Does God intervene?

[OGHoosier]

I envy you sailors. I love boats and sailing, nautical science and history and have considered joining the Navy Reserve seriously. But I spend my time in two pretty-much landlocked states so there isn't much of it for me.

[rodheadlee]

46 minutes ago, manol said:

Wow.  Not often do we get to see "the big picture" which makes sense of things.  THANK YOU for sharing that with us. 

[sailing story] I recall a squall in the Gulf of Mexico on a 30-foot sailboat during a race.  Even with the main reefed to just a small triangle and a storm jib, the gusts would knock the mast down horizontal as we hiked out on the high side and looked down at the keel.  Another boat had an anemometer - not standard equipment in the early 70's - which blew off the masthead after recording 103 knots. [/sailing story] 

Yeah we had 8 minutes of Eternity in The Straits of Florida. We were healed over so far I couldn't let the main sheet loose, it was on the windward side . After that Squall I ran forward and dropped the main. We just had a little 90 ft storm sail up front on the cutter rig for the next squall. Man that boat stood up on her feet and just smashed through the waves.

Edited January 29, 2023 by rodheadlee

[manol]

43 minutes ago, OGHoosier said:

I envy you sailors. I love boats and sailing, nautical science and history and have considered joining the Navy Reserve seriously. But I spend my time in two pretty-much landlocked states so there isn't much of it for me.

A boat is a hole in the water, surrounded by wood or fiberglass, into which you throw money... so the secret is, get invited to go sailing on someone else's boat!

Seriously, it is absolutely exhilarating to have your hand on the tiller, the boat heeled over partway and straining in a stiff breeze, fully under your control.  No sound but the wind and water and the spray in your face, maybe a few dolphins alongside, sometimes close enough to peek into the cockpit.  It's been over forty years but I still miss it. 

I'm sure there are other cool worlds out there, but where else in the universe can you experience THAT?

[rodheadlee]

15 minutes ago, manol said:

A boat is a hole in the water, surrounded by wood or fiberglass, into which you throw money... so the secret is, get invited to go sailing on someone else's boat!

Seriously, it is absolutely exhilarating to have your hand on the tiller, the boat heeled over partway and straining in a stiff breeze, fully under your control.  No sound but the wind and water and the spray in your face, maybe a few dolphins alongside, sometimes close enough to peek into the cockpit.  It's been over forty years but I still miss it. 

I'm sure there are other cool worlds out there, but where else in the universe can you experience THAT?

We justify it by living on it. Of course that hasn't happened for the last year since mom died. Been taking care of Dad.

[JAHS]

3 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

I will explain the situation better. We are in a 38 ft sailboat sailing from Mazatlan to French Polynesia. My wife and I and our two cats were the only crew. We spent 26 days at sea and saw only three vessels. So we had plenty of time to read the book of Mormon and pray almost hourly.

When we crossed the intertropical Convergence Zone we had a line of squalls that traveled from west to east. At first it was fun we would get out of bar soap and take a shower in the cockpit with the fresh water that God bestowed up on us. After a while it got kind of scary and we would drop all our sails and ride it out. 

One time this huge squall was bearing down on us and I could not get the boat to go fast enough to pass in front of it or to slow down enough to pass behind it (because the waves were wrong) so we prayed mightily and God stopped this squall in it's tracks and we were able to pass in front of it.

Well about a month later we were sailing from French Polynesia to Samoa. And our course took us consistently down this line of squalls. I could sail a hundred miles north or 100 miles south of my rumb line and we couldn't get out of them. I tried praying mightily again and God told me "no these things must need be but I will keep you safe" About 2 weeks later I was sitting in the Anchorage at Pago Pago and I watched these squalls run into Rainmaker mountain.

So it was plain to see that if these squalls were diverted from their natural line the island would not receive the rain it needed to keep everyone and everything properly watered. So it was obvious if He answered my prayer that it would deprive these people of their water.

 

A few years ago California was in a drought. Everyone was praying for rain except our family. We were praying it would not rain because if it did our roof would leak like a sieve into the house. Did God answer our prayers at the expense of everyone else? When I spoke at Sacrament I apologized to everyone for the lack of rain and told them it was our fault. They all laughed. 🙂  It did make them think though about why God might answer some of their prayers and not others. 

[Scott180]

Yes, I believe He does at times intervene but not as often as I think we give Him credit for.

Scripture says our prayers are heard but if everything is done for us then does agency still hold true. 

[Calm]

12 hours ago, Rain said:

Anyway, I wanted to say this because there are people who desperately want to have God involved in their lives and seek it through their thoughts and actions and don't feel his guidance. It is really hard to be one of them. And if that's you then know you're not alone. 

Medication I took to be able to care for my family did this to me for a few years. Thankfully when we moved new doctors were willing to try something else and I could feel his Presence again.  But what if I had to take that drug to function for the rest of my life?  I believe I found ways the Spirit let me know, but it never felt so convincing, so all in as the internal sense of connection, more like just catching a flicker of familiarity off to the edge of my vision so to speak…and I can see as the years went on and these were few and far between  (though that might be my lack of awareness of the method rather than actual occurrence) and the memory of the internal connection faded, the very real possibility of doubt coming in as I was starting from the position of “maybe I am just reading too much into this”, but let myself choose faith at that time.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

13 hours ago, JAHS said:

"Pray as thought everything depended on God, and work as though everything depended on you" (Saint Augustine)

I sort of agree with this, but it can kill you if you don’t make any exceptions…plus you may convince yourself it’s the truth, which is worse imo.

[Calm]

4 hours ago, OGHoosier said:

I envy you sailors. I love boats and sailing, nautical science and history and have considered joining the Navy Reserve seriously. But I spend my time in two pretty-much landlocked states so there isn't much of it for me.

I do too, but I get instantly sea sick on small craft, so it’s never been an option.   I stick to beaches when I can get to them…which has been 15 years so far this time.  Eternally hoping…

Edited January 29, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

10 hours ago, manol said:

reincarnation

I think experiences that seem to support reincarnation are a result of this level of sharing others’ mortal experiences before we come.  Why would we waste our time while we wait for our turn. My guess is part of the preparation for mortality is watching how others do it with an awareness that is much deeper than we can presently manage. Veiled partial memories lead us to think it was our own life we were living rather than another’s.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

8 hours ago, manol said:

yesterday's insight won't necessarily get me back to yesterday's feeling of connection, so I have to keep actively moving towards the light

So true and both extremely painful and glorious…like looking at baby pictures and missing that child with all my heart, but equally loving the child I have now and knowing that I also have everything they were before in this moment as well even if it doesn’t always feel that way, like when I want to just touch that baby’s hand again and have him grip my fingers…and then there is all of that connection I have to look forward to.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Yeah what you say is true but I have had Him tell me "these things must needs be"so He couldn't answer my prayer.

 

There is comfort in this kind of “no”.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

So it was plain to see that if these squalls were diverted from their natural line the island would not receive the rain it needed to keep everyone and everything properly watered. So it was obvious if He answered my prayer that it would deprive these people of their water.

 

Beautiful that you were able to see the results when so often we have to take it on faith because cause and effect is usually more complicated and it is harder to make that type of connections.

[manol]

36 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think experiences that seem to support reincarnation are a result of this level of sharing others’ mortal experiences before we come.  Why would we waste our timr while we wait for out turn. My guess is part of the preparation for mortality is be watching how others do it with an awareness that is much deeper than we can presently manage. Veiled partial memories lead us to think it was our own life we were living rather than another’s.

I think there's an excellent chance you're correct.

I have a few memories of what seem to be a past life, and verified them with someone who knew the person whose life I recall (without letting on why I was inquiring about this person, because that would have been way outside the comfort zone of the living person I posed my questions to).  There were a couple of themes, shall we say, in that person's life which are present in mine but are not detrimental to the extent they were in his, as if I had "learned from" his mistakes.  But this could ALSO VERY WELL be something the person shared with me in the spirit world before I was born, to help me not make some of the mistakes he had, with his sharing presumably having made a strong impression on me.

Imo it really doesn't matter whether reincarnation or something similar is "true" or not, because the task at hand (living this life) is the same either way.  And there is the possibility of a distracting and detrimental ego trip if a person thinks they are the reincarnation of someone "great" and that that matters. 

Have you ever seen the back of a tapestry, with the threads going every which way and it's a mess that makes no sense?  But then when you look at the front of the tapestry, ah, there is order and beauty and it all makes sense from that perspective.  Maybe we only see the backside of the tapestry from here.

Edited January 29, 2023 by manol

[Calm]

9 minutes ago, manol said:

Imo it really doesn't matter whether reincarnation or something similar is "true" or not, because the task at hand (living this life) is the same either way.  And there is the possibility of a distracting and detrimental ego trip if a person thinks they are the reincarnation of someone "great" and that that matters. 

Reincarnation feels hopeless to me, probably because I don’t trust that human nature will always improve and so it is more likely the majority of us will regress to a lesser state and have to purify our souls or whatever over and over endlessly…assuming that version of reincarnation. If it is just we reincarnate until we get all the opportunities we need, less depressing, but so much suffering.

While some might feel the ability to have a do over sounds good, the likelihood of getting the life that fulfills my dreams rather than just leaves me with more unfulfilled ones seems too low to make the idea appealing.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Calm

[theplains]

On 1/27/2023 at 2:59 PM, MustardSeed said:

I’m not sure what you’re wanting me to understand in the context of my question . 

I was just saying that God's testimony about himself is more important than our testimony.

[OGHoosier]

On 1/28/2023 at 10:59 PM, manol said:

I think there's an excellent chance you're correct.

I have a few memories of what seem to be a past life, and verified them with someone who knew the person whose life I recall (without letting on why I was inquiring about this person, because that would have been way outside the comfort zone of the living person I posed my questions to).  There were a couple of themes, shall we say, in that person's life which are present in mine but are not detrimental to the extent they were in his, as if I had "learned from" his mistakes.  But this could ALSO VERY WELL be something the person shared with me in the spirit world before I was born, to help me not make some of the mistakes he had, with his sharing presumably having made a strong impression on me.

Imo it really doesn't matter whether reincarnation or something similar is "true" or not, because the task at hand (living this life) is the same either way.  And there is the possibility of a distracting and detrimental ego trip if a person thinks they are the reincarnation of someone "great" and that that matters. 

Have you ever seen the back of a tapestry, with the threads going every which way and it's a mess that makes no sense?  But then when you look at the front of the tapestry, ah, there is order and beauty and it all makes sense from that perspective.  Maybe we only see the backside of the tapestry from here.

I must admit @manol, you are quite good at expanding the mind.

[manol]

3 hours ago, OGHoosier said:

I must admit @manol, you are quite good at expanding the mind.

Duuude... you oughtta try smokin' what I'm smokin'...

(just kidding!)

Seriously, thank you very much.  I never know how my off-brand weirdness is going to come across.

On 1/29/2023 at 12:07 AM, Calm said:

Reincarnation feels hopeless to me...

Then DON'T BUY INTO IT!!

On 1/29/2023 at 12:07 AM, Calm said:

... probably because I don’t trust that human nature will always improve and so it is more likely the majority of us will regress to a lesser state and have to purify our souls or whatever over and over endlessly…assuming that version of reincarnation.

I think we innately and generally - though NOT consistently! - trend towards progression, which is not at all obvious when we're on our way to a "hitting rock bottom" experience.  So I definitely think "second chances" are a thing, though I don't know all the variations of how "second chances" might show up.  But I don't think anybody gets cheated or written off, appearances in this life notwithstanding. 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by manol