing. The PR campaign they sell about Gandhi has been a smashing success to the point where he is seen as a kind of pseudo-Saint in the west.

Don't even get me started about his personal life. Ewwwwwww.........

[ERayR]

"Called to do" what?

A five year old missionary called to convert the Academy to Mormonism? They start em young in Little Rock.

Edited June 1, 2012 by ERayR

[ERayR]

If another religion had it in their scripture that my religion was "wrong", I'm not sure how much comfort I would feel if they insisted that even though it was "stated", they weren't teaching it every week.

They do. That is what this is all about. The kid is Mormon. Mormonism is wrong therefore he can't attend ergo they are teaching my religion is wrong and they are teaching it every week in things just like this.

Now I am in complete agreement that the school has the right to exclude anyone they want to as long as they are not receiving federal or state tax monies.

This happens sometimes. When one holds out the hand of friendship they sometimes bring back a bloody stub. It is beyond my comprehension why some people put their children out front like this then scream when the child is hurt.

But then that is just me.

[Calm]

Schools that are open to all, but will teach Christian principals. I admire the Catholic Church for doing this.

I have had some friends not allowed to attend Catholic schools for being LDS. It must be a variable policy.

I think they have a perfect right to exclude those they think will detract from the atmosphere they are trying to produce just as BYU has a right to exclude exmormons from attending. I can understand teachers not wanting to tell the children that they think they are going to hell if they don't change their faith from their parents. Or not wanting to get into discussions about what God is like or not wanting to tell a child his church leaders are a fraud, etc. or their scripture is not to be discussed in class. Most teachers I would think would avoid the subject if possible, but kids will bring up inappropriate topics that teachers feel the need to address and if a LDS child brought up something they learned at church about a subject that was contradictory to the standards taught at the school, the teacher would have a duty to correct him for the sake of the other children as well as in his/her belief that the child was being taught incorrectly at home and church and that could lead them to hell eventually.

It is unfortunate when it is not stated clearly upfront so that LDS know not to even bother to apply, it was very unfortunate that in this case the school had changed its policy so that one child could attend and the other got her hopes up only to be disappointing. As for not being able to attend with all of one's friends, this can happen even in public schools where it is not only geography but availability that determines what school one goes to. I moved into an area a month after school started and ended up going to a completely different school than anyone else in the neighbourhood. Worse year of my life, though that was only one of the reason (not knowing anyone at the school and having no good way to get to know them better save through contact in class).

Edited June 1, 2012 by calmoriah