Women leaders ordered off the stand

[Mark Beesley]

How do the controversies surrounding women participation in the Church, and the like, reconcile with the scriptural mandates that all we do for the Lord should be done without seeking the recognition of the world? Does not having an eye singled to the glory of God dispel any personal need for recognition?

[Calm]

6 hours ago, Buckeye said:

If you do include all women and men leaders pretty soon half the ward is on the stand. Might as well form a choir at that point  

I think they should cycle through the auxiliaries so faces and names of all leaders are easier to learn, so you can see who is in charge of your kids, etc.

And that way it’s not a particular hardship for anyone.

[Mark Beesley]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think they should cycle through the auxiliaries so faces and names of all leaders are easier to learn, so you can see who is in charge of your kids, 

There is an app for that.😇

[Rain]

3 minutes ago, Mark Beesley said:

How do the controversies surrounding women participation in the Church, and the like, reconcile with the scriptural mandates that all we do for the Lord should be done without seeking the recognition of the world? Does not having an eye singled to the glory of God dispel any personal need for recognition?

This is why I didn't like what the RSP in this article said - giving recognition to the leaders.  I, however, like the idea of RSPs being on the stand as a matter of service to the women they are over.

It goes both ways - are the men up there for recognition or as service to the ward? If they can be up there to serve the ward and not as self serving recognition then women can be up there for reason that are not self serving.

[Calm]

55 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I didn't like sitting up at the front facing the sisters in Relief Society much when in the presidency. But think it's important only if you span the audience and somehow see if someone is struggling or sad or something. So having the women on the stand as well as the men might be a good thing, then there's more eyes and understandings on those in the pews.

Good point.

[Diamondhands69]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

And even worse, you see EVERYTHING 😉

Yep… like 90% of the ward on their phones

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, Mark Beesley said:

There is an app for that.😇

Pictures are very different than reality for many who have a hard time with faces (like myself) and not all leaders put their pictures in the app.

[Rain]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think they should cycle through the auxiliaries so faces and names of all leaders are easier to learn, so you can see who is in charge of your kids, etc.

And that way it’s not a particular hardship for anyone.

This would be good.  I remember moving into our last ward and a month or so later realized I was taking my son to boys camp and didn't have a clue who the leaders were.  My husband did, but not everyone is married so single moms (and dads) are sometimes at a real disadvantage in that area.

[Rain]

5 minutes ago, Mark Beesley said:

There is an app for that.😇

Only if they add their pictures. In the wards I have been in 95% don't. 

[Calm]

Just now, Rain said:

This would be good.  I remember moving into our last ward and a month or so later realized I was taking my son to boys camp and didn't have a clue who the leaders were.  My husband did, but not everyone is married so single moms (and dads) are sometimes at a real disadvantage in that area.

And maybe others who have a lot of contact with ward members if there are any….where it would be more convenient to grab them at church for a minute rather than looking them up at home and calling them.

[BRMC]

4 minutes ago, Rain said:

If they can be up there to serve the ward and not as self serving recognition then women can be up there for reason that are not self serving.

Because they are specifically presiding over and/or conducting Sacrament meeting.  Do Bishopric members sit up front in Primary or Sunday school classes in your ward?

[Calm]

1 minute ago, BRMC said:

Because they are specifically presiding over and/or conducting Sacrament meeting.  Do Bishopric members sit up front in Primary or Sunday school classes in your ward?

There are three men on the stand and at most two who are conducting and/or presiding.

[BRMC]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

There are three men on the stand and at most two who are conducting and/or presiding.

Sure.  They are a Bishopric.   In my ward the Music Leader sits up there, too.

Edited November 25, 2023 by BRMC

[MustardSeed]

 

23 minutes ago, BRMC said:

Men and women have different roles.  There are positions women hold that I can't.  There are things in life that women can do but I can't.  Nature has an order.

You and I have different opinions on this topic and I’m OK with that. 

Edited November 25, 2023 by MustardSeed

[Rain]

2 minutes ago, BRMC said:

Because they are specifically presiding over and/or conducting Sacrament meeting.  Do Bishopric members sit up front in Primary or Sunday school classes in your ward?

In that post I was specifically responding to you saying, "without seeking the recognition of the world? Does not having an eye singled to the glory of God dispel any personal need for recognition?".

If women were to sit on the stand it wouldn't have to mean they were seeking recognition from the world. 

The idea of conducting (and even presiding) is a separate issue.

[Diamondhands69]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

Why in the world would anybody want to be in a leadership position? You just have to do more work.
 

Why would anybody want to be on an HOA? Everyone hates you and it’s just a lot of work.

 

Why would anybody want to be a referee at a sporting event? There’s no glory and hardly any pay.

 

I know. Let’s just make sure women don’t do any of those things.

 

Me personally, I don’t wanna sit on the stand and me personally, I don’t want to be a leader and me personally, I don’t want to sit in on meetings, and provide my point of view. But I certainly don’t like to be told that I don’t qualify simply because I’m a girl. 
 

Im not keeping you down.. just saying I don’t understand why anyone wants a gig that sucks. 
 

As soon as all Mormon women are compelled to serve a two year mission whether they want to or not, then it will be time to hand them the priesthood as well. 
 

im all for it. The priesthood is waaay overrated. 

[BRMC]

2 minutes ago, Rain said:

In that post I was specifically responding to you saying, "without seeking the recognition of the world? Does not having an eye singled to the glory of God dispel any personal need for recognition?".

If women were to sit on the stand it wouldn't have to mean they were seeking recognition from the world. 

The idea of conducting (and even presiding) is a separate issue.

That wasn't me.

[Diamondhands69]

1 hour ago, MrShorty said:

I would agree, and to take @MustardSeed's comment in a different direction, I sometimes wish I would have known back in the day when I was ordained that I could turn down ordination so that I would never be eligible for these callings in the church.

I regularly turn down stuff. Yea I know it’s hard to believe given my attitude which is well known. They still think they will fix me. It’s great being a ward project.
 

i grew up in a Mormon power family and saw my dad get used and abused for my whole life holding big callings. He was gone so much I barely knew him. My mom barely knew him as well. Church callings and meetings always were more important than anything the family had going on. That’s how real hardline Mormons roll. Most members have no idea how time intensive it is and how it can destroy your family life. The wife and kids are the victims for real.
 

Women can have at it. 

[JAHS]

29 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think they should cycle through the auxiliaries so faces and names of all leaders are easier to learn, so you can see who is in charge of your kids, etc.

And that way it’s not a particular hardship for anyone.

Or they could at least have them speak in a Sacrament meeting as a group so people will better know who they are.

[JAHS]

18 minutes ago, BRMC said:

Sure.  They are a Bishopric.   In my ward the Music Leader sits up there, too.

And the Ward clerk who is taking notes. I remember there used to be a special desk on the stand just for the ward clerk to sit at.

[Rain]

10 minutes ago, BRMC said:

That wasn't me.

I'm sorry I said "you" then.

However, my response that you quoted was to the other post about recognition. Recognition is still a separate issue.

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Or they could at least have them speak in a Sacrament meeting as a group so people will better know who they are.

Once a year is and was never enough for me to imprint on someone, though I do think it is a good idea to have leaders speak too like you describe.  It probably would work best to have a group sit on the stand for a month for me for it to take, but I hope most people are better at retaining face memory than I am, so every other month would likely work well enough for most.  And those with poor face memories could make the effort to pick them out of the congregation the following week or two to get the memory better set.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Calm

[Diamondhands69]

43 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think they should cycle through the auxiliaries so faces and names of all leaders are easier to learn, so you can see who is in charge of your kids, etc.

And that way it’s not a particular hardship for anyone.

Why is being on the stand a “hardship?”

[Diamondhands69]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

Once a year is and was never enough for me to imprint on someone, though I do think it is a good idea to have leaders speak too like you describe.  

In some wards the leaders change so much they’d be released before their talk was done. Quarterly would be better. We already have some people who talk three or four times a year as it is. Good friend of ours is in bishopric and says no one will give talks. I volunteered but he laughed… “ you know we cant have you up there” was all he said 

 

[BRMC]

16 minutes ago, JAHS said:

And the Ward clerk who is taking notes. I remember there used to be a special desk on the stand just for the ward clerk to sit at.

Interesting.  Taking notes for what?   I've never seen that in any ward I've been to.