Dgal Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 nooooooooo I lost my testimony. I was struggling. Members were awful to me. I left the Church. It was not because of the members. I left because I lost my testimony. The conduct of the members did not make me leave. The conduct of the members made it impossible to leave with good feelings.Thank you for clearing that up.
Dgal Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 CountryBoy, Care to share what made you loose your testimony? It would shed a great deal of light into your struggles. What made you find your testimony again?
Tacenda Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 That's my question as well, what made you lose your testimony, if you care to share? Maybe there's hope for me.
UtahTexan Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 Ok....kinda long story..... When I was in law school in Michigan, I made it a point to visit Palmyra (three times) and Nauvoo (once during law school, once before law school). The last time I went to Palmyra, it was during the Pageant. For the first time, I was confronted by many non-Mormons. being a law student, I debated them. It felt good to debate. However, I determined to become more knowledgeable in the LDS faith so as to be able to debate better. I went home and began to read everything I could. The problem was, I found things in LDS books (old books) that I was never taught. Like, the various versions of the First Vision and some other things. It began to chip away at my testimony. I felt very deceived. I had given up so very much to be LDS AND to be a missionary. I went inactive. I asked my bishop for help. All I got was that I was committing the unforgivable sin. The more I doubted, the more I was harassed. I struggled to keep my testimony. I prayed. I fasted. But, little by little my testimony went away. All because I discovered things I had never been taught. One day, I woke up...and my testimony was gone. It was one of the few times in my entire life that tears came to my eyes. The harassment got worse. I will not go into detail of the horrible things done to me. Finally, out of anger and resignation, I sent the letter to have my name removed. Weeks later, a church court was held and I got a letter that I had been ex'd. I did not attend the hearing. I left with my faith in God intact, but with a hatred for the LDS Church. That is a rough sketch of what happened. It was deeper...and more stuff happened, but I hope you can get a flavor for it. It was 1989.
Dgal Posted March 13, 2015 Posted March 13, 2015 That sounds very painful, indeed. Thank you for sharing. Certainly, God is a God of healing. I will pray for your continued healing.
UtahTexan Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Out of nowhere, the missionaries appeared...(Elders). We chatted and they will be sitting with me on Sunday. The Bus has left the station
Dgal Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Out of nowhere, the missionaries appeared...(Elders). We chatted and they will be sitting with me on Sunday. The Bus has left the stationFasten your seatbelt. 1
Tacenda Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Thanks for sharing that! That's basically what happened to me, but I didn't research LDS books, just the internet. I'll never forget the day I thought the church may not be true. I was standing near my bathroom door and the words came into my head that the church might not be what I thought it was, and it felt so surreal. Like when you are in a car accident. Maybe I was in shock!I was one of those people that would wonder why we were told to always work on our testimonies. I never struggled, even when I went through a bout of inactivity while a young adult. I always knew it was true. And maybe it is true, even with the warts in it's history. It might be true because it helps people become better. Not in a conceited way though. Good luck Country Boy!
Dgal Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Thanks for sharing that! That's basically what happened to me, but I didn't research LDS books, just the internet.And maybe it is true, even with the warts in it's history. It might be true because it helps people become better. Not in a conceited way though. Be very careful with that kind of definition of Truth. It leaves truth open to whatever people want it to be based on if it makes them good people. There are many things in our society, and that includes different faiths, that make people, good people.
Tacenda Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) Be very careful with that kind of definition of Truth. It leaves truth open to whatever people want it to be based on if it makes them good people. There are many things in our society, and that includes different faiths, that make people, good people.I go to church and help a special needs young man. So the bishopric asking me to help with this young man makes me a better human being. Also, many of my callings throughout my life. That's the truth in the church that stands out to me right now, at least it's something, as I slowly come out of a faith crisis. I don't think it hinders the church with this definition. ETA: And I might add, I think the counselor or bishop or whomever had the idea to ask me to do this, was inspired. I doubt very much I'd have stayed active otherwise. Edited March 14, 2015 by Tacenda
Garden Girl Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 I go to church and help a special needs young man. So the bishopric asking me to help with this young man makes me a better human being. Also, many of my callings throughout my life. That's the truth in the church that stands out to me right now, at least it's something, as I slowly come out of a faith crisis. I don't think it hinders the church with this definition. ETA: And I might add, I think the counselor or bishop or whomever had the idea to ask me to do this, was inspired. I doubt very much I'd have stayed active otherwise. And I hope you will continue, Tacenda... This is a loving service for that young man... and a blessing for you. GG
Garden Girl Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Out of nowhere, the missionaries appeared...(Elders). We chatted and they will be sitting with me on Sunday. The Bus has left the station GG
Dgal Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 I go to church and help a special needs young man. So the bishopric asking me to help with this young man makes me a better human being. Also, many of my callings throughout my life. That's the truth in the church that stands out to me right now, at least it's something, as I slowly come out of a faith crisis. I don't think it hinders the church with this definition. ETA: And I might add, I think the counselor or bishop or whomever had the idea to ask me to do this, was inspired. I doubt very much I'd have stayed active otherwise.What a wondeful thing to do! I only wanted to urge caution with the definition of truth that you were putting out there, because, and your example demonstrates my concern, you would be becoming a better person for assisting this young man whether it be a Mormon church or any other faith denomination. Being kind and charitable with others is not something we Mormons have a corner market on. That is my only concern with equating goodness with Truth.I pray God will continue to help you deal with your crisis of faith. 1
UtahTexan Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 It took me over 25 years to overcome my crisis of faith.......
Tacenda Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 It took me over 25 years to overcome my crisis of faith.......It probably didn't help by resigning, if you had stayed active, who knows it may not have taken so long. Btw, I was a current TR holder up to a year or two ago. But don't really feel I might be damned like some on here have alluded to in some responses on here, not specific to me. Just think though what a help you can be to those going through the same thing. The bishop will have a great, great asset at his fingertips, you!!
UtahTexan Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 It probably didn't help by resigning, if you had stayed active, who knows it may not have taken so long. Btw, I was a current TR holder up to a year or two ago. But don't really feel I might be damned like some on here have alluded to in some responses on here, not specific to me.Just think though what a help you can be to those going through the same thing. The bishop will have a great, great asset at his fingertips, you!! I doubt that. I will simply do what I can. It is kinda like a girl we adopted.....she has done so many things that saddens me...I could have a "crisis of love" and turn from her...but I overlook what can't tolerate, I ignore what those things I cannot accept....and I hold on to the love. The love. And it all remains.
Tacenda Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 I doubt that. I will simply do what I can.It is kinda like a girl we adopted.....she has done so many things that saddens me...I could have a "crisis of love" and turn from her...but I overlook what can't tolerate, I ignore what those things I cannot accept....and I hold on to the love. The love. And it all remains.I like that analogy!! We shouldn't give up on the church because of some members/leaders choices?
UtahTexan Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) I like that analogy!! We shouldn't give up on the church because of some members/leaders choices? It boils down to this: Will this Church bring me closer to God? Does it provide comfort and love? Edited March 14, 2015 by CountryBoy
Dgal Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 It probably didn't help by resigning, if you had stayed active, who knows it may not have taken so long. Btw, I was a current TR holder up to a year or two ago. But don't really feel I might be damned like some on here have alluded to in some responses on here, not specific to me.Just think though what a help you can be to those going through the same thing. The bishop will have a great, great asset at his fingertips, you!!People have alluded to damnation of CB or anyone else? I haven't read anything close to that.
Dgal Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 I like that analogy!! We shouldn't give up on the church because of some members/leaders choices?We should never give up! Especially due to others actions.
Dgal Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 It boils down to this: Will this Church bring me closer to God? Does it provide comfort and love? Praying for you, CB. Clearly you want to be closer to God. He stands there, always, knocking, waiting, for us.
Tacenda Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) People have alluded to damnation of CB or anyone else? I haven't read anything close to that. I can't remember the thread but it sounded like the poster was worried that CB broke covenants and something to the fact that it's pretty serious or God won't be mocked or something or other. I can't remember but it was my take that CB had to do some serious repenting according to the poster. Or I'm going crazy and made this all up. ETA'ing because I ran out of posts from being put on "limited". I wanted to find out why I came up with this damnation concept in my mind and googled what happens to those that leave or are apostate. I found this podcast along with someone's reply to it. I think CB is in the clear, he still believes in God. http://mormonmatters.org/2009/11/13/what-is-the-final-destination-for-apostates-and-ex-mormons/ SHARON lds in TN November 13, 2009 at 8:06 am Dear Andrew: You are to be commended for addressing one of the most complicated and deep subjects that there is…and one that affects us radically for all eternity. My take is based upon a few points that have been within my experience. Starting with your last paragraphs about the Holy Ghost. Even though we are ‘given’ the gift when confirmed, much depends upon us choosing to “RECEIVE” it into our being, our heart, the way we live each moment…ASKING for it to be WITH us and lead, comfort, and whatever else we need like inspiration and direction. That is part of our agency. To be worthy and to participate in the interaction and interdependence with that great spiritual being who has been assigned to ‘be’ and ‘do’ for us things pertaining to our spirit and mortal lives. WHEN we sincerely activate his presence by receiving and LISTENING carefully…and THEN FOLLOW what He says…there is a personal exchange between us….like a filling of light, our hearts are changed after his touch…our minds are ENLIGHTENED and IN lighted. We KNOW that it was Him. We KNOW it with a deep knowing that NO ONE can refute. Then, as we progress…..day by day..experience by experience…question and problem solved & answered time after time…line upon line, precept upon precept…that knowing Him, the Holy Ghost’s presence..that deep testimony that He has anchored inside, has truly…PERMANENTLY attached to our whole being at that point….when THAT kind of knowing that CAN ONLY BE DONE BY THE SPIRIT HOLY GHOST touching our SPIRIT………that is a SURE testimony. =SURE= being an important word here..because at this point, because a divine spirit has made a permanent imprint upon our spirit…it’s like Joseph Smith said about his vision of God. He knew God knew He knew. He knew God knew that God knew…..There was NO doubt and the responsibility was complete for the knowing. God is so just and fair. Law covers all, but mercy steps in. The Atonement is so complete and mercy-FULL. Repentance is a huge factor in our turning and returning to a full relationship with the Savior. There is a saying that touches this conondrum. “The best kept secret in the Church (of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints) today is the gospel” Any ‘fear’ or ‘scare tactic’ is from the Adversary. A loving Heavenly Father never uses a tool of darkness to bring his children unto Him. We are empowered to chose every step, every thought, every activation and reception of the Holy Ghost to get through our weaknesses and rise above the banal and darkness of living a mortal life. Outer Darkness is not for anyone except those whom-after receiving a SURE witness, like in Calling and Election…where you KNOW CHRIST and have been SEALED UP TO ETERNAL LIFE in the SECOND ENDOWMENT….those who are FULL of a SURE testimony from the Holy Ghost and REALLY KNOW GOD and the ways of his kingdom…. that those kind of brothers and sister who might shed innocent blood of little children, etc… Who DENY their sure testimony….who OPENLY REBEL against Christ, DENY HIM and His ATONEMENT…who openly FIGHT against and try to destroy the Kingdom….. So much to explain…but hopefully I mentioned enough to shed a little more light on this sad subject. It simply is not simple. But, one thing for sure. It WILL be just. Fair. Honest. Even LOVING. God the Father would cease to be God if He did not follow fairly Eternal Law. That is how He became God. HE IS LOVE. TOTAL LOVE – Light – Truth. I am NOT kept “in check” by fear. I have simply learned the difference between blessings and consequences of being dis-obedient. My life is soooo soo so much happier, peaceful, successful, orderly, easier…more plentiful…WHEN I am willing to be worthy to have and then ask to receive the Holy Ghost. Then my day is filled with LIGHT. I have learned I like and prefer to be in LIGHT and will not chose anything that might become darkness…or end of in ‘outer darkness’ eventually. We each desire for – seek for – crave – am comfortable in – a differing amount of light and truth. As we chose that level..where we are comfortable…it may be IN or OUT of the LDS church. Since many other churches or methods of worship hold a differing measure of truth..each child of God is drawn / comfortable in THAT form and amount of worship & truth. They are for the most part sincere or even completely matched to that level of light according to the light which is IN THEM….or to that measure to which they DESIRE. Since no child of God is forced, and we are all accountable for those choices…WE and WE alone are chooing our kingdom of glory. Since there are millions of kingdoms and unknown amounts of glory (glory is intelligence or truth and light)…there are some children who chose darkness over light. There are, sadly, some who chose to rebel again the light, rebel against their SPECIAL testimony given spirit TO spirit (from the Holy Ghost) and chose darkness over light, even the brightest light. Hence, a ‘kingdom’ of the darkest….where the worst of rebellion can live forever, made by THEIR OWN CHOICES (after a fair and loving judgement according to their understanding and correct knowledge)…that being ‘outer darkness’. They did NOT want to be with God or IN any part of His various kingdoms. They were not comfortable in light and chose darkness and all opposites to God. That is my testimony, There are load of scriptures to back, but I have an appointment. Love to All Edited March 14, 2015 by Tacenda
UtahTexan Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) People have alluded to damnation of CB or anyone else? I haven't read anything close to that. Yes. When I left the Church, I was told I was going to hell with no chance of Salvation and that I could NEVER return to the Church because I was committing the one unforgivable sin Edited March 14, 2015 by CountryBoy
Dgal Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 Yes. When I left the Church, I was told I was going to hell with no chance of Salvation and that I could NEVER return to the Church because I was committing the one unforgivable sinThat certainly is clearly wrong. It also shows they don't know what the unpardonable sin is, or at least, who is capable of committing it. One would need their second anointing to commit what is accurately known as the unpardonable sin. Did you ever receive the the second anointing, CB?
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