cacheman Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 There was some dietary discussion that was entertwined and subsequently buried in the recent Word of Wisdom thread. I felt that the topic deserved a separate thread. Specifically, I'm interested in the thoughts of folks here regarding the consumption of meat, and how their faith influences their food choices. DWhitmer posted multiple quotations by past LDS leaders that appeared support the judicious use of meat, and even the abstinence of meat when not needed. Below are links to an article written by a BYU professor, a past Ensign article, and a newspaper article about a talk on vegetarianism and mormonism.http://www.ldsveg.org/ChrisFosterPhd.htmhttp://www.lds.org/ensign/1972/08/the-gospel-and-animalshttp://news.hjnews.com/features/article_a6c1e444-89a2-11e1-adbc-0019bb2963f4.htmlI'm curious to hear people's perspectives on these issues. Are there errors in the articles that I linked? Do you believe that meat should only be eaten when necessary? If not, what justifications do you have for meat consumption? How do you define sparingly?Also: Has there been any recent talks or articles published by the LDS church on this subject?Thanks!cacheman
The Nehor Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 If God didn't want me to eat animals he shouldn't have made them out of delicious meat.I suspect that there is no eating of animals in heaven which has clarified my list of priorities when I get there. My first order of business on arrival will be creating a tree that grows steaks. 1
blackstrap Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 Humans are omnivores and hence can (are able to) eat meat and many other things I prefer not to eat(ie. cockroaches) We can survive on very restricted diets but hopefully are aware that a balanced diet of fruits,vegetables, breads ,meats, and of course chocolate, is best for our system. Meat should be eaten with due concern for the creatures.Those who have had the joyful experience of visiting a factory farm for pigs or chickens or turkeys or cattle hopefully come away with a desire to be less of a consumer. When people killed their own animals they were less frivolous,I think.
The Nehor Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 I was conflicted about meant and then I saw this film:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bps-xbo8wnA
Hamba Tuhan Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 I buy maybe one to two kilos of meat per month, and I usually cook it only when I have Young Men to feed.
Log Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) It is my opinion that the underlying principle of the Word of Wisdom is that if it comes down to your life or the animal's, you get to eat the animal. Otherwise, you should avoid it.That is also the same justification for killing a fellow human being. Edited May 18, 2012 by Log
The Nehor Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 That is also the same justification for killing a fellow human being.If you're hungry? 1
Hamba Tuhan Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) If you're hungry?One of my students in Indonesia had a grandmother who, before her conversion to Christianity, had eaten French missionaries. She insisted we taste like lean pork. Somehow it makes me feel better to know that I'm that delicious. Edited May 18, 2012 by Hamba Tuhan
Log Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 If you're hungry?Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are tasty and great with ketchup.
Hamba Tuhan Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are tasty and great with ketchup.But far better with chilli sauce.
Log Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 But far better with chilli sauce.I know, right? That new sweet chili sauce from McDonald's with the nuggets is a very good interpretation of the real thing.
Hamba Tuhan Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 I know, right? That new sweet chili sauce from McDonald's with the nuggets is a very good interpretation of the real thing.Wouldn't know since for me eating at McDonald's is definitely an issue of 'only to save my life'. But I do like the real thing!
Storm Rider Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 For me the WofW is just what it is as it is read. I don't think that strict vegetarianism is in keeping with its principles, BUT I also think that most of us should be vegetarians most of the time. There is no need to add or take away from the advice given. Furthermore, I also feel it is okay to use moderation i.e. if someone wants to eat a steak I am not bothered by it. I know that I eat more meat than I should and that my diet should be made up mostly of vegetables and grains, but I have not yet tried to gain a better knowledge of how to cook and eat this way. In other words I have failed to follow the counsel provided by our Father in Heaven.
cinepro Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 Stan: Dude, dolphins are intelligent and friendly.Cartman: Intelligent and friendly on rye bread with some mayonnaise.Stan: Dolphins are way smarter than you!Cartman: If they're so smart, why do they live in igloos?Stan: Dolphins don't live in igloos, that's Eskimos!Cartman: Dolphins, Eskimos, what's the difference?
BCSpace Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 I think the fact that there are two commands in tension: "Eat meat sparingly" and "Whosoever forbid".....tells us that there is no right amount that applies to everyone unlike alcohol which amount is zero.
Log Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) I think the fact that there are two commands in tension: "Eat meat sparingly" and "Whosoever forbid".....tells us that there is no right amount that applies to everyone unlike alcohol which amount is zero.There is no tension.18 And whoso forbiddeth to abstain from meats, that man should not eat the same, is not ordained of God;Whoever forbids vegetarianism is not ordained of God. Edited May 18, 2012 by Log
cacheman Posted May 18, 2012 Author Posted May 18, 2012 Humans are omnivores and hence can (are able to) eat meat and many other things I prefer not to eat(ie. cockroaches) We can survive on very restricted diets but hopefully are aware that a balanced diet of fruits,vegetables, breads ,meats, and of course chocolate, is best for our system. Meat should be eaten with due concern for the creatures.Those who have had the joyful experience of visiting a factory farm for pigs or chickens or turkeys or cattle hopefully come away with a desire to be less of a consumer. When people killed their own animals they were less frivolous,I think.I agree with your thoughts on animal factory farming. I think their existence is a symptom of some of our societal ills and a reflection of our growing disconnect from food production in general. I do not believe, however, that meat is essential for a healthy balanced diet.Thanks for sharing your thoughts!cacheman
cacheman Posted May 18, 2012 Author Posted May 18, 2012 It is my opinion that the underlying principle of the Word of Wisdom is that if it comes down to your life or the animal's, you get to eat the animal. Otherwise, you should avoid it.That's the impression that I get as well.
Calm Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) I would love to be able to be vegetarian but unfortunately being so, even when being careful to get the right proteins, etc. the result is weakness and stomach upset. Can't use just eggs and dairy to replace it either, can only manage them in small amounts and still have issues of fatigue. Don't know why, but I have to have either beef or fish on a regular basis (min every third day, better every other day) to function.From what I've read, this is not uncommon. Now I don't need to eat large amounts and I would suspect most, if not all, in my position could function eating meat sparingly in comparison to the typical American/Canadian diet, but I think to insist there is no need to eat meat, etc. for anyone is an overstatement. For some it just may be essential. Edited May 18, 2012 by calmoriah
cacheman Posted May 18, 2012 Author Posted May 18, 2012 For me the WofW is just what it is as it is read. I don't think that strict vegetarianism is in keeping with its principles, BUT I also think that most of us should be vegetarians most of the time. There is no need to add or take away from the advice given. Furthermore, I also feel it is okay to use moderation i.e. if someone wants to eat a steak I am not bothered by it.I know that I eat more meat than I should and that my diet should be made up mostly of vegetables and grains, but I have not yet tried to gain a better knowledge of how to cook and eat this way. In other words I have failed to follow the counsel provided by our Father in Heaven.I think most strict vegetarians would leave open the option to eat meat in survival situations. In that regard, it seems that someone could never eat meat and still be following the principle of the WoW. What do you think?cacheman
cacheman Posted May 18, 2012 Author Posted May 18, 2012 (edited) I think the fact that there are two commands in tension: "Eat meat sparingly" and "Whosoever forbid".....tells us that there is no right amount that applies to everyone unlike alcohol which amount is zero.When looking at the D&C 49 verses in context it specifically seems to say that eating meat without need is wrong. Perhaps that's the 'right amount' for everyone.Verse 21: And wo be unto man that sheddeth blood or that wasteth flesh and hath no need.cacheman Edited May 18, 2012 by cacheman
cacheman Posted May 18, 2012 Author Posted May 18, 2012 I would love to be able to be vegetarian but unfortunately being so, even when being careful to get the right proteins, etc. the result is weakness and stomach upset. Can't use just eggs and dairy to replace it either, can only manage them in small amounts and still have issues of fatigue. Don't know why, but I have to have either beef or fish on a regular basis (min every third day, better every other day) to function.From what I've read, this is not uncommon. Now I don't need to eat large amounts and I would suspect most, if not all, in my position could function eating meat sparingly in comparison to the typical American/Canadian diet, but I think to insist there is no need to eat meat, etc. for anyone is an overstatement. For some it just may be essential.I am certainly open to the idea that certain physiologies or medical circumstances might require one to eat meat. I am not aware of any studies that demonstrate that, but I would definitely not suggest anyone eat a diet that doesn't provide the nutrition that they need. Have you worked with a dietician or physician on this issue? There might be ways around it.cacheman
Alan Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 I have lived as a vegetarian for many years. Nowadays I do eat the odd piece of fish. My wife is also a vegetarian.In my experience most church members violate the Word of Wisdom because they eat far too much meat. It always makes me chuckle when these members will condemn those who drink coca cola while stuffing a hamburger in their mouths. We will be held accountable for all the flesh we consume.
thesometimesaint Posted May 18, 2012 Posted May 18, 2012 Alan:The amount of sugar/high fructose corn syrup in soft drinks would be a concern of mine. Western diets would be better for us if we ate less processed foods, and meats, twice to three times a week a piece the size of a deck of cards is fine for most adults. I don't have a problem with adults going vegetarian, but getting the necessary vitamins/complete proteins/minerals takes more work for vegetarians. I don't get Vegans at all, it doesn't even look healthy as a diet.
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