zelder Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 As I understand it God is going to baptize the earth with fire at the second coming of Jesus Christ. Do you believe this is true? I assume this will involve killing millions or billions of people. Does it bother you? Do you think God is capable of doing such a thing?
LDS Guy 1986 Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 As I understand it God is going to baptize the earth with fire at the second coming of Jesus Christ. Do you believe this is true?Yes, I do believe this it is foretold throughout the scriptures and there is no teachings from the modern prophets that I know of to make modification to this truth of the Gospel. I assume this will involve killing millions or billions of people. Does it bother you? Yes, many people will perish that day for there sins and refusing to repent of those sins, without he knowledge of the Restored Gospel that all who do not commit an unforgivable sin will eventually be saved, this would seem a very terrible punishment. In light of the Restored Gospel I know even the worst of those lost souls will inherit a degree of glory in Heaven so there temporary punishment due to there wickedness does not bother me, knowing that eternally they shall be saved. I think the concept my the rest of Christianity that after being destroyed for there wickedness that these poor souls burn in hell forever is far more cruel and unjust. Do you think God is capable of doing such a thing? I know that God and Jesus Christ are capable of this, they hate sin, and they cannot stand to have sin in there sight. They have worked so hard to provide a way for man to repent and be forgiven so when he returns those that refused to listen to his Gospel and repent have received the justice that they were warned would happen. To expect lenience forever and to be allowed to continue to sin, is to foolishly confuse Christ's mercy with weakness, he is merciful to those who repent, but to those who refuse his terrible wrath will pour out upon them when he returns in his glory and power of the Second Coming.
Questing Beast Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 No. I absolutely disbelieve it. To me the whole "second coming" scenario reeks of fundamental "us and them" attitude. It is old as the hills of the Middle East and I want no part in it.A Mormon can believe in the imagery of the "second coming" without believing in it literally. Just like I believe in the imagery of the crucifixion and atonement in the garden of Gethsemane, I do not need a literal sacrifice of an "only begotten Son" by a grief-stricken "God the Father", in order to be convinced by the implied depth of "God's" love for me and everything else: that to me is the power of the story, but it is not a literal historical fact. If I believed in it as a literal historical fact, as written (along with the "warts" of inconsistency), then I would have to accept as well the prophesied literalness of the second coming. That would also mean that I must accept that the OT "Lord" is the very same god who commanded the Israelites to exterminate every man, woman, child and animal in Canaan: which I also reject utterly....
David T Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 I have a feeling that the fire at the second coming will be as literal as the fires of hell. Take that as you will.
Calm Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 "Fire" is often used to describe the Spirit and there is a direct parallel in certain scriptures between baptism of fire and the presence of the Holy Ghost. LDS doctrine also does not teach that the fires of hell are literal, but is instead the internal state of guilt and remorse, etc. I do not think it is necessary to assume that the fire is literal.
The Nehor Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 As I understand it God is going to baptize the earth with fire at the second coming of Jesus Christ.Yes.Do you believe this is true?Yes.I assume this will involve killing millions or billions of people.Probably.Does it bother you?Nope.Do you think God is capable of doing such a thing?Yes. Everyone dies. With 100% consistency. All God did was hurry up the timing for one group as he has before and may do again. We have a God-given revulsion to death and especially to our being the instrument that causes death. This was put there to keep us from screwing around with when people die. God doesn't have that problem. In reality, a sudden burst of cleansing fire is more likely to be painless and quick then dying of old age. Just like dying in war is likely to be less painful and drawn-out then dying of cancer. We aren't guaranteed a long life in any case. I have no guarantee I'll live to see tomorrow.Death isn't the end. Those people are still around and getting ready for paradise (even if some have to go through hell to get there.To make Earth a paradise will require cleansing it. I don't think if God waited we'd be able to convert the world through sweet reason and love. If anything history has shown that the wicked need to be killed to keep the righteous alive. I want to see a millenial day. There, I want God to sweep the wicked from the Earth. Admittedly, I do want to wait a few years at least so I can move further out of that category.
BookofMormonLuvr Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 I believe there will be a cleansing of the wicked (Telestial Level) by fire at the Second Coming, how many people- that is something only God knows. But I believe there will be a lot more left then you think. Anyone that qualifies for Terrestrial Glory, or above (obviously), will be permitted to tarry into the Millennium, unless it is their appointed time to die before He comes again.
zelder Posted March 23, 2011 Author Posted March 23, 2011 "Fire" is often used to describe the Spirit and there is a direct parallel in certain scriptures between baptism of fire and the presence of the Holy Ghost. LDS doctrine also does not teach that the fires of hell are literal, but is instead the internal state of guilt and remorse, etc. I do not think it is necessary to assume that the fire is literal.So you believe that the earth is going to be cleansed by the fire of the Holy Ghost and the fires or hell (remorse for their sins) and everyone will repent at the time of the second coming?
Calm Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 So you believe that the earth is going to be cleansed by the fire of the Holy Ghost and the fires or hell (remorse for their sins) and everyone will repent at the time of the second coming?Personally believe is that it is going to be a combination of things, including some physical events, likely leading up to something that is both a physical and spiritual purification, but what that means for organic life forms on earth I don't know.I am just saying that there is more than one way to interpret what "baptism by fire" means.I also think we should probably be careful making any direct connections between current or future events until we have more revelation on the subject. There are some who assume that the "fire" will be a nuclear holocaust and some of these get antsy when anything nuclear is newsworthy.
katherine the great Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 As I've come to realize that Christians have been expecting a firey apocalypse since shortly after the Savior's death, I've modified my literal interpretation of the second coming. My gggrandfather's patriarchal blessing said that the Savior would return in his lifetime so I wonder if it may happen in a different way than we expect.
zelder Posted March 23, 2011 Author Posted March 23, 2011 As I've come to realize that Christians have been expecting a firey apocalypse since shortly after the Savior's death, I've modified my literal interpretation of the second coming. My gggrandfather's patriarchal blessing said that the Savior would return in his lifetime so I wonder if it may happen in a different way than we expect.The New Tesament states that Jesus will return from heaven in glory. Are you suprised that christians have been waiting for that return for 2,000 years? I'm not.You're not expecting Jesus to come down from heaven to the mount of olives and save the jews from exinction at the battle of armageddon? What is your modified view? Do you think there will be a millennium of peace?
SkepticTheist Posted March 23, 2011 Posted March 23, 2011 1 Corinthians 3:17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.One key to understanding questions like this, whether you believe it or not, is that merit and favor to God has always been based on obedience.Should we be thinking in terms of blessings and cursings and the reasons for them? Is dying really being literally destroyed, or is it merely a curse to be without a body, in terms of what it means to be destroyed?The question really should be, do people consider mortal life in a body a blessing rather than an entitlement? And are they keeping the laws on which that blessing is predicated? If not, should they be blessed with that blessing, or should it be withdrawn?If the blessing of a body is withdrawn because they are an unfit spirit for a temple, is that really God's fault, because they were unfit for a temple? Temple recommends are withdrawn all the time. What if people literally lose their right to be in their temple?Since Satan was cursed to be without a body at all, we should think seriously about why that is the case. And one possibility would be because he was unfit to be in a temple.As I understand it God is going to baptize the earth with fire at the second coming of Jesus Christ. Do you believe this is true? I assume this will involve killing millions or billions of people. Does it bother you? Do you think God is capable of doing such a thing?
zelder Posted March 24, 2011 Author Posted March 24, 2011 1 Corinthians 3:17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.One key to understanding questions like this, whether you believe it or not, is that merit and favor to God has always been based on obedience.Should we be thinking in terms of blessings and cursings and the reasons for them? Is dying really being literally destroyed, or is it merely a curse to be without a body, in terms of what it means to be destroyed?The question really should be, do people consider mortal life in a body a blessing rather than an entitlement? And are they keeping the laws on which that blessing is predicated? If not, should they be blessed with that blessing, or should it be withdrawn?If the blessing of a body is withdrawn because they are an unfit spirit for a temple, is that really God's fault, because they were unfit for a temple? Temple recommends are withdrawn all the time. What if people literally lose their right to be in their temple?Since Satan was cursed to be without a body at all, we should think seriously about why that is the case. And one possibility would be because he was unfit to be in a temple.That's a great perspective. I like it. I believe in a literal glorious second coming of Jesus and I believe that a lot of bad people are going to have to be removed from the earth by fire prior to the great era of peace. I ask the question because I'm curious what others think and why this is a perplexing or difficult idea for some people to accept. It does not bother me at all.
DarkScythe Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 maybe the second coming occurs when we die, at least for some people. A Morbid thought.
Jeff K. Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 I personally don't know. I think, like Calimoria that it might indeed be a combination of things. The visions themselves may have been a reflection of a pretechnological man's understanding, or it may be literal. I have seen good arguments for both sides (scripturally at least). In the end I am still left without a convincing position for either side.
Cherubbish Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 "Fire" is often used to describe the Spirit and there is a direct parallel in certain scriptures between baptism of fire and the presence of the Holy Ghost. LDS doctrine also does not teach that the fires of hell are literal, but is instead the internal state of guilt and remorse, etc. I do not think it is necessary to assume that the fire is literal.I really like this concept. I've never thought of it in these terms before. It's much more appealing than a literal burning. I think the world would be infused with the Spirit at the time of His coming and the wicked will not be able to stand at his coming, just like oil doesn't mix with water. It makes the scripture about how they will want to hide in the rocks or have the mountains fall upon them to hide themselves more meaningful to me.
Cherubbish Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 I really like this concept. I've never thought of it in these terms before. It's much more appealing than a literal burning. I think the world would be infused with the Spirit at the time of His coming and the wicked will not be able to stand at his coming, just like oil doesn't mix with water. It makes the scripture about how they will want to hide in the rocks or have the mountains fall upon them to hide themselves more meaningful to me.Why would they feel the need to run and hide and have the mountains fall upon them if they were literally burned? (Rev. 6:15-17)
Calm Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Why would they feel the need to run and hide and have the mountains fall upon them if they were literally burned? (Rev. 6:15-17)Good point, I hadn't made that connection myself.
Sevenbak Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 As I understand it, only the very wicked will be destroyed. Those living the Terrestrial law and above, including non-believers will survive the 2nd coming and live into the Millennium.Here's what the Instutue Manual says:
SilverKnight Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 As I understand it God is going to baptize the earth with fire at the second coming of Jesus Christ. Do you believe this is true? Literally? Nope.I assume this will involve killing millions or billions of people. Does it bother you? Yes, so I don't think it will happen.Do you think God is capable of doing such a thing?No. The idea is repugnant to my idea of an omnibenevolent creator god.Also, when one gets right down to it, there are very few people who qualify as 'wicked'.I challenge who believes in this doctrine to take a stab at who might qualify for incineration at the Lords second coming...Non-mormons?Non-Christians?Buddhists?Gays?Atheists?Liberals?
semlogo Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 "Fire" is often used to describe the Spirit and there is a direct parallel in certain scriptures between baptism of fire and the presence of the Holy Ghost. LDS doctrine also does not teach that the fires of hell are literal, but is instead the internal state of guilt and remorse, etc. I do not think it is necessary to assume that the fire is literal.That's how I take it, too.
rodheadlee Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Literally? Nope.Yes, so I don't think it will happen.No. The idea is repugnant to my idea of an omnibenevolent creator god.Also, when one gets right down to it, there are very few people who qualify as 'wicked'.I challenge who believes in this doctrine to take a stab at who might qualify for incineration at the Lords second coming...Non-mormons?Non-Christians?Buddhists?Gays?Atheists?Liberals?MurderersRapistThievesPower MongersPeople who kick homeless dogs instead of feeding them
SilverKnight Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 MurderersRapistThievesPower MongersPeople who kick homeless dogs instead of feeding themSo you believe people who commit misdemeanor crimes deserve a fiery execution when Jesus arrives.
Thunderfire Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 As I understand it God is going to baptize the earth with fire at the second coming of Jesus Christ. Do you believe this is true? I assume this will involve killing millions or billions of people. Does it bother you? Do you think God is capable of doing such a thing?When I was young I believed in a literal fire which would destroy all the evil. Yet the more I read in scripture, my view started changing. I started seeing this not as his literal destruction of the earth, but his process of purification. As example:In III Nephi, Jesus is telling the people of the importance of Malachi
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