Net or Gross Tithing?

[cion]

If you aren't paying now due to changes in your faith or some other reason, please indicate what you personally would do as a faithful LDS under normal circumstances.

Thank you!

[awesome0]

If you aren't paying now due to changes in your faith or some other reason, please indicate what you personally would do as a faithful LDS under normal circumstances.

Thank you!

Whatever they understand the scriptures to mean. I personally think it refers to increase in personal wealth. Such a definition is also robust to increases due to home production and tax methods the state might use and also the disproportionately large tax burder the wealthy bear for services everyone enjoys.

[thesometimesaint]

cion:

Depends. Do you want blessings based on your net income or gross income?

[awesome0]

cion:

Depends. Do you want blessings based on your net income or gross income?

Nowhere in D&C 119 does it outline material blessings to come from paying tithing. Read D&C 119 where modern tithing is revealed. The "windows of heaven blessing" is based in Malachi, which referred to the Old testament tithing which was very different from ours. The blessing of paying tithing as outlined in D&C 119 is sanctification.

BTW, the gross vs. net line was one that originated with evangelical preachers.

[katherine the great]

cion:

Depends. Do you want blessings based on your net income or gross income?

Some people don't pay tithing in order to receive blessings but to show love for God through obedience.

[bluebell]

cion:

Depends. Do you want blessings based on your net income or gross income?

As long as a person is sincerely paying a full tithe as they understand it based on what the prophets have said, i don't think there is a difference in blessings depending on whether it's paid on net or gross.

[LDSToronto]

Gross. I get a bigger tax return at the end of the year. In fact, my tax refund cheque amounts to about 60% of my tithing payments for the year...

[thesometimesaint]

awesome0, katherine the great, bluebell:

I know a nice older lady member of the Church that that no independent income. Her non member husband was against paying tithing(he is now a member, so it is no problem). But she is always there to help the Church in other ways. I believe she gets blessings by the 144 weight.

[Garden Girl]

cion:

Depends. Do you want blessings based on your net income or gross income?

cion: Actually, TSS doesn't mention anything about "material" blessings... he refers only to "blessings" which can be anything from the material to the spiritual.

I pay on gross throughout the year, but am careful to take any deductions legitimately available to me at tax time, including those for contributions. It all works out the way I'm supposed to have it work out.

GG

[katherine the great]

I think tithing is supposed to be a sacrifice of sorts. If it doesn't hurt a bit, it isn't really a sacrifice. Of course there are always spiritual blessings to be had, but the Lord sends rain to the just and the unjust.

[sunstoned]

Our family selects three or four charities each year to donate to. These organizations have to have open books, and be non-profit. We give ten percent of our net, so I consider this tithing.

[LeSellers]

We give ten percent of our net to three or four charities], so I consider this tithing.

Let's hope God does.

Lehi

[awesome0]

If you have done it unto one of the least of these, thy brothern, you have done it unto me.

When you are in the service of your fellow being, you are only in the service of your God.

[LeSellers]

If you have done it unto one of the least of these, thy brothern, you have done it unto me.

When you are in the service of your fellow being, you are only in the service of your God.

What is this about?

It helps if you quote the message you're responding to.

Lehi

[awesome0]

What is this about?

It helps if you quote the message you're responding to.

Lehi

It was direct towards your commend which suggested God would not consider donating money to those who needed it as tithing.

[BCSpace]

Gross. I get a bigger tax return at the end of the year. In fact, my tax refund cheque amounts to about 60% of my tithing payments for the year...

Do you pay tithing on your tax return? Just curious. A tax return for me can include an actual reduction in taxes as well as tax credits which can be said to increase my income.

[LeSellers]

It was direct towards your commend which suggested God would not consider donating money to those who needed it as tithing.

And I contend that it is not tithing. The mechanisms are wholly different. The purposes are different. Sunstoned process could be classified as "offerings" or "donations", both good in and of themselves, but they are not tithing. The Lord has said that tithing must go through the bishop, not the Salvation Army.

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord, I require all their surplus property to be put into the hands of the bishop of my church in Zion, 2 For the building of mine house, and for the laying of the foundation of Zion and for the priesthood, and for the debts of the Presidency of my Church.

3 And this shall be the beginning of the tithing of my people. 4 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.

It says nothing here about tithing's being for the poor and needy, that's covered by other offerings and donations. Moreover, in section 120, we read who is authorized by God to disperse His monies.

1 Verily, thus saith the Lord, the time is now come, that it shall be disposed of by a council, composed of the First Presidency of my Church, and of the bishop and his council, and by my high council; and by mine own voice unto them, saith the Lord. Even so. Amen.

I do not see my name there, nor Sunstoned's, nor yours. Apparently none of the three of us gets to determine how the tithing of the Lord is to be allocated.

Lehi

[LDS Truthseeker]

Our family selects three or four charities each year to donate to. These organizations have to have open books, and be non-profit. We give ten percent of our net, so I consider this tithing.

We do something similar. The LDS church doesn't consider this tithing. However, the poor people receiving our contributions like victims of floods, hunger and disease consider it a welcome gift and not merely an obligation. Frankly these people need our charitable contributions far more than the church does. I bet God likes what we do with our voluntary contributions too even if our bishop doesn't.

[awesome0]

Fair enough, good points.

I do think there is another discussion to be had though of what constitutes interest, or surplus properties.

[LeSellers]

Fair enough, good points.

I do think there is another discussion to be had though of what constitutes interest, or surplus properties.

What is this about?

It helps if you quote the message you're responding to.

Lehi

[krose]

We do something similar. The LDS church doesn't consider this tithing.

As do we as non-LDS.

But I would like to see whether a bishop would deny a temple recommend to a member who provided proof of giving 10% or more to the poor (including a large amount in fast offerings), rather than paying tithing. I wonder how many would insist on following the letter of the law?

[Stargazer]

My personal understanding of tithing was that it was to be paid for its sake alone, i.e. it was commanded of us, and regardless of whether we are blessed because of it, or not.

I answered that I pay it on net. "Net" does not mean what is left after my normal expenses, but what I get after mandatory deductions due to taxes -- these I take to be "cost of doing business", and are totally out of my control. If an expense that I have control over whether it appears on my pay stub, then this is not a cost of doing business, unless it is a mandatory insurance that I stand to benefit from.

Thus:

I DO NOT tithe the money that is taken for federal withholding, and adjust depending upon how much I actually end up paying the government.

I DO NOT tithe the money that is taken for Social Security -- but I will tithe the money I receive from SS when I begin collecting from the system

I DO tithe the money paid for Medicare, because I treat it as a form of insurance premium

Everything else is tithed.

I have a business that has mainly lost money over the years, and just as I have used its losses to offset income for income tax, I use the losses to offset income that I tithe as well. One of these days my business ventures will pay off, I hope!

[Sky]

I personally choose to pay my tithing on gross income, just for the sake of being on

[saemo]

Gross. I get a bigger tax return at the end of the year. In fact, my tax refund cheque amounts to about 60% of my tithing payments for the year...

FYI: A big tax return means you didn't calculate your tax deduction amount correctly. It also means you're letting government hang on to your money, with no interest paid to you.

[LDS Truthseeker]

As do we as non-LDS.

But I would like to see whether a bishop would deny a temple recommend to a member who provided proof of giving 10% or more to the poor (including a large amount in fast offerings), rather than paying tithing. I wonder how many would insist on following the letter of the law?

Someone had emailed me and told me that they had told the bishop in a tithing settlement interview that he had donated a full 10% to other charities and I believe he brought some proof of that and the bishop said that was great but none of that would count towards him being considered a tithe payer to the church. So the bishop said unless he ponied up another 10% and to the church, he would not be considered a tithe payer and could not get a temple recommend.

Also, he shouldn't even have to provide proof as you don't have to provide proof if you donate directly to Salt Lake. I use to do that and the bishop had no idea what I paid.