What a breath of fresh air....

[Tacenda]

http://www.gregtrimble.com/the-coming-revolution-inside-of-mormonism/

This was a great article that I wanted to share. Maybe it belongs in another space, but hoped all could see it! Mods, feel free to move it where it belongs if needed.

[Calm]

An article about throwing out judgmentalism that ends in judgmentalism:

"i think this revolution will produce a people who don’t make a checklist of things they can and cannot do on the sabbath… and then hold others to their own standard and checklist. I think we’ll see a time where programmatic meetings are cut by 50% and where the efficiency of those meetings are increased by 50%. We’ll spend less time behind closed doors meeting about all the stuff we should be doing, and more time ministering to the proverbial fatherless and the widows. We’ll get back to true religion and root out any programmatic religion. 

Members will increase their personal studying of the scriptures again. Missionaries will actually start memorizing again. And callings won’t be looked at as promotions where congratulations are in order. Any form of pageantry will die with this revolution during the uprising of the greatest generation of saints this world has ever seen."

The "revolution" he is imagining seems to be just about replacing judgments he doesn't approve of with judgments he does.

[Tacenda]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

An article about throwing out judgmentalism that ends in judgmentalism:

"i think this revolution will produce a people who don’t make a checklist of things they can and cannot do on the sabbath… and then hold others to their own standard and checklist. I think we’ll see a time where programmatic meetings are cut by 50% and where the efficiency of those meetings are increased by 50%. We’ll spend less time behind closed doors meeting about all the stuff we should be doing, and more time ministering to the proverbial fatherless and the widows. We’ll get back to true religion and root out any programmatic religion. 

Members will increase their personal studying of the scriptures again. Missionaries will actually start memorizing again. And callings won’t be looked at as promotions where congratulations are in order. Any form of pageantry will die with this revolution during the uprising of the greatest generation of saints this world has ever seen."

The "revolution" he is imagining seems to be just about replacing judgments he doesn't approve of with judgments he does.

I need to admit, I was so excited with the first part of this that I posted it before reading the rest thinking this guy was a true blue Mormon through and through. 

I'll read the whole thing now. Sorry I'm kinda sad sometimes in my inability to control myself. ETA: This is the point that I got excited and immediately posted. So I almost made it to the end...

I see a place where people have study groups again to provide support for those that need friends to talk to about the things they hear on the internet and social media. I see a place where people support one another, ask questions, resolve concerns, and speak honestly about the things that give them trouble in life and in the church. I see a time where “home-teaching” is just referred to as “ministering” and more lessons will revolve around love and not quotas. I see a time where “fellowshipping” will be replaced by “friendshipping” and where pure love is a stronger motivator than guilt.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Tacenda

[Calm]

54 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I need to admit, I was so excited with the first part of this that I posted it before reading the rest thinking this guy was a true blue Mormon through and through. 

I'll read the whole thing now. Sorry I'm kinda sad sometimes in my inability to control myself. ETA: This is the point that I got excited and immediately posted. So I almost made it to the end...

I see a place where people have study groups again to provide support for those that need friends to talk to about the things they hear on the internet and social media. I see a place where people support one another, ask questions, resolve concerns, and speak honestly about the things that give them trouble in life and in the church. I see a time where “home-teaching” is just referred to as “ministering” and more lessons will revolve around love and not quotas. I see a time where “fellowshipping” will be replaced by “friendshipping” and where pure love is a stronger motivator than guilt.

I see a time when people won't assume that others' motives for doing things are for appearance only or otherwise wrong while their own are out of love.

[emeliza]

I interviewed a lady once for a visiting teaching conference.  She had been a shut in for a few years, but wrote letters for VT at that point and was a VT supervisor as she could call people.  She just had too many health issues due to age to leave the home much if at all.

Anyway, my favorite comment was along the lines of, "Sometimes when you visit people, you click and sometimes...well you don't".

That interview or conversation has always reminded me that sometimes I serve people in church that I don't necessarily like too well or get along with and I do it somewhat begrudgingly.  Other times I end up with a new best friend or good friend out of the deal.  

I think this is where it is hard for us to do as the article is saying, not due to sins or backgrounds (or at least I hope not), but because it is hard to serve someone we don't 'click' with.

[Storm Rider]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

http://www.gregtrimble.com/the-coming-revolution-inside-of-mormonism/

This was a great article that I wanted to share. Maybe it belongs in another space, but hoped all could see it! Mods, feel free to move it where it belongs if needed.

Tacenda, I think I understand why you found this post of interest and why it is important.  Loving blindly, purely is our goal and it is what all disciples of Christ strive to do.  However, the foundation this fellow used to build his vision is not very accurate.

For example. Jesus' mission on earth was not for the entire world - for Greeks etc.  He stated clearly that he came strictly for his covenant people.  You will remember the Samaritan woman for the crumbs that fall from the table - her faith made her whole, but Jesus was clear he did not come for her.  His mortal mission was focused on the House of Israel.  The mission of his apostles was to carry his message to the world - every nation, tongue, and people.  It does not mean that Jesus did not love everyone, but that he had a purpose which he fulfilled.

I could go on to criticize this guys premise or foundation, but it would certainly take away from his conclusions.  This has a lot to do with his own perspective and little to do with reality.  Jesus' teachings were clear that we should repent and be baptized.  That is the same message the Church declares to the world - Come, repent and be baptized.  Enter in and receive the Holy Ghost.  It does not matter if individuals are gay, bikers with tats, smokers, drinkers, etc. the message is the same - "Come, repent and be baptized".  

[Johnnie Cake]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I need to admit, I was so excited with the first part of this that I posted it before reading the rest thinking this guy was a true blue Mormon through and through. 

I'll read the whole thing now. Sorry I'm kinda sad sometimes in my inability to control myself. ETA: This is the point that I got excited and immediately posted. So I almost made it to the end...

I see a place where people have study groups again to provide support for those that need friends to talk to about the things they hear on the internet and social media. I see a place where people support one another, ask questions, resolve concerns, and speak honestly about the things that give them trouble in life and in the church. I see a time where “home-teaching” is just referred to as “ministering” and more lessons will revolve around love and not quotas. I see a time where “fellowshipping” will be replaced by “friendshipping” and where pure love is a stronger motivator than guilt.

I've never found anything written by Greg Trimble I would consider a breath of fresh air

[The Nehor]

It sounds like a wishlist projected onto the immediate future. A kind of personal wish-fulfillment of the same kind that convinces so many that the Second Coming is immediately imminent.

[Rain]

6 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I need to admit, I was so excited with the first part of this that I posted it before reading the rest thinking this guy was a true blue Mormon through and through. 

I'll read the whole thing now. Sorry I'm kinda sad sometimes in my inability to control myself. ETA: This is the point that I got excited and immediately posted. So I almost made it to the end...

I see a place where people have study groups again to provide support for those that need friends to talk to about the things they hear on the internet and social media. I see a place where people support one another, ask questions, resolve concerns, and speak honestly about the things that give them trouble in life and in the church. I see a time where “home-teaching” is just referred to as “ministering” and more lessons will revolve around love and not quotas. I see a time where “fellowshipping” will be replaced by “friendshipping” and where pure love is a stronger motivator than guilt.

I already see these kinds of things. Yes, I see people who criticize - I've been criticized. I see people who hog benches - I've been asked to move etc.  But I also see people who friendship. I've felt the love from VTers when I have most needed it. I have seen lessons based on love.

There is a man in our ward that seems to offend everyone. Most of his fellow high priests don't like him. Some will see this man and use him to show how offensive the church is. Some will use the high priests to show how unsupportive priesthood quorums are. 

My husband and son became his HTers. Today my husband gave a talk about when he was a Teachers Quorum advisor. He recognized that nothing he said would make the boys want to listen, but he could love them. And change happened in some of those boys. I have seen that same thing happening with this man. My husband and son are loving him. We are finding out how he loves other people - people he takes in, missionaries, refugees etc. not only in word, but actions as well. 

Some people will look at him and say the church is doing something wrong because "look how offensive this man is." They don't realize that he sits on the bench with those smokers, the drinkers etc. They think he is the problem, not the one who needs to be there for help. And I am sitting beside him because I too am in need of the atonement.

I love what Elder Uchtdorf quoted, "don't judge me because I sin differently than you do." When we judge those who judge we think we are justified, but really we are just sinning differently.

If the writer isn't seeing these things he talks about already then he isn't seeing everything. 

[Avatar4321]

This is making the rounds today.

I see love in the wards already

[Tacenda]

Thanks for your comments. I had two FB friends post this on FB today and both were TBM, so maybe it's our community that we live in here in Utah. Because I'm really surprised at the comments on this thread, I really am, maybe it's not all great this from Greg Trimble, But it sort of reminds me of SLTribune's Robert Kirby's articles and how he writes sometimes. 

I'll read it again and see what you're all talking about. It's been a busy day! 

[JLHPROF]

Quote

I can imagine a time not too far off where a gay man, a straight man, a biker with full body tats, a woman who smokes, a man who reeks of liquor, a recently married couple who is having trouble with tithing, a recently re-baptized excommunicated member, a man with a full beard and jeans, and a returned missionary who is addicted to porn sitting in the same congregation together, who make it through all three hours of church without someone dressing them down with their eyes or their words.

Statements like this are purposely designed to play on our feelings but ignore truth.
Of course all should be able to be on their journey home to Christ at whatever stage and not be looked down upon.

But these kind of statements of acceptance imply a lack of needed change.
The "culture" he is protesting in this article isn't about man made rules and image (although that is very common in the Church).  That culture when lived sincerely and not for show is about demonstrating a willingness to give our very best to God.  It doesn't matter if it's a widow's mite or a million dollar temple, it's about giving God everything you have, the very best you are capable of being at that moment in your journey.  It is amazing how many people don't recognize that.

The people in the quote above should be welcomed with open arms as giving the best they are at that stage of their journey, but they should be working to become better.  The problem with articles like this is they do nothing to encourage improvement, only to encourage the acceptance of stagnation and sin.

This article isn't about real love.  God loves all his children.  He also loves law and principle.  His work is to get his children to follow law and principle.  Not to accept their rejection of it.
Christ loved the woman taken in adultery.  That's why he told her to go and sin no more.

[Guest]

23 hours ago, Tacenda said:

http://www.gregtrimble.com/the-coming-revolution-inside-of-mormonism/

This was a great article that I wanted to share. Maybe it belongs in another space, but hoped all could see it! Mods, feel free to move it where it belongs if needed.

So often we assume that "all" are the same, that everyone is motivated to do the right thing or serve in their office just because of Church culture and to impress those watching. This idea is too cynical, and short cited. I don't and never have done my calling for those watching, except maybe because God is watching...even that is a stretch. I love my Father in Heacen and His Son Jesus Christ, and I love them because they first loved me (to borrow a scripture). It is that love they have for me, and the love I have for them that animates me, and so many others in the Church...more than most might think. I am a big fan and believer that the "right hand and the left hand should not know what the other is doing", unless what they are doing is embracing someone in need, so they act in concert. Callings that many may see as "greater or higher callings, are not". The role of any calling no the Priesthood is the role of being a servant, such that if needed washing the dirty feet of one in need. As stated above, I too see, or hope to see a day when all understand the message, and leave the 99 to go searching for the lost sheep. I dream that they will do so, not because they have been given an assignment, but because the law of the Gospel is burning within them, and they cannot help but do so. As for myself, I am a believer...I do not attend Church because of a commandment, I attend because I love it, and I love those who are there. 

I know that I am not alone, and I know that most of whom I do know are the same. I do what I can to help my around me, not because it is a Church calling, but a calling to be Christlike, because my desire is to be like Christ. I can't help it, and most I know in Church are the same. When asked in Church if anyone has helped those in need (home teaching wise) I seldom answer, unless pressed. I love as much as my weak heart can manage, and I forgive quickly, and I do not keep score. I am not blowing my own horn, because being poor in spirit, I don't have one. If I am this way, being the least of all God's creation, I know that the majority of those I worship with are the same...I know because so many times I have been on the receiving end of their love and charity. As for meetings, Saxrament and Priestood (if done right) is all we need to lead us all into a life of service and Christlike love. 

[strappinglad]

" physician , heal thyself..... first "

[Guest]

20 hours ago, strappinglad said:

" physician , heal thyself..... first "

Do you mean the author of the article, or one of the posters? Either way, always sound advice for anyone. Or is it me, being the last poster? 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Bill "Papa" Lee

[Jude2]

I thought it was a terrible article, it's stereotyping. I grew up in California and now have lived in Utah for over 40 years. Yeah I've run into a few gossips and some judging but a whole lot less than in other types on institutions and churches. The Mormon culture is a good one and I'm proud to be part of it. I live in a ward in Utah Valley, one neighbor has a gay daughter, another has a son in jail, another has a granddaughter struggling  with drug addiction, I visit teach someone whose son came home from his mission early, I'm sure if I were Bishop I'd get an earful of stuff going on. I've never heard a word of gossip, never any judging. We pray for each other, we love each other. We don't need to change one bit! Maybe some people out there should stop their own judging and start looking for the good instead!  

 

I'm going to add a little, a member of my family is struggling with a daughter going though depression and trying to commit suicide, is there some judging going on in the ward? I have no idea but the Bishop came over and informed my family member that his own son tried to do the same thing and offered to help pay for the counseling.  Where else in the world can anyone find compassion like that! 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Jude2

[Tacenda]

34 minutes ago, Jude2 said:

I thought it was a terrible article, it's stereotyping. I grew up in California and now have lived in Utah for over 40 years. Yeah I've run into a few gossips and some judging but a whole lot less than in other types on institutions and churches. The Mormon culture is a good one and I'm proud to be part of it. I live in a ward in Utah Valley, one neighbor has a gay daughter, another has a son in jail, another has a granddaughter struggling  with drug addiction, I visit teach someone whose son came home from his mission early, I'm sure if I were Bishop I'd get an earful of stuff going on. I've never heard a word of gossip, never any judging. We pray for each other, we love each other. We don't need to change one bit! Maybe some people out there should stop their own judging and start looking for the good instead!  

 

I'm going to add a little, a member of my family is struggling with a daughter going though depression and trying to commit suicide, is there some judging going on in the ward? I have no idea but the Bishop came over and informed my family member that his own son tried to do the same thing and offered to help pay for the counseling.  Where else in the world can anyone find compassion like that! 

Thanks for the sweet story and the information that your ward is the bomb!  I guess I thought Greg Trimble was a guy that people enjoyed reading. Has he turned negative all of the sudden? 

[emeliza]

25 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

 I guess I thought Greg Trimble was a guy that people enjoyed reading. Has he turned negative all of the sudden? 

I have never heard of him, but I think his writing was just too black and white instead of realizing how gray it all is.  It didn't point out the good that is already done and instead only focused on what the author thought we could be. 

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Jude2 said:

I thought it was a terrible article, it's stereotyping. I grew up in California and now have lived in Utah for over 40 years. Yeah I've run into a few gossips and some judging but a whole lot less than in other types on institutions and churches. The Mormon culture is a good one and I'm proud to be part of it. I live in a ward in Utah Valley, one neighbor has a gay daughter, another has a son in jail, another has a granddaughter struggling  with drug addiction, I visit teach someone whose son came home from his mission early, I'm sure if I were Bishop I'd get an earful of stuff going on. I've never heard a word of gossip, never any judging. We pray for each other, we love each other. We don't need to change one bit! Maybe some people out there should stop their own judging and start looking for the good instead!  

 

I'm going to add a little, a member of my family is struggling with a daughter going though depression and trying to commit suicide, is there some judging going on in the ward? I have no idea but the Bishop came over and informed my family member that his own son tried to do the same thing and offered to help pay for the counseling.  Where else in the world can anyone find compassion like that! 

This has also been my experience. I remember a man came to church and you could tell he was suffering. Some asked and he shared that he had lost his job a while back, could not make his mortgage, could not get food, that his wife's mom was in the hospital across the country possibly dying and she could not go see her. By the end of the three hour block the ward had gotten them a round trip plane ticket for her that day to go see her mom that evening, three job interviews were lined up, volunteers had set up a schedule to watch their kids while she was gone, an envelope containing over a thousand dollars was anonymously left in their mailbox, and food was delivered that evening. All that happened before the official church leadership got involved.

I poke a lot of fun at church culture and our foibles and our 'black sheep' but I can also say that LDS people are, speaking generally and not specifically, the best people on earth. If I had to throw my lot in entirely with any one group on Earth they would be it. I love them and I am honored to be a part of this organization. I have found godliness amongst them and no where else.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

This has also been my experience. I remember a man came to church and you could tell he was suffering. Some asked and he shared that he had lost his job a while back, could not make his mortgage, could not get food, that his wife's mom was in the hospital across the country possibly dying and she could not go see her. By the end of the three hour block the ward had gotten them a round trip plane ticket for her that day to go see her mom that evening, three job interviews were lined up, volunteers had set up a schedule to watch their kids while she was gone, an envelope containing over a thousand dollars was anonymously left in their mailbox, and food was delivered that evening. All that happened before the official church leadership got involved.

I poke a lot of fun at church culture and our foibles and our 'black sheep' but I can also say that LDS people are, speaking generally and not specifically, the best people on earth. If I had to throw my lot in entirely with any one group on Earth they would be it. I love them and I am honored to be a part of this organization. I have found godliness amongst them and no where else.

Thanks, sometimes I am blind and forgetful about how our members pull together. I am old enough that I should know better. Flooding memories are coming through. But one that is kind of funny is when my husband was Elders Quorum President and a woman, down on her luck, needed a car. My husband asked a guy in the presidency if he had anything on the car lot of a dealership he worked for. This guy found a decent car that the ward budget helped buy. She was happy, but she wanted it to be four doors instead of two. Can't please everyone!  

But yes, there are plenty of memories. 

[CMZ]

On 3/26/2017 at 10:30 AM, Tacenda said:

http://www.gregtrimble.com/the-coming-revolution-inside-of-mormonism/

This was a great article that I wanted to share. Maybe it belongs in another space, but hoped all could see it! Mods, feel free to move it where it belongs if needed.

I do believe the overall intent of the article is good and with many well-meaning thoughts in it and there was enough present that someone could truly be inspired by it. But I was kind of shocked that there was someone who thinks that the Church doesn't teach members to be nice to each other, to help one another, to not look down on others, to engage in personal study, etc. How could this guy have missed the absolute onslaught of Church teachings that agree with him? I was then doubly shocked to see all the comments from members left on the blog who also acted like the Church had never ever taught these things and that we are dependent on Greg Trimble riding in on his white horse to gallantly correct everything. It makes me think that there are many members who do not study the gospel on their own, who do not pay attention to general conference, etc., but who build up some strange concept of the Church in their mind as an institution that tells its membership to be self-righteous and look down on others as sinners. Then when I heard Elder Renlund and Elder Holland speak yesterday I thought, "I sure hope people are paying attention."

Edited April 2, 2017 by CMZ

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, CMZ said:

I do believe the overall intent of the article is good and with many well-meaning thoughts in it and there was enough present that someone could truly be inspired by it. But I was kind of shocked that there was someone who thinks that the Church doesn't teach members to be nice to each other, to help one another, to not look down on others, to engage in personal study, etc. How could this guy have missed the absolute onslaught of Church teachings that agree with him? I was then doubly shocked to see all the comments from members left on the blog who also acted like the Church had never ever taught these things and that we are dependent on Greg Trimble riding in on his white horse and gallantly correcting everything. It makes me think that there are many members who do not study the gospel on their own, who do not pay attention to general conference, etc., but who build up some strange concept of the Church in their mind as an institution that tells its membership to be self-righteous and look down on others as sinners. Then when I heard Elder Renlund and Elder Holland speak yesterday I thought, "I sure hope people are paying attention."

I was surprised this came from Greg since he seems very TBM and I liked mostly what he said. He may have meant it for members that don't behave or have these attributes. Maybe some members need to read it and digest. He doesn't appear to be putting the church down. I'm listening to conference today, and a brother spoke, he was Asian, about a time that he heard a member treat another badly and he didn't want to go to church. His father told him the church is perfect the members are not. So maybe this article was pointing in that direction.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Tacenda

[CMZ]

46 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I was surprised this came from Greg since he seems very TBM and I liked mostly what he said. He may have meant it for members that don't behave or have these attributes. Maybe some members need to read it and digest. He doesn't appear to be putting the church down. I'm listening to conference today, and a brother spoke, he was oriental, about a time that he heard a member treat another badly and he didn't want to go to church. His father told him the church is perfect the members are not. So maybe this article was pointing in that direction.

Yes, that's why I had mixed feelings about it. The sentiment was good, but there seemed to be this underlying assumption on his part and on the part of many commenters that such thoughts had never been expressed before until he expressed them. Like when he said that hometeaching shouldn't just be about numbers. Well, it's always been taught in the church that hometeaching is not just about numbers, that numbers need to be collected but that each home teacher is supposed to see to it that they are having qualitative visits and compassionate watch care over those to whom they are assigned. And there was a very demonstrative talk to this effect in one of the conferences last year by Elder Holland. So when Greg says, "hometeaching shouldn't just be about numbers," and commenters react as though they're going to gather up torches and pitchforks with him and go and storm the castle of the Church led by leaders who think hometeaching is just about the numbers and self-righteously educate them on the pure teachings of Christ then I think, "How in the world did they miss Elder Holland's talk last year plus all the other teachings just like it that came before?"

But, heck, MAYBE they do know those things and are just hoping more members catch on? Maybe? I'm hoping that's the case, but a lot of what I read showed people being stunningly impervious to what the Church has actually been teaching for decades. I don't want to pick it apart too much because woven throughout the deficient understandings evident in it were many truly good sentiments.

[BlueDreams]

On 3/26/2017 at 1:19 PM, emeliza said:

I interviewed a lady once for a visiting teaching conference.  She had been a shut in for a few years, but wrote letters for VT at that point and was a VT supervisor as she could call people.  She just had too many health issues due to age to leave the home much if at all.

Anyway, my favorite comment was along the lines of, "Sometimes when you visit people, you click and sometimes...well you don't".

That interview or conversation has always reminded me that sometimes I serve people in church that I don't necessarily like too well or get along with and I do it somewhat begrudgingly.  Other times I end up with a new best friend or good friend out of the deal.  

I think this is where it is hard for us to do as the article is saying, not due to sins or backgrounds (or at least I hope not), but because it is hard to serve someone we don't 'click' with.

I got a new calling this last year as a visiting teaching coordinator. Before this I'd really was doing poorly as a VT. I'd just allowed life to be too busy for it. So when I got the call I made a silent goal to actually do my visiting teaching. One I click with and the other I still enjoy. But the odd thing is, knowing them and having the calling has actually helped me feel connected to the ward in a way I generally don't because it's rare that I can go to activities due to work and I'm on the older end of the YSA. I really wouldn't want to see VT removed, since it works when it's actually done. And my home teachers as a kid was one of the only reasons i received a blessing at all as a teen. 

I find it funny how quick we are to want to get rid of programs simply because they dont jive well with us. that's hardly a good way to measure the overall effectiveness of something. Its been pretty obvious to me since my mission why HT/VT are not going away. They can be extremely crucial in some of those desires the article mentioned in the first place.

 

And there is NO WAY I could get behind memorization again. i never did it, never needed it, not even my mission, and did better by...ya know...reading the books  

with luv,

BD

Edited April 3, 2017 by BlueDreams