"smithmas" 2014?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Did I say "NameOnlyMormons"? Freudian slip.

 

New Order Mormons.

 

As punishment, I pledge to deny myself the consumption of any fruitcake this holiday season.

I thought part of Smithmas was that you had to eat fruitcake and that it was a sin not to partake because it was, afterall, JS favorite food?

[Scott Lloyd]

Just to play devil's advocate here:

 

1. Who cares what enemies of the Church think of the things we choose to celebrate?

2. Christ was NOT born at Christmas - why do we think celebrating it is SUCH a big deal to our Christ focus?

3. Joseph Smith played a significant role in bringing the gospel to our day.  Why should it be a big deal to remember his birthday?

 

I don't think you're being a devil's advocate. In fact, with this you have precisely defined my position. My only concern is correction of falsehood.

 

 

I thought part of Smithmas was that you had to eat fruitcake and that it was a sin not to partake because it was, afterall, JS favorite food?

I detest fruitcake.

 

I deliberately devised a punishment for myself that would be easy to bear.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

I don't believe everything in the D & C.  I think Joseph got carried away and said something was a revelation when it was convenient, or helped the work or he needed something. 

 

I on the other hand, see in the published revelations evidence of Joseph's honesty and integrity. When the Lord chastised or upbraided him, he published it for the world to see. If the Lord instructed him to perform a mission or fulfill a role as prophet of the Restoration, he published that too, knowing that people like you would probably accuse him of self-aggrandizement or putting it in for his own convenience (again, a fulfillment of the prophecy of the angel Moroni).

 

 

Also, for the reference you asked for.  I've heard the actual "Council of the Fifty" minutes will soon be available to read, so maybe we'll be able to get a better understanding.  Or maybe they're already out. 

 

 

They will be published as part of the Joseph Smith Papers Project. But you don't have to wait. You can go to the Church History Library now and see them.

 

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_government/The_Council_of_Fifty   Joseph Smith received a revelation which called for the organization of a special council....

 

Me:  Fair Mormon goes on to what it does best...put it in a better light.

 

If you're acquainted with the FairMormon content on this subject, then you ought to understand it in its proper context and not be at the mercy of the distortions made by antagonists. In the final analysis all faithful Latter-day Saints who are striving to be worthy of exaltation will be kings and queens.

 

But this is not a thread to discuss the Council of Fifty or the doctrine of priesthood and theosis. Start another thread if you want to do that.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

A few posts ago, rockpond graciously provided a link to Daniel Peterson's "Mormon Times" column of two days ago in the Deseret News.I think it would be well here to quote an excerpt from that column:

 

Joseph was told by the angel Moroni “that God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people” (Joseph Smith — History 1:33). And this prediction has certainly proved accurate. Although born an obscure farm boy on the American frontier, his name is known around the world, and he remains as controversial today as ever he was in life.

I’ve been disheartened in recent years to hear negative comments about Joseph even among certain members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and perhaps especially from my own tribe: There’s a temptation among academics, particularly among biographers and maybe scholars generally, to condescend somewhat toward the people whom they study, to view them as limited by their time and imperfections, forgetting that we, too, are constrained by our times and our perhaps much more significant flaws and incapacities.

Believing Latter-day Saints should always remember that it was Joseph who was divinely called and “blessed to open the last dispensation.” We weren’t, and that fact might actually be significant.

He wasn’t perfect and never claimed to be, but he also wasn’t evil. He was a good man. “No one need suppose me guilty of any great or malignant sins,” he reflected in 1838. “A disposition to commit such was never in my nature” (Joseph Smith-History 1:28). ...

I don’t advocate idolizing him, but I do hope that the Saints will continue to appreciate him.

Joseph Smith gave us more pages of revealed scripture than any other prophet in history. And those pages are suffused throughout with testimonies of Jesus Christ, affirming his deity, his atoning sacrifice and his victory over death. ...

Joseph was a sincere and devout man who went to his death affirming his testimony. It’s no coincidence that the Greek word “martyr” also means “witness.”

Edited December 19, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

As long as I'm linking to newspaper articles, I'll go ahead and post this one that I wrote five years ago about the Prophet Joseph Smith.

 

As I recall, my publishing this piece was later used by anti-Mormons as an occasion to accuse us of "Smithmas" observance, but I don't care. Let them carp. As JLHPROF said above, "Who cares what enemies of the Church think of the things we choose to celebrate?"

[Thinking]

I think the criticism started in 2005 when the Church made a big deal about the 200th anniversary of Joseph Smith's birth. Every year there seems to be less attention given to Joseph Smith's birthday, and consequently fewer critics bring it up. Of course somebody then starts a thread criticizing the critics for ever making a big deal out of the LDS Church making a big deal in 2005.

[Scott Lloyd]

I think the criticism started in 2005 when the Church made a big deal about the 200th anniversary of Joseph Smith's birth. Every year there seems to be less attention given to Joseph Smith's birthday, and consequently fewer critics bring it up. Of course somebody then starts a thread criticizing the critics for ever making a big deal out of the LDS Church making a big deal in 2005.

The point I made last year -- and I think I may have reiterated it this year -- is that it is not unreasonable or unusual to pay extra attention to an honored figure during a landmark year such as the 200th anniversary of his birth, regardless of the month when he was born. But even in 2005, I don't remember there being an observance of Joseph's birthday such that it eclipsed the observance of Christmas and the celebration of the birth of Christ. In a post on this thread, why me called the uproar in reaction to the observances that year "much ado about nothing." I agree.

 

But 2005 came and went, and it became business as usual, with scarcely a mention being made in December about the birth of Joseph Smith. But the antagonists and critics -- many of whom detest Joseph Smith anyway and would be displeased with any sort of honor being paid him, however limited in scope -- would not cease their calumny and mockery, but carried it forward year after year, to the point that one could not do as Daniel Peterson did this year and as I did in 2009 -- write an article honoring the prophet --without having them use it as an occasion to spew forth their bile about "Smithmas" and allegedly de-emphasizing Christ.

 

Ultimately some of us have felt enough is enough, and it is time to call them on their obnoxious and tiresome practice of spreading falsehood about how Mormons allegedly view Joseph Smith in comparison to Christ.

 

Does the Prophet really get more attention than Jesus among us in December?

 

A few years ago, I encountered a claim from somebody that Joseph Smith is mentioned more often in general conference than Christ. This is a claim that is easily testable, because the conference talks are published verbatim online and can be searched digitally. I did so and found not only that Christ is mentioned more often but that the ratio isn't even close. Joseph Smith is mentioned a tiny fraction of the time in comparison to how often Christ is mentioned and discussed. I think those who make this claim have their consciousness colored by their prejudices and expectations so that they're not getting an accurate perception.

 

I think the same situation may be present to some degree with the claim that Joseph Smith is honored -- or even mentioned -- more than Christ at Christmastime.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[Sevenbak]

You're not counting the thread on the NameOnlyMormons board then?

And, as my friend Sevenbak has observed, the guy on Free Republic raises it every year. He surfs the net for excuses he can twist into Mormons celebrating Smithmas and thus spam the Internet with search engines hits. That's his M.O.

And low and behold, the perpetrator is bragging that his plan is working.  The audacity of these people is unreal.

 

Lest there be any doubt...

 

"Smithmas FR articles bumping up among top five hits on Google searches! [Vanity]

Colofornian | Dec. 20, 2014 | Colofornian 

Posted on 12/20/2014 6:15:25 AM PST by Colofornian"

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3239208/posts

 

Edit to add:  I think he is actually a she.  "Colofornian" is a long time anti over at FR.

Edited December 21, 2014 by Sevenbak

[intra]

. . . .  or  we could talk about Christ  . . . .

Arise, O Lord; let not man prevail:
let the heathen be judged in thy sight. 
Put them in fear, O Lord:
that the nations may know themselves to be but men.

Selah.
(Psalm 9:19-20)

 

[Scott Lloyd]

or  we could talk about Christ  . . . .

As opposed to doing what? Edited December 21, 2014 by Scott Lloyd

[Garden Girl]

I just got home from Sacrament Meeting... it was a lovely musical program with scriptural reading and comments... all referring to and teaching of Jeaus Christ, his birth, his ministry, and as our Savior and Redeemer...

There was not one word... not one... regarding Joseph Smith, not even about his birthday, etc etc.  We immersed ourselves in the beauty of worshipping our Savior and his birth and life.

 

GG

[JLHPROF]

I just got home from Sacrament Meeting... it was a lovely musical program with scriptural reading and comments... all referring to and teaching of Jeaus Christ, his birth, his ministry, and as our Savior and Redeemer...

There was not one word... not one... regarding Joseph Smith, not even about his birthday, etc etc.  We immersed ourselves in the beauty of worshipping our Savior and his birth and life.

 

GG

 

Oh, we sang Praise to the Man, but the rest of the meeting revolved around Christ.

[Scott Lloyd]

I just got home from Sacrament Meeting... it was a lovely musical program with scriptural reading and comments... all referring to and teaching of Jeaus Christ, his birth, his ministry, and as our Savior and Redeemer...

There was not one word... not one... regarding Joseph Smith, not even about his birthday, etc etc.  We immersed ourselves in the beauty of worshipping our Savior and his birth and life.

 

GG

I'm ward choir director. We didn't have a cantata type program like we've done in previous years (other ward wouldn't allow us enough chapel time for rehearsal) but we did have two youth talks and two adult talks, all beautifully centered around the Christmas story. Our two choir selections were "Good Christian Men rejoice and a medley of "O Little Town of Bethlehem" and "Oh Come, All Ye Faithful". Nothing directly dealing with Joseph Smith, though it wouldn't have bothered me if there had been.

[Scott Lloyd]

Oh, we sang Praise to the Man, but the rest of the meeting revolved around Christ.

And even that hymn says Joseph "communed with Jehovah" (Christ) and that "Jesus anointed that prophet and seer." Properly understood, our testimony of the divinity of Joseph's mission cannot be severed from the testimony of Jesus.

[Ahab]

I forget, when is Joseph Smith's birthday?

Tomorrow.

Happy day before Smithmas everybody!

[pogi]

Tomorrow.

Happy day before Smithmas everybody!

 

It's finally Smithmas Eve, I am so excited!   We have the tradition of giving Joseph Smith pajamas to every one in our family to wear on Smithmas morning...yay!!

[Ahab]

To be clear, I agree with you. I think most any faithful Latter-day Saint would.

It's enemies and critics of the Church who try to promote the notion that Mormons observe "Smithmas."

I am not in favor of approving of people putting a negative spin on what could otherwise be seen as a positive thing, and henceforth I will celebrate Smithmas for the day that it could be seen as when looking at it in a positive light.

Happy day before Smithmas everybody!

And happy 3 days before Christmas!