How to reconcile mixed messages from The Church

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Joshua said:

Do you know what it is about this board that I cherish? It is a wonderful indicator of how much Mormonism has changed over the past quarter of a century, which is the time period in which I had the opportunity to engage with a significant number of Mormons. If this forum had been there twenty-five years ago, dozens of Mormon mothers would have posted in this thread, the most of which would have been about how they would never, under any circumstances, permit their young daughters to take a shower with a biological male. Additionally, they would have asserted their right to be able to enter a locker room without being required to undress in front of a biological male. The announcement would have been defended to the world by them, and they would have stated that marriage is a divinely designed institution that takes place between a man and a woman. If they had been asked, they would have stated that the everlasting plan of God requires marriage to take place between a man and a woman. 

 

However, if you take the time to carefully observe how this thread is developing, it would appear that this is no longer the case. As far as I can recall, not a single Mormon woman has ever spoken up on this thread regarding the possibility of transgender women sharing the same locker room with women isn't a good idea. To say the least, this blows my mind! It would appear that in the contemporary society of today, even Mormon women are willing to prioritize the feelings and comfort of a biological male over the feelings of a female. There's no denying the patriarchy apparently. 

 

A few pages back a guy posted a condemnation of the LGB alliance which was founded by women, and not a single woman condemned his conduct, even after he said, "the sooner the organization dies the better." And again this is amazing!

 

I upload a video of a lady who testifies in front of a government body, stating how she was silenced for her dissident opinion when she brought up how she was uncomfortable with having to share a locker room with a male who was 6 feet 4 inches tall. Despite the fact that this young lady was a victim of sexual assault, not a single Mormon woman on this board spoke out for her. 

 

Despite the fact that I share a picture of a man who is fifty years old and who undresses with girls who are thirteen years old after competing with them in a swimming competition, not a single Mormon lady has voiced her opinion that this behavior is unacceptable. This fascinates me! 

 

There is not a single Mormon woman on the board that stands up for Riley Gaines when a male poster on the board insults her, and I post a picture of her together with five other women who are standing up for what they believe in and still, not one Mormon woman on the board tells the male poster that doesn't share her opinion, that she has a right to voice her opinion. A different poster than i, a male poster creates a post in which he defends Riley and asks for biological women to be allowed the opportunity to compete against other biological women only. However, not a single Mormon woman up votes his post or agrees with him. This reveals a great deal about the current state of the Mormon church and the extent to which it has changed. 

 

On page six a male poster writes " Believe Riley Gaines." Not one Mormon women leaves a thumbs up or supports his post. Two post later another man writes a post that's negative towards Riley Gaines, a woman who had to share a locker room with a biological male, and not one woman condemns the comments of this poster. That is absolutely fascinating!

 

The most hilarious part of the discussion is about to be revealed! On page 8, a man writes that he was raised in a variety of cultures that do not represent the puritanical concern that the United States of America has with nudity. He argues that it is not uncommon to see naked women on billboards, on yogurt, on toilet paper, and on public transportation throughout Europe. In the following paragraph, he says that families are stripped down by their parents, including children as young as toddlers and teenagers. And somehow the Mormon women on this thread don't see this as problematic? Aren't Mormons still required to stay modest in front of other people? If my memory serves me correctly, the Mormon religion is known for its strong emphasis on modesty. However, for some reason, not a single Mormon voiced their disapproval of the conduct of families taking showers together, naked in frt of other people. This piques my interest for sure! This is fascinating!

 

From a personal standpoint, I believe that Mormonism ought to be able to continue in the same manner that it was in the nineties. It should be possible for Mormons to spread the word of the family proclamation to the rest of the world without encountering opposition from the extremists who are a part of the LGBT community. 

 

Taking into consideration the current state of affairs within the Mormon church, I am going to offer a prediction that will almost certainly be correct! Over the next twenty years, the Mormon church will be forced in this location. Sometime around the year 2044, the patriarchal Mormon brethren will nominate a transgender woman to the relief society and the presidency of the young women's organization. At the same time, Mormon women all over the world will celebrate for the brethren for providing an inclusive environment. By using this board as a barometer of where the church is headed, it is possible that in the future, if a biological male with a penis that is still attached ends up on the presidency of a woman's organization within the church, it is expected that Mormon women will view this as diversity and not the patriarchy that would appoint a man to a position that has traditionally been filled by a woman. 

 

Is there anyone who will answer these two questions in an honest manner? If the Mormon church is eventually diverse enough, how will people know when it has reached that point? In the event that transgender women are given teaching positions within the young women's organization, does this mean that the Mormon church will continue to be the Mormon church? I think if Trans women are allowed to teach young women in let's say, Mia Maids, I think that's a clear indicator that the Mormon church isn't the Mormon church anymore. 

You’re fascinated that some people aren’t duped by obvious and cynical propaganda? That is more of a “you” thing.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Joshua said:

And I can't take you serious because it seems to me that you agree with biological men showering and competing with young women.  The Nehor is trashing Riley Gaines, a woman who feels strongly that men don't belong in women's locker rooms. Why haven't you or any other woman on the board shown Riley any support? 

Yep, the horrors of the chess locker rooms haunt us all to this very day.

[The Nehor]

17 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

Excellent post! I predict the LGBTQ issue is soon going to divide the restored church of Christ into two opposing camps, in the same manner that the Nephite church of Christ was torn apart just prior to the day when the cataclysmic judgements of God we’re poured out upon the wicked and apostate portion of the Nephites. All the devil needs is one rancorous wedge issue to cunningly employ for him to be able to rip apart the church from within. For many years, faithful members thought the greatest danger the church would face would come from enemies without the church, scarcely imagining that the biggest threat to the church would come from within.

But no one should be surprised with what’s happening because, after all, we’ve been taught for many years that the parable of the wheat and the tares testifies of a division between the good and evil factions within the active ranks of the church. The following verses from 3rd Nephi describe how the Nephite church of Christ devolved into wickedness and apostasy 26 years before Christ’s visitation to those remaining few righteous members of the Nephite church of Christ who weren’t deceived by the devil. The war in heaven continues on earth.

16 And thus Satan did lead away the hearts of the people to do all manner of iniquity; therefore they had enjoyed peace but a few years.

17 And thus, in the commencement of the thirtieth year—the people having been delivered up for the space of a long time to be carried about by the temptations of the devil whithersoever he desired to carry them, and to do whatsoever iniquity he desired they should—and thus in the commencement of this, the thirtieth year, they were in a state of awful wickedness.

18 Now they did not sin ignorantly, for they knew the will of God concerning them, for it had been taught unto them; therefore they did willfully rebel against God. (3 Nephi 6)

The great sin of the last days that will sever the church is not punching down enough on a marginalized community. It is like we didn’t even read the parts of the New Testament where Jesus joined hands with the Pharisees to punch down on the oppressed and echoed their condemnations of the outcasts.

[JAHS]

On 1/24/2024 at 5:08 PM, Maestrophil said:

I watched this video and resonated with the confusion of The Church approving the baptism of a trans woman as a woman of record etc. Those actions conflict in my mind with messages of eternal gender and mariage from the pulpit.  
 

Are LGBTQ+ folks the current version of what blacks and the priesthood were pre- 1978? Is the proclamation wrong?  Not sure how to feel

 

 

There have also been reports of a few wards where the Bishop is allowing gay married couples to have callings and take the sacrament. These are isolated cases and not sanctioned by the higher authorities.  However ,this comes from one of those John Dehlin podcasts, so not sure how reliable it is.  A NEW NORM? MARRIED GAY MORMONS GET CALLINGS & THE SACRAMENT

[Raingirl]

2 hours ago, Joshua said:

Do you know what it is about this board that I cherish? It is a wonderful indicator of how much Mormonism has changed over the past quarter of a century, which is the time period in which I had the opportunity to engage with a significant number of Mormons. If this forum had been there twenty-five years ago, dozens of Mormon mothers would have posted in this thread, the most of which would have been about how they would never, under any circumstances, permit their young daughters to take a shower with a biological male. Additionally, they would have asserted their right to be able to enter a locker room without being required to undress in front of a biological male. The announcement would have been defended to the world by them, and they would have stated that marriage is a divinely designed institution that takes place between a man and a woman. If they had been asked, they would have stated that the everlasting plan of God requires marriage to take place between a man and a woman. 

 

However, if you take the time to carefully observe how this thread is developing, it would appear that this is no longer the case. As far as I can recall, not a single Mormon woman has ever spoken up on this thread regarding the possibility of transgender women sharing the same locker room with women isn't a good idea. To say the least, this blows my mind! It would appear that in the contemporary society of today, even Mormon women are willing to prioritize the feelings and comfort of a biological male over the feelings of a female. There's no denying the patriarchy apparently. 

 

A few pages back a guy posted a condemnation of the LGB alliance which was founded by women, and not a single woman condemned his conduct, even after he said, "the sooner the organization dies the better." And again this is amazing!

 

I upload a video of a lady who testifies in front of a government body, stating how she was silenced for her dissident opinion when she brought up how she was uncomfortable with having to share a locker room with a male who was 6 feet 4 inches tall. Despite the fact that this young lady was a victim of sexual assault, not a single Mormon woman on this board spoke out for her. 

 

Despite the fact that I share a picture of a man who is fifty years old and who undresses with girls who are thirteen years old after competing with them in a swimming competition, not a single Mormon lady has voiced her opinion that this behavior is unacceptable. This fascinates me! 

 

There is not a single Mormon woman on the board that stands up for Riley Gaines when a male poster on the board insults her, and I post a picture of her together with five other women who are standing up for what they believe in and still, not one Mormon woman on the board tells the male poster that doesn't share her opinion, that she has a right to voice her opinion. A different poster than i, a male poster creates a post in which he defends Riley and asks for biological women to be allowed the opportunity to compete against other biological women only. However, not a single Mormon woman up votes his post or agrees with him. This reveals a great deal about the current state of the Mormon church and the extent to which it has changed. 

 

On page six a male poster writes " Believe Riley Gaines." Not one Mormon women leaves a thumbs up or supports his post. Two post later another man writes a post that's negative towards Riley Gaines, a woman who had to share a locker room with a biological male, and not one woman condemns the comments of this poster. That is absolutely fascinating!

 

The most hilarious part of the discussion is about to be revealed! On page 8, a man writes that he was raised in a variety of cultures that do not represent the puritanical concern that the United States of America has with nudity. He argues that it is not uncommon to see naked women on billboards, on yogurt, on toilet paper, and on public transportation throughout Europe. In the following paragraph, he says that families are stripped down by their parents, including children as young as toddlers and teenagers. And somehow the Mormon women on this thread don't see this as problematic? Aren't Mormons still required to stay modest in front of other people? If my memory serves me correctly, the Mormon religion is known for its strong emphasis on modesty. However, for some reason, not a single Mormon voiced their disapproval of the conduct of families taking showers together, naked in frt of other people. This piques my interest for sure! This is fascinating!

 

From a personal standpoint, I believe that Mormonism ought to be able to continue in the same manner that it was in the nineties. It should be possible for Mormons to spread the word of the family proclamation to the rest of the world without encountering opposition from the extremists who are a part of the LGBT community. 

 

Taking into consideration the current state of affairs within the Mormon church, I am going to offer a prediction that will almost certainly be correct! Over the next twenty years, the Mormon church will be forced in this location. Sometime around the year 2044, the patriarchal Mormon brethren will nominate a transgender woman to the relief society and the presidency of the young women's organization. At the same time, Mormon women all over the world will celebrate for the brethren for providing an inclusive environment. By using this board as a barometer of where the church is headed, it is possible that in the future, if a biological male with a penis that is still attached ends up on the presidency of a woman's organization within the church, it is expected that Mormon women will view this as diversity and not the patriarchy that would appoint a man to a position that has traditionally been filled by a woman. 

 

Is there anyone who will answer these two questions in an honest manner? If the Mormon church is eventually diverse enough, how will people know when it has reached that point? In the event that transgender women are given teaching positions within the young women's organization, does this mean that the Mormon church will continue to be the Mormon church? I think if Trans women are allowed to teach young women in let's say, Mia Maids, I think that's a clear indicator that the Mormon church isn't the Mormon church anymore. 

You speaking on behalf of Mormon mothers and/or women is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever seen. You’re neither a woman, nor a mother. You haven’t a clue. You really need to stop with the mansplaining. 

[Tacenda]

35 minutes ago, Joshua said:

Someone needs to because apparently there's not one Mormon woman on this thread willing to speak up for the women I have posted about.

Does this lady make any sense to you? Or is she completely off her rocker? Because if she makes sense,  then your buddy The Nehor, who keeps demeaning the women I post about is completely wrong in the way he views the Trans movement. 

 

 

 

How about this story

Does this girls story matter or is she just collateral damage? I see the women on this thread are OK with telling me that I'm a big meany, but not one time have the Mormon women on this thread contributed anything that could be considered taking the side of women like the two in this post.

How many young women need to chop their breast off, then a few years later find out it was a horrible mistake, before women stand up in numbers and tell the extreme Trans movement to leave our young women alone!!

 

 

 

 

This is very very sad, the girl who's parents were practically given no option other than you give her daughter the path to being male thinking if they didn't she might commit suicide. I do think these surgeries shouldn't occur till past 18 years of age, just as we have laws for driving at sixteen or no drinking until 19. I even wonder if surgery shouldn't be done later, because human minds aren't fully matured till later. But it's a difficult subject and I'm left to not have any answers. Because of the worry of suicide too. 

 

[MustardSeed]

3 hours ago, Joshua said:

Why haven't you or any other woman on the board shown Riley any support? 

I’ll speak on it but not to you.  You’re imbalanced in your presentation and it won’t be a good faith conversation. 

[The Nehor]

42 minutes ago, Joshua said:

Someone needs to because apparently there's not one Mormon woman on this thread willing to speak up for the women I have posted about.

Does this lady make any sense to you? Or is she completely off her rocker? Because if she makes sense,  then your buddy The Nehor, who keeps demeaning the women I post about is completely wrong in the way he views the Trans movement. 

 

 

 

How about this story

Does this girls story matter or is she just collateral damage? I see the women on this thread are OK with telling me that I'm a big meany, but not one time have the Mormon women on this thread contributed anything that could be considered taking the side of women like the two in this post.

How many young women need to chop their breast off, then a few years later find out it was a horrible mistake, before women stand up in numbers and tell the extreme Trans movement to leave our young women alone!!

 

 

 

 

The first video of Grossman, a psychiatrist known for touting the advantages of “reparative therapy for homosexuals”. Yeah, those would be the conversion camps. Since touting that line has gone out of favor she has moved on to newer pseudoscientific fads as shown in that video.

As to Chloe Cole her story, if true, is pretty bad. If the timeline is accurate the doctors involved ignored a lot of guidelines. Medical intervention on the scale she received as a minor should only have been given in an extreme situation and with the full informed consent of the patient and parents. Her parents haven’t spoken out at all and are basically invisible. No one else is corroborating her story. Her doctors can’t speak out to set the record straight if she is mistaken or lying due to confidentiality laws. Also at the age of 18 she portrays it as her independently deciding to start traveling and speaking out which doesn’t seem likely. Someone was funding her. I am not an expert but I have heard from a fair number of transgender people (some of whom are endocrinologists) and they suspect that anyone who received the dose of testosterone she reported for as long as she said should have had their voice impacted much more than hers is. It is possible that this is just an individual variation but it is odd. A lot of things seem very off.

Then there is Chloe’s lawsuit filing. I have read it. It is filled with inaccuracies and bad gender science and studies that don’t say what the lawsuit says they say and reports of closure of gender treatment practices that are factually inaccurate. It is filled with accusations against a large number of those treating her about being browbeaten and ramrodded into things by zealots who just rushed everything. A lot of zealots who all did this. This strains credulity. It is written like it was intended to be a resource of quotes for anti-transgender activists.

The defendant’s response is that there is no merit to any of it and asks for the prosecution to pay their attorney’s fees which I have been told in that jurisdiction just ticks off a judge unless the lawsuit really is frivolous. Again, something is very off. I suspect Chloe Cole is being used. The anti-transgender movement has proven that it is not above blatantly lying to get an emotional and horrific story out. If the story is discredited later they just move on to a new one. See this thread for reference.

Sorry to bring all these details in to mess up your emotional appeals.

[The Nehor]

45 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

This is very very sad, the girl who's parents were practically given no option other than you give her daughter the path to being male thinking if they didn't she might commit suicide. I do think these surgeries shouldn't occur till past 18 years of age, just as we have laws for driving at sixteen or no drinking until 19. I even wonder if surgery shouldn't be done later, because human minds aren't fully matured till later. But it's a difficult subject and I'm left to not have any answers. Because of the worry of suicide too. 

Be careful. The move to ban these surgeries can and will be used against cis-gendered women who need them for reasons that are not related to gender dysphoria. One of the favorite images anti-transgender activists use to show the horrors of gender transition shows the chest after a double masectomy and calling it mutilation. The only problem is someone hunted down the source of the image and it was from a cis-gender woman that survived breast cancer.

Be very cynical about their propaganda. They are very cynical when they create it.

[bluebell]

19 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I’ll speak on it but not to you.  You’re imbalanced in your presentation and it won’t be a good faith conversation. 

I'll just ditto what MS said because I agree with it completely.   

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, Joshua said:

I don't really care what you think about me. There's something really strange going on in this thread and I can't quite put my finger on it. I appreciate Tacenda's most recent post because in my opinion it's the first time a woman has had the courage to speak up. We are 9 pages into this thread and just about every woman participating is siding with the guy that is putting Riley Gaines down. Two women start an organization called the LGB alliance and he says it would be better if the organization dies!! Not one woman confronts him about his derogatory statements toward women. He's asking for biological men to be able to shower with young women and I'm asking for women to able to have their own spaces and somehow I'm the bad guy. This is insane! 

 

if you're interested in being an ally for the LGB community this video is a very important video to watch. 

 

NO! You don’t get to decide what constitutes being on our side. Helen Joyce is not an ally. It shocks me that anyone is stupid enough to believe this paternalistic garbage where you are ‘helping’ people by doing what they don’t want done to them or done to their actual allies.

[The Nehor]

18 minutes ago, Joshua said:

No worries, everyone reading this thread with a shred of common sense understands you have an agenda that doesn't consider how the most vulnerable women in our society are treated. You’re most recent post proves that no matter what women I post about, if she doesn't agree with your radical agenda, you will try to make her out to be some kind of nut! Considering your remarks about the last two women I posted about, and how you took the time to demean their character, that makes five women now that you have talked about negatively on this thread.

 

you want to talk negatively about this woman also, make it six women you gave attacked on this thread?

 

 

 

Discrediting people isn’t attacking them. Being a woman does not make your ideas immune to criticism. If you would post transphobic videos put out by men I would discredit them too. You chose the sample. That you thought being gender selective would make you immune to criticism is on you.

Edited January 31, 2024 by The Nehor

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

Be careful. The move to ban these surgeries can and will be used against cis-gendered women who need them for reasons that are not related to gender dysphoria. One of the favorite images anti-transgender activists use to show the horrors of gender transition shows the chest after a double mastectomy and calling it mutilation. The only problem is someone hunted down the source of the image and it was from a cis-gender woman that survived breast cancer.

Be very cynical about their propaganda. They are very cynical when they create it.

Very true. 

We should probably all be cynical in regards to what many activists on both sides of the isle use to make their arguments.  They are two sides of the same coin.  In a world where the most important thing is for the world to agree with you and to figuratively (and sometimes actually) destroy all who don't, there are not many lines that people won't cross to win converts. 

No one is less trustworthy than a zealot, regardless of the cause or ideology.  

Joshua's biggest downfall is that he's wholeheartedly swallowing whatever the side he agrees with is offering to him.  Understanding nuance and sifting through information--and being willing to condemn bad actors regardless of the side they are on--can really take the shine off of a good build up of righteous rage and indignation. 

And there's no fun in that.

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Joshua said:

this forum had been there twenty-five years ago, dozens of Mormon mothers would have posted in this thread,

And yet another made up out of no evidence whatsoever statement and not matching the reality at all, telling us what we were like rather than being respectful enough to ask and letting us tell our own story. For one thing there have never been dozens of women on this board, let alone all posting at once.  

You do remind me of a few women who used your style of engagement back then on this board and its predecessor though.  They were usually antimormons attacking the Church as a brainwashed cult, sometimes spicing it up with unsupported claims of rampant sexual abuse happening behind closed doors, putting up moral panic stories of extreme cases as if they were typical and treating recovered memories of neighborhood rings engaging in bizarre abuses or of baby sacrifices and child rape in temples, etc  as proof of the evil that is the Church or trying to portray members and the Church as trying to pass as Christian using similar tactics of outrage and condescension and ridicule rather than actually engaging in discussion and debate.

Most of the women here, especially those who have been posting more than a decade or two, I know well enough to know they are compassionate, but wise and they want transgender women to be protected and safe in ways that do not sacrifice the safety (physical, emotional, and mental safety)of biological women, which at this point to most of us looks like pointing nontranstioned males to single user or family bathrooms where available and pushing for more of them where they are not; iow no penises in the locker/bathroom, but if you recognized that what would you have to rant about?

You still are misunderstanding almost every comment people are saying.  Just because your arguments are worthless doesn’t mean there aren’t decent arguments out there to support exclusion of nontranstitioned biological males from using women’s spaces, ones that don’t need to turn transgender women into the Big Bad Wolf and to insist that those women who protest opening up of lockers, shelters, etc to anyone claiming to be female must be aggressive, nasty Chicken Littles or they are throwing the locker room doors wide open and inviting the hordes of perverts pounding at the doors inside to rape and pillage.  Instead the reasonable women on this board generally recognize the transgender population is vulnerable and we need better solutions than the knee jerk ones often getting put out there by some of those labeled conservatives or liberals and we recognize how much better it would be and easier to accomplish something if others stopped trying to turn victims into villains out to destroy the family or otherwise ignore real world problems for whatever reason rather than doing something for a vulnerable minority population.  Intelligent reasonable, compassionate people recognize we need solutions that protect all who are vulnerable, not privileging one over another, which means includes protecting biological women. 

Sad to say you are nothing new. 23 years ago I was banning posters like you after a few warnings if they didn’t tone down their hysteria and stop using outrage porn or dumping on others when they refused to play their mindless games.  Takes much more work to construct and support an intelligent argument and sadly the outrage addicts mostly preferred to move on to dump garbage in places that preferred that type of ‘dialogue’ rather than make an effort to listen and construct a decent argument that actually addresses other’ points. 
 

“However, if you take the time to carefully observe how this thread is developing, it would appear that this is no longer the case. As far as I can recall, not a single Mormon woman has ever spoken up on this thread regarding the possibility of transgender women sharing the same locker room with women isn't a good idea”…

At this point it is beginning to look more like intentional lying than cluelessness, but there is such a thing as invincible ignorance so I will give Joshua the benefit of the doubt he is not intentionally lying about female posters. 

Edited January 31, 2024 by Calm

[bluebell]

5 minutes ago, Joshua said:

Of course you do. Gotta back the guy who keeps talking negatively about women and wants to allow biological males to shower with young girls. Two cheers for The Nehor!

Where did MS say anything about Nehor?  You seem kind of fixated on him.

The fact that so many women, who have openly supported the necessity of having safe spaces for women and girls in the transwomen debate, find your arguments on here to be abhorrent should give you pause.  You are actively harming your cause and alienating people who would otherwise be allies.  

[The Nehor]

7 minutes ago, Joshua said:

Of course you do. Gotta back the guy who keeps talking negatively about women and wants to allow biological males to shower with young girls. Two cheers for The Nehor!

I think people should shower alone or with people they actively choose to shower with. You’re the one obsessed with the purity of communal showers.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Raingirl said:

You speaking on behalf of Mormon mothers and/or women is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever seen. You’re neither a woman, nor a mother. You haven’t a clue. You really need to stop with the mansplaining. 

Nor is he listening to/taking the time to read with comprehension and registering what women on the board are actually saying and instead making things up so he can play victim or hero or something. 

Edited January 31, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

50 minutes ago, Joshua said:

There's something really strange going on in this thread and I can't quite put my finger on it

Because it’s you, you are misreading comments. Just because many of us think your arguments are inaccurate and misleading and extreme doesn’t mean the so women posting here are against protections for biological women in sports and safe spaces. 
 

Disagreeing with you is not agreeing that female locker rooms and competitions should be thrown open to anyone claiming to be a woman. 

[Raingirl]

5 hours ago, Joshua said:

Someone needs to because apparently there's not one Mormon woman on this thread willing to speak up for the women I have posted about.

Does this lady make any sense to you? Or is she completely off her rocker? Because if she makes sense,  then your buddy The Nehor, who keeps demeaning the women I post about is completely wrong in the way he views the Trans movement. 

 

 

 

How about this story

Does this girls story matter or is she just collateral damage? I see the women on this thread are OK with telling me that I'm a big meany, but not one time have the Mormon women on this thread contributed anything that could be considered taking the side of women like the two in this post.

How many young women need to chop their breast off, then a few years later find out it was a horrible mistake, before women stand up in numbers and tell the extreme Trans movement to leave our young women alone!!

 

 

 

 

Nehor never demeans women. I can’t say the same for you,however. 
 
Why are you so afraid of transgender women?  Is it some sort of self-loathing that you’re in denial about? Your obsession is not normal. Are you similarly scared of transgender men? You aren’t obsessed with them, as you are the women. 
 I know several transgender women. Fear has never been an emotion I’ve felt around them. 

Edited January 31, 2024 by Raingirl

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, Joshua said:

I know what the women are not saying! They are not saying "STAY THE HELL OUT OF OUR LOCKER ROOMS BIOLOGICAL MEN!" 25 Years ago Mormon women would have shouted that all at once.

Oh grow up. Unless we say things like you dictate we are in the wrong. 
 

If you crave drama and outrage, go elsewhere. I find it boring.  A good reasoned argument, based on solid research…now that is exciting. 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Be careful. The move to ban these surgeries can and will be used against cis-gendered women who need them for reasons that are not related to gender dysphoria. One of the favorite images anti-transgender activists use to show the horrors of gender transition shows the chest after a double masectomy and calling it mutilation. The only problem is someone hunted down the source of the image and it was from a cis-gender woman that survived breast cancer.

Be very cynical about their propaganda. They are very cynical when they create it.

When I was in the hospital, there was a young woman there for a radical mastectomy because her grandmother, mother and other women in her family died from breast cancer and now her older sister had just been confirmed with pretty far along even though she had been regularly checking. The young woman decided on preventative.  I think she was early twenties rather than late teens, but it was 30 years ago.

Edited January 31, 2024 by Calm

[Raingirl]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

Oh grow up. Unless we say things like you dictate we are in the wrong. 
 

If you crave drama and outrage, go elsewhere. I find it boring.  A good reasoned argument, based on solid research…now that is exciting. 

I’m out of rep points for the day, so can I give you a standing ovation? 👏 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Joshua said:

I don't really care what you think about me. There's something really strange going on in this thread and I can't quite put my finger on it. I appreciate Tacenda's most recent post because in my opinion it's the first time a woman has had the courage to speak up. We are 9 pages into this thread and just about every woman participating is siding with the guy that is putting Riley Gaines down. Two women start an organization called the LGB alliance and he says it would be better if the organization dies!! Not one woman confronts him about his derogatory statements toward women. He's asking for biological men to be able to shower with young women and I'm asking for women to able to have their own spaces and somehow I'm the bad guy. This is insane! 

 

if you're interested in being an ally for the LGB community this video is a very important video to watch. 

 

Your reconstructions of Nehor’s position and others’ responses to him are nonsense. It really is looking intentional now as there is no hesitation of ‘hmmm….maybe I am reading things wrong given the number of times I have been told I am misinterpreting comments and positions’, though why you would intentionally get it wrong I have no clue (I don’t pretend to know people’s inner thoughts and motivations based off a few posts).  Your apparent certainty that you know better what women mean than they do themselves in this thread is amazing, but not in a good way. 

Edited January 31, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

I’m out of rep points for the day, so can I give you a standing ovation? 👏 

I will graciously accept.  

[Tacenda]

Changed mind.

Edited January 31, 2024 by Tacenda