Can the United States have a king?

[telnetd]

Does Trump's viewing himself as a king in a Truth Social Post have any impact on the 
prophecy of 2 Nephi 10:10-11?

"But behold, this land, said God, shall be a land of thine inheritance, and the Gentiles 
shall be blessed upon the land. And this land shall be a land of liberty unto the 
Gentiles, and there shall be no kings upon the land, who shall raise up unto the 
Gentiles".

Or could Trump really exist as a king according to his standards and 2 Nephi 10 refers 
to some other land?

What about other areas in North and South America that have had their kings and royal 
figures in the past who ruled either directly or indirectly?

[Stargazer]

20 minutes ago, telnetd said:

Does Trump's viewing himself as a king in a Truth Social Post have any impact on the 
prophecy of 2 Nephi 10:10-11?

"But behold, this land, said God, shall be a land of thine inheritance, and the Gentiles 
shall be blessed upon the land. And this land shall be a land of liberty unto the 
Gentiles, and there shall be no kings upon the land, who shall raise up unto the 
Gentiles".

Or could Trump really exist as a king according to his standards and 2 Nephi 10 refers 
to some other land?

What about other areas in North and South America that have had their kings and royal 
figures in the past who ruled either directly or indirectly?

Oh fer heck's sake. The US has or has had several kings already. It's just an honorific, either given or assumed by whomever. Here's a selection

• Elvis Presley - The King of Rock and Roll
• Felix Hernandez - "King Felix," who as a Seattle Mariner pitched the 23rd perfect game in MLB history in 2012.
• Michael Jackson - American singer and pop icon, nicknamed "The King of Pop"
• Benny Goodman - American entertainer, nicknamed "The King of Swing"
• LeBron James - American basketball player, nicknamed "King James"

Don't let it get your knickers in a twist.

[MustardSeed]

3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Oh fer heck's sake. The US has or has had several kings already. It's just an honorific, either given or assumed by whomever. Here's a selection

• Elvis Presley - The King of Rock and Roll
• Felix Hernandez - "King Felix," who as a Seattle Mariner pitched the 23rd perfect game in MLB history in 2012.
• Michael Jackson - American singer and pop icon, nicknamed "The King of Pop"
• Benny Goodman - American entertainer, nicknamed "The King of Swing"
• LeBron James - American basketball player, nicknamed "King James"

Don't let it get your knickers in a twist.

I’m the queen of drama in my house this week for various reasons, so there’s that. 
 

 

[Pyreaux]

I've always viewed the LDS Melchizedek priesthood as the restoration of the ancient king making ritual. Though kings of nothing, or their household, I still think of them as real kings, even more in a real sense than the "real" kings over countries who weren't officially ordained by God. The Americas were all subject to a monarchy at one point, yet who've never set foot upon the land, and soon defeated in revolutionary wars (Americanos, happy Cinco de Mayo and Fourth of July).

Though what sparked the topic, not trying to promote politics, it's just what I observe of Trump, as a person, I think he has a habit of saying non-serious things, this incites hysterics from his detractors. I think I have a decent grasp on reality to trust Trump becoming a king isn't going to happen. A quick anecdote, my sisters all believed they'll need to move out of the country, even with nearly half the country being pro-choice, because they think Trump will pass a law, that will be retroactively enforced and will lock up my sisters because they've promoted a pro-choice thing in the past. I don't care what he or NPR said, that's not going to happen. He's not going to lock up half the country.

Edited February 21, 2025 by Pyreaux

[Tacenda]

8 hours ago, telnetd said:

Does Trump's viewing himself as a king in a Truth Social Post have any impact on the 
prophecy of 2 Nephi 10:10-11?

"But behold, this land, said God, shall be a land of thine inheritance, and the Gentiles 
shall be blessed upon the land. And this land shall be a land of liberty unto the 
Gentiles, and there shall be no kings upon the land, who shall raise up unto the 
Gentiles".

Or could Trump really exist as a king according to his standards and 2 Nephi 10 refers 
to some other land?

What about other areas in North and South America that have had their kings and royal 
figures in the past who ruled either directly or indirectly?

Nothing these days would surprise me. Him calling Zelensky a traitor and the one who started the war between Russia and Ukraine, him saying he wants Greenland, Canada and the Panama Canal. Everything he does is so morally wrong. I have never in my life been this sick to my stomach. 

 

[Tacenda]

8 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Oh fer heck's sake. The US has or has had several kings already. It's just an honorific, either given or assumed by whomever. Here's a selection

• Elvis Presley - The King of Rock and Roll
• Felix Hernandez - "King Felix," who as a Seattle Mariner pitched the 23rd perfect game in MLB history in 2012.
• Michael Jackson - American singer and pop icon, nicknamed "The King of Pop"
• Benny Goodman - American entertainer, nicknamed "The King of Swing"
• LeBron James - American basketball player, nicknamed "King James"

Don't let it get your knickers in a twist.

I'm glad you are where you don't have to worry too much, because this isn't a funny subject, far from it. 

[webbles]

9 hours ago, telnetd said:

Does Trump's viewing himself as a king in a Truth Social Post have any impact on the 
prophecy of 2 Nephi 10:10-11?

"But behold, this land, said God, shall be a land of thine inheritance, and the Gentiles 
shall be blessed upon the land. And this land shall be a land of liberty unto the 
Gentiles, and there shall be no kings upon the land, who shall raise up unto the 
Gentiles".

Or could Trump really exist as a king according to his standards and 2 Nephi 10 refers 
to some other land?

What about other areas in North and South America that have had their kings and royal 
figures in the past who ruled either directly or indirectly?

I consider that prophecy to include the entire Americas.  And as you pointed out, there have been kings in the Americas (such as Emperor Agustín I of Mexico and Dom Pedro I of Brazil).

I think the later verse 14 is useful:

Quote

14 For he that raiseth up a king against me shall perish, for I, the Lord, the king of heaven, will be their king, and I will be a light unto them forever, that hear my words.

Notice that it does seem to imply that kings can be raised up, but that they will perish at some point.  So, if someone was able to get themselves declared King of United States of America, I'd expect the reign would be short-lived; a few generations at most.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Him calling Zelensky a traitor

A dictator, not a traitor….though I think a dictator is a traitor if head of a democracy or republic or anything that isn’t supposed to be a dictatorship 

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-trump-war-zelenskyy-putin-7fe8c0c80b4e93e3bc079c621a44e8bb

Trump’s foreign policy….if it is a policy and not just gut reactions based on his ego….is very concerning to me.

Edited February 21, 2025 by Calm

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I'm glad you are where you don't have to worry too much, because this isn't a funny subject, far from it. 

Stargazer is living in a country who has had experience with all kinds of kings and queens.  I find the criticism that Trump wants to be a king unserious because the powers kings have don’t always amount to much.  I wouldn’t be that concerned if Trump wanted to act like the current king of England in terms of involvement in politics.  The problem would be who was making the decisions though if that were the case.

I think what is meant by Trump wants to be a king is Trump wants to be a dictator.  You don’t need to be a king to be that.

What Trump meant by “long live the king” is unknown imo (could be making a joke, could be expressing a conscious or unconscious desire, could be sarcastic anticipating criticism, etc)….though looks like at least bragging to me given what else he said. 

 I wonder how it would have affected the vote if he had let that out before the election, if more Americans would have been made a bit more wary, maybe enough not to vote for anyone (shifting the “not Biden” vote to more “not Biden, not Trump”).  I suspect most will brush it off as a joke.  I do and I dislike the guy immensely and think his humor is rotten.  Him acting like he’s done something (“congestion pricing is dead”) when nothing has been accomplished yet is much more concerning to me as it makes me wonder about follow through if he files something under ‘taken care of’ in his brain before it actually is.

And so much for states’ rights.

Btw, Dictatorships can also be benevolent (making decisions for the good of all the people and not just telling oneself that is what one is doing or favoring certain groups).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictatorship

Edited February 21, 2025 by Calm

[Tacenda]

26 minutes ago, Calm said:

A dictator, not a traitor….though I think a dictator is a traitor if head of a democracy or republic or anything that isn’t supposed to be a dictatorship 

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-russia-trump-war-zelenskyy-putin-7fe8c0c80b4e93e3bc079c621a44e8bb

Trump’s foreign policy….if it is a policy and not just gut reactions based on his ego….is very concerning to me.

Thanks, that's what I mean't. I appreciate the correction. 

[Calm]

49 minutes ago, webbles said:

Notice that it does seem to imply that kings can be raised up, but that they will perish at some point.  So, if someone was able to get themselves declared King of United States of America, I'd expect the reign would be short-lived; a few generations at most.

Seems like it says if it’s a righteous king, it’s not a problem.

[Calm]

20 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Thanks, that's what I mean't. I appreciate the correction. 

I figured, they sound alike (the last two syllables).  I just need distraction tonight.   

Oops, just realized we are in Social Hall.  My bad.  Politics needs to stay out of here as debate.  

Edited February 21, 2025 by Calm

[Dario_M]

In the Netherlands we still have a king. But nobody is really happy with it. He has a lot of money but he doesn't need to pay taxes. While the rest of the Netherlands do need to pay. So....i'm sure you would understand that many people hate his guts. 

Edited February 21, 2025 by Dario_M

[Stargazer]

12 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I'm glad you are where you don't have to worry too much, because this isn't a funny subject, far from it. 

Well, we do have a king over here. In fact, as a new British citizen I took oath as follows:

"I, Stargazer, swear by Almighty God that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty King Charles III, his Heirs and Successors, according to law."

Charles isn't a true king, in the traditional sense of the word, however. He's not allowed to say anything unless it conforms to the will of the political party in power at the moment. If he does express a contrary opinion, even if only slightly off-kilter, the news media and the political party in power go ballistic. He also knows that the fate of the monarchy turns on him and his family remaining very neutral. So he (and they) say nothing that isn't pre-approved by the true power in the realm. Unlike in the United States, where the chief executive is not only allowed, but encouraged, to take a stand on issues that he (and one of these days, she) feels strongly about.

The reason why it isn't a funny subject over there (and I am a dual citizen, so "over there" still affects me) is because the current not-king is a Trollmaster. And predictably the so-called news media over there go ballistic and hyperbolic over every troll the Trollmaster trolls. And the fact of the matter is, even if the Trollmaster isn't trolling, but simply stating a plain fact, the reaction is predictably ballistic and hyperbolic. Every. Darned. Time. If he were to express a preference for chocolate cake over vanilla, you better believe it would trigger a hissy fit in certain quarters. This encourages the Trollmaster to troll even more, and since he knows that he can't say anything without causing a firestorm, he has stopped caring about the inevitable reactions (if he ever did care). I know something about trolling. My stepmom loved to be called "Mom" or "Mother." She was, in fact, a very good and loving Mom. But she absolutely hated the nickname "Maw." If ever you called her that, her automatic comeback was "Don't call me 'Maw'!" For that reason, my brother and I would sometimes call her that (when we were adults and could get away with it). And she'd react very predictably. The last time I ever called her "Maw" and she responded in the standard fashion, I said, "You know that we only call you 'Maw' in order to hear you say 'Don't call me "Maw," right?" She said with a big smile, "Yes, but don't call me 'Maw'!" I still laugh myself silly thinking about that conversation. I loved my stepmom! She was the greatest!

Fact is, the Trollmaster can refer to himself as a king as much as he likes, but it's meaningless and changes nothing. But if your sole source of news is the standard broadcast or cable outlets then all you will hear is meltdowns, hair-tearing, and self-righteous indignation. About every little thing. I suggest branching out to outlets that don't follow the party line in every degree. If all you ever watch or listen to is ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, or CNN you should be aware that you are listening to a monolith of opinion, all slanted down one line and one line only.

This is going somewhat political, though I hope to come across in a somewhat neutral way. I apologize for any indignation I am causing by posting this, but my sole purpose in splatting all this out there is to encourage everyone to not listen to only one side, and use critical thinking skills to evaluate whether one side or the other (or both) are being reasonable. 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

Well, we do have a king over here. In fact, as a new British citizen I took oath as follows:

"I, Stargazer, swear by Almighty God that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to His Majesty King Charles III, his Heirs and Successors, according to law."

Charles isn't a true king, in the traditional sense of the word, however. He's not allowed to say anything unless it conforms to the will of the political party in power at the moment. If he does express a contrary opinion, even if only slightly off-kilter, the news media and the political party in power go ballistic. He also knows that the fate of the monarchy turns on him and his family remaining very neutral. So he (and they) say nothing that isn't pre-approved by the true power in the realm. Unlike in the United States, where the chief executive is not only allowed, but encouraged, to take a stand on issues that he (and one of these days, she) feels strongly about.

The reason why it isn't a funny subject over there (and I am a dual citizen, so "over there" still affects me) is because the current not-king is a Trollmaster. And predictably the so-called news media over there go ballistic and hyperbolic over every troll the Trollmaster trolls. And the fact of the matter is, even if the Trollmaster isn't trolling, but simply stating a plain fact, the reaction is predictably ballistic and hyperbolic. Every. Darned. Time. If he were to express a preference for chocolate cake over vanilla, you better believe it would trigger a hissy fit in certain quarters. This encourages the Trollmaster to troll even more, and since he knows that he can't say anything without causing a firestorm, he has stopped caring about the inevitable reactions (if he ever did care). I know something about trolling. My stepmom loved to be called "Mom" or "Mother." She was, in fact, a very good and loving Mom. But she absolutely hated the nickname "Maw." If ever you called her that, her automatic comeback was "Don't call me 'Maw'!" For that reason, my brother and I would sometimes call her that (when we were adults and could get away with it). And she'd react very predictably. The last time I ever called her "Maw" and she responded in the standard fashion, I said, "You know that we only call you 'Maw' in order to hear you say 'Don't call me "Maw," right?" She said with a big smile, "Yes, but don't call me 'Maw'!" I still laugh myself silly thinking about that conversation. I loved my stepmom! She was the greatest!

Fact is, the Trollmaster can refer to himself as a king as much as he likes, but it's meaningless and changes nothing. But if your sole source of news is the standard broadcast or cable outlets then all you will hear is meltdowns, hair-tearing, and self-righteous indignation. About every little thing. I suggest branching out to outlets that don't follow the party line in every degree. If all you ever watch or listen to is ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, or CNN you should be aware that you are listening to a monolith of opinion, all slanted down one line and one line only.

This is going somewhat political, though I hope to come across in a somewhat neutral way. I apologize for any indignation I am causing by posting this, but my sole purpose in splatting all this out there is to encourage everyone to not listen to only one side, and use critical thinking skills to evaluate whether one side or the other (or both) are being reasonable. 

Sorry I reacted the way I did. Somewhat feeling vulnerable, and would love a dual citizenship like you! Everything you presented is right. I do get my news from a lot of sources. I sure appreciate the ability to get feedback from my friends on this space. I'd go completely nuts if I didn't have this board. 

[Robert F. Smith]

16 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Nothing these days would surprise me. Him calling Zelensky a traitor and the one who started the war between Russia and Ukraine, him saying he wants Greenland, Canada and the Panama Canal. Everything he does is so morally wrong. I have never in my life been this sick to my stomach. 

You miss the point, Tacenda. Those are all negotiating tactics.  Trump doesn't believe any of that.  He is fully transactional, as businessmen usually are.  In the real world, nice guys finish last, and Niccolo Machiavelli rules.