"smithmas" 2014?

[Teancum]

So, recalling last year's thread about the "Smithmas" nonsense (link) I have been curiously checking Google to see if discussion about "Smithmas" would emerge again this year and if it is indeed, as I called it last year, "a perennial anti-Mormon lie."

 

As yet, I've seen no mention of the "Smithmas" meme from any stridently anti-Mormon sources or from any faithful believers (as though faithful believers would be apt to acknowledge such a thing).

 

The only sources I have seen bringing it up so far are some of the nominal Mormons over at the New Order Mormon discussion board.

 

I've said it before: With members like these, who needs antagonists?

Oh you need them to keep you arrogantly and self righteously defensive, sort of like the clear intent of this thread.

 

Clean it up Teancum.

[Scott Lloyd]

Oh you need them to keep you arrogantly and self righteously defensive, sort of like the clear intent of this thread.

Ouch.

Merry Christmas, Teancum.

Hope you have a better day tomorrow.

[Scott Lloyd]

Careful Scott, you may have inadvertently taken your first step on the slippery slope to anti-Mormonism. It often starts with with a mild criticism of the Lord's Anointed, or in this case those they've chosen to make inspired decisions regarding church sponsored displays.

So it was the First Presidency and apostles who put up that diorama? I thought it was a student group on the BYU campus.

In any case, it is anachronistic, and I would say so either way.

But that's a trivial matter, hardly worth mentioning, much less obsessing over.

And accurate or not, this modest expression of honor for the prophet of the Restoration in the bicentennial year of his birth is certainly nothing to warrant a false perception -- and a false stereotype that persists nearly a decade after the fact -- that Mormons slight Jesus Christ in favor of Joseph Smith at Christmas time.

Why Me understated the matter when he said it was "much ado about nothing."

Edited December 17, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[Sevenbak]

I'm looking specifically for 2014 occurrences of it.

The usual suspects over at Free Republic have started their what I can only assume is their 12 days of "Smithmas marathon".  It seems to be an annual tradition there to deceive the uneducated and spam the search engines.

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3237642/posts

[Sevenbak]

I take that back, It's not the 12 days of Smithmas.  They've accelerated their offerings to multiple daily Smithmas cheer.  Here's another.

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3238026/posts

Edited December 17, 2014 by Sevenbak

[Scott Lloyd]

The usual suspects over at Free Republic have started their what I can only assume is their 12 days of "Smithmas marathon".  It seems to be an annual tradition there to deceive the uneducated and spam the search engines.

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3237642/posts

Ah. I wondered whether that was going to happen again.

So things really haven't improved much after all, since they have been the main drivers of this thing the past several years.

Now, we need only expect somebody over at the Mormon Defamation Board to carry it forth and the tradition will be pretty much fulfilled.

And so it goes.

[Rain]

I've not heard of "smithmas" before, but as soon as I saw this title I knew what the term meant because for years I did see/hear far more about Joseph Smith in church than about Christ in December and it really irked me. So far this year I've heard nothing and it has really been nice. I'm in a different ward so maybe it just comes down to some wards hear a lot about JS in December and some don't.

[Garden Girl]

I've not heard of "smithmas" before, but as soon as I saw this title I knew what the term meant because for years I did see/hear far more about Joseph Smith in church than about Christ in December and it really irked me. So far this year I've heard nothing and it has really been nice. I'm in a different ward so maybe it just comes down to some wards hear a lot about JS in December and some don't.

 

What is it with this "Smithmas" nonsense....  I had never heard of it until a year or so ago on this Board... in my ward we concentrate on Christ, as we did for the RS dinner last week... a beautiful program all about Christ.  Not one word about Joseph Smith or his birthday...

 

GG

[The Nehor]

If, by this time next year, I am able to report that the stereotype seems to be altogether absent from current Internet discourse, no one will be more pleased than I.

note to self: Make a Merry Smithmas thread every year.

[rockpond]

Did somebody here start a thread to talk about "how we don't talk about it"?

 

But if you mean to imply that my bringing it up serves to perpetuate it, events would seem to contradict the notion. That is to say, in the wake of the thread I started last year,  the toxic anti-Mormons this year seem to have been silent about it -- so far.

 

As for killing a criticism by letting it "die from neglect," do you really think the Church's critics would shut up if defenders stopped rebutting them? Seems like a rather naive notion to me.

 

I only recall hearing about "Smithmas" twice.  Both times were from threads that you started.

[Scott Lloyd]

I've not heard of "smithmas" before, but as soon as I saw this title I knew what the term meant because for years I did see/hear far more about Joseph Smith in church than about Christ in December and it really irked me. So far this year I've heard nothing and it has really been nice. I'm in a different ward so maybe it just comes down to some wards hear a lot about JS in December and some don't.

I, on the other hand, having been steeped in all things Mormon through six decades of living, other than the bicentennial year of his birth in 2005, can scarcely recall a handful of instances when I have encountered so much as a passing mention of the Prophet's birth in at Christmastime, much less seeing and hearing "far more about Joseph Smith in church than about Christ in December."

 

I'm trying to conceive in my mind, though, what it might be like to be in a ward where "far more attention" is paid to Joseph Smith than to Jesus in December. It is so foreign to my own experience that I'm having difficulty imagining it. I can't speak to what may have gone on in a ward or wards where you live, but I'm a fairly close observer of events in the Church on a general level, and I just haven't seen it.

 

I"m wondering what you mean by seeing/hearing "far more about Joseph Smith in church than about Christ in December." Did that entail four weeks of sermons and hymns and lessons all dealing directly with Joseph Smith and his birth, so much that it eclipsed any mention of Christ or Christmas? Or are you counting discussion of core doctrines in the Church that one might expect to hear on any given Sunday but which don't deal with observance of Joseph Smith's birth: Book of Mormon, latter-day restoration of the gospel and priesthood authority and keys, continuing revelation, etc.? If so, I can perhaps understand where you would get such a perception. But even if that's what's happening, on any given Sunday there is the observance of the sacrament of the Lord's supper with associated hymn singing, prayers and talks closed in the name of Jesus Christ, etc. And the things I mentioned -- Book of Mormon, continuing revelation, latter-day restoration of priesthood keys and authority -- all pertain to Jesus Christ even more than they do to Joseph Smith. The Book of Mormon is "another testament of Christ," continuing revelation is given by Jesus Christ through prophets and directly to individuals, priesthood keys and authority were restored by Jesus Christ along with the fullness of His gospel.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

I only recall hearing about "Smithmas" twice.  Both times were from threads that you started.

Be that as it may, it takes only an easy Google search to understand that it is a recurring stereotype propounded by some critics of the Church of Jesus Christ.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

note to self: Make a Merry Smithmas thread every year.

No. According to Cinepro and company, we are to ignore and it will just go away (though that hasn't happened in the past).

[rockpond]

Be that as it may, it takes only an easy Google search to understand that it is a pervasive stereotype propounded by some critics of the Church of Jesus Christ.

 

No. According to Cinepro and company, we are to ignore and it will just go away (though that hasn't happened in the past).

 

Do whatever you want... I'm just saying that I hang out (virtually speaking) in some groups that I'm sure you would consider "antagonistic" (MoSto, A Thoughtful Faith, etc) and I only hear about Smithmas from you.

 

The top hit from my google search for "Smithmas" was this 2005 article from By Common Consent ---

http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/12/19/dealing-with-smithmas/

 

Second hit... a different "Smithmas"... this one has something to do with Doctor Who ---

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Smithmas

 

Third hit... an odd thread of unorganized posts on exmormon.org

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon009.htm

 

Fourth hit... Daniel Peterson... NOT a critic

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2012/11/merry-smithmas.html

 

Fifth hit... back to a Doctor Who thing

 

I'm just sayin'... It might not be as bad as you think it is.

[Scott Lloyd]

What is it with this "Smithmas" nonsense....  I had never heard of it until a year or so ago on this Board... in my ward we concentrate on Christ, as we did for the RS dinner last week... a beautiful program all about Christ.  Not one word about Joseph Smith or his birthday...

 

GG

I fear that some people have a deep-seated antipathy toward Joseph Smith (that very thing was prophesied by the angel Moroni during his visit to the young prophet) and would prefer that he not be mentioned at all. So they will seize upon any excuse to complain, even an absurd notion such as the stereotype that Joseph gets more attention at Christmas time than Jesus.

[Scott Lloyd]

Do whatever you want... I'm just saying that I hang out (virtually speaking) in some groups that I'm sure you would consider "antagonistic" (MoSto, A Thoughtful Faith, etc) and I only hear about Smithmas from you.

 

The top hit from my google search for "Smithmas" was this 2005 article from By Common Consent ---

http://bycommonconsent.com/2005/12/19/dealing-with-smithmas/

 

Second hit... a different "Smithmas"... this one has something to do with Doctor Who ---

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Smithmas

 

Third hit... an odd thread of unorganized posts on exmormon.org

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon009.htm

 

Fourth hit... Daniel Peterson... NOT a critic

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2012/11/merry-smithmas.html

 

Fifth hit... back to a Doctor Who thing

 

I'm just sayin'... It might not be as bad as you think it is.

Having observed it the past few years, I think I have a pretty good handle on it. And it's bad enough. Not the worst thing that anti-Mormons and antagonists throw at us, but it warrants comment nonetheless. And it is so transparently false that it cries out for rebuttal.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[rockpond]

Having observed it the past few years, I think I have a pretty good handle on it. And it's bad enough. Not the worst thing that anti-Mormons and antagonists throw at us, but it warrants comment nonetheless. And it is so transparently false that it cries out for rebuttal.

 

Okay... well, I'm doing my part:  We have NO sacrament meeting talks planned on Joseph Smith in December!

[Scott Lloyd]

Okay... well, I'm doing my part:  We have NO sacrament meeting talks planned on Joseph Smith in December!

I think it would it would be fine if you did have one or more such talks planned. We should have enough backbone that our practice isn't driven by ignorant and dishonest accusations.

 

Afterthought from your last post: Maybe the antagonists you "hang out with" are smart enough and honest enough not to perpetuate such a stupid stereotype.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[rockpond]

I think it would it would be fine if you did have one or more such talks planned. We should have enough backbone that our practice isn't driven by ignorant and dishonest accusations.

 

True.  Still... I love Joseph Smith but I think that our December meetings should be centered around Christ.  We have plenty of other opportunities to honor the great man and prophet of the Restoration.

 

Afterthought from your last post: Maybe the antagonists you "hang out with" are smart enough and honest enough not to perpetuate such a stupid stereotype.

 

I certainly hope so.

[Ahab]

note to self: Make a Merry Smithmas thread every year.

And don't forget to say Happy Smithmas! to everybody on Smithmas day!!!

[Scott Lloyd]

True.  Still... I love Joseph Smith but I think that our December meetings should be centered around Christ.  We have plenty of other opportunities to honor the great man and prophet of the Restoration.

 

I could easily prepare a talk centered around Christ that included appropriate and relevant discussion of the mission of Joseph Smith and even mention of his birth in December.

 

Of course, such mention, however brief and passing, would be quite enough to set off anew the "Smithmas" detractors.

 

If I never started another thread on the topic, they would find an excuse somewhere. And if they couldn't find it, they would invent it from whole cloth.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[Rain]

I, on the other hand, having been steeped in all things Mormon through six decades of living, other than the bicentennial year of his birth in 2005, can scarcely recall a handful of instances when I have encountered so much as a passing mention of the Prophet's birth in at Christmastime, much less seeing and hearing "far more about Joseph Smith in church than about Christ in December."

 

I'm trying to conceive in my mind, though, what it might be like to be in a ward where "far more attention" is paid to Joseph Smith than to Jesus in December. It is so foreign to my own experience that I'm having difficulty imagining it. I can't speak to what may have gone on in a ward or wards where you live, but I'm a fairly close observer of events in the Church on a general level, and I just haven't seen it.

 

I"m wondering what you mean by seeing/hearing "far more about Joseph Smith in church than about Christ in December." Did that entail four weeks of sermons and hymns and lessons all dealing directly with Joseph Smith and his birth, so much that it eclipsed any mention of Christ or Christmas? Or are you counting discussion of core doctrines in the Church that one might expect to hear on any given Sunday but which don't deal with observance of Joseph Smith's birth: Book of Mormon, latter-day restoration of the gospel and priesthood authority and keys, continuing revelation, etc.? If so, I can perhaps understand where you would get such a perception. But even if that's what's happening, on any given Sunday there is the observance of the sacrament of the Lord's supper with associated hymn singing, prayers and talks closed in the name of Jesus Christ, etc. And the things I mentioned -- Book of Mormon, continuing revelation, latter-day restoration of priesthood keys and authority -- all pertain to Jesus Christ even more than they do to Joseph Smith. The Book of Mormon is "another testament of Christ," continuing revelation is given by Jesus Christ through prophets and directly to individuals, priesthood keys and authority were restored by Jesus Christ along with the fullness of His gospel.

 

Please don't treat me like a critic who nitpicks every little thing about the church.  That just isn't me. I'm really glad you haven't experienced what I have.  I love this church.  I love the Lord.  I have a testimony of Joseph Smith.  The experiences I had in Palmyra a couple of years ago were sweet.

 

 

 

Did that entail four weeks of sermons and hymns and lessons all dealing directly with Joseph Smith and his birth, so much that it eclipsed any mention of Christ or Christmas?

 

In 2005, yes it did.  And then from there it continued throughout 2006.  Talk after talk was centered on his life.  I could count months when Jesus was only mentioned in the prayers. So much so that when I moved in 7/2006 I very much struggled to be obedient when I was asked to give a talk on Joseph Smith in my new ward.  

 

The couple of years after that I searched for things of Christ.  I looked for his gospel and principles in the talks.  And those things were taught - as taught by Joseph instead of Christ.  Some of the years I was writing thank you notes to each person giving a talk as it helped me listen better so it wasn't like I was just tuning in when Joseph Smith was mentioned.

 

Since then things have gotten better, as you would expect with the celebration, but year after year in sacrament meeting I have heard more of Joseph in December than I have heard of Christ - till this year.  Well, maybe last year as well.  It's hard to say about last year because mentally and emotionally I was just not with it.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Rain

[Calm]

I can see how some areas can pick up traditions from each other, especially in the same stake or region. There was the popularity of the SM that was devoted to people's favourite hymns for example. People repeat what they see others do, what they see others think as important. We learn from each other that way. It has its good and bad points, just like everything else.

[Scott Lloyd]

I can see how some areas can pick up traditions from each other, especially in the same stake or region. There was the popularity of the SM that was devoted to people's favourite hymns for example. People repeat what they see others do, what they see others think as important. We learn from each other that way. It has its good and bad points, just like everything else.

You're right, of course.

 

As ward choir director, I was feeling dejected this year because circumstances were such that we ran out of rehearsal time before we could prepare more than a couple of Christmas selections to perform in sacrament meeting. It was with considerable relief that I came to the rather sudden realization the other day that one doesn't have to occupy an entire sacrament meeting at Christmas time with choir performances strung together with brief pieces of narration. It is just fine to have a couple of choir songs with the rest of the time occupied by talks assigned by the bishopric. In fact, the handbook directs that a sacrament meeting should not be entirely occupied by music.

 

We do tend to get overly entrenched in traditions and practices sometimes. It's human nature.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[tonie]

I think that this thread and the responses too it, demonstrate that "smithmas" isn't an issue for critics and not something they attack people of the Church.