Question On Doctrine Relating To Gospel Principles Ch. 41

[RegularMormon]

So our HP Group lesson was on Chapter 41 of Gospel Principles. Under the section "What is the nature of our Spirits" it reads:

All spirits are in adult form. They were adults before their mortal existence, and they are in adult form after death, even if they die as infants or children (see Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith [1998], 131–32).

A comment was made that they had thought the church teaches (especially to comfort mothers who lost children at birth or even as an infant or child) that they would progress in the next life at the state that they were in when they left this earth? I must say I've heard this before too unless I'm mixing it up wtih something else? It left me confused. Does anyone have any insight to this that I might be able to bring back to the class?

~RM

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[CV75]

A comment was made that they had thought the church teaches (especially to comfort mothers who lost children at birth or even as an infant or child) that they would progress in the next life at the state that they were in when they left this earth? I must say I've heard this before too unless I'm mixing it up wtih something else? It left me confused. Does anyone have any insight to this that I might be able to bring back to the class?

The adult spirit is associated with a body (mortal or resurrected) at any stage of development. A child is resurrected as a child and grows into adulthood, and its mother can raise him.

[Arkholt]

The adult spirit is associated with a body (mortal or resurrected) at any stage of development. A child is resurrected as a child and grows into adulthood, and its mother can raise him.

Reference? I'll admit I don't know much about the official Church doctrine on this either.

[Calm]

See chapter 14 in teachings of the presidents of the church...Joseph Smith.

added now that I've switched to the laptop: http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=1d6720596a845110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=da135f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

Edited September 18, 2011 by calmoriah

[CV75]

Reference? I'll admit I don't know much about the official Church doctrine on this either.

1. All spirits are in adult form. They were adults before their mortal existence, and they are in adult form after death, even if they die as infants or children (see Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith [1998], 131–32).

2. President Joseph F. Smith, the sixth President of the Church, reported: “Joseph Smith taught the doctrine that the infant child that was laid away in death would come up in the resurrection as a child; and, pointing to the mother of a lifeless child, he said to her: ‘You will have the joy, the pleasure and satisfaction of nurturing this child, after its resurrection, until it reaches the full stature of its spirit.’ …

“In 1854, I met with my aunt [Agnes Smith], the wife of my uncle, Don Carlos Smith, who was the mother of that little girl [sophronia] that Joseph Smith, the Prophet, was speaking about, when he told the mother that she should have the joy, the pleasure, and the satisfaction of rearing that child, after the resurrection, until it reached the full stature of its spirit; and that it would be a far greater joy than she could possibly have in mortality, because she would be free from the sorrow and fear and disabilities of mortal life, and she would know more than she could know in this life. I met that widow, the mother of that child, and she told me this circumstance and bore testimony to me that this was what the Prophet Joseph Smith said when he was speaking at the funeral of her little daughter.” (see Joseph F. Smith, “Status of Children in the Resurrection,” Improvement Era, May 1918, p. 571).

(and thank you calmoriah!)

[Calm]

Sorry for the lack of a link, I was on the ipad and I can't figure out how to select a line, clicking on it only captures a word for some reason.

[Doctrine 612]

1. All spirits are in adult form. They were adults before their mortal existence, and they are in adult form after death, even if they die as infants or children (see Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith [1998], 131–32).

2. President Joseph F. Smith, the sixth President of the Church, reported: “Joseph Smith taught the doctrine that the infant child that was laid away in death would come up in the resurrection as a child; and, pointing to the mother of a lifeless child, he said to her: ‘You will have the joy, the pleasure and satisfaction of nurturing this child, after its resurrection, until it reaches the full stature of its spirit.’ …

“In 1854, I met with my aunt [Agnes Smith], the wife of my uncle, Don Carlos Smith, who was the mother of that little girl [sophronia] that Joseph Smith, the Prophet, was speaking about, when he told the mother that she should have the joy, the pleasure, and the satisfaction of rearing that child, after the resurrection, until it reached the full stature of its spirit; and that it would be a far greater joy than she could possibly have in mortality, because she would be free from the sorrow and fear and disabilities of mortal life, and she would know more than she could know in this life. I met that widow, the mother of that child, and she told me this circumstance and bore testimony to me that this was what the Prophet Joseph Smith said when he was speaking at the funeral of her little daughter.” (see Joseph F. Smith, “Status of Children in the Resurrection,” Improvement Era, May 1918, p. 571).

(and thank you calmoriah!)

Sounds like the women could have put words in joseph smiths mouth. not that she was telling a lie but i here things like this all the time when i am in a disagreement with some they always say well the prophet said it so its true and iam right. so iam saying the women could be telling the truth because joseph smith could have said this just for her in her hour of need, not meaning for it to be doctrine.

[RegularMormon]

Okay this is still as clear as mud to me. Sorry Help me out... I think I'm thinking on this too hard.

The manual I read stated the spirits are in ADULT FORM, before and after this existence.

The references provided indicate the opposite?

Someone stated the ADULT spirit is associated with a PHYSICAL BODY. So am I understanding it correct to say if a child passes on it will have an ADULT spirit in a small child's physical body? So what is the state in Spirit Prison or Paradise when it is without the body? Still ADULT correct? Is it nurtured as an adult child there?

~b

[Calm]

The one I linked to stated after the resurrection so it was tlking about the physical body. The spirit will of course be 'adult' whatever that means as all spirits are so.

[LeSellers]

Someone stated the ADULT spirit is associated with a PHYSICAL BODY. So am I understanding it correct to say if a child passes on it will have an ADULT spirit in a small child's physical body? So what is the state in Spirit Prison or Paradise when it is without the body? Still ADULT correct? Is it nurtured as an adult child there?

The child's physical body, just as when he was born, will "have" a fully grown spiritual body, but "be" an infantile physcal body.

The physical body will grow to its full stature under his righteous mother's care.

She will not be "raising" a spirit in the spirit world (in Paradise or Prison), but her physical child, post his resurreciton (and hers).

Lehi

[CV75]

Sounds like the women could have put words in joseph smiths mouth. not that she was telling a lie but i here things like this all the time when i am in a disagreement with some they always say well the prophet said it so its true and iam right. so iam saying the women could be telling the truth because joseph smith could have said this just for her in her hour of need, not meaning for it to be doctrine.

Perhaps, and I've considered these ideas was well, but it still makes sense / works for me as part of the curriculum in the meantime, and I wouldn't be disappointed if a better alternative is presented to the human race later on, or if Joseph's statement / promise technically plays out in different ways than we understand / envision them now.

[CV75]

So what is the state in Spirit Prison or Paradise when it is without the body? Still ADULT correct? Is it nurtured as an adult child there?

An adult. Families will be given the option to be reunited there, all in adult spirit form. In the resurrection, families are reconstituted as adults, except those members who died as children; these will be resurrected as children until they grow to their adult personality. They might be very precocious children, but they will not be denied the pleasures of growing up with a loving mother if that is what the Lord wants to give them and they want to receive; likewise the loving mother will not be denied the opportunity of raising a child to adulthood / emancipation if that is the Lord's will and she desires it. Who knows--all this "need" might be worked out of their systems by the time they are resurrected and there will be the option of being resurrected as an adult. I see no reason why some things cannot be accomplished "virtually" in the resurrection as well.

[Garden Girl]

The child's physical body, just as when he was born, will "have" a fully grown spiritual body, but "be" an infantile physcal body.

The physical body will grow to its full stature under his righteous mother's care.

She will not be "raising" a spirit in the spirit world (in Paradise or Prison), but her physical child, post his resurreciton (and hers).

Lehi

Thank you Lehi... this finally made sense to me and I was able to envision it in my mind:

The child, who's physical body is inhabited by an adult spirit (as we all were in the spirit world prior to coming to earth) was born on earth as a baby.

The earthly child is growing but becomes ill and dies, and the physical body is buried but the adult spirit returns to the spirit world.

Upon resurrecton, the physical body which was buried in the earth rises and is joined with the spirit, never to be separated again. Thus the physical child's body is inhabited once again by the adult spirit.

After resurrecton the mother, sealed to her child, will raise the physical child, inhabited by the adult spirit, to adulthood... the body and the spirit finally becoming in tune physically and spiritually.

At least that's what works for me.

GG

Edited September 19, 2011 by Garden Girl

[cinepro]

My wife said that this subject became the focus of discussion when it was taught yesterday in Relief Society.

Personally, I think there are some areas of the gospel where it is really easy to make stuff up just because it sounds good and makes some people feel better.

How such a process would work with a resurrected child in a post-millenial world, I can't imagine. What could it possibly mean to "raise" such a being?

[Senator]

Personally, I think there are some areas of the gospel where it is really easy to make stuff up just because it sounds good and makes some people feel better.

Ditto

It's an exercise of the imagination.

[blackstrap]

Growth in mortality requires cell death and replacement.I'm not sure how that coincides with a perfect resurrected body.On the other hand ,Christ was resurrected with scars for a purpose and whether those scars will some day be removed is unknown,but if so,then a resurrected body is capable of change.

[Ahab]

My wife said that this subject became the focus of discussion when it was taught yesterday in Relief Society.

Personally, I think there are some areas of the gospel where it is really easy to make stuff up just because it sounds good and makes some people feel better.

How such a process would work with a resurrected child in a post-millenial world, I can't imagine. What could it possibly mean to "raise" such a being?

Baby bodies with adult spirits in them will still need to have their diapers changed, I imagine, or else what would happen to all of the poop?

Yeah, I know, just some more speculation.

Let's wait and find out, shall we?