Book Of Mormon Evidences

[DBMormon]

Thinking yesterday about a recent comment I made in another thread about being able to prove the church true or false. With that said I would like this thread to contain as many evidences as we can come up with as a group. Put each Evidence in a separate reply.

[DBMormon]

Nehem versus Nahom - Nephi in the BOM travels southward then eastward and as the BOM states arrives at Nahom, where they bury Ishmael

Nehem is found at almost the exact spot that would be Nephi's most likely place of stoppage....

What is at Nehem? a burial ground

[DBMormon]

The Apocalypse of Adam

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/adam.html

Those familiar with the temple will see very common elements here. In this document we are told Adam has three messengers sent to him.

"And I saw three men before me whose likeness I was unable to recognize, since they were not the powers of the God who had created us. They surpassed [...] glory, and [...] men [...] saying to me, "Arise, Adam, from the sleep of death, and hear about the aeon and the seed of that man to whom life has come, who came from you and from Eve, your wife."

"Now then, my son Seth, I will reveal to you the things which those men whom I saw before me at first revealed to me: after I have completed the times of this generation and the years of the generation have been accomplished, then [...] slave [...]. (p.68 blank)"

It goes on and on to discuss what these 3 men taught.

[DBMormon]

Chaismus - While there has been a lot of comments from critics stating that chiasmus is either easy to make or a coincidence in the BOM, Alma chapter 36 is the most beautiful literary example of Chiasmus I know.

(a) My son, give ear to my WORDS (1)

(b) KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of God and ye shall PROSPER IN THE LAND (2)

C) DO AS I HAVE DONE (2)

(d) in REMEMBERING THE CAPTIVITY of our fathers (2);

(e) for they were in BONDAGE (2)

(f) he surely did DELIVER them (2)

(g) TRUST in God (3)

(h) supported in their TRIALS, and TROUBLES, and AFFLICTIONS (3)

(i) shall be lifted up at the LAST DAY (3)

(j) I KNOW this not of myself but of GOD (4)

(k) BORN OF GOD (5)

(l) I sought to destroy the church of God (6-9)

(m) MY LIMBS were paralyzed (10)

(n) Fear of being in the PRESENCE OF GOD (14-15)

(o) PAINS of a damned soul (16)

(p) HARROWED UP BY THE MEMORY OF SINS (17)

(q) I remembered JESUS CHRIST, SON OF GOD (17)

(q') I cried, JESUS, SON OF GOD (18)

(p') HARROWED UP BY THE MEMORY OF SINS no more (19)

(o') Joy as exceeding as was the PAIN (20)

(n') Long to be in the PRESENCE OF GOD (22)

(m') My LIMBS received their strength again (23)

(l') I labored to bring souls to repentance (24)

(k') BORN OF GOD (26)

(j') Therefore MY KNOWLEDGE IS OF GOD (26)

(h') Supported under TRIALS, TROUBLES, and AFFLICTIONS (27)

(g') TRUST in him (27)

(f') He will deliver me (27)

(i') and RAISE ME UP AT THE LAST DAY (28)

(e') As God brought our fathers out of BONDAGE and captivity (28-29)

(d') Retain in REMEMBRANCE THEIR CAPTIVITY (28-29)

(c') KNOW AS I DO KNOW (30)

(b') KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS and ye shall PROSPER IN THE LAND (30)

(a') This is according to his WORD (30).

To me just too awesome..... unable under any regard to see this as dumb luck !!!!!

Edited May 5, 2012 by reelmormon

[DBMormon]

William Smith, the prophet's brother, saying the plates were a gold copper alloy. Then we see that only an alloy of this sort would properly function as a scribal surface. Then on top of that Tumbaga metal from central america seems a perfect fit.

[Tepui]

Chiasmus - While there has been a lot of comments from critics stating that chiasmus is either easy to make or a coincidence in the BOM, Alma chapter 36 is the most beautiful literary example of Chiasmus I know.

It's not just Alma 36. It's the entire book. One prophet with his family, one prophet ending without a family - the Book's crowning central point testifying of Jesus Christ, who can save an individual or a nation, if either prefer.

Yet, The Chinese Philosopher Confucius (c. 551-479 B.C.) was also an expert on chiasmus. This is not unique to any society, such as ancient Israel or branches thereof. But Confucius was not a prophet.

FARMS has also claimed:

Although DNA studies have made links between Native Americans and Asians, these studies in no way invalidate the Book of Mormon despite the loud voices of detractors.

http://maxwellinstit...12&num=1&id=312

This is one of their cop-outs for DNA evidence against the tiny Mesoamerica being the geographical location. If the geography doesn't fit, then explain it away, because the M-geography is still true and takes precedent over the knowledge of all things past, present, and future.

William Smith, the prophet's brother, saying the plates were a gold copper alloy. Then we see that only an alloy of this sort would properly function as a scribal surface. Then on top of that Tumbaga metal from central america seems a perfect fit.

Your posted evidences are confusing the known (Nahom), with the unknown (Mesoamerica). Copper and gold have been found in both North and South America, as well as Central America. It's also been found in China. So-what. People figured out they can hammer metal into plates. Nephi knew of this. Plates of Brass were known and existed long before Nephi, etc. Nothing unique to a society.

But Nahom is very good.

But of course, if there are any names such as the Prophet Omandagus or Onandagus that sound similar to North American names, people flip out claiming The Prophet plagiarized names.

That is, If the Book of Mormon had been restored in Arabia, then Arabians would have claimed Joseph Smith plagiarized the name Nahom.

So you can't win.

Get on your knees and pray for a testimony - or a stronger one - as I'm sure you have.

Cheers.

Edited May 5, 2012 by Tepui

[TAO]

Tepui, I have to admit, that's a wonderful post you wrote there!

Edited May 5, 2012 by TAO

[Log]

Gee. Your take on his post is 180 degrees removed from my take.

[TAO]

Gee. Your take on his post is 180 degrees removed from my take.

Hehe, yeah, that happens. It's funny, because in most threads either you and I nearly perfectly agree or nearly perfectly disagree lol.

On the other hand, with his post, I do disagree with Mesoamerica being a copt-out. But I do agree with his point - it could possibly not be Mesoamerica. But at the same time, it possibly could. I'll leave it open for now =).

Edited May 5, 2012 by TAO

[Kevin Christensen]

A few things I've noticed which I classify as "cause to believe."

First Temple Theology.

Alma as NDE

Use of type scenes and allusion. (See Alan Goff).

King Benjamin's Speech (especially Welch and Szinc, Tvedtnes and Nibley)

Larry Poulsen's case that the description of the Sidon uniquely fits the Grijalva, and how neatly that fits with things like Brant's observations about Zarahemla being located where two language groups met, the relation to the volcanic activity, the presence of the cites of cement to the north, the appropriate rise and fall of civilizations in the right place and time, the match of the description of Limhi's lost explorers ending up at an archeological site vacant at the right time.

Lehi's Qasida.

The desert journey to Nahom and Bountiful.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park

Edited May 6, 2012 by Kevin Christensen

[Doctrine 612]

i am not sure how to put this but when you read the bom you get a strait story not one that counterdicts its self meaning it make perfect sense with the story lines

Edited May 6, 2012 by Doctrine 612

[Kevin Christensen]

A few other things that stand out to me as "cause to believe."

Thomasson and Hawkins on "I Only am Escaped to Tell Thee: Survivor Witness in the Book of Mormon." They discuss a study a pattern evidenced by certain survivors of Nazi and Soviet death camps who felt compelled to survive to bear witness of the experience, and how completely Mormon and Moroni fit this pattern.

I'm also personally very impressed in comparing the epistomology of Alma 32 and Thomas Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions.

Welch's books on the Sermon at the Temple in 3 Nephi as contexualizing and unifying the Sermon on the Mount as a temple discourse and ritual.

Grant Hardy on the distinctive personalities and patterns in Mormon and Moroni as editors.

NIbley's essay on the Liahona compared to arrow divination.

Nibley on Epic Milieu in Ether.

Todd Harris in JBMS on The Journey of the Hero in 1 Nephi.

http://maxwellinstit...=6&num=2&id=146

Alyson Von Feldt on Wisdom Teaching in the Book of Mormon.

http://maxwellinstit...=9&chapterID=74

This paper on metals in the Book of Mormon:

http://www.bmaf.org/node/398

Particularly this bit, about 3/4 the way down.

My point was that if we disregard Arnold Friberg's illustrations and just look at the text, we discover that iron and steel are not described after 150 B.C. at the latest. It is interesting and perhaps supremely important that iron and steel production are only mentioned in the areas that correspond to the Guatemalan Highlands, given a Mesoamerican setting. My mineralogical map showed that this is the only location where the necessary ores are known and that most of Book of Mormon history took place in areas that did not contain iron.

The original manuscript of the Book of Mormon as supporting the eye-witness accounts of its production.

Richard L. Anderson and Larry Morris on the Witnesses.

Richard L. Anderson on the contrasts between other modern gospels and the Book of Mormon. I read the Aquarian Gospel a couple of years ago, and the difference in quality and consistency with ancient contexts is quite revealing.

Colleen Harrison's demonstration that the Book of Mormon makes an excellent 12 step recovery book.

And the general historical trend towards resolution of criticisms that John Clark described at the 2005 Conference on Joseph Smith, particularly compared with the superfical knowledge of the text and current scholarship as demonstrated by vocal critics such as Coe and Dehlin.

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

Edited May 6, 2012 by Kevin Christensen

[bu11fr0g]

Spiritual testimonies.

[Kemara]

Quite some time ago Brant Gardner provided a list of what he considers some of the stronger evidences for the authenticity of the Book of Mormon, would anyone have that list?

[Calm]

[Kemara]

Thats the one, its an impressive list. Thanks Calmoriah

[DBMormon]

Many want to say Joseph made up the Priesthood restoration. Yet Oliver in a letter to Phineas Young states - " have been sensitive on this subject, I admit, but I ought to so be, you would be under the circumstances, had you stood in the presence of John with our departed Brother Joseph, to receive the lesser priesthood, and in the presence of Peter, to receive the greater, and looked down through time, and witness the effects these two must produce--you would feel what you have never felt, were wicked men conspiring to lessen the effects of your testimony on man, after you should have gone to your long sought rest. "

With that said and using common sense knowing He also helped translate the BOM, saw messengers in the Kirtland Temple, Oliver was either 100% in on this fraud or he sincerely felt he had partaken in several key experiences in the early church history that were highly spiritual by nature. If he was in on it then I see no reason not to expose everyone when you have been excommunicated,. Your feelings hurt, you have been offended, you see reason to strike back. Also think of Joseph, what gall to allow Oliver's exit to occur knowing that if it is all a fraud you have likely done yourself in. It just seems very peculiar that the church be a fraud and Oliver make the statements he did having gone through what he did.

Edited May 6, 2012 by reelmormon

[Avatar4321]

How about the evidence the Lord provides? 11 Witnesses and the Holy Spirit.

[livy111us]

Quite some time ago Brant Gardner provided a list of what he considers some of the stronger evidences for the authenticity of the Book of Mormon, would anyone have that list?

In addition to the MADB link that Calmoriah provided, Brant goes into more detail of the subjects he lists in his 2006 FAIR conference address. The list starts on page 6:

http://www.fairlds.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/2006-Brant-Gardner.pdf

[rameumptom]

I recommend my article "Book of Mormon as an Ascension Text", which ties the ascension concept found throughout the BoM with the temple, and various ancient writings not available in Joseph Smith's day.

The Arabian Bountiful found in Oman

"It came to pass" as a constant not only in the BoM, but just as frequent on Mayan stele

Nephi's Psalm closely fitting the construct of a hymn in the Community Rule scroll (Dead Sea Scroll)

Reformed Egyptian and Egyptian Demotic.

The hands Ammon cuts off the enemies and being shown to the king as proof of the event ties in nicely with the Egyptian "Battle of Megiddo" Papyri that details the hands of the dead being brought to the Pharaoh as proof of the number of dead enemies.

BoM prophesying the forthcoming writings of Israel to the world, and we now have the Dead Sea Scrolls as partial evidence of this.

Writings concerning the "Interpreters", along with descriptions in D&C 130 describe modern computer devices and Internet. Includes password/keyword, being careful not to look for things one ought not search for, etc.

[MAsh]

My book, "Of Faith and Reason," lists nearly 100 different "evidences." http://bookstore.fairlds.org/product.php?id_product=1166

[Muc'ul Ajwalil]

There are quite a few evidences of the Book of Mormon. The most important being the Spiritual Witness of its truth.

Jesus visiting what was the USA, Mexico, Guatemala, Central America, Chile, Brasil, or Peru, among other places, as well as where he visited the Ten Tribes (in the northern countries) is icing on the cake.

It is fun to speculate though. I would give the probabilities as 65 percent Mesoamerica, 20 percent Andean, 5 percent Heartland, 5 percent Hemispheric, and 5 percent untested theories (have not seen anything on Brasil or in Central America south of Honduras).

[DBMormon]

Jesus visiting what was the USA, Mexico, Guatemala, Central America, Chile, Brasil, or Peru, among other places, as well as where he visited the Ten Tribes (in the northern countries) is icing on the cake

Are you speaking of Queticoatal? if so there is no connection between him and jesus....

[cdowis]

Are you speaking of Queticoatal? if so there is no connection between him and jesus....

You are absolutely certain, are you. I remember the book "He Walked the Americas" (written by a then nonLDS).

One example, he is symbolized by the serpent, as also mentioned in the BOM -- but, of course, that is "just another coincidence".

Yes, we know that certain individuals took that name upon themselves, but that is not uncommon for individuals to pretend to be the Chosen One.

Edited May 8, 2012 by cdowis

[DBMormon]

No doubt there is a record from indians about a great white god. But if you actually pull out the sources and read them in context, they have no connection to Christ's visit to the Americas at the time recorded in the BOM. It is a matter of forcing parrallels where thre isn't a real case.

Ask Brant Gardner next time you see him on here

Edited May 8, 2012 by reelmormon