Surveys From A Large Ysa Ward In A High-Mormon Density Area

[rongo]

Wow! I go to post in a thread, and it becomes locked while I post! I didn't even read beyond the first page . . .

My father is in his seventh year as a YSA bishop in Gilbert, AZ (a high LDS population center). I think many will find some surveys they have done in their ward to be interesting on many levels. It's interesting to me to think about the disparity between what both boys and girls report in the surveys vs. their behavior and actions. There is also a certain level of "survey bias:" kids answer what they think they should, even when it obviously contradicts their actions and behavior.

This first one was from the boys only. Sorry about formatting issues ---- I did the best I could to clean it up, but I copied from Word docs and a .pdf:

Are you dating for fun or with marriage in mind? (Almost all said with marriage in mind - a few said both. One said for fun only)

Are you ready to get married? (1/3 said no, 2/3 said yes. One weird answer).

What does it mean when you ask a girl out? (I’d like to get to know you).

What do guys think girls think when they’re asked out? (That the guy likes her).

What is on your “nice” list? (Nice smelling hair, laughs at my jokes, fun, sense of humor, spontaneous, sings, wants to be a mother, honest with me, open to changes in dates, cooking, smile, smells good, athletic, lets me know she is interested).

What would you like but it isn't a deal-breaker? (Cook, can sing, love to travel, likes new experiences, responsible with finances, musical talent, sense of humor, ambitious, kind heart).

What do you first notice about a girl? (Smile, confidence, eyes, hair, body, demeanor, is she happy?)

What keeps you interested in a girl? (showing interest in me, conversation, fun to be with, can think for herself, confident, smart)

What makes you lose interest? (Girls who talk about themselves too much, negativity, too proud of her looks, doesn't listen to me, if she doesn't answer my calls, moves too fast, lack of excitement, awkward silence, materialistic).

What can girls in our ward improve on? (don’t make out with everyone - we talk, come to ward activities, don't travel in packs or cliques, participate in Sunday School, actually talk to guys in the ward - too many of the gins don't/won't/ can't talk to us)

Is there someone in the ward you would like to go out with? Why haven’t you asked her? (Most said yes - girls say they don't date in the ward. Why not? Awkward at church, would like to but they run in packs, they aren't coming to activities, I’m in the friend zone but would like to change that. Many seem out of my league. Not sure if she likes me or not)

Pet peeves or turnoffs? (Gossip, stuck on an ex, has to have their best girl friend with them all the time. NOT Modest. String sandals, poor hygiene, complainers, DRAMA! Fake, lip gloss 24/7, too much perfume, play the victim, if you whine about not being asked out we don't want to ask you out. Girls who won't move outside their little group of friends)

Age? How old must girls be to ask out (Almost unanimously, it doesn’t matter).

Do you like it if girls ask you out? Do you drive? Pay? (YES. But the guys want to drive and pay. Only a few said that they prefer asking first. Most said it is ok for the first date but after that they want to be in charge. One guy said No it is a red flag).

Average number of dates monthly (Range from never to 5)

Type of girl you prefer? (Physically fit, active, not easily offended, strong testimony, dresses up for church, happy, friendly, simple, no heavy makeup, long hair, girly, openly spiritual)

What does high maintenance mean to you? (Likes expensive things, can't do anything by herself, too prissy, self-centered, cries a lot, needs too much attention, gets depressed if she doesn't get attention, too concerned with

fashion, gets her nails done at least weekly, demands attention, whines, complains about everything)

Comments and Concerns:

Not enough of the sisters in the ward attend ward activities. They aren't at activities so that we can get to know

them.

Be kind to everyone, we are watching you.

It's ok to say no if you aren't interested.

Too many fall into victim mentality. They think they are entitled to dates because they are righteous. Yet they are

unwilling to learn some basic social skills.

Lack of confidence. So many of you would be more attractive if you would only change your posture.

Way too many girls seem to want the company of their girlfriends over a dude.

Let us know what you would like to do on a date. There is a reason I'm not on the activity committee!

The second one was conducted a year later, and is much more interesting (and revealing), I think. The boys and girls wrote questions for each other to answer. Priesthood and Relief Society were used to write responses:

BRETHREN QUESTIONS FOR THE WOMEN TO ANSWER

What are your top three picks (attributes) in men?

What are their expectations for someone that they would potentially marry?

What are some good ways to ask a girl out without coming on too strong?

What is the most important quality we can develop?

Why do you play games? Let’s be real!

Why play games?

What is with the games?

Why do we always have to take all the initiative?

Why don’t girls say what they mean? Why do they always have hidden meanings in what they say?

In the ward, some of the sisters seem to have an air of superiority or we’re too cool to socialize with you. What do they brethren need to do to break through the glass ceiling just to be considered friends?

How come girls can’t just say, dating the person, it isn’t working out instead of torturing the guy by not calling them back and avoiding us all together? Or if it’s a game you’re playing, why play the game so much? Be honest and open!

What do they look for to get past the 2^nd or 3^rd date?

Why can’t you be straightforward?

What kind of activities do you want to do on a date?

Why not show more interest?

What do you find most attractive about a young man? (Testimony, looks, personality, popularity, background, good job, education, age?) Especially when you first meet him?

Will you not beat around the bush and tell us if you are having a good time when we take you out? We don’t want to waste our time and money.

Why do some girls make up excuses NOT to go out on dates? Or why do they say yes and then cancel when they hear about something else going on that night?

How is a guy supposed to know when he’s too aggressive? When he’s trying to hard? And how should he know when to stop?

How soon after a first date or the first few dates is it not “overbearing” to call you or hangout with you more frequently? How can we not scare you off?

What kinds of things should a guy bring up or ask to break the ice or engage in a conversation?

What are you’re actual emotions and thoughts when you are asked out on a date?

When asked what girls look for in a guy, they inevitably say “a sense of humor,” Is this really the case? I’m convinced it’s a lie!

Which hints mean what? What hints do you give to let a guy know to just quit or keep pursuing?

SISTERS ANSWERS:

What is preventing you from forming a serious relationship that will result in marriage?

I can’t even get a date to let it build into a serious relationship. Guys just don’t find me attractive. L

A boy that likes me enough to take me there, I guess.

Currently in a serious relationship. I rarely would be asked out, I don’t do the “hang out” thing and I don’t date a guy more than once or twice if there is not attraction from the get-go. I don’t want to lead them on.

I don’t go out on dates. I don’t get asked out…it makes a girl wonder “What’s wrong with me? What’s my problem? What can I change or improve?”

Nothing, except I never am asked on dates, so there is no way to begin forming any relationships.

Why are guys not fulfilling their role in the relationship? I think any girl in the Relief Society is willing to do their part in the relationships. GUYS: ask us out, all of us!

I have not been on a date (or two) with a guy that would help me be able to fulfill my goal of eternal marriage.

I am attracted to a lot of guys but not impressed by too many!

Finding a compatible partner to form a serious relationship with.

That boys won’t ask me out so I can see if I want a relationship with them.

That men won’t grow up and take responsibility.

I am trying to get over past relationships.

Just trying to find the right guy.

They guys don’t ask.

I am currently in a serious relationship, but when I try to think of what was preventing me before it would be the responsibility that comes along with it. I don’t always feel strong enough to handle all the commitment to another person.

I am a convert: The lack of being approached. I am quite shy when it comes to men and it’s hard to approach Mormon men even to just be friends. I feel that there is a lot of pressure on women to be more outgoing than the men.

Cautious choosing is what is taking longer. I don’t want a marriage to end in divorce. So with living the gospel, prayer and setting healthy boundaries, it really helps you and the relationship grow healthy and you can get to know whom you are dating.

A date is all that is preventing me. I feel that I am ready for a serious relationship if a man to come along and ask me out.

A date! I feel that I am open and ready in my life for a serious relationship; I just need a worthy guy!

I never get asked out on a date….no further explanation needed.

Finding the right man! Or waiting for the right man to find me. I admit, I’m not as outgoing as I should be; it’s hard for me to meet new people.

Grant is too chicken to ask me out, even though he already knows I like him and he feels the same. Why would he be afraid?

All guys want to hang out with me, not date me. So many guys say they don’t date girls in their singles wards. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Singles wards were created so we could date and get married!

Recently I’ve been on several dates with someone I like but I think he’s afraid of taking it to the next level.

Spiritual issues that come up later on or don’t come up such as pornography, addictions, etc.

Dumb boys!

First I need a guy that is willing to pursue a relationship. Guys need to be more confident in asking girls out.

Haven’t found anyone that I can “connect” with and have similar goals and expectations in life and relationships.

I haven’t found the right guy.

Chivalry is dead!

Chivalry is really dead!

SISTER QUESTIONS FOR THE MEN TO ANSWER

Would you ever be attracted to or ask an overweight girl on a date?

Why the group dates? One on one is better. It’s the only way to get to know each other!!!!!

Why is it so difficult to actually ask a girl on a date? I know there is a fear of rejection, but most girls will go out with a guy if they ask, even if they are not initially interested.

I don’t have a question for the men, but I’d like to tell the brethren NOT to be afraid! Ask us out…we’ll say yes. J

Why are guys shy or scared to ask girls out on dates? We will not say no even if we wanted to.

Why are men afraid of rejection, when that is but a moment in eternity?

What are the men afraid of?

Gentlemen please don’t be afraid of rejection. If you get turned down once, try again. Sometimes we’re just busy. Once you realize one girl’s not interested, go on to ask out and get to know the next girl.

What’s with always letting your friends influence the relationship? Just because everyone has an opinion doesn’t mean you have to share it and cause contention in a potential eternal relationship.

Why do you always have to “hang out”? I enjoy hanging out but in reality, girls are girls and like to be taken out.

When are you going to realize that there is no ‘hanging out” in the celestial kingdom? You need to be married to have eternal increase. And hey, you’re not getting any younger!

Is it really that important to look like a “Barbie Doll” to be considered attractive or to be asked on a date?

What is the best way to let a guy know you’re not interested in a serious relationship? How can you stay friends afterwards?

What is one quality in a girl that attracts you to her?

What’s taking you so long! Suck it up and just ask us already. J

Why do you always want it to be a “group date”? Why never one-on-one?

What do you find that is so hard about asking a girl out on a date?

Dates should be simple, fun and creative (no $$$ is needed)

What is something that girls do that you really do not like and would not want to date a girl with that quality? Most girls do not realize what we are doing wrong.

What advise would you give us about dating seriously?

How can we be more clear or understand guys better?

What would be the best way to meet someone when after church socializing (munch & mingle) is uncomfortable? Most people munch but don’t MINGLE with new people!

Do you feel like there are certain milestones or accomplishments you have to meet before you can get serious about dating? Eternally, I don’t think we care where you are in life as long as you have goals and ambition to meet them.

Why is it such a big deal to ask a girl on a date instead of wanting to hang out? How are we suppose to know if you are interested in us?

Does it bother you when the girl never contributes with date ideas or to even offer to pay for dates?

What qualities are sincerely most important to them in a girlfriend? What keeps you from asking a girl out?

Does age matter to you? Does education matter to you?

BRETHREN QUESTIONS FOR THE BISHOPRIC

What questions about dating relationships or marriage would you like the Bishopric to answer?

Knowing when it’s time to get married.

How can I feel more prepared for marriage?

What is the most important quality you value in your spouse?

The importance of financial planning now and in the future?

Why does it have to be hard, it should be easy but it’s not!

How do I get a girl that I like to like me?

What can we do as a ward to become friends with some of the sisters? There are many groups who have known each other for years. Making it harder for the new people.

How do you overcome the fears? After prayer, fasting and asking while in the Temple, (and you know this girl is a good girl) how do you move forward and put aside fears and unsurety? How can you discover an answer between fears of being scared?

How mature and responsible do you need to be to get married?

Dating tips and ideas?

PLEASE ANSWER: How long is too long to wait for a girl to decide what she wants?

Good date ideas?

When dating what are the best signs and feelings that you know you and the partner are going to make it as an eternal marriage?

Could you just say a few words telling everyone that they should not be afraid to date? Try, trust. People get hurt, it happens but move on and don’t be afraid!

Can you clarify the difference between a “celestial marriage covenant” and a “celestial marriage relationship?”

How did you ensure you married someone with a strong testimony of the gospel?

What makes most people in this religion think they are ready so young?

I want to hear about your experience as a trial of faith.

I’m getting old, is it okay to settle?

SISTERS QUESTIONS FOR THE BISHOPRIC

Is it the girl’s fault if they do not date very often? Is it the girl’s responsibility to pursue the guy?

How do you keep your thoughts clean and pure while dating?

Is it appropriate to read scriptures and pray with someone you are dating? Or someone you are engaged to?

How do you get over the irritating habits of your spouse and don’t let them bother you?

What is the most important thin you need to make a marriage successful?

How did you know it was right? Did you have any doubts?

What are some ways to encourage and keep channels of communication open?

How do you keep the love and passion growing in a marriage?

What was it that attracted you to your wife?

One spouse can give their relationship everything while the other doesn’t. What can be done about that?

Why would one feel so scared to get married at all? (to the extent that one has dreams of flaking out at the alter) Is this normal?

I have a friend that loves an inactive boy. She feels he’ll eventually come around. Is it worth the risk?

How do you date someone who is divorced or has children?

Why are the brethren so inclined to “hand out” and so reluctant to “ask out”? The more you ask the higher your chances are to get a yes?

How can we keep from getting discouraged when it seems everyone else around us is dating?

Why don’t’ guys ask the girls out on dates? I didn’t realize it was the girl’s responsibility.

Guys should not be intimidated by women. Just ask! We are complicated and don’t say what is on our mind because boys will be scared by what we say.

Why do guys always ask me where the party is? Or want to hang out with us? When are they going to start asking us for an actual date?

Why do most singles (boys and girls) now days believe that love = butterflies? Keep asking the girls out! Eventually a girl will say yes. Dating is a catch 22. Sometimes we come on too strong which is creepy. Sometimes we come on to reluctant and seem not interested.

How does a person know what kind of physical relationship to have? Example, when should you have a 1^st kiss? How much is too much? How serious should you be with how physical you should be?

As an aging woman in the church, and being considered “old” and single, what will happen if I am not given the opportunity to marry in this life?

I don’t know as much about a lot of gospel subjects. Would it make it hard to be married before I study more in the gospel?

What would you suggest to someone who is focusing not enough on their own wants and needs while dating and is focused too much on someone else.

Is marriage really as big of a deal as we all blow it up to be, really?

How do you avoid being the best friend and get into the girl friend zone? Because I can’t figure it out.

What are good signs that a guy will make a good boyfriend or husband?

What important qualities to look for? Red flags we should be aware of? Tell us how to work through problems or disagreements once in a serious relationship.

Where have all the good men gone? Why do guys play games?

Why do guys not try to get to know us?

Why don’t boys ask girls on dates?

[rongo]

One major thing that struck me as I read these was how both men and women seemed to be talking completely past each other. The claims made by both "sides" can't both be true (e.g., we would ask out, but women always turn us down; we would accept, but they never ask, etc.). Well, other than the fact that "perception is reality" ----- the perception is reality to that person, even if outside observers would disagree.

It's a thorny problem (large numbers of young men and women who for whatever reasons aren't successfully dating and getting married, even while claiming that they want nothing more than to do that), and one that society in general and the Church in particular seem to be struggling more than ever before with, that's for sure.

[Calm]

how both men and women seemed to be talking completely past each other

Is it any surprise that communication is the number one problem among marrieds when there is a good chance that this is why many don't seem to be able to even get as far as marriage.

[Brian 2.0]

I was a member of a YSA ward throughout the whole YSA time and then into a mid-singles group before I got married at 33.

From my completely biased male perspective... I would hear girls say a lot "why don't guys as us girls out?" when I knew they had been asked out by people in the ward, but it wasn't the guys they wanted to ask them out. So i always turned it back and said, "I think you mean to say, 'Why don't the guys I want to go out with ask me out?'"

To women's defense, the guys in the ward weren't asking girls out left and right by any account. To the guy defense, if a guy WAS interested in a girl, he would ask her out.

Why aren't guys asking out more girls? Because they just aren't that into them. If they were, they'd be asking them out.

[silvermoon383]

I can second (triple?) the issue of "guys aren't asking us out = the right guys aren't asking". I also struggled not to shout "liar" when I saw all the responses from the sisters about "go ahead and ask, we'll say yes" and "we'll let you know if we're not interested." I can say without exaggeration that my last 5 of the last 6 date requests I've made got responses of "I can't, I'm busy" or "I can't, I'm going out of town" or "I can't, I'm working" or "I can't I sprained my ankle" and finally, "I can't, I have to go take care of my siblings". Yeah, rejection may be momentary, but when you get a long string like that what in the world are us guys supposed to feel? I've been trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and chalk my bad luck due to a string of legitimate bad timing, but I still can not shake the feeling that those were all the new "I can't, I'm washing my hair".

[Blah]

Be kind to everyone, we are watching you.

Anyone else a little creeped out by this one? Yeesh.

[BlueDreams]

I thought it was hilarious to read through these. I could so see them being mentioned in my ward. Generally, I take people for their word. My guess is that there is a number of girls who don't get dates ever (or very rarely) and there's a number of guys who are consistently rejected. The problem, to me is shown in those who are asked out. My cousin was a girl who had no problem getting a date (before she married). Which is ironic, cuz she was a bonified heart breaker and it was fairly known. I was on a double date and the guys I was with litterally asked me if she was a player. Thing is, she could afford it. Guys were constantly asking her out: She's gorgeous (in the all-american sense of blond hair, blue eyes, thin, etc), smart, deceptively quiet (I say deceptively because it assumed a character that just wasn't there), and has a ton of guyfriends. Dry spell of being asked out for her were a few weeks. For me a dry spell could be a couple months. For others I've heard of up to 6 months to a year without being asked out.

My personal guess is that guys are asking out....they're just asking out the same smaller chunk of the ward. Asking certain people more like my cousin or myself...people that can afford to be picky about going on a date (my cuz) or prefer to be (me). Dates aren't distributed equally throughout the ward. If it were, no one would have a complaint.

As a disclaimer: i accept dates more than I did once upon a time. It's very rare I outright say no (more likely, I'll postpone if I'm busy). That said, most of my dates don't come from my ward. I think in the last year, I went on 4 dates (2 different guys) from my ward in a ward that has a 2:1 ratio of men to women (yes, there's twice as many men as women in our single's ward). So if someone relies on the ward as the dating pool, that could be a problem in and of itself.

With luv,

BD

[rongo]

My guess is that there is a number of girls who don't get dates ever (or very rarely) and there's a number of guys who are consistently rejected. The problem, to me is shown in those who are asked out.

My personal guess is that guys are asking out....they're just asking out the same smaller chunk of the ward. Asking certain people more like my cousin or myself...people that can afford to be picky about going on a date (my cuz) or prefer to be (me). Dates aren't distributed equally throughout the ward. If it were, no one would have a complaint.

This is a very astute observation, Blue. I think a large part of the problem is that boys tend to ask the same girls out (that is, that a small number of girls get most of the market share of proposed dates), as you mentioned. My father tells me that many/most boys and girls have unrealistic fantasies and standards of beauty, skills, and personality, and they "refuse to drop their standards" for mere mortals. The problem is that the person they are "waiting" for doesn't exist (beautiful, sensitive, talented, wealthy, deeply spiritual and intellectual, etc.). Most of us fall somewhere in between . . .

So if someone relies on the ward as the dating pool, that could be a problem in and of itself.

Another good observation. I emphasize to the youth in my ward that dating in high school should not imply *any* commitment at all. Kids think and act like a huge commitment is implied in asking a girl out (or accepting an invitation). Kids should be going on a number of inexpensive, non-commital dates and beginning to form their ideas for what they are and aren't looking for post-mission or after graduation. But if a boy were to ask lots of girls from his stake/neighborhood out, he would be seen as a "player." Even if he were simply taking a variety of girls out bowling or to a play or whatever. When I ask youth what would happen if a boy were to ask out several girls in seminary, they recoil in shock. It simply isn't done!

Intra-ward dating is tricky because of this (but shouldn't be, in my view ----- but it is, no denying that). You essentially have to pick your shots carefully, because you would be perceived as a "player" if you were to try to date several different girls.

I have three boys, the oldest of whom is eleven. My wife and I are going to instill in our boys that they should take a variety of girls out on completely non-commital dates. Even girls they aren't particularly attracted to. There is value in simply spending time and just having a good time with someone, and it will mean *a lot* to many girls who fall outside of that small market share. We need to get over the thought that a boy who takes a lot of girls out (or a girl who accepts dates from someone she's not interested in) is being mean and "stringing along."

[BCSpace]

Wow. That's a lot more comprehensive than the SSA survey was.

[Duncan]

I thought it was hilarious to read through these. I could so see them being mentioned in my ward. Generally, I take people for their word. My guess is that there is a number of girls who don't get dates ever (or very rarely) and there's a number of guys who are consistently rejected. The problem, to me is shown in those who are asked out. My cousin was a girl who had no problem getting a date (before she married). Which is ironic, cuz she was a bonified heart breaker and it was fairly known. I was on a double date and the guys I was with litterally asked me if she was a player. Thing is, she could afford it. Guys were constantly asking her out: She's gorgeous (in the all-american sense of blond hair, blue eyes, thin, etc), smart, deceptively quiet (I say deceptively because it assumed a character that just wasn't there), and has a ton of guyfriends. Dry spell of being asked out for her were a few weeks. For me a dry spell could be a couple months. For others I've heard of up to 6 months to a year without being asked out.

My personal guess is that guys are asking out....they're just asking out the same smaller chunk of the ward. Asking certain people more like my cousin or myself...people that can afford to be picky about going on a date (my cuz) or prefer to be (me). Dates aren't distributed equally throughout the ward. If it were, no one would have a complaint.

As a disclaimer: i accept dates more than I did once upon a time. It's very rare I outright say no (more likely, I'll postpone if I'm busy). That said, most of my dates don't come from my ward. I think in the last year, I went on 4 dates (2 different guys) from my ward in a ward that has a 2:1 ratio of men to women (yes, there's twice as many men as women in our single's ward). So if someone relies on the ward as the dating pool, that could be a problem in and of itself.

With luv,

BD

I saw a poster on facebook somewhat recently about occupying the singles ward with 99% of the guys asking out 1% of the women, had to laugh. When I came off my mission this girl, who I gathered hadn't many dating opportunities, basically said she would do herself a mischief if I didn't go out with er. So I talked to my sister and she was like yeah I guess go for it and honestly it was one of the funnest dates I have ever been on

Edited March 20, 2012 by Duncan

[BlueDreams]

Intra-ward dating is tricky because of this (but shouldn't be, in my view ----- but it is, no denying that). You essentially have to pick your shots carefully, because you would be perceived as a "player" if you were to try to date several different girls.

Just a clarification. The reason my cousin was a player wasn't that she went on tons of dates. i joked we were two different manifestations of the same problem: we are independent and non-conformists. So for her that meant she'd date plenty, she'd date a lot, but if a man wanted more than a casual dating relationship she'd drop him. For me it means quick calls. I wouldn't go on dates guys if I weren't interested even a little because I believed that the majority of men would not, in the end prefer what and who I was. Either way it meant that neither of us attached to a guy as easily and most men simply weren't worth it. It wasn't tied to the amount of dates, but what we did with those dates that gave the impression.

For your kids, that sounds very good to me. In highschool, dating should be more non-challant, and maybe a little bit more so in college as well. Dating has become such a serious game that it's avoided for fear people will think it's more serious than it is.

Duncan: one of my best friends started by him trying to date me. I love dating from time to time, if only for the friendships I've gained from them. Some people are just fun!

With luv,

BD

[cinepro]

FWIW, here's a scientific way to "Find a Soul Mate", as found in Wired Magazine:

Find a Soul Mate

There’s a probabilistic approach to finding the love of your life, and it even has a name: satisficing, a combination of satisfy and suffice. OK, technically, satisficing refers to getting a good enough outcome when you’re lacking complete information about your options. But isn’t dating like that? According to Peter Todd, professor of informatics and cognitive science at Indiana University, the question always comes down to this: “Do you keep searching and hope something better will come along, or do you stop searching when you find something that looks pretty good?”

In the face of this conundrum, the best strategy for picking a mate is to date enough people to establish some baseline standards, then settle down with the next person you meet who exceeds the bar. According to Todd, you should have a baseline after dating roughly 12 people. He’s dubbed this theory the Twelve-Bonk Rule, and it can also be applied to picking the right employee or choosing a home. So, if you’ve dated fewer than 12 people, you should feel free to keep looking. If you’ve had 30 relationships, odds are you’re being too picky. Quit obsessing over your new paramour’s dorky laugh.—Judy Dutton

I'd love to have this taught in General Conference, or at least a YSA fireside.

Edited March 20, 2012 by cinepro

[Duncan]

FWIW, here's a scientific way to "Find a Soul Mate", as found in Wired Magazine:

I'd love to have this taught in General Conference, or at least a YSA fireside.

I think Pres. Uchtdorf taught something similar in a CES broadcast a few years back but I could be wrong

[Log]

Yep. God doesn't do anything - it's all chemicals, math, and social hierarchy.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Log

[Pahoran]

FWIW, here's a scientific way to "Find a Soul Mate", as found in Wired Magazine:

I'd love to have this taught in General Conference, or at least a YSA fireside.

It might need to be amended somewhat. I don't see any General Conference speakers recommending that LDS singles adopt a "Twelve-Bonk Rule."

Regards,

Pahoran

[Duncan]

I just want a lady who has been through stuff ie not sheltered, share same beliefs, kind to others and herself, not a drama queen, not miserable, has a solid testimony and works on it as not in "I know the church is true because of the wonderful friends I made at the dance last night" and has a sense of humour and attractive. I have a son so they would be a step Mom and so I hope things work out

Edited March 20, 2012 by Duncan

[Buckeye]

The best dating advice I ever received was from a BYU accounting 101 professor - Norm Nemrow.

To paraphrase, finding a spouse is like finding a parking spot. You drive up to the front of the lot, but all those spots are taken. So you start driving around. Sometimes you get your hopes up that you've found a really good one, but then as you get closer you realize there is a mini-cooper parked there that you couldn't see from a distance. [Hate you!] So you keep driving. Then you start to realize that the spots you'd passed on earlier are now no longer available and you start to panic. [Man, I could have had that spot! And now I've wasted 20 minutes and, like $2.00 in gas] Finally you settle on a decent spot towards the middle-back of the lot. Not the ideal location, but at least its not right next to a shopping cart return cage. Walking into the store, you then notice that the perfect spot which was occupied has now opened up, but there are two other cars battling to get into it.

[rongo]

The best one I heard along those lines was from my best friend's dad, growing up in southeastern Idaho.

"Dating is spending money on someone else's wife."

Of course, the spirit of *that* sentiment runs counter to our attempts to help kids go out on a limb and date more . . .

[thesometimesaint]

Best advice I ever heard on dating and marriage. Before the ceremony keep your eyes wide open, after the ceremony keep them half shut.

[mbh26]

I preferred a girl to say, "No," if she weren't interested in me. Dating for fun was a waste of money from my perspective. It wasn't any fun for me, that was for sure.

When I went to BYU, it really seemed that most of the girls weren't very interested in marriage. Trying to slowly ease them along and persuade them to do something they didn't want to do was only going to lead to heartache and wasted time. That was the bottom line. They wanted to date but not marry. I wanted to marry and saw no purpose in just being friends.

[rongo]

I agree with this, in college (but not in high school --- I think kids should date purely for fun in high school, with no pressure to secure a later marriage with that person). I was also pretty much a "dating is a means to an end" guy. If my wife died and I was "back in the market," I would be hurting. I wouldn't want to go through the dating game again, especially not as "fun."

[Garden Girl]

Okay, how about a few words from the Old Woman? I'd like to make a few comments for both the guys and gals, and particularly for single wards..

First, I want to share my experience as a 19 year old BYU freshman... I'm going to be frank, but please don't let me give you the idea I was superficial... I had depth, yet I also learned a great lesson. I was the typical blond, blue-eyed, tanned California surfer girl... in high school I was a cheerleader for three years. I dated mostly boys from school vs Church. The boys from school were what would be today considered "jocks," but were really nice... and my Church standards did enter into who I dated. I avoided the party types. I was outgoing with a good sense of humor, active both at Church and school.

When I got to BYU, I lived in the dorm and a lot of the fellows ate in our cafeteria so it wasn't hard to get to know a wide variety of both boys and girls. The lesson I learned was that some of the fellows, and girls, that were not particularly outgoing or good looking had wonderful personalities. They couldn't depend on their looks, so they had developed personality, sense of humor, keen minds and other qualities. Sitting and eating in the cafeteria and listening to the fellows and girls opened my eyes to how wonderful a person can be if we take the time to look past a first impression of someone who was shy, introverted, not particularly handsome, etc., and see the terrific, fun person that they really can be... thus, when some of the more shy boys asked me out I gladly accepted and went out and had great evenings. That was the lesson... to give people a chance and look inward...

There's things a fellow or girl can do to be more attractive... personal hygiene plays a big part... is your hair clean and attractively styled, rather than just hanging. Are your clothes clean and neat, modest, not too tight.

If your skin is bad (as we all experience from time to time), there are products to clear it up... Use them.

If you are carrying some extra pounds... get rid of them. A good healthy, sensible diet will melt off pounds from a younger person. Forego the fast food, pizza, fried foods, etc etc. Take a good, honest look in the mirror and if you don't like what you see, do something about it. (Not everyone will be slim, but you can drop many a pound and firm up).

Exercise... get physically fit. Walking is a great way.

Stand up straight and walk with confidence. Extend yourself to others and you'll be surprised at the positive response (this is not always easy for a shy person, but try).

Read, develop some special interests and hobbies, keep up with current events, interesting subjects... learn to be a good conversationalist. (Again, not always easy, but make the effort). When I traveled with my husband, we invariably were in a "dinner" situation at tables of eight, seated man-woman-man-woman (not next to our spouse). I had many a "dinner partner" that I had to converse with and am happy to say some of the most enjoyable evenings were talking with complete strangers around such tables.

Yes I know, these are all obvious suggestions, but they are true, and will go a long ways in helping young men and women be at their healthiest, and will help instill individual confidence.

from the beach on a windy, rainy afternoon... Me and Bobby-cat ... GG

Edited March 20, 2012 by Garden Girl

[mbh26]

I wouldn't want to go through the dating game again, especially not as "fun."

Like the movie singles ward, the best way to encourage couples to stay together is to make them visit the singles ward a few Sundays.

[The Nehor]

I've been trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and chalk my bad luck due to a string of legitimate bad timing, but I still can not shake the feeling that those were all the new "I can't, I'm washing my hair".

The best response to this is, "Oh, never mind then, I only date girls with clean hair."