Banning Santa Claus At Ward Christmas Parties?

[Calm]

First a slay ride and now a tooth ferry!

Sorry, too tired to be clever myself tonight....

[Nominee]

I am of mixed view. Christmas is not a religious holiday in my opinion. The church does not recognize it as a special service other than having a special broadcast yearly in December. Christ was born in the spring (and some are adamant that it was April 6) and certainly there is no mention in the scriptures about trees or lights. Personally, we do not have our children believe there is a Santa Clause, although two of them believed despite our efforts. In my opinion, we should no more convince there is a Santa than there is an Easter bunny or a tooth ferry. But if they want to believe we let them figure it out on their own. As for Santa at ward parties, I have not encouraged it just because I find the notion of Santa to be bazaar but I have always let the majority decide.

I told my kids that a magical man called Santa is make believe. I explained that somebody wrote a story about a man named Santa that delivers presents on Christmas and has flying reindeer and hundreds elves for friends/employees ~just like somebody wrote a story about a hobbit named Frodo with a wizard named Gandalf and a ring that has powers. People act out those stories and play make believe because its fun and entertaining and makes people smile and laugh. I am happy with the outcome. My children enjoy movies like "The Polar Express" and even pretend that Santa is real on Christmas Eve when they rush to bed so he will come. But they completely understand that we are just playing make believe because its fun and it makes us happy. I remember a couple years ago we went to a parade and when Santa was coming down the street my daughter sorta freaked excitement and was like "AHHH! Yay! Santa! Its Santa!" so I looked at her with one eyebrow raised... She scolded me quickly saying, "That man dressed up for us mom. Its the thought that counts!" I knew in my heart at that moment that I had done right. At least according to my heart. My children know Santa is a fake but they also know why he is. They enjoy every minute of it and would never tell another child that Santa wasn't real. I pretend to be the toothfairy also but they know I am pretending and they are thankful that I do it for them.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Nominee

[Freedom]

I told my kids that a magical man called Santa is make believe. I explained that somebody wrote a story about a man named Santa that delivers presents on Christmas and has flying reindeer and hundreds elves for friends/employees ~just like somebody wrote a story about a hobbit named Frodo with a wizard named Gandalf and a ring that has powers. People act out those stories and play make believe because its fun and entertaining and makes people smile and laugh. I am happy with the outcome. My children enjoy movies like "The Polar Express" and even pretend that Santa is real on Christmas Eve when they rush to bed so he will come. But they completely understand that we are just playing make believe because its fun and it makes us happy. I remember a couple years ago we went to a parade and when Santa was coming down the street my daughter sorta freaked excitement and was like "AHHH! Yay! Santa! Its Santa!" so I looked at her with one eyebrow raised... She scolded me quickly saying, "That man dressed up for us mom. Its the thought that counts!" I knew in my heart at that moment that I had done right. At least according to my heart. My children know Santa is a fake but they also know why he is. They enjoy every minute of it and would never tell another child that Santa wasn't real. I pretend to be the toothfairy also but they know I am pretending and they are thankful that I do it for them.

You reflect my sentiments. We do talk a lot about this history of the people linked to Santa Clause. I just do not believe in making my children believe in a fantasy. They cannot abstract and it becomes very confusing. One of my daughters was a die hard believer and nothing anybody would say could persuade her otherwise. She turned out just fine but she was certainly very disappointed when it all turned out to be a false.

[Ron Beron]

Since we are getting rid of Santa I say let's get rid of the Christmas tree, caroling, yulelogs, eggnog, mistletoe, holly and every other attachment to Christmas since most of it is pagan inspired and oriented. In fact, let's get rid of December 25th as Christmas day since we all know that is the day of celebrating Mithras.

Where's Bill O'Reilly when we need him?

[bluebell]

We encourage our kids to believe in santa, the toothfairy and like when they are little. To me, the best part about childhood is being able to believe in magic. I can't imagine a childhood without trying to find the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow or waiting for the Easter bunny. Kids grow up so fast and lose the magic of childhood on their own-i don't want to encourage it's loss early.

However, i understand why other parents don't see things that way and support their efforts-we're all just doing our best anyway.

[Nominee]

You reflect my sentiments. We do talk a lot about this history of the people linked to Santa Clause. I just do not believe in making my children believe in a fantasy. They cannot abstract and it becomes very confusing. One of my daughters was a die hard believer and nothing anybody would say could persuade her otherwise. She turned out just fine but she was certainly very disappointed when it all turned out to be a false.

Yes, on that note, I don't support the idea of making my children believe in anything! I give them all the information I have, thoughtfully and with their best interest at heart. I pray for my parenting, that the spirit be with me and God's will be done. I pray for my children that they take what they get in this life and use is wisely, according to the will of God. I think the statement "Actions speak louder than words" should carry a lot of weight too. As a parent, it is not just my responsibility to tell my children what I know ~ as a parent, it is my responsibility to show my children how I choose to behave with the information I have and share my testimony of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ so they understand what credit I give God for all of it. We believe in make believe, we do not believe in Santa Claus.

[Nominee]

We encourage our kids to believe in santa, the toothfairy and like when they are little. To me, the best part about childhood is being able to believe in magic. I can't imagine a childhood without trying to find the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow or waiting for the Easter bunny. Kids grow up so fast and lose the magic of childhood on their own-i don't want to encourage it's loss early.

However, i understand why other parents don't see things that way and support their efforts-we're all just doing our best anyway.

This conversation just made me think of Legos. I love Legos. My kids love Legos. Legos stimulate the brain and put the creative mind to work. Or there are other toys that kids look at more than they experience them. Like books compared to television, one requires you to only absord while the other requires you to create.

My children and I have always looked forward to Santa at Christmas time. They have always got rich when a tooth fell out because we scored a toothfairy who pays well knowing that you only lose your teeth once in life. My son just lost a tooth a little less than a month ago and he said "Mom, I hope I get $2 bucks for this tooth because that's what I need to buy my horse." I said, "Hmmm. I can send the toothfairy an email to let him know the circumstances and your request but I can't promise anything, the final decision belongs to the toothfairy." He smiled real big and said, "ok, thanks mom!" He is 10. Nothing else was said. He knows I'm the toothfairy (I told him long ago in the past when he asked for the truth). He got his $2 and we both gave the "toothfairy" all the credit. I don't think children need to "believe" to enjoy what the imagination has to offer. We look forward to the Easter Bunny also. But the big guy is not "real."

Edited December 11, 2011 by Nominee

[saemo]

Maybe do what Catholics do, teach the real story, of St. Nicholas.

http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=371

Some stories have legendary aspect to them, but it goes like this.

St. Nicholas was the Bishop of Myra in the 4th century. (fact)

Legend....

His parents died when he was a young man, leaving him well off and he determined to devote his inheritance to works of charity. An opportunity soon arose. A citizen of Patara had lost all his money, and had moreover to support three daughters who could not find husbands because of their poverty; so the wretched man was going to give them over to prostitution. This came to the ears of Nicholas, who thereupon took a bag of gold and, under cover of darkness threw it in at the open window of the man's house. Here was a dowry for the eldest girl and she was soon duly married. At intervals Nicholas did the same for the second and third; at the last time the father was on the watch, recognized his benefactor and overwhelmed him with his gratitude.

Edited December 11, 2011 by saemo

[saemo]

Good for that bishop. I'd never have the guts to do that.

I explained this week to my seminary students the similarities between the Christmas tree and the cultic worship of the asherim, the green tree and the groves of the Canaanites. But, did it in a humorous way; they didn't take me too seriously.

Cultural, and even pagan practices can be turned to Jesus Christ. So while there can be, and are, similarities in practice, one is for celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ, the very Being of our Salvation, and the other is not. I hope that your students are able to discern the difference.

[thesometimesaint]

Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus.

http://www.newseum.org/yesvirginia/

[Flyonthewall]

The best ward Christmas party I ever went to was themed "A night in Bethlehem" and was about 15 - 20 years ago. We all dressed up in shepherd's robes and the dinner was from different bazaar booths, everyone received a small olive wood nativity scene ornament, and there were carols sung through out the night as different skits were performed on the stage. No Santa.

Last year, as part of the activities committee, we tried to do the same thing in our current ward. Afterwards we heard a lot of grumbles about there being no Santa.

This year, Santa was back.

[saemo]

Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus.

http://www.newseum.org/yesvirginia/

...the US is so Protestant-ized that most Christians here are unaware of the real Saint/Santa. I see in LDS homes pictures and statues of Santa Claus, the bishop who is recognized by his mitre and staff. It gives me great joy to find this Saint in my Mormon friends and families homes.

Edited December 11, 2011 by saemo

[thesometimesaint]

Saemo:

As I remember it there are 3 different Catholic Saints that could be considered the "real" Saint Nick. But at any rate I don't have a problem with any one of them or even our modern ideas of Santa Claus.

As in A Christmas Carol:

"There are many things from which I might have derived good, by which I have not profited, I dare say," returned the nephew. "Christmas among the rest. But I am sure I have always thought of Christmas time, when it has come round -- apart from the veneration due to its sacred name and origin, if anything belonging to it can be apart from that -- as a good time: a kind, forgiving, charitable, pleasant time: the only time I know of, in the long calendar of the year, when men and women seem by one consent to open their shut-up hearts freely, and to think of people below them as if they really were fellow-passengers to the grave, and not another race of creatures bound on other journeys. And therefore, uncle, though it has never put a scrap of gold or silver in my pocket, I believe that it has done me good, and will do me good; and I say, God bless it!".

God Bleess Us EVERYONE.

[GingerRed]

I have always loved this figurine......it should be in every home. I have been to ward parties that had Santa read the Christmas story from the bible. And I have been in the activities committee several time and I've done those 'Night In Bethlehem" s 4 times. Each was well received!

[Nominee]

The best ward Christmas party I ever went to was themed "A night in Bethlehem" and was about 15 - 20 years ago. We all dressed up in shepherd's robes and the dinner was from different bazaar booths, everyone received a small olive wood nativity scene ornament, and there were carols sung through out the night as different skits were performed on the stage. No Santa.

Last year, as part of the activities committee, we tried to do the same thing in our current ward. Afterwards we heard a lot of grumbles about there being no Santa.

This year, Santa was back.

That is really too bad! Our party last night was a huge success! We did the night in Bethlehem scene and had bazaar booths and skits and carols. It was fantastic! Everyone had a super good time.

[BCSpace]

What is it like typically in the Church, US or abroad? To me it seems okay for some fun for the kids, solemn all the time is not very fun.

It's a fad and/or a local choice. The previous Bishop of our ward was opposed to Santa at the WCP. The current one, and all the ones in our Stake to my knowledge are having them. I personally say you can have Santa at the WPC without being incongruous to the Spirit or the mission of the Church. Some bishops make sure there is a live manger scene and that's just peachy too.

[altersteve]

Why do we even let kids believe in Santa anyway? A big hairy fat guy who lives with thousands of elves (you can't help but wonder what that's all about) breaks into your house in the middle of the night, leaves a bunch of crap in your living room, watches you sleep, and eats your food. Yeah, that's a great thing to tell children.

(Joke, by the way, LOL. I love the concept of Santa. I also love making fun of stuff.)

Edited December 11, 2011 by altersteve

[mfbukowski]

First a slay ride and now a tooth ferry!

That's a big-mama tooth!

[Mudcat]

Most of the folks I know.. self included, do the Santa thing with their kids. My wife(LDS) get's a huge kick out it, Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy too. I have no interest in the others but play along. I know a few EV's that don't do Santa and they are typically thought to be a bit odd by most of us.

However, I have had my doubts that doing "the Santa thing" is actually the best thing to do. Honestly if we are trying to teach our kids belief in things they can't literally see like God and then we whodo them with the Santa thing, I imagine it's a bit undermining on some level. Don't know for sure though.

[Hamba Tuhan]

I personally have hated Santa since my earliest memories. Somewhere my parents have annual photos of me sobbing and reaching out for someone--anyone--to please rescue me from the lap of this nightmarish Christmas clown. As I got older, I remember my mum telling me that, if I didn't tell Santa what I wanted, I might not get anything. That was a risk I was more than willing to take.

But I see no need to impose my own crazy opinions on others in such a matter. Most years, a member of our bishopric will don a cheap and unconvincing Santa costume and hand out lollies at the ward Christmas party. I'm OK with it...so long as he comes nowhere near me.

[Traela]

Maybe do what Catholics do, teach the real story, of St. Nicholas.

http://www.catholic....hp?saint_id=371

Some stories have legendary aspect to them, but it goes like this.

St. Nicholas was the Bishop of Myra in the 4th century. (fact)

Legend....

His parents died when he was a young man, leaving him well off and he determined to devote his inheritance to works of charity. An opportunity soon arose. A citizen of Patara had lost all his money, and had moreover to support three daughters who could not find husbands because of their poverty; so the wretched man was going to give them over to prostitution. This came to the ears of Nicholas, who thereupon took a bag of gold and, under cover of darkness threw it in at the open window of the man's house. Here was a dowry for the eldest girl and she was soon duly married. At intervals Nicholas did the same for the second and third; at the last time the father was on the watch, recognized his benefactor and overwhelmed him with his gratitude.

Back when I was Primary President, one of the little kids asked me The Question. So I took a deep breath and answered, "Of course Santa Claus is real! A long time ago there was a very good man called St. Nicholas...blah blah blah...Sinterklaas...blah blah (children's eyes glazing over) blah...And now we call him Santa Claus!" Oddly enough, for once there were no follow up questions.

[The Mean Farmer]

I played Santa Claus for a different units WCP. It was a breakfast and I put on my Halloween Costume (santa suit) and had a great time with the kids.

There was one kid in particular who saw me, as Santa, during Trunk or Treat; ran up to me and said "I want a Po Go Stick". I asked his name, if he had been a good boy, and told him to write me a letter.

When he ran up to me I placed him on my lap, and I asked if he remembered me. He said "yes".

I asked if he still wanted a Po Go Stick, he said "NOOOOO"

I asked what he wanted instead; he said "A million dollars or a BB gun"

There was a 3 year old girl who ran up to me, offered her request with a huge smile on her face, and as she was hoping down reached up and gave me a kiss on my cheek.

Conversely, on Wednesday I may tell one of the kids who is in my 11 year old scout troop that he sat on my lap last week. I was put in that calling 1 week ago and he is from the other ward so he doesn't know me.

These kinds of things are GOLD for the kids, and Santa.

If a Bishop doesn't want to have Santa visit the WCP then children shouldn't have been invited.

[saemo]

Back when I was Primary President, one of the little kids asked me The Question. So I took a deep breath and answered, "Of course Santa Claus is real! A long time ago there was a very good man called St. Nicholas...blah blah blah...Sinterklaas...blah blah (children's eyes glazing over) blah...And now we call him Santa Claus!" Oddly enough, for once there were no follow up questions.

Culturally, I can see how that would flop with non-Catholics. Since we're following the liturgical calendar, we aren't celebrating Christmas yet, we are in the season of Advent. The feast of St. Nicholas is Dec.6th, during Advent, so all activities and stories around this Saint focus on his charity towards others, his love of children, pointed towards Jesus. Christmas eve is when we'll begin celebrating Christmas, as a community, and will celebrate for the 12 days of Christmas until Epiphany, which is when people will be throwing really big parties and events.

I have a friend with a lot of young children. On Christmas day they have the three wiseman who belong to the nativity scene across the room from the manger, and every day the wiseman are moved a little closer to the nativity scene, until Epiphany, when they make it to see the baby Jesus.

Those are the kinds of things going on in these parts.

[Calm]

I personally have hated Santa since my earliest memories. Somewhere my parents have annual photos of me sobbing and reaching out for someone--anyone--to please rescue me from the lap of this nightmarish Christmas clown. As I got older, I remember my mum telling me that, if I didn't tell Santa what I wanted, I might not get anything. That was a risk I was more than willing to take.

But I see no need to impose my own crazy opinions on others in such a matter. Most years, a member of our bishopric will don a cheap and unconvincing Santa costume and hand out lollies at the ward Christmas party. I'm OK with it...so long as he comes nowhere near me.

my kids never wanted to sit on Santa's lap, I don't see the reasoning for forcing them even for cute pictures....after all, pictures with Santa in them only look good at Christmas time, rather put the effort into all year round looking good pictures.

[Freedom]

Satan, Santa. See the connection?