Someone from our ward finally reached out to us

[Notatbm]

So my wife and I have been inactive for two plus years now. To my knowledge the only person who has ever reached out to us in an official capacity was to offer me a calling about a year ago. Of course I said no. Didn’t even ask me at the time why we were not coming to church. I suppose he was afraid to ask?? 

anyway the silence has been broken, we have been invited to tithing settlement… it’s August and they are already doing this? 
 

frankly I’m glad none of our “friends” bug us, but it is kinda wierd the only time they wanna talk or check in is to get some money out of us. 

that is all
 

 

[Tony uk]

Maybe the silence from the Church, could have been a well intentioned attempt at giving yourself some space to overcome whatever concerns that may exist. The infrequent attempts to contact you, although in a official capacity, may have been a attempt to test the water. Also, the attempt at gaining a financial donation, may have been in the belief that you are still an active supporter, if not a regular attendee.

[Amulek]

7 hours ago, Notatbm said:

So my wife and I have been inactive for two plus years now. To my knowledge the only person who has ever reached out to us in an official capacity was to offer me a calling about a year ago. Of course I said no. Didn’t even ask me at the time why we were not coming to church. I suppose he was afraid to ask?? 

anyway the silence has been broken, we have been invited to tithing settlement… it’s August and they are already doing this? 

frankly I’m glad none of our “friends” bug us, but it is kinda wierd the only time they wanna talk or check in is to get some money out of us. 

that is all

I’m not sure I’d read that invitation as “the only time they want to talk is when they want money.”

Tithing Declaration is opening in September this year, so wards are presumably starting to get appointments organized now. And the purpose of Tithing Declaration is pretty literal: members are invited to declare their tithing status. You don’t have to pay anything at the meeting, and being invited doesn’t mean anyone is specifically asking you for money.

When you say this “broke the silence,” was this actually a personal visit from the bishop, or was it just an email/text from the executive secretary asking people to sign up? I mean, was it even specific to you, or was it basically a generic invitation being sent to everyone?

 

[Navidad]

If anyone is interested, when we were faithful nonmember participants in the ward, we were not allowed to tithe. We were, however, allowed to donate to the fast offering. They gave us envelopes to do so. 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

If anyone is interested, when we were faithful nonmember participants in the ward, we were not allowed to tithe. We were, however, allowed to donate to the fast offering. They gave us envelopes to do so. 

That makes sense.

[Notatbm]

7 hours ago, Tony uk said:

Maybe the silence from the Church, could have been a well intentioned attempt at giving yourself some space to overcome whatever concerns that may exist. The infrequent attempts to contact you, although in an official capacity, may have been an attempt to test the water. Also, the attempt at gaining a financial donation, may have been in the belief that you are still an active supporter, if not a regular attendee.

I don’t know about giving me any space. We just stopped showing up. No fanfare just disappeared. The fact our subdivision is the boundary of our ward and my property along borders with three other ward members just on my side of the street alone people know we have not gone anywhere and are alive. 
 

no one has reached out. That said I don’t really care, just surprised as my whole existence in the church we as home teachers and the women in relief society were essentially tasked with borderline harassing people to come back. Since that’s not going on I’m thankful.

[Notatbm]

4 hours ago, Amulek said:

I’m not sure I’d read that invitation as “the only time they want to talk is when they want money.”

that is the only communication we have received other than the attempt at putting me in a calling. The only communication in a couple years. Last year we were not solicited to tithing settlement.

4 hours ago, Amulek said:

Tithing Declaration is opening in September this year, so wards are presumably starting to get appointments organized now. And the purpose of Tithing Declaration is pretty literal: members are invited to declare their tithing status. You don’t have to pay anything at the meeting, and being invited doesn’t mean anyone is specifically asking you for money.

I know what tithing settlement is. I’ve been a member nearly sixty years. 

4 hours ago, Amulek said:

When you say this “broke the silence,” was this actually a personal visit from the bishop, or was it just an email/text from the executive secretary asking people to sign up? I mean, was it even specific to you, or was it basically a generic invitation being sent to everyone?

 

Personal email to my wife addressed to both of us. It wasn’t a canned message blasted to all. Both our emails are on lds tools. We don’t get communication about anything else. Previously we would get emails about ward activities, etc on both our accounts. After about six months after we bailed those stopped. That is a calculated decision which is fine. 
 

 

[bluebell]

40 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

We don’t get communication about anything else. Previously we would get emails about ward activities, etc on both our accounts. After about six months after we bailed those stopped. That is a calculated decision which is fine. 
 

 

Makes me wonder if there’s either a new bishop or a new executive secretary. 

[MustardSeed]

12 hours ago, Notatbm said:

frankly I’m glad none of our “friends” bug us, but it is kinda wierd the only time they wanna talk or check in is to get some money out of us. 

It’s probably not that deep. Probably just a secretary doing his duty.  He probably didn’t think twice about trying to get any money out of you (or once for that matter). He probably contacted 300 other people as well and then went home and had a sandwich.
I mean, it’s an easy problem to solve. “ hey we were contacted for tithing settlement and we would prefer to be on a no contact list.  We will not be coming in for tithing settlement.” 
Unless you do want to be able to be contacted, so you can test whether you are cared about and who wants your money.

Edited 8 hours ago by MustardSeed

[Amulek]

3 hours ago, Navidad said:

If anyone is interested, when we were faithful nonmember participants in the ward, we were not allowed to tithe. We were, however, allowed to donate to the fast offering. They gave us envelopes to do so. 

This is because the Church treats "paying tithing" as part of a member's covenant / religious obligations, rather than simply meaning "someone giving 10% of their income to the Church." 

So, while nonmembers are free to make contributions to the Church - even contributions that they feel religiously motivated to make, say, to the exact sum of 10% of their income - the Church, administratively, does not call that donation tithing.

Advising you to categorize your contributions as Fast Offerings seems like good counsel, since it allows those funds to address the kinds of needs you likely intended them to serve - such as helping members of the local congregation who are in need.

 

[Notatbm]

58 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Makes me wonder if there’s either a new bishop or a new executive secretary. 

Same guys

[Notatbm]

50 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

It’s probably not that deep. Probably just a secretary doing his duty.  He probably didn’t think twice about trying to get any money out of you (or once for that matter). He probably contacted 300 other people as well and then went home and had a sandwich.
I mean, it’s an easy problem to solve. “ hey we were contacted for tithing settlement and we would prefer to be on a no contact list.  We will not be coming in for tithing settlement.” 
Unless you do want to be able to be contacted, so you can test whether you are cared about and who wants your money.

Yea he sent 299 spam mails and one personalized to us. I know what a spammed bcc email looks like and this wasn’t unless the church got some technology that individually addresses the recipients by their first names and can do so with a bcc function. The guy that sent it… we know very well personally so it isnt like he was oblivious.  
 

im not annoyed i was contacted, im amused that the only reach out is for money. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Notatbm

[Amulek]

1 hour ago, Notatbm said:

that is the only communication we have received other than the attempt at putting me in a calling. The only communication in a couple years. Last year we were not solicited to tithing settlement.

Or maybe you just didn't receive / see the email last year.

These emails are typically sent out through LCR which doesn't always play nice with all email providers. And, even when it does go through, it will sometimes get flagged as spam. Everything that gets sent out via LCR goes directly to my junk folder. I gave up on caring about fixing it some time ago.

 

1 hour ago, Notatbm said:

I know what tithing settlement is. I’ve been a member nearly sixty years. 

Then you ought to know better, which is why I think it's in bad form to characterize the invitation as them contacting you because they "want money."

If you've been a member for nearly sixty years, then you know perfectly well that Tithing Declaration isn't the bishop calling people in to collect a payment.

 

1 hour ago, Notatbm said:

Personal email to my wife addressed to both of us. It wasn’t a canned message blasted to all. Both our emails are on lds tools. We don’t get communication about anything else. Previously we would get emails about ward activities, etc on both our accounts. After about six months after we bailed those stopped. That is a calculated decision which is fine. 

Fair enough. I'm not sure it changes the underlying point though. Your bishop has a reason, independent of your donation history, to invite the members of his ward to Tithing Declaration. The fact that he or his secretary personally contacted you about it doesn't establish that the purpose was to solicit money from you.

 

[Amulek]

2 minutes ago, Notatbm said:

Yea he sent 299 spam mails and one personalized to us. I know what a spammed bcc email looks like. 

I'm an executive secretary myself, and a software developer by trade. I wouldn't put much weight on personalization as evidence of that anymore. Producing individualized emails from a membership list is trivially easy, particularly with the AI tools (freely) available today. Maybe your bishop really did single the two of you out for a personal invitation - I have no idea. But I don't think the fact that the email looked individually composed establishes that.

 

[Notatbm]

44 minutes ago, Amulek said:

Or maybe you just didn't receive / see the email last year.

These emails are typically sent out through LCR which doesn't always play nice with all email providers. And, even when it does go through, it will sometimes get flagged as spam. Everything that gets sent out via LCR goes directly to my junk folder. I gave up on caring about fixing it some time ago.

I suppose if I never  looked at my junk folder that would be a possibility, but since i do routinely review ( at least weekly)and purge both junk/spam id know very soon after a church email was sent to me as I would see it. Also, before we stopped going the two or three massages a week from the ward didn’t have any trouble finding my regular in box so yes…. They stopped sending us any correspondence. Except for one exception- tithing settlement. That’s no accident. 

44 minutes ago, Amulek said:

 

Then you ought to know better, which is why I think it's in bad form to characterize the invitation as them contacting you because they "want money."

If you've been a member for nearly sixty years, then you know perfectly well that Tithing Declaration isn't the bishop calling people in to collect a payment.

when did they stop collecting tithing from people at tithing settlement? For the cash and check writers. Tithing settlement is designed to guilt people into paying. Lots of people don’t pay a full tithe, but if they still show up to settlement there’s a chance they will settle up.  

 

44 minutes ago, Amulek said:

 

Fair enough. I'm not sure it changes the underlying point though. Your bishop has a reason, independent of your donation history, to invite the members of his ward to Tithing Declaration. The fact that he or his secretary personally contacted you about it doesn't establish that the purpose was to solicit money from you.

 

Ok.. tell me why he wants to see me now and has completely ignored me for 2.5 yrs. 

Edited 7 hours ago by Notatbm

[SeekingUnderstanding]

2 hours ago, Notatbm said:

I don’t know about giving me any space. We just stopped showing up. No fanfare just disappeared. The fact our subdivision is the boundary of our ward and my property along borders with three other ward members just on my side of the street alone people know we have not gone anywhere and are alive. 
 

no one has reached out. That said I don’t really care, just surprised as my whole existence in the church we as home teachers and the women in relief society were essentially tasked with borderline harassing people to come back. Since that’s not going on I’m thankful.

With your peachy disposition, this is very surprising ;). Our experience was the opposite. We left abruptly (from the outside at least). We communicated boundaries pretty firmly to close friends and ward leaders, but had several people reach out regardless (including a signed Book of Mormon!). Friendly but firm no's were required and now we don't get approached about church from anyone, though the missionaries top by a couple times a year (I doubt this frequency is above any non-members where we live in Kaysville, UT). 

[Notatbm]

7 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

With your peachy disposition, this is very surprising ;). Our experience was the opposite. We left abruptly (from the outside at least). We communicated boundaries pretty firmly to close friends and ward leaders, but had several people reach out regardless (including a signed Book of Mormon!). Friendly but firm no's were required and now we don't get approached about church from anyone, though the missionaries top by a couple times a year (I doubt this frequency is above any non-members where we live in Kaysville, UT). 

I had no reason to be confrontational or angry or whatever with anyone in my ward. It is 100% a problem with the church itself. No reason for me to be an *** on the way out the door and no reason to set boundaries unless someone was gonna start one of theirs bs we love and miss you campaigns. Missionaries did stop by a couple times but they always did that. It has been about a year since we have had them knocking. 
 

I just had to laugh yesterday when my wife got the personalized tithing settlement invite.  Radio silence for over two years then this lol. 

[webbles]

1 hour ago, Notatbm said:

Yea he sent 299 spam mails and one personalized to us. I know what a spammed bcc email looks like and this wasn’t unless the church got some technology that individually addresses the recipients by their first names and can do so with a bcc function. The guy that sent it… we know very well personally so it isnt like he was oblivious.  

If the "personalization" is just adding your first name, that technology has existed for decades now.  Pretty much as soon as spam was invented, that technology existed.  I would not consider that to be a personal email but just another mass email.  The same thing is possible with texting as well.  So if you see a text that just has your name as the only personalization and the rest of the text looks like it is a spam, that's probably what was used.

This sounds very much like he pushed a button on the screen and it sent out a mass email to all members.

[Notatbm]

16 minutes ago, webbles said:

If the "personalization" is just adding your first name, that technology has existed for decades now.  Pretty much as soon as spam was invented, that technology existed.  I would not consider that to be a personal email but just another mass email.  The same thing is possible with texting as well.  So if you see a text that just has your name as the only personalization and the rest of the text looks like it is a spam, that's probably what was used.

This sounds very much like he pushed a button on the screen and it sent out a mass email to all members.

That’s possible but in the past, none of the emails were personalized just said something like “dear ward family.” From the same guy that sent this one. And it wasn’t all official with a scheduling link and all. One of the comments was if you guys would like to come in please let me know and I’ll schedule you with the bishop or something like that. Doesn’t read like any canned settlement email I ever got. 
 

it reads more like “yea the bishop and I know yall don’t want to come in but just throwing it out there in case. “

Edited 6 hours ago by Notatbm

[Amulek]

1 hour ago, Notatbm said:

I suppose if I never  looked at my junk folder that would be a possibility, but since i do routinely review ( at least weekly)and purge both junk/spam id know very soon after a church email was sent to me as I would see it. Also, before we stopped going the two or three massages a week from the ward didn’t have any trouble finding my regular in box so yes…. They stopped sending us any correspondence. Except for one exception- tithing settlement. That’s no accident. 

Or you (or your wife) unsubscribed, or changed the privacy settings in your LDS Account, or simply stopped falling within whatever recipient groups people were using to send those messages.

LCR doesn't require every ward email to be sent to "all members." You can select various groups of recipients, including groups based on organizations and callings. So if the emails you used to receive were Relief Society emails, quorum emails, activity announcements sent to particular groups, etc., it's entirely possible for your pattern of receiving ward email to change without somebody making a "calculated decision" to stop communicating with you. 

I don't have any first-hand knowledge of what actually happened in your case, obviously. Maybe someone really did deliberately exclude you. But you're treating your inference as an established fact when there are much more mundane possibilities.

And Tithing Declaration is different from ordinary communications because the Church says all members are invited to meet with the bishop to declare their status. As such, I don't find it particularly suspicious that someone who hasn't been receiving other generic emails would nevertheless receive an invitation to Tithing Declaration.

 

1 hour ago, Notatbm said:

when did they stop collecting tithing from people at tithing settlement? For the cash and check writers. Tithing settlement is designed to guilt people into paying. Lots of people don’t pay a full tithe, but if they still show up to settlement there’s a chance they will settle up.  

You're conflating "people can make donations while they are there" with "that's what the meeting is for."

Tithing Declaration goes from 9/1 - 12/15 now, so what ledger do you suppose people are supposed to be settling up in September, October, or November?

The Handbook states that the purpose of the meeting is to (1) declare your own status, and (2) make sure your contribution records are accurate. You are free to declare yourself as a full, partial, or non-tithe payer.

In all the times I've served as a Ward Clerk, I've never once had the Bishop walk out of a Tithing Declaration (previously, Tithing Settlement meeting) and ask me to prepare an invoice for the family. 

You can believe the meeting exerts social or religious pressure to pay tithing - I think there's an element of that involved as well - but that's quite different from claiming its purpose is to get people in the room so the Church can collect money from them. 

 

1 hour ago, Notatbm said:

Ok.. tell me why he wants to see me now and has completely ignored me for 2.5 yrs. 

I already did: because it's Tithing Declaration, and Bishops are instructed to invite all members to attend.

I'm not surprised that you received an invitation to attend an annual, Church-wide process that you are supposed to be invited to - even if you didn't personally receive an invitation last year.

Maybe the Bishop / Executive Secretary has gotten better at sending out invites; maybe he felt inspired to reach out to everyone this year individually, rather than just announcing it over the pulpit during Sacrament Meetings; maybe he's following direction from the Stake President who emphasized it in their most recent leadership training meetings. It could literally be any number of things other than "they want money."

Look, I'm sorry if you feel your Ward has ignored you for the last 2.5 years, and it's sad that the first personal contact you've received recently has been an administrative invitation to Tithing Declaration. If that were your only complaint, I would be fine with that.

But you don't leave it there - instead, you keep changing it into 'after 2.5 years they finally contacted me because they want money,' and I just don't think that's what's going on. 

 

[Notatbm]

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

Or you (or your wife) unsubscribed, or changed the privacy settings in your LDS Account, or simply stopped falling within whatever recipient groups people were using to send those messages.

just checked lds tools. Where do you unsubscribe at ? We r listed as EQ and rs members. 

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

 

Maybe the Bishop / Executive Secretary has gotten better at sending out invites; 

he has gotten worse. He forgot the signup genius link so now he has to take three hundred phone calls…. Or just mine if I make it cuz it was an individual email. 

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

Look, I'm sorry if you feel your Ward has ignored you for the last 2.5 years, and it's sad that the first personal contact you've received recently has been an administrative invitation to Tithing Declaration. If that were your only complaint, I would be fine with that.

It’s not really a complaint… it’s more of a “yea that figures “

[MustardSeed]

3 hours ago, Notatbm said:

tell me why he wants to see me now

Honestly? I can’t begin to imagine. 

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Notatbm said:

the two or three massages a week from the ward

I want to go to your ward….

[Rain]

4 hours ago, Amulek said:

Or you (or your wife) unsubscribed, or changed the privacy settings in your LDS Account, or simply stopped falling within whatever recipient groups people were using to send those messages.

LCR doesn't require every ward email to be sent to "all members." You can select various groups of recipients, including groups based on organizations and callings. So if the emails you used to receive were Relief Society emails, quorum emails, activity announcements sent to particular groups, etc., it's entirely possible for your pattern of receiving ward email to change without somebody making a "calculated decision" to stop communicating with you. 

I don't have any first-hand knowledge of what actually happened in your case, obviously. Maybe someone really did deliberately exclude you. But you're treating your inference as an established fact when there are much more mundane possibilities.

And Tithing Declaration is different from ordinary communications because the Church says all members are invited to meet with the bishop to declare their status. As such, I don't find it particularly suspicious that someone who hasn't been receiving other generic emails would nevertheless receive an invitation to Tithing Declaration.

 

You're conflating "people can make donations while they are there" with "that's what the meeting is for."

Tithing Declaration goes from 9/1 - 12/15 now, so what ledger do you suppose people are supposed to be settling up in September, October, or November?

The Handbook states that the purpose of the meeting is to (1) declare your own status, and (2) make sure your contribution records are accurate. You are free to declare yourself as a full, partial, or non-tithe payer.

Not who you were talking to and not complaing, but this has been the oddest thing to me. I have not understood why temple reccomend holders need something more (1.) than their reccomends. You don't have a separate meeting to declare your WoW status or one to declare your chastity status etc. All those things are declared in the temple interview. I understand for people who don't have a reccomend.

As for #2, that can now be done at home, much more easily, on the computer, for those that have that access. 

4 hours ago, Amulek said:

In all the times I've served as a Ward Clerk, I've never once had the Bishop walk out of a Tithing Declaration (previously, Tithing Settlement meeting) and ask me to prepare an invoice for the family. 

You can believe the meeting exerts social or religious pressure to pay tithing - I think there's an element of that involved as well - but that's quite different from claiming its purpose is to get people in the room so the Church can collect money from them. 

 

I already did: because it's Tithing Declaration, and Bishops are instructed to invite all members to attend.

I'm not surprised that you received an invitation to attend an annual, Church-wide process that you are supposed to be invited to - even if you didn't personally receive an invitation last year.

Maybe the Bishop / Executive Secretary has gotten better at sending out invites; maybe he felt inspired to reach out to everyone this year individually, rather than just announcing it over the pulpit during Sacrament Meetings; maybe he's following direction from the Stake President who emphasized it in their most recent leadership training meetings. It could literally be any number of things other than "they want money."

Look, I'm sorry if you feel your Ward has ignored you for the last 2.5 years, and it's sad that the first personal contact you've received recently has been an administrative invitation to Tithing Declaration. If that were your only complaint, I would be fine with that.

But you don't leave it there - instead, you keep changing it into 'after 2.5 years they finally contacted me because they want money,' and I just don't think that's what's going on. 

 

 

[Rain]

3 hours ago, Notatbm said:

just checked lds tools. Where do you unsubscribe at ? We r listed as EQ and rs members. 

he has gotten worse. He forgot the signup genius link so now he has to take three hundred phone calls…. Or just mine if I make it cuz it was an individual email. 

It’s not really a complaint… it’s more of a “yea that figures “

The church has really not wanted sign up lists, but not everyone follows that. My husband was executive secretary years ago when they really came down on not having lists that everyone could see and for people to be contacted individually. Poor guy absolutely hates the phone and he had to make all those calls.

In recent years, I've seen them announce to meet the exec sec out in the foyer after sacrament meeting and that really cut down the calls/emails for those in those callings those years. They were still supposed to contact those who didn't contact them. 

 

Edited 39 minutes ago by Rain