Lds Views On Animal Production And Consumption

[cacheman]

Sure. But again, "need" is undefined and so the actual amounts are going to be up to the individual. IIRC, there was an Ensign article in the early 70's that put forth the notion of eating meat every day, albeit just a couple of ounces, to ward off hunger and overeating. I myself tried the Atkins diet in it's heyday and lost 70 lbs. I did induction almost exclusively and my cholesterol and other indicators remained very low. Most diets now are very Atkins-like and seem to understand that grain (carbs) are the staff of life. The more active your life, the smaller the staff you need. Eating all the meat you can handle is never recommended and in fact the larger meat portions of today are lamented compared to say 50 years ago (quarter pounders used to be 1/6 or 1/8 lb). That's how I've reconciled things and I am very comfortable with it.

I agree that individual choice is good. For me personally, 'need' is defined as that which is necessary for life and good health.

cacheman

[Calm]

I feel sorry for all the pain vegetables and fruit have to go through. I say save a vegetable eat a steak!

Just for you:

[T-Shirt]

People would quiz me on how I got my protein, iron, etc and I neeeded answers. Ironically, most people were quizzing me about my diet and nutritional concerns while they ate a cheeseburger, fast food, or junkfood.

Vegetarians can be just as prone to fast food and junk food. I could , just as easily say that a vegetarian was asking me why I eat meat while they were chowing down on potato chips, candy and soda pop. A vegetarian diet can be healthy, but there is nothing about not eating meat that automatically makes it a better diet. There are a lot of bad foods in the world that do not contain meat. A vegetarian can be just as unhealthy as a non-vegetarian. Conversely, a non-vegetarian can be just as healthy, if not more so, than a vegetarian.

Edited May 18, 2012 by T-Shirt

[Calm]

And for the vegetarians:

[mfbukowski]

The LDS Church does not disclose the revenue of the ranch, but it is known that in year 2000 they moved 16 million pounds (7300 t) of calves, which at the time translated to about $16 million in revenue.

Wow that's great! I am so happy that my tithing funds are wisely invested instead of in things like solar power which has been shown to be an abysmal investment.

[mfbukowski]

On the serious side, a lot of food my doctor tells me to avoid (potatoes, pasta, IOW carbs) I can not eat, but meat I can. Just following doctors orders...

That is a serious problem for diabetics who would probably die on a diet of grains.

[mfbukowski]

From the American Dietetic Association vegans are advised to make sure they have adequate sources of vitamin B12, iron, vitamin D, calcium, iodine, and omega-3 fatty acids. It would appear that the rules that apply to vegetarians even apply more so to vegans.

I would love to be vegan but it's just too hard- you practically have to be an expert on nutrition.

[Log]

I would love to be vegan but it's just too hard- you practically have to be an expert on nutrition.

They pride themselves on this knowledge. I'm related to a couple of former vegans.

[Log]

And for the vegetarians:

I would give you a point for that, but I already gave all my points to someone else. Sorry.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Log

[cacheman]

That is a serious problem for diabetics who would probably die on a diet of grains.

That is a serious problem for diabetics who would probably die on a diet of grains.

FYI - Here is what the American Diabetes Association has to say about vegan and vegetarian diets...

http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/planning-meals/meal-planning-for-vegetarians/

[cacheman]

They pride themselves on this knowledge. I'm related to a couple of former vegans.

It really doesn't take that much knowledge. I don't see much difference in the amount of nutrition info needed to plan a healthy omnivorous diet vs. a vegan diet.

[mfbukowski]

That is a serious problem for diabetics who would probably die on a diet of grains.

FYI - Here is what the American Diabetes Association has to say about vegan and vegetarian diets...

http://www.diabetes....or-vegetarians/

People with diabetes can choose to follow this type of vegetarian diet too. The vegan diet includes a variety of plant-based foods. Eating soy products and a mix of vegetables, fruits, beans, and whole grains provides plenty of protein and other important nutrients. The main nutrient of concern for this group is vitamin B12, so taking a supplement or multi-vitamin is usually necessary.

Yes I know. What I said was a diet of GRAINS. What they are suggesting is NOT a diet of grains.

[mfbukowski]

It really doesn't take that much knowledge. I don't see much difference in the amount of nutrition info needed to plan a healthy omnivorous diet vs. a vegan diet.

Please note your own quote and my answer above. It does obviously require knowledge and planning, and supplementation, whereas throwing in some meat does not.

The entire point is that most people do NO diet planning. I am not in favor of that, but clearly eating healthfully does require planning and knowledge. You can't get around it.

I don't think the pioneers had too many supplements nor the abundance to do planning, so we have the WOW which is just what it says it is- "wisdom".

When you're down to your last pound of salted pork, you eat it and hope it's not too moldy.

Edited May 18, 2012 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

It really doesn't take that much knowledge. I don't see much difference in the amount of nutrition info needed to plan a healthy omnivorous diet vs. a vegan diet.

The irony is that you knew just where to find that quote- that said that a good diet requires knowledge and planning.

Edited May 18, 2012 by mfbukowski

[cacheman]

Please note your own quote and my answer above. It does obviously require knowledge and planning, and supplementation, whereas throwing in some meat does not.

Not really. A variety of grains, veggies, and fruits is needed for a healthy omnivore diet as well. The main difference is that instead of cooking and preparing meat that comes from animals that were provided supplements, I just take the multivitamin with B12. It doesn't require the 'practically an expert' knowledge that you referred to earlier.

BTW - I was confused about your 'diet of grains' comment due to the fact that I've never heard of anyone promoting that sort of diet. That would be dangerous for anyone!

[BlueDreams]

TSS:

Maybe it was just that I was young(er) and crazy(er) but it just wasn’t my experience. The hardest part was the overcoming of cravings… that’s about it. Most of the people I know who are veg or went veg also didn’t have much of a problem with it easier. Keeping my diet well balanced is no more difficult, in my mind, than having a healthy diet period.

I don't believe in the wanton killing of any animal. But when faced with killing a cow or going hungry, Bye Bye Bessie.

Good. I don’t mind if others eat or like meat.

Be aware that modern agriculture has removed a great deal of the nutrition of our fruits, veggies, and grains when compared to just a few decades ago. Plus the so called fortification only adds back in a small percentage of that loss. So the bigger variety of foods you eat. The better the chances for a improved diet. The occasional fast food(no more than once or twice a month) won't hurt you, but a prolonged diet of the stuff is terrible for your health, and weight.

Yep to all of that.

T-shirt:

My comment wasn’t specifically about that in mind. I don’t think you have to entirely rid of meat to be healthy. I by far do not have the monopoly on good diets. It’s more a monologue of all the criticism I’ve ever received about being vegetarian. (Including that it’s unhealthy, we need meat to survive, God gave us meat, and it’s crazy).

As for the irony, it was more so the hypocrisy of scrutinizing someone else’s diet when oneself takes very little notice of what they eat. I don’t mind questions… just that one doesn’t belittle or question my diet while simultaneously ignoring their own. Most meat eaters aren’t questioned regularly about how they get their protein/iron/nutrients and what they usually eat for breakfast.

P.S. Though you can still easily pig out as a vegetarian (just did it this week since it was my Bday), the options are still very…limited in some ways. Especially with fast food.

With luv,

BD

[mfbukowski]

Not really. A variety of grains, veggies, and fruits is needed for a healthy omnivore diet as well. The main difference is that instead of cooking and preparing meat that comes from animals that were provided supplements, I just take the multivitamin with B12. It doesn't require the 'practically an expert' knowledge that you referred to earlier.

How do you know that's "healthy"? Specialized knowledge.

BTW - I was confused about your 'diet of grains' comment due to the fact that I've never heard of anyone promoting that sort of diet. That would be dangerous for anyone!

What prompted the comment was the phrase "staff of life".

[Anijen]

Just for you:

[media=]

Made my day thank you.

[BlueDreams]

How do you know that's "healthy"? Specialized knowledge.

I don't think you could really consider that specialized. All you need is google to find millions of easy to read hits on what to eat. To me, what's hard about going vegan is my shameless addiction to dairy and omelets. (Man, nothing is better than breakfast of a mushroom, spinach, onion, and feta cheese omlette with rosemary and garlic cooked into the egg and cooked with olive oil. I'll eat it with scratch pancakes covered in apple sauce and cinnamon) It's not my body that's got needs, its my tastebuds.

With luv,

BD

Edited May 18, 2012 by BlueDreams

[cacheman]

Since this thread has veered from its course, and become a discussion on the health and practicality of veganism (probably not a topic suited for this board), I'll bow out. I don't want to sound like I'm preaching my personal viewpoint.

Thanks for everyone's comments. It's interesting to see the variety of perspectives among LDS on this issue. While my thoughts differ from some who have posted, I respect people's rights to choose what they eat. Despite no longer being LDS, I am happy to share similar feelings for the value of animal life with some posters on this board and some past LDS leaders.

cacheman

[mfbukowski]

I don't think you could really consider that specialized. All you need is google to find millions of easy to read hits on what to eat. To me, what's hard about going vegan is my shameless addiction to dairy and omelets. (Man, nothing is better than breakfast of a mushroom, spinach, onion, and feta cheese omlette with rosemary and garlic cooked into the egg and cooked with olive oil. I'll eat it with scratch pancakes covered in apple sauce and cinnamon) It's not my body that's got needs, its my tastebuds.

With luv,

BD

Where did you say your house was again?

[Alan]

One problem I have with the church is it's policy on farming. I object very strongly to the church raising beef in a modern industrial way. I object to it farming for profit rather than for food; and I object in the strongest terms to the church maintaining a bird shooting/hunting business for profit. I passionately believe the Lord is displeased at these activities and that some church leaders will be held accountable for allowing this situation to develop. The church does not exercise good stewardship is these matters even though it has the opportunity to do so.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Alan