Pornography And Lds: 25 Years From Now...

[cinepro]

We had another lesson today in Church about pornography addiction among the youth and adults in the Church. As I listened to the lesson, I recalled a conversation 10 years ago with a friend who had become a Stake President, and he told me how shocked he was by the prevalence of problems with pornography.

So here I was, 10 years later, listening to a different Church leader in a different stake talking about how big the problem is, especially among the young men. I am not privy to statistics and interview data, but I didn't hear anything that made me think things have gotten any better.

So my question is this:

What is the future of the Church and pornography? Meaning, do you see a day where the problem has been beat, and it becomes a problem only affecting a tiny percentage of Church members (on par with, say, alcohol abuse)? If you could take a time machine to the year 2036, what would the members then be thinking and doing about the issue?

For example, if a member of the Church from 1976 popped up in our time, they might talk about what a huge deal the ERA is, and we'd think "Wow, haven't heard about that issue in a long time!". If a member of the Church from the 1950's showed up, they might tell us how there's a bigger problem with Church members using birth control, to which we might surprise them by telling them that it is quite common among LDS of 2011 and no one thinks twice about it.

Or will we find ourselves sitting in meetings in 2036 and being exhorted to guard ourselves against holographic pornography, and to please attend the local Stake pornography addiction class (now in its 27th year)?

[Storm Rider]

The LDS people are affected by this problem as the society at large. The sheer prevalence of pornography and its easy access is overwhelming many of our members. However, this is nothing but an extension of the carnal man, which is something that mortals have been dealing with since the Garden of Eden. Will it be conquered in 20 years? No, carnal man will continue to be fully present. Will society and LDS in particular, learn how to better cope with this specific form of temptation? Yes, but it will never be overcome completely. As long as there is a sexual drive there will be abuses of it.

[Duncan]

I could see it getting worse, not to be gloomy gilbert or anything but. Any "discussion" I have sat through in church classes, few if any have ever talked about why people view it and no on ever talks about that stuff. Getting people to stop looking at porn is like locking the barn door after the horses got sick. I am just throwing it out there but causes of why people look at it could be boredom, loneliness,curiosity, lack of sexual contact etc. Why don't we talk about those things?

[Storm Rider]

I could see it getting worse, not to be gloomy gilbert or anything but. Any "discussion" I have sat through in church classes, few if any have ever talked about why people view it and no on ever talks about that stuff. Getting people to stop looking at porn is like locking the barn door after the horses got sick. I am just throwing it out there but causes of why people look at it could be boredom, loneliness,curiosity, lack of sexual contact etc. Why don't we talk about those things?

motivations and/or rationalizations why we choose to sin are varied. However, from the time we are young men we learn to be moral, civilized individuals. Why should we throw that discipline out the window because we can click a few buttons and find a deluge of smut? Pornography is titillating, it appeals to our basest emotions, but that is no reason to lose ourselves in it. Pornography is not a stand alone sin; it is always accompanied with various other sins.

Loneliness, curiosity, lack of sexual contact, boredom; these should be warning signs to stay away from the computer and do something else. LDS could be more open about healthy sexual relationships, but I would still say it does not matter what happens to us in life; it is how we respond to events that define our spiritual strength and desire to serve God.

[Jeff K.]

There will be other problems if its not pornography.

What kept pornography controlled before? Well, you had to go down to the cheap part of town and buy it. Video tapes brought it out further, and now total anonymity allows indulgence without consequences. Want to end it? No privacy on the internet (as if there is) and everyone's choices are exposed. Society will once again be able to turn to other indulgences.

[Hamba Tuhan]

For example, if a member of the Church from 1976 popped up in our time, they might talk about what a huge deal the ERA is, and we'd think "Wow, haven't heard about that issue in a long time!".

When I was a fulltime missionary in the 90s, I discovered one afternoon whilst waiting for the mission president to arrive that he had a book in his office, commissioned by the Church and written by a jurist named Dallin Oaks back when the ERA was a 'huge deal' and the Church wanted to explain why. In this book, the author discussed how the language of the proposed amendment would make it difficult, if not impossible, in future to fight legal challenges to things such as homosexual marriage. In other words, I think the issues underpinning the ERA are still with us in a very integral way, and I suspect the law of chastity will be as well.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Hamba Tuhan

[Bob Crockett]

Hypotheticals and religious doctrine/procedure make very poor bedfellows.

[katherine the great]

Or will we find ourselves sitting in meetings in 2036 and being exhorted to guard ourselves against holographic pornography, and to please attend the local Stake pornography addiction class (now in its 27th year)?

Probably. Is there something wrong with our leaders continuing to bring something up if it is a problem? The internet isn't going away any time soon and it is our leaders' job to remind us that just because something is rampant does not make it right. They can't just pretend the problem isn't there. Really, I think they should spend less time lecturing the youth and more time preparing tools for the parents to help secure the home against the problem and encouraging them to communicate with their children. Still, when the child leaves home, they are going to have to eventually learn to cope with the temptation.

[blueadept]

Probably. Is there something wrong with our leaders continuing to bring something up if it is a problem? The internet isn't going away any time soon and it is our leaders' job to remind us that just because something is rampant does not make it right. They can't just pretend the problem isn't there. Really, I think they should spend less time lecturing the youth and more time preparing tools for the parents to help secure the home against the problem and encouraging them to communicate with their children. Still, when the child leaves home, they are going to have to eventually learn to cope with the temptation.

The church is attacking the issue on all fronts which is more aggressive than it was 25 years ago IMHO. Improving its preventive maintenance programs as you referred to is a necessary step. Stake presidencies and bishoporics have also recommended programs for its members who are affected by pornography that are similiar to other 12-step programs but have a definite LDS flavor to them. The LDS.org site has had multiple articles in regards to the Church's effort to combat the issue.

Will the issue be around for the Church to deal with in 25 years?....yes it will be. The LDS church has shown it will never be a bystander on the issue in todays time or the future though.

My 2 cents

[cinepro]

Is there something wrong with our leaders continuing to bring something up if it is a problem?

What I'm asking is if this fight against pornography is the new status quo? I have no idea what the rate of pornography addiction is in the Church, but based on what was said yesterday, it sounds pretty bad. Let's say it's 10% of the young men and men. So have we reached a point where there will always be 10% of the young men and men in the Church addicted to pornography?

I guess I've been assuming it was a temporary concern that would fade away (like poker in the 2000's), but is pornography addiction always to be with us?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

What I'm asking is if this fight against pornography is the new status quo? I have no idea what the rate of pornography addiction is in the Church, but based on what was said yesterday, it sounds pretty bad. Let's say it's 10% of the young men and men. So have we reached a point where there will always be 10% of the young men and men in the Church addicted to pornography?

I guess I've been assuming it was a temporary concern that would fade away (like poker in the 2000's), but is pornography addiction always to be with us?

I think pornography is a much bigger issue, than say poker or birth control. I have seen men that were stead fast in the faith fade away and leave the church and spouse over pornography. Really sad.

Any way I would say that there is more than 10% that struggle with this issue. I know you just threw that number out.

[cinepro]

Any way I would say that there is more than 10% that struggle with this issue. I know you just threw that number out.

I didn't want to be accused of overstating the problem, so I swung low.

I know the Church doesn't know, but it would be fascinating to actually have a reliable statistic on the problem.

I'd love for President Monson to stand in Conference and pronounce a curse upon all members of the Church that seven days hence, any man who has looked at pornography in the previous month and not confessed to his Bishop will have blue ears. I imagine it would be an interesting week for the Bishops of the Church.

[Bernard Gui]

I guess I've been assuming it was a temporary concern that would fade away (like poker in the 2000's), but is pornography addiction always to be with us?

On this issue I'm a confirmed pessimist. This addiction is very difficult to deal with because the triggers are impossible to avoid, and once fixed in the brain, images can be recalled involuntarily. While it's not lethal like substance addictions, it is just as destructive and wreaks havoc all around as loved ones become codependent. Recovery for all the victims is long and painful. it will get worse as porn becomes more and more mainstream.

Bernard

Edited August 1, 2011 by Bernard Gui

[Ariarates]

I think it's an artificial problem created mostly by churches. Most scientific research shows that pornography is not the societal scourge that many churches make it out to be. Elder Faust claimed it is as addictive as cocaine; Elder Wirthlin called it a "plague" that "is swirling about us as never before" and brings "immorality, broken homes, and broken lives" and "will sap spiritual strength". President Monson believes it leads to incest, rape and crime.

These things are not true. The primary users of porn are teenage boys (who used to look at swim suit catalogues or TV guides or whatever medium shows some skin and curves). Those who buy porn, do so for about 15 to 25 dollars a month. They view it 7.7 times a month for 11.6 minutes per time. Hardly the downfall of society or the ruin of families.

It's only an issue for the religious right (that's where most of the scaremongering "research" comes from). It's a means to manipulate believers by inducing fear and guilt about sexuality. Sorry I'm a bit blunt but I am sick and tired of having to sit through talks about this non-issue time and again and then be asked by my 7-year old daughter about "photogramy" which topic would never ever be raised in our home if it weren't for the church.

So, to anwer the OP: I sincerely hope with all my heart that our leaders will be over this obsession by the time I listen to GC with my grandchildren. I have nothing against preaching morals, chastity, modesty, respect, etc. but this incessant talk about porn has to stop. I want to be able to go to church without being confronted with talk about porn and I want the same for my wife and kids. If individual members have a problem with worthiness, there are established ways for the local leadership to deal with that.

Glad to have gotten that off my chest :-)

[Bernard Gui]

I think it's an artificial problem created mostly by churches.

You need to visit a family support group.

Bernard

[Bernard Gui]

I'd love for President Monson to stand in Conference and pronounce a curse upon all members of the Church that seven days hence, any man who has looked at pornography in the previous month and not confessed to his Bishop will have blue ears. I imagine it would be an interesting week for the Bishops of the Church.

Porn addiction is no joke.

Bernard

[DispensatorMysteriorum]

I'd love for President Monson to stand in Conference and pronounce a curse upon all members of the Church that seven days hence, any man who has looked at pornography in the previous month and not confessed to his Bishop will have blue ears. I imagine it would be an interesting week for the Bishops of the Church.

On a Saturday afternoon/evening in Sept/Oct. 2001 I sat in a stake priesthood leadership meeting in the St. Louis South Stake when the visiting authority, Elder White from Canada, said something like this--"There are men in this room who have a problem with pornography. In the name of Jesus Christ I tell you that the sun won't set on Tuesday night before you confess your sins to the proper priesthood authority."

No joke... It was one of the most startling things I have ever experienced in a church meeting.

[cinepro]

Porn addiction is no joke.

Bernard

I was entirely serious.

Maybe another topic for discussion in this thread would be what the Church might do differently to solve (or deal with) the problem? If we have access to the same divine power seen in the Bible and Book of Mormon, how might that power be used to help solve the problem? If God can turn water to blood in Egypt and cause the sun to stop, why not ask him to turn some ears blue?

It's not just an LDS problem. In my line of work, I actually dealt with a Christian line of DVD's and workbooks called "Every Young Man's Battle" (see the trailer below) which are resources for christian churches to help their young men deal with pornography. Lots of other churches are dealing with the same problem.

But as far as I can tell, even with our priesthood power and being led by Jesus Christ himself, we are doing almost the exact same thing all the other non-priesthood, non-Jesus led churches are doing. Denounce it from the pulpit, form support groups. Is there something better?

[Grundelwalken]

I think it's an artificial problem created mostly by churches. Most scientific research shows that pornography is not the societal scourge that many churches make it out to be. Elder Faust claimed it is as addictive as cocaine; Elder Wirthlin called it a "plague" that "is swirling about us as never before" and brings "immorality, broken homes, and broken lives" and "will sap spiritual strength". President Monson believes it leads to incest, rape and crime.

These things are not true. The primary users of porn are teenage boys (who used to look at swim suit catalogues or TV guides or whatever medium shows some skin and curves). Those who buy porn, do so for about 15 to 25 dollars a month. They view it 7.7 times a month for 11.6 minutes per time. Hardly the downfall of society or the ruin of families.

It's only an issue for the religious right (that's where most of the scaremongering "research" comes from). It's a means to manipulate believers by inducing fear and guilt about sexuality. Sorry I'm a bit blunt but I am sick and tired of having to sit through talks about this non-issue time and again and then be asked by my 7-year old daughter about "photogramy" which topic would never ever be raised in our home if it weren't for the church.

So, to anwer the OP: I sincerely hope with all my heart that our leaders will be over this obsession by the time I listen to GC with my grandchildren. I have nothing against preaching morals, chastity, modesty, respect, etc. but this incessant talk about porn has to stop. I want to be able to go to church without being confronted with talk about porn and I want the same for my wife and kids. If individual members have a problem with worthiness, there are established ways for the local leadership to deal with that.

Glad to have gotten that off my chest :-)

Wow, you really believe this???

I work daily with young men and women and can tell you that the problems of pornography are not "artificial". The attitude, bearing, and light of individuals is deeply affected by their involvement. In my church calling I also work with families who have been devastated by the effects of pornography. It DOES bring about "immorality, broken homes and broken lives and WILL sap the spiritual strength of all involved". You cannot have the influence of the Holy Ghost and be involved in pornography. To ignore the seductive and destructive power of this tool of satan is not wise (no offense intended).

In response to the OP: I do not believe porn will ever be defeated in the world and it will continue to capture members of the church who do not protect against it. It is insidious and has not respect for persons. A former stake president in my area lost his membership because he believed he could withstand the power of porn and lost.

I trust our Prophet to give us good counsel. His counsel is to stay away. Just my two-bits. MW

[cinepro]

A former stake president in my area lost his membership because he believed he could withstand the power of porn and lost.

Wait, what was he excommunicated for? For looking at pornography?

[Ariarates]

Wow, you really believe this???

It's not really a matter of belief but of fact. You say you meet people with this "problem" in your church calling; Cinepro mentions other Christian churches. That's all I'm saying: it is an artificial problem created by churches. I live in a thoroughly secular country where porn is freely available and it's simply not an issue.

Sure, there are people with problems and some of those people have problems with sexuality and some of those people have problems with porn - but I tell ya, it's a whole lot less people than the apparently porn-crazed majority of Mormon males that are intimated to fill our chapels every Sunday.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Ariarates

[cinepro]

I live in a thoroughly secular country where porn is freely available and it's simply not an issue.

Just curious, but from your observations, do the LDS local leaders treat the issue any differently (or indifferently)?

[Ariarates]

Just curious, but from your observations, do the LDS local leaders treat the issue any differently (or indifferently)?

Most of them are just uncomfortable discussing the topic when the lesson materials mandate it, and rightly so. Get some boundaries, people. There's the occasional "career Mormon" (you know, the holier than thou ones who really really really want to have important church callings) who rises up to the occasion but the audience is generally embarrased by the subject. Do you like discussing porn in a church setting?

Again, sorry for the cynicism, folks. I guess this bugs me more than I thought. And no, I'm not a porn addict; then again, that's what all porn addicts say.

See? The perfect sword to hold over the members' heads.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Ariarates

[Duncan]

On a Saturday afternoon/evening in Sept/Oct. 2001 I sat in a stake priesthood leadership meeting in the St. Louis South Stake when the visiting authority, Elder White from Canada, said something like this--"There are men in this room who have a problem with pornography. In the name of Jesus Christ I tell you that the sun won't set on Tuesday night before you confess your sins to the proper priesthood authority."

No joke... It was one of the most startling things I have ever experienced in a church meeting.

We had Elder Earl Tingey come Aprilish? 2003 and told men who struggled to go to the Temple to get help. Two years ago our Stake Pres. told men in a Stake Priesthood mtg that M*sturbation leads to murder...while I hope no one believes that I fear that some teen kid sitting there would think that he wouldn't want to kill anyone they could do something else as drastic in an attempt to eliminate the guilt. It seems that counsel on these issues are so over the map that you wouldn't know what to believe, one person says one thing and one says another, "you're bad,give me your recommend" ,"you're good, don't beat yourself up"

[cinepro]

Do you like discussing porn in a church setting?

Last time I taught a lesson on porn and morality in Church, Matthew 5:30 figured prominently into the lesson. I haven't been asked to teach on the subject since.

And I teach the even-numbered Gospel Principles lessons in EQ, so I dodged the bullet this time.