President Nelson has died

[Chum]

On 9/28/2025 at 11:51 PM, The Nehor said:

First conference in a long time in the midde of an apostolic interregnum?

True but the last years of President Benson felt like that.

[Chum]

At this point in my life, I find comfort in the transition. I look forward to what President Oaks will become. Although at 94, I'm wondering what's left to soften. 

Anyway, President Hinckley taught me how the office changes prophets - via 2 conference talks he gave. One was so harsh it felt bitter. After that, I would brace myself for his talks.
The other talk was intimate and personal, in a way that drew him close.  After hearing the first, you couldn't have convince me the second was possible. 

[bluebell]

9 hours ago, Chum said:

At this point in my life, I find comfort in the transition. I look forward to what President Oaks will become. Although at 94, I'm wondering what's left to soften. 

Anyway, President Hinckley taught me how the office changes prophets - via 2 conference talks he gave. One was so harsh it felt bitter. After that, I would brace myself for his talks.
The other talk was intimate and personal, in a way that drew him close.  After hearing the first, you couldn't have convince me the second was possible. 

Did you link to the right talk? I just got done listening to it and I couldn’t figure out what was harsh about it.

Not meaning to make you feel self-conscious or like you have to defend your choice, I just sincerely wondered if maybe you linked to the wrong one.

I will say though, that the talks that are straightforward tend to be the ones that make the most impact on me. So it’s also very likely that it’s just the difference in our personalities.  I truly feel that there are apostles for every one of us, and that when one apostle doesn’t connect with one person that they probably connect with a different person.  For example, I’ve always loved Pres.  Oakes’ talks, and I’ve always really struggled with elder Gong’s talks. Which is not to say that I have anything against Elder Gong. I know he is an apostle of God, and feel that he is an amazing man. But his soft style tends to go right through me and make no impact whatsoever.  It is not a style that speaks to my heart.  I like the talks that tell me what to do and what not to do and no uncertain terms.

But I am very aware that there are many people that do not like president Oaks talks at all. They see him as harsh and unloving. That’s not my experience with him, but I still think it’s a valid experience for other people. We all need different things at different times.

And I think you are right in that once an apostle is called as the president and prophet of the church, that it does change him. I do think that the prophet has a unique responsibility to speak the truth, but do it in a way that can reach the most people and allow us all to fill our Savior’s love at the same time.  

[Chum]

6 hours ago, bluebell said:

Did you link to the right talk? I just got done listening to it and I couldn’t figure out what was harsh about it.

I joined the church years after the talk (I linked) was given.  But I heard the talk in the mid-late 1990s and am pretty sure it was at conference.  Assuming I heard a redo, there could be some difference in the Pres Hinckley's delivery (between what I heard and what I linked to) but the wording looks dead on. 

Remember that I'm a couple of years into my membership here. I was strongly struck (then) by what felt like barely emoted yet profoundly disdainful unhappiness from Pres Hinckley. I quickly came to believe that Pres Hinckley found this man worthless. 

On the dresser he saw a $20 bill, took it, and left. Through the years his conscience had bothered him and he was now returning the money.
(Me: The man had a conscience. Conscience is good. I've probably got some old wrongs I could right.)

He did not include anything for interest for the period during which he had used my money. 
(Me: Wait, what? I mean I get it but this is no longer a story about conscience and repentance. Failure to pay interest converts repentance ... into what?)

But as I read his pathetic letter I thought of the usury to which he had subjected himself for a quarter of a century...
(Me: Pathetic letter. Pathetic letter. Pathetic. From an apostle. I imagine that man hearing this talk. An apostle weighs his repentance in front of the world and declares it is Pathetic.
If it were me I would be done inside.)

Pres Hinckley is still talking but his tone is the same. I probably didn't want to hear more of the same. I didn't retain any of the talk after that.
(Me: I'm leaving my old wrongs in the past. I can fall short trying to do the right thing. Nothing's worth an apostle laying me in front of the world.)

[ZealouslyStriving]

15 minutes ago, Chum said:

I joined the church years after the talk (I linked) was given.  But I heard the talk in the mid-late 1990s and am pretty sure it was at conference.  Assuming I heard a redo, there could be some difference in the Pres Hinckley's delivery (between what I heard and what I linked to) but the wording looks dead on. 

Remember that I'm a couple of years into my membership here. I was strongly struck (then) by what felt like barely emoted yet profoundly disdainful unhappiness from Pres Hinckley. I quickly came to believe that Pres Hinckley found this man worthless. 

On the dresser he saw a $20 bill, took it, and left. Through the years his conscience had bothered him and he was now returning the money.
(Me: The man had a conscience. Conscience is good. I've probably got some old wrongs I could right.)

He did not include anything for interest for the period during which he had used my money. 
(Me: Wait, what? I mean I get it but this is no longer a story about conscience and repentance. Failure to pay interest converts repentance ... into what?)

But as I read his pathetic letter I thought of the usury to which he had subjected himself for a quarter of a century...
(Me: Pathetic letter. Pathetic letter. Pathetic. From an apostle. I imagine that man hearing this talk. An apostle weighs his repentance in front of the world and declares it is Pathetic.
If it were me I would be done inside.)

Pres Hinckley is still talking but his tone is the same. I probably didn't want to hear more of the same. I didn't retain any of the talk after that.
(Me: I'm leaving my old wrongs in the past. I can fall short trying to do the right thing. Nothing's worth an apostle laying me in front of the world.)

I believe you are thinking of a different definition of "pathetic" than he intended. He is using #1, you are seeing #2

pathetic meaning https://share.google/9IQUdqkQLjkSK5nkg

Dictionary

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

adjective

1.

arousing pity, especially through vulnerability or sadness.

"she looked so pathetic that I bent down to comfort her"

Similar:

pitiful

pitiable

piteous

to be pitied

moving

touching

poignant

plaintive

stirring

affecting

distressing

disquieting

disturbing

upsetting

miserable

heartbreaking

heart-rending

agonizing

harrowing

mortifying

sad

wretched

poor

forlorn

tragic

doleful

mournful

woeful

distressful

Opposite:

comical

cheerful

2.

miserably inadequate; of very low standard.

"he's a pathetic excuse for a man"

Edited October 1, 2025 by ZealouslyStriving

[bluebell]

13 minutes ago, Chum said:

I joined the church years after the talk (I linked) was given.  But I heard the talk in the mid-late 1990s and am pretty sure it was at conference.  Assuming I heard a redo, there could be some difference in the Pres Hinckley's delivery (between what I heard and what I linked to) but the wording looks dead on. 

Remember that I'm a couple of years into my membership here. I was strongly struck (then) by what felt like barely emoted yet profoundly disdainful unhappiness from Pres Hinckley. I quickly came to believe that Pres Hinckley found this man worthless. 

On the dresser he saw a $20 bill, took it, and left. Through the years his conscience had bothered him and he was now returning the money.
(Me: The man had a conscience. Conscience is good. I've probably got some old wrongs I could right.)

He did not include anything for interest for the period during which he had used my money. 
(Me: Wait, what? I mean I get it but this is no longer a story about conscience and repentance. Failure to pay interest converts repentance ... into what?)

But as I read his pathetic letter I thought of the usury to which he had subjected himself for a quarter of a century...
(Me: Pathetic letter. Pathetic letter. Pathetic. From an apostle. I imagine that man hearing this talk. An apostle weighs his repentance in front of the world and declares it is Pathetic.
If it were me I would be done inside.)

Pres Hinckley is still talking but his tone is the same. I probably didn't want to hear more of the same. I didn't retain any of the talk after that.
(Me: I'm leaving my old wrongs in the past. I can fall short trying to do the right thing. Nothing's worth an apostle laying me in front of the world.)

I was really glad that the audience laughed after he said that part because I felt like it needed some softening and the laughter made it sound like he was just trying to be funny. But, I can completely understand where you’re coming from with that talk.  With a certain perspective, it would be very harsh.

[Chum]

9 hours ago, bluebell said:

I will say though, that the talks that are straightforward tend to be the ones that make the most impact on me. So it’s also very likely that it’s just the difference in our personalities.  I truly feel that there are apostles for every one of us, and that when one apostle doesn’t connect with one person that they probably connect with a different person.

Absolutely. I am not condemning his talk. It was appropriate and full of wisdom and came from a holy place. But it also tore into me like rabid wombat and not the good kind. 

Pres Hinckley's later talks came from an immeasurably better place and that's my takeaway.

[Chum]

8 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

I believe you are thinking of a different definition of "pathetic" than he intended. He is using #1, you are seeing #2

pathetic meaning...

Yeah they weren't close captioning a thesaurus during those 1990s conferences. The satellite tech was still pretty new. 

[Calm]

55 minutes ago, Chum said:

He did not include anything for interest for the period during which he had used my money. 
(Me: Wait, what? I mean I get it but this is no longer a story about conscience and repentance. Failure to pay interest converts repentance ... into what?)

But as I read his pathetic letter I thought of the usury to which he had subjected himself for a quarter of a century...
(Me: Pathetic letter. Pathetic letter. Pathetic. From an apostle. I imagine that man hearing this talk. An apostle weighs his repentance in front of the world and declares it is Pathetic.
If it were me I would be done inside.)

I heard that as a joke like bluebell did and probably didn’t pick up on it then if I read it (June 76 I was rushing off to BYU, missed my high school graduation even, thinking I wouldn’t be reading the Ensign if it came before I was out the door and wouldn’t go to the Lee Library to read it once I got to Provo), but might these days have also gone to how the writer of the letter might have heard it and squirmed without your pointing it out first.  So yes, it could come across as gentle teasing, but given the circumstances there is a risk of the man feeling his efforts were being trivialized, feel humiliated in front of millions, etc.  It would be very different coming from a friend.  And maybe Pres Hinckley thought of everyone as a friend, but we should be aware that others can be sensitive in ways we wouldn’t think,of as important  and pay attention to them anyway out of love imo.

The “pathetic letter” hit me in the same way I think as you when I was hearing him say it (chances are I never heard it before as my parents never listened to conference, but read it so we kids never did either except on rare occasions—and then only the one session as that was all that was available—and I have generally read conference talks rather than listened due to my inability to sit for very long without my hands being occupied and feeling that wasn’t great for conference because I wouldn’t give it full attention).  Reading it doesn’t hit me the same way as my mind plays with words while reading, more likely to think of different meanings like zealous brings up (settling on “the letter was full of pathos”) and I think that softened it for me because when I then listened to it, I had an unexpected strong reaction to “pathetic”.  When I was around 9 or 10, I once told my mom about a former friend being a bully to me and I said proudly I didn’t hate them (thinking of love your enemies and all, I pitied them and boy, did she lay into me in her quiet, loving way for diminishing a fellow human being.  What matter to me most was I could tell I had shocked her.  It truly bothered her I would view someone else in that manner.  So I tend to react strongly to condescension, etc.  For some reason it was the condescending label that dominated when I listened, but not when I read it.  Maybe the rhythm of the delivery vs the rhythm of my reading?

Edited October 1, 2025 by Calm

[Chum]

28 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I was really glad that the audience laughed after he said that part because I felt like it needed some softening and the laughter made it sound like he was just trying to be funny. But, I can completely understand where you’re coming from with that talk.  With a certain perspective, it would be very harsh.

Wait, the audience laughed?  It was all I could do to even find this talk and I've only read the transcript. 
I'm a little baffled. 
I know they laughed during the other link'd talk because the "I can't Recommend it" line about the hospital was pretty good. 

[Chum]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

heard that as a joke like bluebell did and probably didn’t pick up on it then, but might these days have gone to in my head how the writer of the letter might have heard it and squirmed.  So yes, it could come across as gentle teasing but given the circumstances there is a risk of the man feeling his efforts were being trivialized, feel humiliated in front of millions, etc.

Okay I am truly and fully confused. I wouldn't have missed laughter even then. I'm going to see if I can find the version I saw (because I heard the talk, in conference ~1996). 

Pray for me because finding anything on Church sites can be hard.  I think the Church just copied it's search code from Amazon's site.  

Edited October 1, 2025 by Chum

[Calm]

14 minutes ago, Chum said:

I'm going to see if I can find the version I saw (because I heard the talk, in conference ~1996

They use stories for multiple talks.

Maybe this one…nope…

 

Edited October 1, 2025 by Calm

[Chum]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

They use stories for multiple talks.

Maybe this one…nope…

Me and #5 about to go out for our nightly 3mi. I'll see what's what, on return. 

[Calm]

26 minutes ago, Chum said:

Pray for me because finding anything on Church sites can be hard.  I think the Church just copied it's search code from Amazon's site.  

It’s awful….

Try this if you are certain it’s a general conference talk…

https://www.lds-general-conference.org

[bluebell]

45 minutes ago, Chum said:

Okay I am truly and fully confused. I wouldn't have missed laughter even then. I'm going to see if I can find the version I saw (because I heard the talk, in conference ~1996). 

Pray for me because finding anything on Church sites can be hard.  I think the Church just copied it's search code from Amazon's site.  

The church's search is abysmal!

[Calm]

On 9/28/2025 at 8:42 PM, Navidad said:

I have not  been able to post since around the 16th of September. My wife had been in coronary ICU almost all of that time. Last night she was transferred to a hospital in a suburb of Phoenix from El Paso to have a greater likelihood of experiencing an open heart surgery at a bigger hospital. So here I am in Phoenix with her waiting for the doctors to make up their minds about her surgery since she has infections in both her heart and spine, and has experienced a number of strokes from the no-longer-functioning mitral valve.  I mention this for two reasons- to explain my sudden absence and to offer my best wishes to all My LDS friends in their loss of their prophet, a pioneering open heart surgery physician. My heart is tender because of the proximity of the loss of my dear wife of 55 years. I offer my condolences and heart felt grief for each of you who lost he who was a leader and the thee leader of your church.  Also, I am in grief with you over those who lost so much today in Michigan. I am uncertain of the details, but it is a terrible to thing to have happen. Best to all. 

When you get a chance, if it’s not difficult since no doubt you have many things on your mind and agenda, let us know about your wife and yourself.  I am hoping it will be positive news.❤️

Edited October 2, 2025 by Calm

[InCognitus]

Has this been here on the church website before, or did they just release this this week?  I just noticed it this evening.  I'm impressed that they have it ready so quickly, and obviously they've been compiling it all along:

Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Russell M. Nelson

It's part of the Teachings of Presidents of the Church series.

Contents: 

Chapter 1:  Heavenly Father’s Plan of Happiness
Chapter 2: The Atonement of Jesus Christ
Chapter 3: The Ministry of Jesus Christ
Chapter 4: Faith in Jesus Christ
Chapter 5: Repentance
Chapter 6: Divine Identity
Chapter 7: Agency and Accountability
Chapter 8: The Abrahamic Covenant
Chapter 9: The Gathering of Israel
Chapter 10: A Covenant Relationship with God
Chapter 11: Divine Law and Absolute Truth
Chapter 12: Sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ
Chapter 13: The Holy Temple—the House of the Lord
Chapter 14: Revelation for Our Lives
Chapter 15: Prayer
Chapter 16: Spiritual Strength and Momentum
Chapter 17: The Sabbath Day
Chapter 18: Joy and Hope through Jesus Christ
Chapter 20: The Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ
Chapter 21: Prophets
Chapter 24: The Name of the Savior’s Church

I've been listening to all of President Nelson's conference talks this week, and now I need to start going through this one too.

ETA:  I just checked the Wayback Machine, and it's been up since August of 2024, so I guess I just missed it.

Edited October 4, 2025 by InCognitus

[Stargazer]

On 10/1/2025 at 2:58 AM, bluebell said:

The church's search is abysmal!

Believe it or not, it has improved over the past year. I used to get so frustrated with it that I would use Bing or Google to find what I wanted. During this conference I've been able to find what I needed during the sessions using the church search, however.

A year or so ago I submitted a "bug report" about this to the tech folks. Got a response saying to be patient; they were working on it.

[Stargazer]

On 9/29/2025 at 3:42 AM, Navidad said:

I have not  been able to post since around the 16th of September. My wife had been in coronary ICU almost all of that time. Last night she was transferred to a hospital in a suburb of Phoenix from El Paso to have a greater likelihood of experiencing an open heart surgery at a bigger hospital. So here I am in Phoenix with her waiting for the doctors to make up their minds about her surgery since she has infections in both her heart and spine, and has experienced a number of strokes from the no-longer-functioning mitral valve.  I mention this for two reasons- to explain my sudden absence and to offer my best wishes to all My LDS friends in their loss of their prophet, a pioneering open heart surgery physician. My heart is tender because of the proximity of the loss of my dear wife of 55 years. I offer my condolences and heart felt grief for each of you who lost he who was a leader and the thee leader of your church.  Also, I am in grief with you over those who lost so much today in Michigan. I am uncertain of the details, but it is a terrible to thing to have happen. Best to all. 

I've submitted your wife to the London Temple prayer roll. Not knowing her name, I put it in as Navidad's Wife. I'm sure the Lord knows who she is.

[Kenngo1969]

On 9/30/2025 at 8:59 AM, bluebell said:

...  I like the talks that tell me what to do and what not to do and no uncertain terms.  ...

Well, then ... [Ahem!]

 "Repent, ye sinner!  Repent!"

                   —Unnamed leader of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

How's that?   

Edited October 12, 2025 by Kenngo1969

[InCognitus]

I'm surprised that nobody has posted anything about the funeral (or maybe they have and I missed it... I've had a busy week).  Did any of you watch it or listen to it?  The talks were awesome.  I especially liked the talk by Elder Oaks (starting at the 01:03:00 mark of the video), where he described the differences between management styles between the "former lawyers" in the quorum of the twelve apostles and President Nelson after he became president of the church.

Here's a partial transcript of a portion of his remarks having to do with his management style:

Quote

 

"I sat beside Russel M. Nelson for 34 years in the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.  In that council he was thoughtful and wise, but never as active in the discussions as a few others-- mostly former lawyers.  So, I was not prepared for what happened in January 2018, when he became our President, with the mantle of the prophet settled upon him.  Suddenly I saw Russell M. Nelson as a decisive church decision-maker. 

"Imagine how that transition looked to his fellow apostles, some of whom were former lawyers, whose traditions of professional work could always seek a continuance or advocate appointing a committee to study a question and make a recommendation before a decision was reached.  I came to understand that his professional work, as a surgeon, assumed and required quick decision-makers because those they served were sometimes immobilized on a gurney with no time for postponement for their surgeon to make further study and no opportunity to ask for a continuance. 

"I saw this contrast in the first meeting of the new First Presidency.  A question came before us to decide who should write the introductory page in the monthly issue of the Ensign.  First Presidency members had done this for many years.  Before president Eyring and I could get involved in any discussion of which one of us would do that, President Nelson said, 'Why do we do this?  Is this really necessary?  Let's stop doing it.'  The decision was quickly made.  That approach was repeated again and again as I saw President Nelson as the decision-maker, rather than the wise and supportive member of the Quorum of the Twelve I had sat beside for 34 years. 

"Figuratively speaking, I tightened my seatbelt a few more notches and said to myself, 'Being a counselor in this First Presidency is going to be fun."

 

I also enjoyed the remarks from one of his daughters and from his son.  It is very much worth watching.

Edited October 13, 2025 by InCognitus

[Rain]

On 10/2/2025 at 4:12 PM, Calm said:

When you get a chance, if it’s not difficult since no doubt you have many things on your mind and agenda, let us know about your wife and yourself.  I am hoping it will be positive news.❤️

@Navidad 

I had been hoping to help he and his wife since we are close, but unfortunately my husband caught whooping cough and I am coughing too, though no tests to confirm it.  We are feeling fine, but we are not bringing it to the hospital.  I've been in loose touch with Navidad and have talked with his wife.  Last I heard she had surgery and has since been transfered to a normal room.  I don't know if she has left the hospital yet or not.  She let me know that Navidad was cleaning up the mud back at home so I assume that means there was flooding at their house.  I'm sure they would appreciate continued prayers.