I Want To Move To Utah, But Can I Avoid The Mormons?

[jskains]

Yeah, interesting read of my post. I am very LDS and moved to Utah. I am observing others who commented in the forums I was reading. Not sure how you read into my post that way, but sorry or he confusion.

JMS

[BCSpace]

"We like the Utah area, the clean atmosphere, the family nature, the healthy environment, the overall safeness of the communities. But is there a way to avoid the Mormons?"

You can't avoid them Marmons. Tracting requirements ensures that.

[Garden Girl]

Hello jskains...

Are you serious? Utah is Mormon Country... deal with it or don't go there. That said, there are numerous areas not as LDS-populated. You just have to find them.

OTOH, my neighbors looove me... always telling me what a good neighbor I am... well, why not? I'm clean, keep my home and yards in good repair, don't throw loud parties on the weekends, a good friend, not nosy, don't have barking dog(s), don't try to push my religion on them (asked my neighbor, who has an active LDS cousin that visits, if he was interesting in knowing more about my faith... he said no... so, we just talked of other things and I've never brought it up again). I probably tell him more about my faith just by my actions, which they apparently appreciate...

GG

[cinepro]

I guess the question, other than why people want to move to Utah to avoid the Mormons, is why the bigotry, bad attitudes, and fingerpointing is allowed for Mormons, but very little for anyone else?

I suspect it's a matter of scope. Areas with a high concentration of an ethnicity or religion tend to be only a few blocks or neighborhoods. They're easy to avoid. If you want to move to LA and avoid Koreans, don't move to Koreatown. If you want to avoid homosexuals, avoid West Hollywood. There are still hundreds of other neighborhoods and communities to choose from.

With Utah, the perception is that the whole dang state is "Mormon", and people moving there may be leery of finding themselves in a neighborhood where they're the only non-Mormon. So they probably aren't aware of the cities with many non-Mormons, or the alcohol-related recreational oppurtunities available to them.

It's perfectly natural to want to live around people that are similar to you. It's not bigotry or prejiduce; it's just the way it is.

[jskains]

Hello jskains...

Are you serious? Utah is Mormon Country... deal with it or don't go there. <_< That said, there are numerous areas not as LDS-populated. You just have to find them.

OTOH, my neighbors looove me... always telling me what a good neighbor I am... well, why not? I'm clean, keep my home and yards in good repair, don't throw loud parties on the weekends, a good friend, not nosy, don't have barking dog(s), don't try to push my religion on them (asked my neighbor, who has an active LDS cousin that visits, if he was interesting in knowing more about my faith... he said no... so, we just talked of other things and I've never brought it up again). I probably tell him more about my faith just by my actions, which they apparently appreciate...

GG

I am starting to wonder if people are reading my post or skimming it.

JMS

[blackstrap]

Some read like they were skipping rocks on the water.Should do like the carpenters motto,measure twice cut once.

[selek1]

Mostly due to ignorance. It is kinda funny that Salt Lake City is about 50% Mormon. So if you want to live in a Utah city with the fewest Mormons percentage wise move to the heart of "Mormonland".

We saw a lot of this sort of thing in Colorado- Californians who fled the oppressive regulations, high prices, and stagnant business environment.

They'd hardly finished planting their water-hungry golf-course yards before setting about to make Colorado as neat, tidy, and orderly as the very "society" they'd fled.

This, of course, confused the native and the old settlers no end.

It boils down to the unspoken sentiment "I want all the benefits of your society and culture while retaining all the perks and mores of mine".

Edited March 3, 2012 by selek1

[bluebell]

I am starting to wonder if people are reading my post or skimming it.

JMS

I think it's the title of the OP that's getting them. Perhaps if it used quotation marks people would better be able to realize that the words aren't your own.

[Garden Girl]

I am starting to wonder if people are reading my post or skimming it.

JMS

I'm sorry... I just went back and re-read your OP more carefully... guess I started "skimming" the last couple of sentences and missed the gist... mea culpa.

GG

[Jeff K.]

Utah's a great place, good people. It has its quirks but then living in California which is by far the weirdest state in the Union (close second for Oregon), I have little I would complain about when I look around at my fellow Californians and what they have done to the land and the quirkiness that I have to deal with.

[frankenstein]

I admit I did not address the concern of the OP.

Why the animosity, I would say because people do not understand that Utah is not much more weird (not Austin Texas weird) that many other places.

There are counties in Texas, one county wherein the SuperIntendant of the Public schools is quoted as saying "I am going to run the gays and the mormons out of here"; here being employment with the public school system. Anyway, this county is a DRY county, yes, the good god fearing protestant peoples of the County voted to be completely dry.

[selek1]

One of my good friends (and God-father to my children) lives out in West Hollywood and came out to visit a few years back.

While he was not surprised that we had both indoor plumbing and electricity, he was also amazed by the welcoming spirit, cleanliness, and beauty of the Wasatch Front.

Apparently, he'd only been half-joking in his horse-and-buggy jokes, had some pretty strange ideas about life in Utah.

He was expecting a closed, repressive society, (with women in long skirts, bonnets, and petticoats, apparently).

You know- the stereotype that the "educated" coastal elites love to perpetuate about "fly-over states".

Without warning, pretense, or facade, "the d----d Mormons" were more than happy to burst that particular bubble.

[mbh26]

You can't avoid them Marmons. Tracting requirements ensures that.

That might be what they're talking about. People like the benefits of a slightly more religious society but they don't want to be recruited into sacrificing their lives to something they believe is a fraud. If they aren't recruited, there children might be and that could break up the family to an extent. What happens if you have a boss or someone in authority over you who believes it his God given obligation to push Mormonism on you? It's similar to how a Mormon might feel in the protestant south.

I just can't understand who these people are wanting to move to UT. Religion aside, the simple economics of what my salary would be versus how much a house would cost make it so that I would never consider UT versus where I live now. It must be people from California, a very different world than the southeast.

I personally like the stereotypes people have about my favored section of the country. I don't want those people coming to where I live. If Utahns were smart they'd build a border around California and keep the Californians out of their state.

[Bernard Gui]

When I lived in New Mexico, it was the Texans moving in for the beauty, clean air, arts/crafts,

and then complaining about things and trying to change them to the way they were done back

in Texas. Human nature.

I lived in Utah for 10 years. Wouldn't mind moving back. Some of the most wonderful people I have

known live there.

Bernard

[Xander]

And the persecution complex lives on....

[The Nehor]

Love Rome, but what is it with all those Catholics there!

I prefer the old-school Rome myself. You know, the good old days with slavery, violent arena combat, and the wealth of conquered lands pouring in.

[Jeff K.]

Lol, at least they bathed a lot

[Jaybear]

Interesting.

You believe that Mormons are such great people and great neighbors.

So the conclusion must be that non Mormons who express their preference not to live in a predominantly Mormon neighborhood are anti-Mormon bigots.

But the evidence seems to suggest that non Mormons looking to move to the state aren't asking where the greatest concentration of Mormons can found, so that they can move there, but so they can avoid those neighborhoods.

So does that create a conundrum for you, or simply evidence of the widespread anti-mormon bigotry?

And if the latter, what do you with Mormons who were raised outside the "Mormon Corridor" and who prefer it there, in part because they think Utah Mormons are insular.

[Jeff K.]

You believe that Mormons are such great people and great neighbors.

So the conclusion must be that non Mormons who express their preference not to live in a predominantly Mormon neighborhood are anti-Mormon bigots.

But the evidence seems to suggest that non Mormons looking to move to the state aren't asking where the greatest concentration of Mormons can found, so that they can move there, but so they can avoid those neighborhoods.

.

Replace the word Mormon with Jew or Muslim, and then tell us the same thing.

People who know, truly know the gospel of Jesus Christ know that a goal is to have all live in Zion, in the Celestial Kingdom. Living in an area often encompasses more than a single demographic or advantage. There is the weather, economics, schools, and so on. But when people focus on one demographic, such as religion, the do indeed exercise a bigotry.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Jeff K.

[selek1]

You believe that Mormons are such great people and great neighbors.

Based on real-life evidence, yes.

It goes without saying, of course, that we are speaking generally rather than specifically.

As a whole, Mormon communities are wholesome, safe, and populated by good and friendly people who would give you the shirt off their back and a potato casserole to boot.

That does not mean or imply that ALL Mormons are good neighbors or that ALL Gentiles are not.

Only an unprincipled polemicist would try to construe these statements to that effect.

So the conclusion must be that non Mormons who express their preference not to live in a predominantly Mormon neighborhood are anti-Mormon bigots.

Ironically- none of the faithful LDS here have expressed this sentiment.

But then again, neither are we unprincipled polemicists seeking to score rhetorical points or oil up our own bigotries.

The closest any faithful LDS has come to your accusation is that thier preferences may be based upon ignorance of life in Utah.

That might be considered prejudice (judging before one has all the facts), but no one here (save you) has dropped the bigotry charge.

But the evidence seems to suggest that non Mormons looking to move to the state aren't asking where the greatest concentration of Mormons can found, so that they can move there, but so they can avoid those neighborhoods.

So does that create a conundrum for you, or simply evidence of the widespread anti-mormon bigotry?

Again- this is a false dichotomy, a chimera entirely of your making.

Congratulations- it says much more about you than it does about us.

And if the latter, what do you with Mormons who were raised outside the "Mormon Corridor" and who prefer it there, in part because they think Utah Mormons are insular.

We welcome them, offer them the shirts off our backs as necessary, and pass the potato casserole.

[mbh26]

]We welcome them, offer them the shirts off our backs as necessary, and pass the potato casserole.

Do you pass out jello as well?

[Jaybear]

Based on real-life evidence, yes.

It goes without saying, of course, that we are speaking generally rather than specifically.

That does not mean or imply that ALL Mormons are good neighbors or that ALL Gentiles are not.

Of course we are speaking generally.

Only an unprincipled polemicist would try to construe these statements to that effect.

Interesting, what goes without saying, because it was so obvious, now becomes the the basis of an implied but overt personal attack. Your really have a remarkable, perhaps even a pathological inability to avoid personal attacks. You should get that checked.

Jaybear says: So your conclusion must be that non Mormons who express their preference not to live in a predominantly Mormon neighborhood are anti-Mormon bigots.

Ironically- none of the faithful LDS here have expressed this sentiment.

Jeff: But when people focus on one demographic, such as religion, [they] do indeed exercise a bigotry.

JSKAINS: I guess the question, other than why people want to move to Utah to avoid the Mormons, is why the bigotry, bad attitudes, and fingerpointing is allowed for Mormons, but very little for anyone else?

BlueBell: He's pointing out that no one would ever think it was o.k. to say that about moving to new york and avoiding Jews and wondering why people would think it's o.k. to say the same thing about mormons. (IMPLYING BIGOTRY).

The closest any faithful LDS has come to your accusation is that thier preferences may be based upon ignorance of life in Utah.

That might be considered prejudice (judging before one has all the facts), but no one here (save you) has dropped the bigotry charge.

Again- this is a false dichotomy, a chimera entirely of your making.

Ah, its not bigotry, its ignorance. That's the ticket. Except for those who call it bigotry. And except for the fact that Mormonism is not a secret. They have been making themselves known to their neighbors well before they fled Ohio.

I hate to break it to you but ignorance is at the root of bigotry. Bigotry is unreasoned intolerance. Your suggesting that if they knew, what you know, which is that Mormons are such great neighbors(generally speaking), then people would instead be looking to find predominate LDS neighbors to move to.

We welcome them, offer them the shirts off our backs as necessary, and pass the potato casserole.

That wasn't the question. If you think the answer is ignorance, and not bigotry, what about those like CDowis, who say's:

CDowis: I went to BYU and lived in Utah for several years and couldn't wait to get out of Utah.

How far are you going to go out on that limb to avoid reexamining your underlying assumption that, in general, Mormons are great neighbors.

Congratulations- it says much more about you than it does about us.

What it tells you about me, is that when the evidence doesn't support the assumption, I will reevaluate the validity of the assumption.

So then what is your "real life evidence" that tells you that Mormons are, generally speaking, great neighbors to non Mormons?

But, before you present the evidence, I will grant you that (in general) Mormons are great neighbors to fellow Mormons.

So what is your real evidence that they are likewise great neighbors to ex Mormons and non Mormons?

Edited March 4, 2012 by Jaybear

[Jaybear]

Replace the word Mormon with Jew or Muslim, and then tell us the same thing.

Go right ahead. But note, I didn't tell you anything. I simply asked a question.

People who know, truly know the gospel of Jesus Christ know that a goal is to have all live in Zion, in the Celestial Kingdom. Living in an area often encompasses more than a single demographic or advantage. There is the weather, economics, schools, and so on. But when people focus on one demographic, such as religion, the do indeed exercise a bigotry.

No one focused on one demographic. They simply noted that they considered a high concentration of Mormons to be a negative attribute for Utah to be weighed against the other positives attributes.

As noted by CDowis, some of those people who would prefer not to live in a community with a very high concentration of Mormons, include your fellow Mormons.

[thesometimesaint]

Jaybear:

Ahh blaming the victim again I see.

Just one l;ook at our teacings, welfare programs, educational institutions, communty activism, should be enough to demonstrate to you our commitment to our non LDS friends, and neighbors., But some will never satisfied with anything less than our destruction.

[Jaybear]

Jaybear:

Ahh blaming the victim again I see.

The victim? How does a expressing a reluctance to move to a neighborhood that has a high concentration of Mormons victimize Mormons?

Bear in mind, that one of the person that expressed such an attitude was CDowis.

Just one l;ook at our teacings, welfare programs, educational institutions, communty activism, should be enough to demonstrate to you our commitment to our non LDS friends, and neighbors.,

I am a nonMormon who lives in Utah. I don't need to look on paper to understand this issue.

But some will never satisfied with anything less than our destruction.

Wow. That strikes me as more than a tad bit paranoid.

No one is trying to destroy the LDS Church. They are just looking for a nice place to live.