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Christ Visits Other Sheep - In Europe

hagoth7

By hagoth7
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hagoth7 Mentor

hagoth7

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In another thread, brightpath said:

Joseph was and still is in America (Lamanites). Judah is in Israel and the lost 10 tribes are waiting to come from the north. Where is the record of Christ's visit to Europe? Joseph has the book of Mormon, Judah has the bible. Where is the reference from JS and Brigham about ephraim in Europe?

In this Ensign article Joseph is quoted as saying: "There are thousands of good people in England and those old countries who are waiting for the fullness of the gospel, and it will not be long before they will flock to Zion, for Ephraim dwells largely in those parts.”

In the same article it says: 'Brigham Young spoke of the focus upon the “sons of Ephraim” in the early gathering of Israel, whom he identified with Britain when he told the Saints, “They are the Anglo-Saxon race”' (Journal of Discourses, 10:188).

The Angles and the Saxons came from Germania, the continent, before settling in Britain. Hence the relevance of Christ's visit to Germania. I hope that is helpful.

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hagoth7 Mentor

hagoth7

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That's particularly interesting considering a discussion we had on here a while ago about Nephites possibly being the ancestors of some Germanic tribes.

I'm somewhat surprised you remember. It has been three or four years since that discussion.
Avatar4321 Grand Master

Avatar4321

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I'm somewhat surprised you remember. It has been three or four years since that discussion.

I remember alot of things. I just forget the important ones:)

I thought it was an very unique and interesting discussion.

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Alan Veteran

Alan

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Romans were Gentiles! If Christ visited Europe then where are the records. Joseph has the BorM and Judah has the Bible.

The Book of Mormon speaks of other books coming forth in the last days. Some have interpreted this to refer to things like the Dead Sea Scrolls etc. Just because no British record of Christ's visit has yet been found doesn't mean it never will be.

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ERayR Grand Master

ERayR

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On a slight tangent - there is a legend that when Christ was a child he visited the Roseland in Cornwall, Britain (among other places), with his uncle Joseph of Aramathea - for what it's worth :)

As I recall a part of that is that his mother Mary was raised in Britain and brought to Jerusalem by Joseph of Arimathea.

rodheadlee Grand Master

rodheadlee

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Romans were Gentiles! If Christ visited Europe then where are the records. Joseph has the BorM and Judah has the Bible.

It only makes sense to hide the Lost 10 Tribes among the gentiles. Where else would Heavenly Father hide them? I beieve sooner or later we will have a record from each tribe, but it may not be until Christ returns.

brightpath Collaborator

brightpath

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And how would Nephi know?

Most Britons in the church have patriarchal blessings informing them they are literal descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Mine does, and then goes on to say "you have come through the loins of Ephraim". The migrations I mentioned (Saxons etc) were rich in Israelite (not Jewish) blood.

Now, I'm not saying there isn't any gentile blood mixed in because of course there is. We may be scriptually a gentile nation (as is the US) but we're one that is positively teeming with the blood of Israel, as are other nations of northern Europe such as the Scandinavian countries.

There is a lot of research out there on this subject, both LDS and non-LDS, and they make a very, very good case.

How would Nephi know! really? He only was a prophet of God prophesying about the Gentile invasion of the Americas. Christ appeared in Jerusalem and we have a record(Bible) of it. Christ appeared in America and we have a record(BorM) of it. Where is the record of Christ appearing in Europe? The lost 10 tribes are just that lost. Only God knows where they are. They will come from the north after the New Jerusalem is built. See 3 Nephi 21 and read about the signs and sequence of events.
Alan Veteran

Alan

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How would Nephi know! really? He only was a prophet of God prophesying about the Gentile invasion of the Americas. Christ appeared in Jerusalem and we have a record(Bible) of it. Christ appeared in America and we have a record(BorM) of it. Where is the record of Christ appearing in Europe? The lost 10 tribes are just that lost. Only God knows where they are. They will come from the north after the New Jerusalem is built. See 3 Nephi 21 and read about the signs and sequence of events.

I'm sorry Brightpath, you are obviously not very well read on this subject. That's ok, you don't need to be. But there are many references to modern Israel (not the Jews) in the Bible which can only mean Great Britain and it's commonwealth. The US gets a mention too as modern Manassah.

When you think about it, how can a nation which had the largest Empire the world has ever seen (around 25% of the entire globe), which spread the Christian faith and the rule of law throughout the world etc; and the world's most powerful nation (the US) not get a mention in the Bible!

rodheadlee Grand Master

rodheadlee

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How would Nephi know! really? He only was a prophet of God prophesying about the Gentile invasion of the Americas. Christ appeared in Jerusalem and we have a record(Bible) of it. Christ appeared in America and we have a record(BorM) of it. Where is the record of Christ appearing in Europe? The lost 10 tribes are just that lost. Only God knows where they are. They will come from the north after the New Jerusalem is built. See 3 Nephi 21 and read about the signs and sequence of events.

They are scattered among ALL nations hidden among the Gentiles. At the time Nephi wrote this many were already scattered to the Isles of the Sea,. Nephi doesn't say it can't be known where they are only that at time no one knew their location.

1 Nephi 22:

3 Wherefore, the things of which I have read are things pertaining to things both atemporal and spiritual; for it appears that the house of Israel, sooner or later, will be bscattered upon all the face of the earth, and also camong all nations.

4 And behold, there are many who are already lost from the knowledge of those who are at Jerusalem. Yea, the more part of all the tribes have been bled away; and they are cscattered to and fro upon the disles of the sea; and whither they are none of us knoweth, save that we know that they have been led away.

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ERayR Grand Master

ERayR

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I'm somewhat surprised you remember. It has been three or four years since that discussion.

I was and am impressed that discussion and have thought much on its significance. If you have any updates please PM me. Thanks

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brightpath Collaborator

brightpath

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I'm sorry Brightpath, you are obviously not very well read on this subject. That's ok, you don't need to be. But there are many references to modern Israel (not the Jews) in the Bible which can only mean Great Britain and it's commonwealth. The US gets a mention too as modern Manassah.

When you think about it, how can a nation which had the largest Empire the world has ever seen (around 25% of the entire globe), which spread the Christian faith and the rule of law throughout the world etc; and the world's most powerful nation (the US) not get a mention in the Bible!

Apparently you are not! I will stick with the scriptures and you can stick with speculation. Read Nephi 13. Nephi refers to great Britain as the mother gentile. You are adopted Israel if you make it. You are not the literal seed of Ephraim. God told Nephi so in this chapter. Read the title page of the BorM. There are 3 groups of people on earth. The Lamanites, Jews, and Gentiles. The lost tribes will come after the new Jerusalem is built. See 3 Nephi 21.

Alan Veteran

Alan

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Apparently you are not! I will stick with the scriptures and you can stick with speculation. Read Nephi 13. Nephi refers to great Britain as the mother gentile. You are adopted Israel if you make it. You are not the literal seed of Ephraim. God told Nephi so in this chapter. Read the title page of the BorM. There are 3 groups of people on earth. The Lamanites, Jews, and Gentiles. The lost tribes will come after the new Jerusalem is built. See 3 Nephi 21.

Sorry, in my view you are 100% incorrect. I have yet to meet anyone with British ancestry that is adopted Israel. I have met people from southern Germany and other areas in the south of the European continent who are, according to their patriarchal blessings, adopted into the house of Israel. However, most patriarchal blessings I have come across (and I make a point of asking people this question as it is a pet subject of mine) state unequivocally that they are literal Israel and have come through the loins of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The lost tribes are scattered among the nations of the earth but are particularly concentrated here. For example, I know a number of Irishmen who are of the tribe of Dan. I know one who is from Gad.

The British Isles and much of northern Europe are rich in the blood of Israel. The British emblems of the lion and the unicorn are thoroughly Israelite; as is the Irish harp motif. To be honest the evidence is over-whelming if one takes the time to study it.

As for your claim there are three groups on the earth (Lamanites, Jews and Gentiles), that is just plain wrong in my view and does not accord with scripture. Shem, Ham and Japheth were the fathers of the three main groups upon the earth according to scripture. Broadly speaking Shem fathered the Semetic peoples including the Israelites (not just the Jews), Ham the Canaanites (black race) and Japheth the Gentiles.

brightpath Collaborator

brightpath

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You can speculate all you want. Nephi referred to your land as the mother gentile nation and referred to your people to coming to america as Gentiles. Nephi also said America will be invaded by Gentiles and be set up as a free people to prepare for the coming forth of the BofM. Read Nephi 13. Gentile nations that mainly invaded The Americas were England, Spain, Portugal, France, and the blacks(slaves).

MormonMason Mentor

MormonMason

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Keep in mind that a number of the Spaniards actually were Sephardi Jews and/or were descendants of those who had converted to Christianity. This is something that has been shown to be the case with DNA studies. So, not everyone who came over here in those invasions were Gentiles, in any case.

brightpath Collaborator

brightpath

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Also I don't claim there are 3 groups, Moroni did. He is he one that wrote he title page of the BorM under the direction of God. Moroni said there are 3 groups. The Lamanites(Joseph), the Jews( Judah), and the Gentiles(rest of the world). Notice he did not include the 10 tribes because they will come from the north after the New Jerusalem is built. See 3 Nephi 21. The chosen lineage came from Shem who was the prince of peace.

brightpath Collaborator

brightpath

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Keep in mind that a number of the Spaniards actually were Sephardi Jews and/or were descendants of those who had converted to Christianity. This is something that has been shown to be the case with DNA studies. So, not everyone who came over here in those invasions were Gentiles, in any case.

The Jews in Spain were a very small group and were persecuted and killed by them.

volgadon Grand Master

volgadon

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The Jews in Spain were a very small group and were persecuted and killed by them.

The Jews in Spain were a substantial group. I recommend reading Baer's The Jews in Christian Spain.

Alan Veteran

Alan

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Brightpath,

I suggest you study the scriptures on this subject before dismissing claims on the basis that Nephi said this or that. It is very obvious, for instance, that the labels of "Nephite" and "Lamanite" soon lost much of their genetic connotations and became political designations. The Nephites referred to any and all who opposed them as Lamanites irrespective of lineage. Similarly, many Jews today assume anyone who isn't a Jew is a Gentile; a very simplistic view at best.

But it appears to me that you seem very reluctant to listen to or consider the abundant evidence that the British Isles and Northern Europe are peopled by Israelites ( and by extension so are the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc), irrespective of the scriptural evidence, historical evidence, and the pronouncements of latter-day prophets, including Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

MormonMason Mentor

MormonMason

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The Jews in Spain were a very small group and were persecuted and killed by them.

They were not an insignificant number. And, they were only persecuted unless they converted--which masses of them did do--becoming crypto-Jews (Christians that in secret would practice Judaism). Many of these converts became members of the Royal court and also became the soldiers for the Spanish army and navy.

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