Seeking Particular Blessings Connected To Obedience Of Certain Commandmants

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, JVW said:

I learned in 2011 that I am a very poor judge when trying to determine what is a blessing and what is a curse in my life. I got a broken neck as the passenger in a 75 mph rollover car accident in the Nevada desert. At the time I thought it was the worst thing that had ever happened to me, but upon reflection over the years I think it was one of the best things that's ever happened to me; the fallout (good and bad) from that event still ripples through my life to this very day.

One thing I've been working through as part of my 12 step recovery is to recognize my addiction as a gift and blessing and not a curse. To be grateful to God for it instead of being angry at Him for the ways I've been a victim and slave to my addictions.

Weakness is a gift from God. But there are many instances in which those gifts are a curse instead of a blessing and I find it nearly impossible to tell the difference.

I read recently from a randomly interviewed Jewish women that in Jewish culture they view three things as God's greatest blessings: health, wealth, and family. I would add to that "knowledge" because "to be learned is good if you hearken to the counsels of God" according to the Book of Mormon. However, in the end, any of these perceived blessings can be curses. Though if those are the greatest blessings then I suppose one could use how much of each of those they have as a barometer for how well they are following God, but I don't think that's fair or right when we all have such unique and individual circumstances.

I think it's dangerous to try and attribute specific blessings to specific commandment keeping and the most obvious example of this is the Prosperity Gospel in which you receive money from God if you give money to the church. While the LDS don't preach that, many members believe in it, and that's not cool.

It kind of sucks that there aren't any specifics in God's word, life would feel more simple if there were. But it feels kind of the same as when I was a missionary, I had no way to measure how good of a missionary I was because I couldn't compare my mission to anyone else's and there were no standards set other than "follow the handbook" which just means you are following the rules, not necessarily preaching with God's power and authority. Even now as a member I don't exactly know what my standing is with God. It's not like I get a letter grade, or daily feedback on how perfectly I'm connecting with Christ. It can be very frustrating and my response to it has been to loosen up and stop worrying so much about the details and just enjoy growing as a little plant and enjoy the sunshine, the occasional rain, and the periodic fertilization while watching bugs crawl around on the dirt.

Your post made me think, what if the reason that there are no specific blessings connected to obeying specific laws is because we are all so different, with different needs, that there is no way to bless us all with the exact same blessings.

What would be a blessing to me might actually do you harm, but if God was bound to provide specific blessings for an act of obedience we both performed, then He would end up cursing you and blessing me (or the other way around).  Taylored blessings for each of His children makes so much more sense to me, with all such blessings working to move us towards becoming like Christ and the reception of the ultimate gift of eternal life.

 

 

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

If I obey the Law of Chastity, I don't have to worry about s*xually transmitted !nfections, unplanned (and unwanted) pregnancies, and so on. 

Not quite….your partner has to obey it as well for the first plus babies can pick some diseases up from the mother (even through breastfeeding with HIV and some others, so maybe if they get bottled fed because mom can’t with another’s milk who is not aware that is a problem) if being very nitpicking.

And one can be married and chaste and still have unplanned and unwanted pregnancies if one doesn’t use birth control or even if one uses it, through failure of birth control.  

And there is the very unfortunate issue of a girl or women being the most chaste she can be and still having all of the above issues due to rape.  I know you in no way mean to imply this, but am mentioning it just because there is still the stigma that some attached to rape victims as having lost their “virtue”, which somehow got substituted for virginity along the way.  Not that virginity should be an issue either, but at least that makes some sense where virtue doesn’t.

But the likelihood of such diseases goes way down if you do follow the Law of Chastity, which is one of the potential blessings (but not guaranteed) attached  in my opinion as well.

Word of Wisdom and certain illnesses aren’t always a guarantee either except I am guessing for alcoholism (if you never drink alcohol, it can’t be triggered even if one is predisposed to it).  One can get lung cancer and other diseases without smoking or even living with a smoker, one can get hit with addiction issues taking prescription medicines.  But the stats do show obedience to even the limited form of the WoW we follow today generally lowers risks significantly, overall I do agree with you.

But I am also a nitpicker so must post a few exceptions to the general trend.  As well as point out it may be a case of not suffering as much from certain issues rather than not experiencing them at all (you may get lung cancer, but without the added complications smoking would bring, for example).

I have concerns if we start looking at obedience as a guarantee for certain blessings when it’s not, that can cause problems when we or a loved one ends up an exception.  I think it’s better to not frame the ideas of x behaviour brings y blessings except in a general as well as making sure to mention there is no behaviour or blessings that exists in isolation.  You shouldn’t pay your tithing thinking it is going to ensure your financial stability while buying expensive toys, splurging on high end restaurants, endlessly adding to a shoe collection or other behaviours that use more money than you have available for such things.  You shouldn’t avoid smoking and drinking, but only eat McDonald’s for breakfast, lunch, and dinner and expect to stay healthy and full of energy.

[Calm]

1 minute ago, bluebell said:

Your post made me think, what if the reason that there are no specific blessings connected to obeying specific laws is because we are all so different, with different needs, that there is no way to bless us all with the exact same blessings.

What would be a blessing to me might actually do you harm, but if God was bound to provide specific blessings for an act of obedience we both performed, then He would end up cursing you and blessing me (or the other way around).  Taylored blessings for each of His children makes so much more sense to me, with all such blessings working to move us towards becoming like Christ and the reception of the ultimate gift of eternal life.

 

 

This….except taylored is tailored. 😛 

[bluebell]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

This….except taylored is tailored. 😛 

I knew it looked wrong but could not figure out why!

[manol]

I don't think a “transactional” interpretation of “the law” is telling the whole story. It might be useful in some circumstances but it's incomplete. Consider this:

A gift given grudgingly is counted the same as if the gift was never given.

But, if one is unable to give yet says in their heart they would if they could, it is counted as if they did.

So the key element is not the “transactional" aspect.  The key element is aligning oneself to the consciousness of Christ. If this wording doesn't work for you, then substitute wording that does.

Or to put it another way, “Seek ye first the Kingdom of God” puts seeking to align oneself to the consciousness of the Kingdom of God ahead of seeking this or that vending-machine blessing.

And where is the Kingdom of God? The Kingdom of God is within you.  It's already there, but obscured when we align ourselves to lesser spiritual energy states for whatever reason.

Ime the most powerful prayer is just two words long. It asks for nothing. It goes like this:

“Thank You.”

Try it and see if you don't feel a shift towards alignment with the consciousness of Christ (or whatever wording you prefer).

 

Edited November 19, 2025 by manol

[InCognitus]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

This….except taylored is tailored. 😛 

Swift catch there.  

[Calm]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I knew it looked wrong but could not figure out why!

That exact thing has happened to me a few years ago and bugged me until it suddenly dawned on me what was wrong, so I tend to catch it when it happens to others these days.

[The Nehor]

10 hours ago, manol said:

I don't think a “transactional” interpretation of “the law” is telling the whole story. It might be useful in some circumstances but it's incomplete. Consider this:

A gift given grudgingly is counted the same as if the gift was never given.

But, if one is unable to give yet says in their heart they would if they could, it is counted as if they did.

So the key element is not the “transactional" aspect.  The key element is aligning oneself to the consciousness of Christ. If this wording doesn't work for you, then substitute wording that does.

Or to put it another way, “Seek ye first the Kingdom of God” puts seeking to align oneself to the consciousness of the Kingdom of God ahead of seeking this or that vending-machine blessing.

And where is the Kingdom of God? The Kingdom of God is within you.  It's already there, but obscured when we align ourselves to lesser spiritual energy states for whatever reason.

Ime the most powerful prayer is just two words long. It asks for nothing. It goes like this:

“Thank You.”

Try it and see if you don't feel a shift towards alignment with the consciousness of Christ (or whatever wording you prefer).

 

I agree in general but still come up against the “law irrevocably decreed in heaven” and similar verses elsewhere throughout the Standard Works. I am uncomfortable explaining away the verses. At what point does that mean I am just selectively editing the scriptures to match my life experience?

I have a few cases in scripture that I know (or suspect) the narrator is unreliable to a degree and can ignore those but that is harder with the D&C.

[Vanguard]

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I agree in general but still come up against the “law irrevocably decreed in heaven” and similar verses elsewhere throughout the Standard Works. I am uncomfortable explaining away the verses. At what point does that mean I am just selectively editing the scriptures to match my life experience?

I have a few cases in scripture that I know (or suspect) the narrator is unreliable to a degree and can ignore those but that is harder with the D&C.

I don't know how the 'law irrevocably decreed in heaven' pertains to me? I don't believe these types of passages should be interpreted in any way as a charge to figure out the connection between the laws and the supposed blessings that flow from obedience to said law though this effort seems to have taken hold among the laity. The classic law-blessing connection is the payment of tithing (and a close 2nd would be 'calling election made sure'). For scripture to claim that the 'windows of heaven will be opened' as a result of my paying tithing unnecessarily leads me down a path of looking for what I consider to be evidences of said blessings bestowed on me. That's not a good mindset.  But how can the member escape this effort? S/he is told continuously that blessings will flow. It actually makes sense the member would in turn look for said evidence. : (

I would rather think that my obedience hones my perception of my relationship to God and draws my attention to those things in my life that I have always taken for granted (i.e., my breath, my ability to think, my ability to ambulate, etc). I have stated from the pulpit and to my immediate family continually that if I die tomorrow I want to believe I was the luckiest man to live. Perhaps that is the blessing of our obedience and nothing more. 

[Vanguard]

I think the transactional mindset of obedience-begets-many wonderful blessings is actually worse than the 'vending machine' analogy. It's more like a kid in Willie Wonka's chocolate factory salivating for all the wonderful 'sweets' there are to be had if one can just be obedient. It's also a significant issue brought up among those who do not hold a belief in God as to why we believe in a God in the first place. Is my belief really just predicated on what I think I can get if I vow my allegiance to a supernatural being? Eeek. : (

Edited November 20, 2025 by Vanguard

[MustardSeed]

6 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

I think the transactional mindset of obedience-begets-many wonderful blessings is actually worse than the 'vending machine' analogy. It's more like a kid in Willie Wonka's chocolate factory salivating for all the wonderful 'sweets' there are to be had if one can just be obedient. It's also a significant issue brought up among those who do not hold a belief in God as to why we believe in a God in the first place. Is my belief really just predicated on what I think I can get if I vow my allegiance to a supernatural being? Eeek. : (

Is there room to acknowledge that we have been taught the wrong way “from the pulpit” for many years?

Edited November 20, 2025 by MustardSeed

[bluebell]

14 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

For scripture to claim that the 'windows of heaven will be opened' as a result of my paying tithing unnecessarily leads me down a path of looking for what I consider to be evidences of said blessings bestowed on me. That's not a good mindset.  But how can the member escape this effort? S/he is told continuously that blessings will flow. It actually makes sense the member would in turn look for said evidence. : (

 

I'll disagree with you a bit on this one because I actually think this is a really good mindset.  In those verses God Himself encourages the mindset but commanding us to prove Him and see what blessings come when we are obedient.  Noticing when God keeps His promises, seeing His hand in our lives, etc.  Those are all things that are paramount to being able to have faith and trust in Him.  They are the "evidences of things not seen" that our faith needs to be built on.

I agree with you in that I don't think it's a good mindset to be obedient in an attempt to secure specific blessings though.  There's a difference between looking for blessings and looking for specific blessings.  One is good and the other almost always causes problems.   

We don't pay tithing and look for a check in the mail.  Or so yes to a calling so we get the job we want, or serve our neighbor so our kids are active in the church.  That's a black hole faith crisis that is going to suck you in sooner or later.

[JVW]

3 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

I think the transactional mindset of obedience-begets-many wonderful blessings is actually worse than the 'vending machine' analogy. It's more like a kid in Willie Wonka's chocolate factory salivating for all the wonderful 'sweets' there are to be had if one can just be obedient. It's also a significant issue brought up among those who do not hold a belief in God as to why we believe in a God in the first place. Is my belief really just predicated on what I think I can get if I vow my allegiance to a supernatural being? Eeek. : (

I'm not bugged by someone following God for brownie points in the afterlife. The things they believe they will receive aren't tangible and aren't causing anyone harm. Right now the world is very self-centered. Let's say that tomorrow we wakeup and everyone is serving each other all the time and are really nice to each other, but it's only because it makes them "feel good" and because they believe that when they die they'll get a big house for being selfless. Is that something to get upset about? Sure, it'd be better if they did it just because that's who they are, or because they love God and their neighbor, but who cares? The results would be amazing. I'd love to live in that world.

[bluebell]

9 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

I think the transactional mindset of obedience-begets-many wonderful blessings is actually worse than the 'vending machine' analogy. It's more like a kid in Willie Wonka's chocolate factory salivating for all the wonderful 'sweets' there are to be had if one can just be obedient. It's also a significant issue brought up among those who do not hold a belief in God as to why we believe in a God in the first place. Is my belief really just predicated on what I think I can get if I vow my allegiance to a supernatural being? Eeek. : (

I think there is a difference between obedience that begets blessings, and the spiritually immature action of being obedient for the blessings.  One does not have to lead to the other.  

I think the story of the friends of daniel (whose names I am not going to try to spell) being thrown into the furnace.  They knew that God would bless them for their obedience and had faith that they would be spared, but even if the blessing did not come in that specific way and they died in the furnace, they would still obey Him.  That story is a great example of looking for and expecting blessings and yet not doing something for the blessings. 

 

[Vanguard]

27 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Is there room to acknowledge that we have been taught the wrong way “from the pulpit” for many years?

No, I don't think there is right now. As long as it's still taught I don't think we should be countering it. Is there room for finessing the possibility of a different mindset? Absolutely. ; )

[Vanguard]

9 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think there is a difference between obedience that begets blessings, and the spiritually immature action of being obedient for the blessings.  One does not have to lead to the other.  

I think the story of the friends of daniel (whose names I am not going to try to spell) being thrown into the furnace.  They knew that God would bless them for their obedience and had faith that they would be spared, but even if the blessing did not come in that specific way and they died in the furnace, they would still obey Him.  That story is a great example of looking for and expecting blessings and yet not doing something for the blessings. 

 

Agreed. Even if the brothers had been killed in that way, it does not invalidate anything other than the possibility they misread the Lord's intent. 

I do take exception to the 'expecting' blessings though. I would rather phrase it as 'hoping for'. ; )

[Vanguard]

24 minutes ago, JVW said:

I'm not bugged by someone following God for brownie points in the afterlife. The things they believe they will receive aren't tangible and aren't causing anyone harm. Right now the world is very self-centered. Let's say that tomorrow we wakeup and everyone is serving each other all the time and are really nice to each other, but it's only because it makes them "feel good" and because they believe that when they die they'll get a big house for being selfless. Is that something to get upset about? Sure, it'd be better if they did it just because that's who they are, or because they love God and their neighbor, but who cares? The results would be amazing. I'd love to live in that world.

I'm not bugged either that is until said individual 'crashes' because the particular blessing didn't happen (see Patriarchal Blessings promising companionship only to be told it must mean in the next life). Nonetheless, I don't begrudge anyone for making sense of things in a way that works for them. I don't care for it when it's taught from the pulpit as though it were a given for everyone. 

[Vanguard]

Hey guys, just a note to say 'thanks' for engaging. It's unbelievable that I can go from a resident 'looky-loo' for many months to having a thread occupy my mind throughout the entire day. ; ) 

[california boy]

I am reading all these claims about how God has bestowed blessings based on obedience to Him even if it is a broken neck.  Is it really possible to tell if something is a blessing from God due to one's faithfulness in obeying any commandment?  Or is it simply a desire to attribute good things to God and even bad things to God because of lessons learned by going to Church and hearing regularly that God is the one handing out what life gives us.

I look at my life while I was faithfully in the Church for so many years and compare it to my life now after being gone from the Church for so many years.  Overall, things haven't changed all that much.  I have always been financially secure because I have always had good jobs due to my education and innate ability to work hard and not settle for mediocre solutions. After leaving the Church, I made some good investments and hard work to make my finances secure.  And I did have 10% more to invest.  No God involved. My health is much stronger and better than most people my age because I have always gone to the gym bike regularly and have always been active in sports and exercise.  Plus I think I have good genes which I was simply born with.  My dad had good health all his life.  Are the genes we are born with because of our relationship with God in the preexistence?  I hope that is not the case for those that are born with challenging conditions inherited by their genes.  Or is it like the broken neck story where blessings come from God giving us crappy stuff to deal with.

My ex-wife is the exact same age as me.  Her health is deteriorating significantly.  Our health is probably at least a decade difference between us.  My grandchildren were shocked when they learned that we are the same age.  She has never exercised, isn't active in any physical activities to speak of and never has.  Yet she has kept the WoW her whole life down to a fault, pays her tithing, but hasn't done as well as me financially because of how she invested her money.  Yet she is obedient to all she has been taught to thinks God has asked of her.

Did God have a hand in any of this?  Is He blessing my ex-wife with poor health and me with excellent health?  Is her financial situation because she has paid a full tithing all her life or is my financial security a curse from God because I quit paying tithing?  Just how much does God manage our lifes based on anything we do in relationship to Him.  How do you identify a blessing from God separate from the choices we make unrelated to God's involvement at all.  

I realized that I attributed blessings from God because I was in the Church and told that certain outcomes is because of some commandments I was keeping.  Turns out, that had nothing to do with any of that.  Those that are in the Church will continue to attribute certain outcomes no matter what those outcomes are to God.  I don't begrudge that.  But the reality is far more about the choices we make and how we choose to live our lives and how we handle the difficulties that life throws at us, not God. 

Edited November 20, 2025 by california boy

[bluebell]

3 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

Agreed. Even if the brothers had been killed in that way, it does not invalidate anything other than the possibility they misread the Lord's intent. 

I do take exception to the 'expecting' blessings though. I would rather phrase it as 'hoping for'. ; )

I've always seen it as them acknowledging that God's will is not always our will and that we don't dictate what a blessing will look like from Him.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the 'expecting' blessings though.    My patriarchal blessing specifically tells me that I can "expect many blessings throughout your life" because of the phrase that comes before that line, and I believe it.  I also had a bishop a few years ago who had cancer when he was 16, back when cancer treatments were not great (in the 80s).  He was eventually told he was cancer free but the cancer came back a short time later and when they found it that time he was only given a few days to live.  But he lived, served a mission, got married, and had two kids.  Unfortunately, the treatments in those days were so dangerous that he developed cancer another time as an adult from the radiation treatment he was given in the past.  He also suffered many other side effects from the treatments for his entire life, and eventually died a few years ago in his 50s from them.  He worked as a motivational speaker to fortune 500 companies and wrote a book called "Make room for the Miracle".  I've never met a man more full of faith and trust in God than him and one of the things that his story taught me is that when we have faith in God we expect blessings, but we don't dictate outcomes.  We make room for God to bless us, and then we are grateful for whatever those blessings are.  

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Vanguard said:

have stated from the pulpit and to my immediate family continually that if I die tomorrow I want to believe I was the luckiest man to live.

I hope you can get that mindset if you don’t already have it; if you do…wow, I am impressed and delighted for you.

Edited November 20, 2025 by Calm

[Calm]

3 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Is there room to acknowledge that we have been taught the wrong way “from the pulpit” for many years?

I think it works well for some people, but not for others.  I am happy to acknowledge there has been an overemphasis on this POV without making it clear there are other ways of looking at our relationship that may be better at drawing some of us closer to God.

I can also see those who have found this way very beneficial for their spiritual growth seeing those who see it as likely a less spiritually developed mode (as opposed to simply a different one which is needed because not all brains work the same way even when mature emotionally and spiritually) as snobs, lol.

The visualization of the covenant path or spiritual development as pretty much a one size fits all doesn’t leave a lot of room for accepting different spiritual views as equally mature or helpful overall and that it’s more about how it works for the individual than the actual method (we may be at different points on the path in different areas, but there is little suggestion that the landmarks or methods of development are different).

For example, fasting is taught as always beneficial or at least not spiritually harmful if done the right way and the only people who shouldn’t do it are those whose health won’t tolerate it.

But fasting can affect people differently emotionally and mentally and it may actually make some healthy individuals block out the spirit more than let it in based on my experience (when younger and generally healthy), both personal and talking to people.

Formal prayer with kneeling down and taking the time to receive the Spirit is also promoted as spiritually beneficial, but the way my mind works it drags me into a darker place, not lighter.  I find spontaneous prayers in a moment of spiritual realization much more enlightening and spiritually sustaining as well as just checking in with the feeling of God’s presence I have had with me as long as I can remember except for a few years when some drugs suppressed it.  It’s better for me imo to focus on trying to prepare for those moments than set up a routine for prayer that generally ends with me feeling like a failure because of what my mind does when understimulated (and it does not seem to be a process I can train myself out of or if I could, there’s going to be a lot of emotional damage done before that happens so it’s hard for me to see the value in that).

I would like to see the Church start to address differences in people in ways more than just we are at different points along the spiritual path, but I suspect the academic study of psychology of the mind needs to figure it out better to give us the language to be able to teach these different ways effectively without confusing people.

There is recognition on differences between male and female, but it’s often just addressed as roles.  I have seen articles in church magazines iirc on extroverts and introverts, but there is so much more out there that makes up an individual, especially since few are all introvert or extrovert.

Edited November 20, 2025 by Calm

[manol]

18 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I agree in general but still come up against the “law irrevocably decreed in heaven” and similar verses elsewhere throughout the Standard Works. I am uncomfortable explaining away the verses. At what point does that mean I am just selectively editing the scriptures to match my life experience?

I have a few cases in scripture that I know (or suspect) the narrator is unreliable to a degree and can ignore those but that is harder with the D&C.

 

I agree, it's harder to ignore something that's in the D&C.

Can we put something in the D&C on the back burner until we understand it? Sometimes we gotta plow with the horses we got, and if one of those horses is not useful to us at this time, I think it's okay use the ones that are.

Here is one yardstick for gauging utility in this sort of situation:

Does embracing this idea cause me to love God completely and without reservation, and does it cause me to love my neighbor as if my neighbor were myself? ← These are the first and second great commandments, upon which all the law and all the teachings of the prophets hang.  They describe the state of consciousness that everything else is supposed to lead us towards.  And if an idea leads us in a different direction, then either it is mistaken or incomplete, or our current understanding of it is.

In my opinion.

(I no longer look through the lens of how to get the outcomes I want.  I look through the lens of how to align myself to, and with, and in, and as, the consciousness of Christ.  Whatever shows up in my life presents me with the opportunity to do so to the best of my ability in the moment.  Easier said than done!)

 

Edited November 21, 2025 by manol

[JVW]

3 hours ago, Vanguard said:

I'm not bugged either that is until said individual 'crashes' because the particular blessing didn't happen (see Patriarchal Blessings promising companionship only to be told it must mean in the next life). Nonetheless, I don't begrudge anyone for making sense of things in a way that works for them. I don't care for it when it's taught from the pulpit as though it were a given for everyone. 

Agreed. If the expected blessings are prosperity gospel type where they expect God to give them sunshine and flowers all the time because they're so awesome then that's a problem and they're have a long way to fall from the tower they're climbing.

[Vanguard]

2 minutes ago, JVW said:

Agreed. If the expected blessings are prosperity gospel type where they expect God to give them sunshine and flowers all the time because they're so awesome then that's a problem and they're have a long way to fall from the tower they're climbing.

In my case, it goes even deeper than that. It's not so much a prosperity-minded gospel profile, but rather absolute disillusionment when I believe I need Him the most in a certain way and I don't get it.