Fire At The Second Coming

[The Nehor]

Also, when one gets right down to it, there are very few people who qualify as 'wicked'.

I could not disagree more strongly. We are all wicked until we repent.

I challenge who believes in this doctrine to take a stab at who might qualify for incineration at the Lords second coming...

Non-mormons?

Non-Christians?

Buddhists?

Gays?

Atheists?

Liberals?

If the parable of the virgins is numerically correct we can expect only about half the Church to be ready for His Coming. Based on the parable I would even limit it to half the active membership. Outside the gospel I expect the percentage will be worse. The divisions you gave don't clarify anything. They talk about affiliations not the choices that will determine the person's fate.

[CV75]

As I understand it God is going to baptize the earth with fire at the second coming of Jesus Christ. Do you believe this is true? I assume this will involve killing millions or billions of people. Does it bother you? Do you think God is capable of doing such a thing?

From 2 Nephi 30 (note verse 10):

RESTORATION

7 And it shall come to pass that the Jews which are scattered also shall begin to believe in Christ; and they shall begin to gather in upon the face of the land; and as many as shall believe in Christ shall also become a delightsome people.

8 And it shall come to pass that the Lord God shall commence his work among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, to bring about the restoration of his people upon the earth.

SECOND COMING

9 And with righteousness shall the Lord God judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth. And he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth; and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

10 For the time speedily cometh that the Lord God shall cause a great division among the people, and the wicked will he destroy; and he will spare his people, yea, even if it so be that he must destroy the wicked by fire.

11 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

MILLENNIUM

12 And then shall the wolf dwell with the lamb; and the leopard shall lie down with the kid, and the calf, and the young lion, and the fatling, together; and a little child shall lead them.

13 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

14 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice

[blackstrap]

Once a person has been able to rationalize away a global flood,then it is relatively easy to rationalize away a global fire storm. Man is quite capable of executing mass destruction by fire( Auschwitz ,Dresden, Tokyo,Hiroshima etc)

Fire(and water)are indiscriminate killers. The effects of an asteroid hit are now well known,So are the results of a massive volcanic explosion like has happened previously at Yellowstone.Don't be too quick to tie God's hands.These disasters have happened in the past with or without God's intervention.Imagine what might transpire preceding an event like the Second Coming.

[SilverKnight]

I could not disagree more strongly. We are all wicked until we repent.

Why?

How is a Buddhist monk in Tibet who lives a life of selfless austerity meditating and gathering yak's milk possibly 'wicked'?

What does he need to repent of?

If the parable of the virgins is numerically correct we can expect only about half the Church to be ready for His Coming. Based on the parable I would even limit it to half the active membership.

So your basing your grim ratios of who will be incinerated off a 2000 year old folk-tale, a symbolic parable at that.

Outside the gospel I expect the percentage will be worse. The divisions you gave don't clarify anything. They talk about affiliations not the choices that will determine the person's fate.

So tell me then.

What choices determine if you will be burned to charcoal on the great and terrible day?

If you rudely cut people off in traffic?

If you didn't do your home teaching often enough?

If you had the misfortune of being born to non-christian parents and chose to follow the religion of your birth?

[JAHS]

"Fire" is often used to describe the Spirit and there is a direct parallel in certain scriptures between baptism of fire and the presence of the Holy Ghost. LDS doctrine also does not teach that the fires of hell are literal, but is instead the internal state of guilt and remorse, etc. I do not think it is necessary to assume that the fire is literal.

I agree to some extent, but then what really happened at Sodom and Gomorrah? It is the glory of God that will "burn" the earth at His coming. Those that cannot abide his glory will be burned. But I don't know what the word "burned" means in this context. Or the words "consumed" or "melt with fervent heat" as in the following scripture:

"And every corruptible thing, both of man, or of the beasts of the field, or of the fowls of the heavens, or of the fish of the sea, that dwells upon all the face of the earth, shall be consumed;

And also that of element shall melt with fervent heat; and all things shall become new, that my knowledge and glory may dwell upon all the earth.

(D&C 101: 24-25)

Sounds literal to me.

[ELF1024]

As I understand it God is going to baptize the earth with fire at the second coming of Jesus Christ. Do you believe this is true? I assume this will involve killing millions or billions of people. Does it bother you? Do you think God is capable of doing such a thing?

I haven't spent much time thinking about it honestly. If God chooses to have literal fire that burns the Earth to a crisp and kills billions, then so be it. Who am I to argue with Diety?

At the same time, the baptism of fire, actually refers to the Holy Ghost, so I think it is just as likely that the Lord's arrival at the Second Coming will be similar to the whole planet being baptized the Holy Ghost bearing testiment of the truthfulness of Jesus Christ.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Read D&C 76 about those who qualify for Terrestrial Glory, that is who you will find are saved over into the Millennium. It is not a matter of what religion you are or all this arbitrary BS people have set up. It should be fairly obvious who the wicked are.

[Calm]

So you believe people who commit misdemeanor crimes deserve a fiery execution when Jesus arrives.

If one thinks of "fiery execution" of something along the lines of pouring gasoline on someone and lighting them up.....I don't think that it going to happen.

I can see how the very wicked who do not repent, who treasure their wickedness so to speak and therefore find themselves unable to endure the presence of God even in the muted form he takes in a Terrestrial world might be 'executed' by a very quick death where the "fire" is the glory of the Lord and they are not quickened so they can endure it. I see that aspect as likely instantaneous and likely painless as I do not see what purpose would be served by having them suffer in that way.

[LDS Guy 1986]

So your basing your grim ratios of who will be incinerated off a 2000 year old folk-tale, a symbolic parable at that.

Seeing that this 2000 year old folk tale came from the mouth of Jesus Christ, yeah I think it is safe to put some weight behind it. The message is perfect coming from a perfect man who is the second member of the Godhead. Now the recording of this tale and it's interpretation is not perfect, of course meaning the that the presented opinion could be wrong.

What is more wrong than any possible incorrect interpretation though is to call the teachings from the mouth of Jesus Christ a folk tale. I didn't know that you were exalted enough on your own to become a critic of the parables of Jesus Christ, please share how you became so perfect so we too can mock the teachings of Christ without fear or concern.

[LDS Guy 1986]

So you believe people who commit misdemeanor crimes deserve a fiery execution when Jesus arrives.

Since when is Christ forced to look at sin based upon the precepts of man's justice?

Isn't his law higher than the carnal laws of man?

So wouldn't one logically assume that some crimes considered minor or not ever wrong by man's standards (maybe like adultery and fornication) are terrible and very serious by the higher Celestial Law?

[LDS Guy 1986]

So you believe people who commit misdemeanor crimes deserve a fiery execution when Jesus arrives.

Also please not that all those crimes were felonies with the exception of kicking a dog, which is a misdemeanor in some states and a felony in others.

Animal abuse is a felony in my state, so all those crimes are felonies where I live.

Maybe you should take a law class, cause in all 50 states Murder and Rape are felonies!

[SilverKnight]

Seeing that this 2000 year old folk tale came from the mouth of Jesus Christ, yeah I think it is safe to put some weight behind it. The message is perfect coming from a perfect man who is the second member of the Godhead. Now the recording of this tale and it's interpretation is not perfect, of course meaning the that the presented opinion could be wrong.

What is more wrong than any possible incorrect interpretation though is to call the teachings from the mouth of Jesus Christ a folk tale. I didn't know that you were exalted enough on your own to become a critic of the parables of Jesus Christ, please share how you became so perfect so we too can mock the teachings of Christ without fear or concern.

Neither you, nor I, nor the smartest biblical scholar in the world, has any idea exactly where the stories of the bible came from.

You have absolutely no idea what the historic Jesus did or did not say.

"The message" is a near-eastern narrative fragment that has gone through countless translation and edits, whose actual historic origin is completely unknown, which may or may not have came from the oral teachings of an actual Nazarene philosopher living in ancient Palestine.

So calling it a folk tale is a highly accurate description, even though it ruffles your little fundamentalist feathers.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Neither you, nor I, nor the smartest biblical scholar in the world, has any idea exactly where the stories of the bible came from.

You have absolutely no idea what the historic Jesus did or did not say.

"The message" is a near-eastern narrative fragment that has gone through countless translation and edits, whose actual historic origin is completely unknown, which may or may not have came from the oral teachings of an actual Nazarene philosopher living in ancient Palestine.

So calling it a folk tale is a highly accurate description, even though it ruffles your little fundamentalist feathers.

I just adore how you try to use that word as an insult in an attempt to shame your opponent. I wear it with pride... Yes, I believe in the fundamentals of the Restored Gospel! Praise be to God!

[LDS Guy 1986]

Neither you, nor I, nor the smartest biblical scholar in the world, has any idea exactly where the stories of the bible came from.

You have absolutely no idea what the historic Jesus did or did not say.

"The message" is a near-eastern narrative fragment that has gone through countless translation and edits, whose actual historic origin is completely unknown, which may or may not have came from the oral teachings of an actual Nazarene philosopher living in ancient Palestine.

So calling it a folk tale is a highly accurate description, even though it ruffles your little fundamentalist feathers.

If that is what you wish then I respect that but through the Power of the Holy Ghost I know that it is truth, does that mean the story is perfectly recorded? No, it doesn't what it does mean though is that the message is from Christ to his Church, and that if there is corrections to be made they will happen when Christ wants them too.

So no, I will not call the teaching of Jesus Christ "folk tales" they are eternal truths, and until we have further clarification from a prophet of God (not a man or scholar who has no inspiration from God on these matters) I follow the teachings of Christ.

You can mock the Lord's teachings at your own risk, just remember that those that deny him (which includes his teachings) on the Earth, he will deny knowing on the day of judgement!

[LDS Guy 1986]

I just adore how you try to use that word as an insult in an attempt to shame your opponent. I wear it with pride... Yes, I believe in the fundamentals of the Restored Gospel! Praise be to God!

Well, those who reject the truth of the Restored Gospel rarely understand that being fundamental to the Gospel is not a bad thing, since Christ is the living Gospel and we all need to be fundamentally following Christ if we seek eternal life.

[SilverKnight]

You can mock the Lord's teachings at your own risk, just remember that those that deny him (which includes his teachings) on the Earth, he will deny knowing on the day of judgement!

Perhaps the Lord will thanks me on judgment day for calling out self-righteous, narrow-minded zealots who damn people to hell on his behalf.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Perhaps the Lord will thanks me on judgment day for calling out self-righteous, narrow-minded zealots who damn people to hell on his behalf.

Interesting... where, pray tell, have LDS Guy1986 or myself self-righteously condemned people to Hell?

Perhaps, you are confused and remembeing someone else?

[Sevenbak]

Perhaps the Lord will thanks me on judgment day for calling out self-righteous, narrow-minded zealots who damn people to hell on his behalf.

The Church's position has already been made clear on this thread. There will be millions of good people, Catholics, Protestants, Islamists, even Atheists, who lived good lives according to the knowledge they had, and didn't live a Telestial law, who will survive into the millennium. The church also makes it clear that those who are wicked and proud will be burned as stubble, with neither root or branch left, and will literally become ashes under the feet of those who are obedient.

That's not damning anyone to hell, that's taking the Lord at His word.

[LDS Guy 1986]

Perhaps the Lord will thanks me on judgment day for calling out self-righteous, narrow-minded zealots who damn people to hell on his behalf.

Well, keep looking cause I didn't mention damning people or hell, in fact the I see you talking about people being damned to hell a lot yet fail to ever show myself or BoMluvr (the fundamentalists you accuse of this practice) do anything of the sort.

All I am doing is presenting the scriptures with a warning, I am not saying anything about your eternal progress or your judgement.

So your false accusation has no reality attached to it whatsoever, I am not damning anyone to anywhere, I am simply presenting the word of God. What you do with that knowledge is between you and Christ and he is the only one that is worthy to make any decision on what reward you shall recieve on the day of judgement.

Warning is not damning, unless you want to add every prophet of the scriptures to your list of "narrow minded zealots who damn people to hell of [Christ's] behalf"

You really need to take a breather and not have the spirit of contention about you when you answer, it doesn't help your position and it definitely leads you to making poorly thought out statements like this one you just made.

[SilverKnight]

Well, keep looking cause I didn't mention damning people or hell, in fact the I see you talking about people being damned to hell a lot yet fail to myself or BoMluvr (the fundamentalists you accuse of this practice) do anything of the sort.

You can mock the Lord's teachings at your own risk, just remember that those that deny him (which includes his teachings) on the Earth, he will deny knowing on the day of judgement!

You really need to take a breather and not have the spirit of contention about you when you answer, it doesn't help your position and it definitely leads you to making poorly thought out statements like this one you just made.

After the 'Not Honoring your Priesthood is Worse Than Mass Murder' thread, I am the last person who needs to reflect on poorly thought out statements.

So back to the subject, who gets burned up at the second coming?

What kind of person will be incinerated, so I can know to not be standing next to them when it happens.

[Sevenbak]

So back to the subject, who gets burned up at the second coming?

Shall we open up another can of worms?

D&C 64:

23Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.

24For after today cometh the burning

[zelder]

So back to the subject, who gets burned up at the second coming?

What kind of person will be incinerated, so I can know to not be standing next to them when it happens.

That is a good question. I think sevenbak is correct; the lord will eliminate telestial people at his coming. D&C 76 descirbes them as liars, scorcerers, adulterers, whoremongers and whosoever loves and makes a lie. It makes perfect sense to me that the bad people need to be eliminated in order to usher in a great era of peace and harmony.

We need to keep in mind that virually everybody will be saved in a kingdom of glory and even the glory the telestial kingdom "surpasses all understanding". Everybody but a handfull of sons of perdition will be saved. God is very merciful and loving.

[LDS Guy 1986]

After the 'Not Honoring your Priesthood is Worse Than Mass Murder' thread, I am the last person who needs to reflect on poorly thought out statements.

There was nothing scripturally or doctrinally wrong with that thread and I have personally asked a member of the Seventy about this and have no need to retract my statements according to what he has said, also the thread wasn't mine actually, so your point is once again based on complete lack of facts.

Now if you even get me solid and contextual evidence that myself, my stake presidency, and a member of the seventy is wrong about this I will gladly give a fully retraction and issue and open apology on this forum and in any other publication you desire (at your expense).

Until then your are bringing up a point that has no reason to be brought up in this forum, and one that you have completely failed to show incorrect while I have reconfirmed the truth of the doctrine several times.

[The Nehor]

Why?

How is a Buddhist monk in Tibet who lives a life of selfless austerity meditating and gathering yak's milk possibly 'wicked'?

We have been guaranteed by God that everyone who lives on this Church except Jesus is a sinner. Your monk sinned.

What does he need to repent of?

His sins.

So your basing your grim ratios of who will be incinerated off a 2000 year old folk-tale, a symbolic parable at that.

What can I say? I take what God says seriously.

So tell me then.

What choices determine if you will be burned to charcoal on the great and terrible day?

All of them.

If you rudely cut people off in traffic?

Don't know, I wouldn't take the risk.

If you didn't do your home teaching often enough?

Don't know, I wouldn't take the risk.

If you had the misfortune of being born to non-christian parents and chose to follow the religion of your birth?

Don't know, I wouldn't take the risk.

[rodheadlee]

So you believe people who commit misdemeanor crimes deserve a fiery execution when Jesus arrives.

No, I think they will be treated as they have treated others. Murderers shall be killed, people who kick hungry homeless dogs will go hungry (during the great tribulation)the powerful that abuse their power will serve the slave etc...