Shots fired on my campus today. Charlie Kirk TPUSA leader dead

[gopher]

Have you seen this?  I didn't realize that George Zinn who was arrested shortly after the shooting had yelled "I shot him, now shoot me".  It makes sense why the FBI thought they had the shooter at first.

Quote

 

He later told police he wanted to cause a distraction for the real gunman, but also said he “wanted to be a martyr for the person who was shot,”

 

But now the old man is in trouble for child porn. 

Looking at the pictures in the story, his pants are pulled down and it appears he's wearing temple garments?

https://nypost.com/2025/09/16/us-news/george-zinn-old-man-who-falsely-claimed-he-shot-charlie-kirk-arrested-on-child-porn-charges/

[SeekingUnderstanding]

22 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

 

When someone dies I usually offer condolences without the but…

It’s the decent thing to do. 

 

A good friend’s mother passed away a couple of years ago. To the outside world she was a model mother. Fulfilled church callings, was cheerful, nice etc etc. At home she was severely emotionally abusive. Several at children at the funeral, without discussing it before hand said as much at her funeral. It was cathartic for them to tell their stories. When someone’s life causes so much pain, it is unreasonable to expect silence on death. 

[bsjkki]

I’ve seen videos like this all day. 

 

 

 

[bsjkki]

14 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

A good friend’s mother passed away a couple of years ago. To the outside world she was a model mother. Fulfilled church callings, was cheerful, nice etc etc. At home she was severely emotionally abusive. Several at children at the funeral, without discussing it before hand said as much at her funeral. It was cathartic for them to tell their stories. When someone’s life causes so much pain, it is unreasonable to expect silence on death. 

I am so sorry you have the need to vilify Charlie Kirk. Sad. 

[bsjkki]

 

[bsjkki]

 

[bsjkki]

Grateful for this man in the BYU attire. 

 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

A good friend’s mother passed away a couple of years ago. To the outside world she was a model mother. Fulfilled church callings, was cheerful, nice etc etc. At home she was severely emotionally abusive. Several at children at the funeral, without discussing it before hand said as much at her funeral. It was cathartic for them to tell their stories. When someone’s life causes so much pain, it is unreasonable to expect silence on death. 

Are you equating being disagreed with with being severely emotionally abused, or do you mean something different?  I'm not sure I'm reading you right.

[gopher]

2 hours ago, bsjkki said:

When someone dies I usually offer condolences without the but…

It’s the decent thing to do. 
 

Anyway, it’s pretty awful about this man who, initially lost his pants on video which was showed to world and this mugshot with him in his garments who purposely obstructed the police and had child porn on his devices. It didn’t take long for criticism of Utah and a muted church response to bubble up. 
 

Dang, you beat me to it!

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I don't celebrate his death, nor do I celebrate the words he spoke that I think can do damage. 

Sincere question, not a gotcha question. 

How do you feel about his words that promoted kindness and respectful dialogue regardless of what the other person believed?  Or do you see all of his words as damaging?

[SeekingUnderstanding]

31 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Are you equating being disagreed with with being severely emotionally abused, or do you mean something different?  I'm not sure I'm reading you right.

Sorry, I’m saying that sometimes it’s ok to speak ill of the dead. It was true for my friend. Here, Kirk centered his life around controversial debates living in the public eye. He had many people that looked up to him and many that found his views as promoting evil (say debating “Palestine” or “genocide”). The idea that we can’t speak our minds about such a person is foreign to me on a “discussion” forum and seems at odds with the way Kirk lived his life. 

[Tacenda]

Kirk mentions a lot of people being DEI hires as if they didn't put in a lot of study and work in educating themselves to become what they did. May I mention the Supreme Court judge, Ketanji Brown Jackson? I listened to her book on Audible and she isn't how Kirk portrayed below, along with the others.

"If we would have said three weeks ago […] that Joy Reid and Michelle Obama and Sheila Jackson Lee and Ketanji Brown Jackson were affirmative-action picks, we would have been called racist. But now they're coming out and they're saying it for us! They're coming out and they're saying, "I'm only here because of affirmative action."

Yeah, we know. You do not have the brain processing power to otherwise be taken really seriously. You had to go steal a white person's slot to go be taken somewhat seriously."

This quote and others are new to me, since his death. I had watched in the past, maybe two times his debates. And in those debates both black's and women's rights were spoken of. Kirk, would probably have loved to live in the 1950's, IMO. Which sometimes, seems ideal. For the men especially. Me, myself and I was conditioned to believe it's best for a mother to be in the home and raise children. Until I think that if the mother is so unhappy, she may not be the best situation for the child, and many children do just fine in a daycare in that situation. It has so many variables.

Back to your question, I thought it great for the students that disagreed to be able to say what they felt and good that Kirk encouraged opposite viewpoints, as long as it was for the right reasons, Kirk wanting debates.

I think we cannot change the fact that there are actual LGBTQ, and there are women with different likes etc. That we shouldn't put them in a box. And there is a reason to be diverse, equal, and inclusive. The only reason this is so, is because there are people that want a white race only, and only one faith belief, which is Christian. But the Lord or God or ? that created us, may not have wanted that. The Bible has a lot wrong in it. And that is maybe where Kirk should be given a break among some other reasons. He was a Bible basher for lack of better words.

Sorry for the long answer bluebell, I respect you and others on this board and tried my best to answer. 

ETA: 

I may just delete. This is such a personal subject to all of us. 

 

Edited September 17, 2025 by Tacenda

[rodheadlee]

On 9/14/2025 at 7:36 PM, Duncan said:

Charlie Kirk isn't any more special than literally any other American, with kids, who got blasted. Melissa Hortman also had two kids. Where is your outrage for her kids? Can you show me your post about them? Thanks!

Yeah why don't you start a thread on that? I believe that was the point he was making.

[bsjkki]

1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Sorry, I’m saying that sometimes it’s ok to speak ill of the dead. It was true for my friend. Here, Kirk centered his life around controversial debates living in the public eye. He had many people that looked up to him and many that found his views as promoting evil (say debating “Palestine” or “genocide”). The idea that we can’t speak our minds about such a person is foreign to me on a “discussion” forum and seems at odds with the way Kirk lived his life. 

You would definitely speak ill of me based on my views then. My uncle was a very bad man but his kids acknowledged his struggles and then talked about the good things they remembered. My daughter in law has struggled because her father served time for rape. The other day she said while he can never be back in her life, she misses the ‘good parts’ of her dad. In some ways, I view this as a part of healing journey. 
 

Charlie Kirk held political views you disagreed with. I bet a large portion of America holds those same views. It is nice to realize what issue makes him ‘evil’ in your opinion and deserving of disparagement after being assassinated for his political views. 
 

Josh Shapiro’s house was fire bombed for the same reason.

These two were also murdered in DC for that reason. 

Edited September 17, 2025 by bsjkki

[rodheadlee]

On 9/14/2025 at 7:47 PM, Duncan said:

do you see a numbing of the US due to all the school shootings and where does this transition start, was it George Floyd, Kennedy, Malcolm X, or Lincoln or when did this transition began? 

I think the numbing  began when politicians trried to make their point off of these school shootings. Demanding gun control. 300 million Americans aren't going to turn in 500 million guns.

Any school could be made safe it, will cost a bit of money but it could be done. You need two Sally ports with metal detectors and you need bulletproof glass on the outer Windows facing the streets. A couple of trained armed guards on duty full time and this would be the end of the school shootings.

I suppose they could always print one of those plastic guns and sneak it in or they can simply print out a knife and bring it in and stab everybody.

I think the main reason we have more mortal violence is because our country has become Godless.

Duncan I recommend the song Abraham Martin and John by Dion. It may help you settle some of these things in your mind. I would post it link but I'm a internet luddite with this phone.

 

Edited September 17, 2025 by rodheadlee

[SeekingUnderstanding]

21 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

You would definitely speak ill of me based on my views then.

 

Only if you made your living pushing them out into the world. 

21 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Josh Shapiro’s house was fire bombed for the same reason.

Are we keeping score? Really? I’m sure you were equally horrified when the state of Florida defaced the Pulse nightclub rainbow cross walk memorial right? Right? Or is it only bad when one side does it. See I happen to think defacing Kirk’s memorial should be criminally punished. If I have it right though, you put the guy in office who pardoned every single cop beater from the January sixth hang Mike pence political riot. Correct? You voted for (or at least support one of his chief sycophants in Kirk) the guy that thinks Paul Pelosi’s brutal attack is a joke. You are here lionizing Kirk who also made fun of the Pelosi’s attack. So spare me your fake phony outrage. I personally think all political violence is horrible and you’d never *ever catch me voting for anyone that’s hunky dory with it as long as it’s done to the other side. I hope they throw the book at Robinson.
 

Note to mods - I’ll see myself out lol. 

[bsjkki]

6 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Only if you made your living pushing them out into the world. 

Are we keeping score? Really? I’m sure you were equally horrified when the state of Florida defaced the Pulse nightclub rainbow cross walk memorial right? Right? Or is it only bad when one side does it. See I happen to think defacing Kirk’s memorial should be criminally punished. If I have it right though, you put the guy in office who pardoned every single cop beater from the January sixth hang Mike pence political riot. Correct? You voted for (or at least support one of his chief sycophants in Kirk) the guy that thinks Paul Pelosi’s brutal attack is a joke. You are here lionizing Kirk who also made fun of the Pelosi’s attack. So spare me your fake phony outrage. I personally think all political violence is horrible and you’d never *ever catch me voting for anyone that’s hunky dory with it as long as it’s done to the other side. I hope they throw the book at Robinson.
 

Note to mods - I’ll see myself out lol. 

I am very active on X…does that count? 
 

The state removed the rainbow after 9 years. There is still a temporary memorial and Orlando bought the property and they plan to have the permanent memorial completed before the anniversary in 2026. Good things. The removal was controversial but glad to hear plans for the permanent memorial are well underway and the temporary memorial still exists. That was a horrible terrorist attack. 
 

The attack on Pelosi was a politicly motivated attack that I condemned at the time. Charlie Kirk was not perfect and while he condemned the attack too, it was not great that he repeated unsubstantiated rumors about it. Political violence must be condemned. 

He was not hunky dory with the attack. He was not perfect. He was very much in the public eye with thousands of hours of public statements. I am having a very hard time understanding the glee and justification many express about his death including many in my personal friend group. It makes me view them very differently. 
 

 

 

[Calm]

5 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

A good friend’s mother passed away a couple of years ago. To the outside world she was a model mother. Fulfilled church callings, was cheerful, nice etc etc. At home she was severely emotionally abusive. Several at children at the funeral, without discussing it before hand said as much at her funeral. It was cathartic for them to tell their stories. When someone’s life causes so much pain, it is unreasonable to expect silence on death. 

It’s not like people were silent before about not liking him.

[Calm]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

Sincere question, not a gotcha question. 

How do you feel about his words that promoted kindness and respectful dialogue regardless of what the other person believed?  Or do you see all of his words as damaging?

Since I posted in agreement with Tacenda….

I applaud him for that.  People are complex, they can do bad and good things for bad and good reasons.

I hope his words calling for civility even in disagreement and forgiveness are the ones that are remembered the longest and are the most influential rather than the ones that are concerning to me.

I do hold him and others like him no matter what beliefs they hold to a higher standard since he is actively seeking publicity and has chosen to make a living by doing so, being an intentional influencer rather than just someone casually sharing ideas because they enjoy it.

Edited September 17, 2025 by Calm

[gopher]

8 hours ago, bsjkki said:

I am very active on X…does that count? 
 

The state removed the rainbow after 9 years. There is still a temporary memorial and Orlando bought the property and they plan to have the permanent memorial completed before the anniversary in 2026. Good things. The removal was controversial but glad to hear plans for the permanent memorial are well underway and the temporary memorial still exists. That was a horrible terrorist attack. 
 

The attack on Pelosi was a politicly motivated attack that I condemned at the time. Charlie Kirk was not perfect and while he condemned the attack too, it was not great that he repeated unsubstantiated rumors about it. Political violence must be condemned. 

He was not hunky dory with the attack. He was not perfect. He was very much in the public eye with thousands of hours of public statements. I am having a very hard time understanding the glee and justification many express about his death including many in my personal friend group. It makes me view them very differently. 
 

Am I misreading those who are defending Kirk?  I thought the reason they are upset is because many are celebrating Kirk's death, not because people are voicing their disagreements with the things Kirk said. 

[gopher]

As an admitted news junkie, it's been interesting to see how this story has evolved in just a week.  The killer started out as a far-right, devout Mormon, Groyper, and son of a cop and turned into a far-left, gay, inactive Mormon, and the son of an owner of a countertop and cabinet installation business.

I have been thinking a lot about his parents.  Can you imagine being in their shoes?  The mom recognized her son in the photos and called him to find out where he was the day of the shooting.  He lied and said he was sick all day.  Then the dad confronted him and got him to admit he did it.  It must have been excruciatingly painful to have to turn in their own son for such a horrible crime.  Their lives will never be the same.

[Kenngo1969]

"A mark of civilization is that we do not have to go to blows or bullets, that we can have discourse and debate."

             —Charlie Kirk

Source: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rKiqkRrl4Dk?feature=share

RIP, Charlie Kirk, October 14, 1993—September 10, 2025

Edited September 17, 2025 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

In related news: Man claimed to shoot Charlie Kirk to ‘draw attention from the real shooter,’ police say – Deseret News

Yeahhh ... about that: You should probably avoid ch!ld p*rn if you're gonna try to do that.  Just sayin'!   (Nobody ever said that Mr. Robinson's defenders come from among the sharpest tools in the drawer ...)

Quote

He later said he "did it [claimed to shoot Charlie Kirk] to draw attention from the real shooter,” police wrote in the report. He was first taken to a nearby hospital for an undisclosed medical condition. While at the hospital, Zinn told an officer that “he was glad he said he shot the individual so the real suspect could get away,” the affidavit adds.

Well—don't take my word for anything, of course, because I am not an attorney—but, under Utah law, that is the absolute textbook definition of Obstruction of Justice, right there:

Utah Code Annotated, Title 76, Chapter 8, Section 306:

Quote

(2)    ... [A]n actor commits obstruction of justice in a criminal investigation or proceeding if the actor, with intent to hinder, delay, or prevent the investigation, apprehension, prosecution, conviction, or punishment of any person regarding conduct that constitutes a criminal offense: ...

(b)    prevents by force, intimidation, or deception, a person from performing an act that might aid in the discovery, apprehension, prosecution, conviction, or punishment of any person ...

 

Edited September 17, 2025 by Kenngo1969

[bsjkki]

32 minutes ago, gopher said:

As an admitted news junkie, it's been interesting to see how this story has evolved in just a week.  The killer started out as a far-right, devout Mormon, Groyper, and son of a cop and turned into a far-left, gay, inactive Mormon, and the son of an owner of a countertop and cabinet installation business.

I have been thinking a lot about his parents.  Can you imagine being in their shoes?  The mom recognized her son in the photos and called him to find out where he was the day of the shooting.  He lied and said he was sick all day.  Then the dad confronted him and got him to admit he did it.  It must have been excruciatingly painful to have to turn in their own son for such a horrible crime.  Their lives will never be the same.

They are upset people are celebrating but the reason they celebrate is because of leftists stating he was a fascist, Nazi, hater. According to leftists ‘words are violence’ and once they label you that way, silencing that person is completely acceptable. 
 

In a small town in Colorado, the conservative candidates for school board had their campaign signs vandalized with Nazi symbols. The candidates must now be very cautious and increase security. Once they label you a Nazi, you are fair game for violent attacks. 
 

I’ve watched for years violent disruptions of conservative speakers on campus, attacks on conservatives at tabling events, attacks on conservatives leaving political rallies. This is, sadly, a natural progression of those who believe conservatives do not have the right to speak. It’s the Antifa mantra. 
 

 

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

They are upset people are celebrating but the reason they celebrate is because of leftists stating he was a fascist, Nazi, hater. According to leftists ‘words are violence’ and once they label you that way, silencing that person is completely acceptable. 
 

In a small town in Colorado, the conservative candidates for school board had their campaign signs vandalized with Nazi symbols. The candidates must now be very cautious and increase security. Once they label you a Nazi, you are fair game for violent attacks. 
 

I’ve watched for years violent disruptions of conservative speakers on campus, attacks on conservatives at tabling events, attacks on conservatives leaving political rallies. This is, sadly, a natural progression of those who believe conservatives do not have the right to speak. It’s the Antifa mantra. 
 

 

Why do you find that funny, @Duncan?  (Just asking.) 

Edited September 17, 2025 by Kenngo1969