The bare minimum.

[Jerry Atric]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Calm and I I have provided sources that support our position. You have provided none. When you are given a CFR on this board you are required to provide them. I repeat Webbles’ call for your references.

 

What have I said that you want a CFR on?

[Jerry Atric]

5 hours ago, webbles said:

That doesn't answer a CFR.  Yes, "Latter-day Saints" is in the name of the church but that doesn't say that our "main reason for collecting <stuff>" is for the second coming.

This is funny. You're pretending as if we haven't been taught we're the only people on earth who can help our brothers and sisters make it back to God. Yes it dies answer a CFR. What are you asking me to CFR?

[Jerry Atric]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

And the Tribune that distorts everything negatively? 

So the article bogus because it's in the tribune? Seriously? 

[Jerry Atric]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Oh my gosh.

Where do you live?   Have you ever been a bishop or heard from any authority that that is a good idea?

Yes

[Jerry Atric]

1 hour ago, webbles said:

Nothing in there is about protecting temples with rooms with "long guns".  Yes, the church has a security department.  They have bodyguards for the prophet.  They have security for Temple Square as well.  They have security at the Nauvoo sites.  I don't really see the relevance of this

Really? The church is a multi billion dollar corporation that has a multi million dollar security team. Multi billion dollar companies, and it doesn't matter that it's a church,  don't handicap their security by limiting them to just pistols. That would crazy. Why would the church need two firing ranges? 

[Jerry Atric]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I am pretty sure I issued a CFR as well way back.

Funny. What do you want a CFR on?

[webbles]

15 minutes ago, Jerry Atric said:

This is funny. You're pretending as if we haven't been taught we're the only people on earth who can help our brothers and sisters make it back to God. Yes it dies answer a CFR. What are you asking me to CFR?

No, the CFR is on "main reason for collecting <stuff>" is for the second coming.  You keep saying that is the main reason for collecting "stuff" and you've never given any references to it.  You still haven't.

[webbles]

7 minutes ago, Jerry Atric said:

Really? The church is a multi billion dollar corporation that has a multi million dollar security team. Multi billion dollar companies, and it doesn't matter that it's a church,  don't handicap their security by limiting them to just pistols. That would crazy. Why would the church need two firing ranges? 

It is almost like you keep changing the goal post.  You said that temples have a room with "long guns".  You also said that bishops ask a few individuals to bring weapons to church to protect the church.  I asked where the room with "long guns" was and I pointed out how bishops can NOT ask for individuals to bring weapons to church.  Instead of responding to those items, you bring up the fact that the church has a security team.  I'm not disputing that the church has a security team.  Sure, they practice with both handguns and rifles.  None of that matters to this discussion.

Another CFR, where does it say that temples have rooms with "long guns"?  I'll even make it easier and just ask where do temples have rooms with handguns?

[JustAnAustralian]

[Jerry Atric]

29 minutes ago, webbles said:

No, the CFR is on "main reason for collecting <stuff>" is for the second coming.  You keep saying that is the main reason for collecting "stuff" and you've never given any references to it.  You still haven't.

Have I entered a parallel universe where mormonism is totally different than the one I grew up in? 

We're LATTER DAY saints! We prepare for the LATTER DAYS. We always have.

[mfbukowski]

9 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

Cute but that's a revolver.

You can look right into the cylinder and count how many he's got left.

Hollywood and real guns.  Scary

 

 

[Jerry Atric]

29 minutes ago, webbles said:

is almost like you keep changing the goal post.  You said that temples have a room with "long guns".

If a multi billion dollar organization has a multi million dollar security department, they have long guns. Unless you want the men that protect the brethren to be handicapped and be limited to pistols, but that's not how security details for multi billion dollar corporations work. They don't handicap themselves by only using pistols because a handful of Mormons on a discussion board are afraid of ar15s.

[Jerry Atric]

34 minutes ago, webbles said:

Another CFR, where does it say that temples have rooms with "long guns"?  I'll even make it easier and just ask where do temples have rooms with handguns?

Hahaha! If I knew where the guns were stored in the temple, the churches multi million dollar security team would be a bunch of dumb dumbs. That's like security 101. Don't tell people where you store the guns, duh!

[MiserereNobis]

8 minutes ago, Jerry Atric said:

Have I entered a parallel universe where mormonism is totally different than the one I grew up in? 

We're LATTER DAY saints! We prepare for the LATTER DAYS. We always have.

I’m not LDS so you can’t rely on my LDS experiences as an answer for my question.

CFR that temples have a room with guns in it. A link, a document, a blueprint, or some such thing will suffice, but it has to be a reference, not just a statement or argument from you. 
 

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, Jerry Atric said:

Depending where live I guess, lots if wards have multiple armed men, multiple, ask any bishop.

I used to be one, quite recently.

Baloney.  The church does not support armed conflict or the MMM.

Of course there are security officers for the highest leaders.    

[webbles]

18 minutes ago, Jerry Atric said:

Have I entered a parallel universe where mormonism is totally different than the one I grew up in? 

We're LATTER DAY saints! We prepare for the LATTER DAYS. We always have.

No one is arguing that we aren't Latter-day saints.  But people have given plenty of evidence that the "food storage" or "1-year storage" or whatever name it is under was not primarily for the end times.  You appear to be the only person who thinks that we stockpile food primarily for the second coming.  Somehow, you missed all of the lessons, talks, etc that spoke the contrary or you just didn't listen.

[Jerry Atric]

3 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I’m not LDS so you can’t rely on my LDS experiences as an answer for my question.

CFR that temples have a room with guns in it. A link, a document, a blueprint, or some such thing will suffice, but it has to be a reference, not just a statement or argument from you. 
 

That's impossible! And I'm glad it is! If people knew were the guns in the temple are, that wouldn't be much of a defense, would it? This is common sense. We've already established the church has a security department,  they probably have firing ranges as the article says. So it's obvious beyond belief that the security guys at the temple have guns. This is just commonsense! Is as if you guys are upset because there's weapons in the house of the lord. If there's security guards, there's weapons. 

[webbles]

15 minutes ago, Jerry Atric said:

If a multi billion dollar organization has a multi million dollar security department, they have long guns. Unless you want the men that protect the brethren to be handicapped and be limited to pistols, but that's not how security details for multi billion dollar corporations work. They don't handicap themselves by only using pistols because a handful of Mormons on a discussion board are afraid of ar15s.

I'm not saying they don't have long guns.  Of course the security department has long guns.  The article you linked to says that they train with it.  We are talking about "rooms in temples with long guns".

12 minutes ago, Jerry Atric said:

Hahaha! If I knew where the guns were stored in the temple, the churches multi million dollar security team would be a bunch of dumb dumbs. That's like security 101. Don't tell people where you store the guns, duh!

So, you have no proof of a room in any temple that has long guns.  You just made it up.  Got it.

[mfbukowski]

53 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I’m not LDS so you can’t rely on my LDS experiences as an answer for my question.

CFR that temples have a room with guns in it. A link, a document, a blueprint, or some such thing will suffice, but it has to be a reference, not just a statement or argument from you. 
 

I am not going to allow this silly stuff to continue.   

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/no-firearms-in-latter-day-saint-houses-of-worship

ALWAYS verify information that seems weird from official church sources, as is this article

This was written in 2004

The policy dates back to 1996.

That's 26 years ago.

When I was a bishop, there was a problem with a member who was involved in gangs before joining the church and there were rumors that armed "investigators" may be after him.   The police sent a car which stood in a conspicuous place in the parking lot.   Nobody else knew why the police were there.

Eventually the problem was resolved without incident.   BUT MAN it was very clear that NO ONE was to carry a gun in church.  Stern warnings from the SP.  I personally was told to contact all the "likely" people who might not know about the policy and did.   I have to admit it was a scary time for me- it would have been very easy to carry a weapon but I did not, and sat on the stand scanning everyone more closely than usual.

There were protests at the LA temple during the proposition 8 campaign during which the temple received some minor damage, iirc, primarily to gates which were locked, and the crowds tried to get through them.   The security guys were observing all, and the police were at the ready if anything serious happened.

Nothing did.

I was a temple worker and knew the temple well.   A dear friend was the temple president.  Other workers were also on the security staff.   I never saw or heard anything about hidden guns, though admittedly I was most likely not in a position to know about that anyway.

Quote

 

SALT LAKE CITY — The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has mailed a letter to its local leaders in Utah informing them that the Church "plans to invoke ... Utah law and give public notice that firearms are prohibited in the Church's houses of worship, including temples, meetinghouses, the Assembly Hall, the Salt Lake Tabernacle, and the Conference Center."

This action implements the Church's position announced by the First Presidency in 1996 that churches are dedicated for the worship of God and as havens from the cares and concerns of the world and that, consequently, lethal weapons, concealed or otherwise, do not belong in houses of worship. The Church shares this belief with many other religions in Utah.

The Church will register its position with the State Bureau of Criminal Investigation and provide notice in the newspaper, as required by the Utah law that allows religious organizations to prohibit concealed weapons from their premises.

Once the actions of registering and providing public notice are completed, individuals with concealed-carry weapons permits will not be allowed to bring their firearms inside Latter-day Saint houses of worship.

The Church's position and these announced actions apply only to houses of worship. The Church has not taken a position on legislation regarding guns in public schools or other public places.

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by mfbukowski

[Jerry Atric]

11 minutes ago, webbles said:

,so you have no proof of a room in any temple that has long guns.  You just made it up.  Got it.

You should be very happy no one knows where the room in the temple is that holds the security guards guns. That's a positive! 

[ksfisher]

13 minutes ago, Jerry Atric said:

So it's obvious beyond belief that the security guys at the temple have guns. This is just commonsense! Is as if you guys are upset because there's weapons in the house of the lord. If there's security guards, there's weapons. 

The security personnel at temples do not carry guns.  They don't.  They carry radios and if there is a problem then call the police.  You don't know what you're talking about.

[Jerry Atric]

9 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I am not going to allow this crackpot stuff to continue. 

That means nothing. Guns are in church all the time and they will be until the church installs metal detectors. If you go to a mormon church, trust me, there's a gun somewhere on someone.

[Jerry Atric]

1 minute ago, ksfisher said:

The security personnel at temples do not carry guns.  They don't.  They carry radios and if there is a problem then call the police.  You don't know what you're talking about.

It's common sense. Trust me, security guards carry weapons at the temple. Maybe not all. But some do.

[webbles]

4 minutes ago, Jerry Atric said:

You should be very happy no one knows where the room in the temple is that holds the security guards guns. That's a positive! 

You have no proof that there is a room.  You are just making things up.

We do have proof of there not being such a room.  Several people have broken into temples.  I even gave an article of a man with a handgun holding two temple security guards hostage in the Washington DC temple.  No secret guns came out of hiding.  It took hours to resolve the hostage situation so there was plenty of time for these secret guns to be used.  The police were the ones to resolve it.

I don't know you think there are these secret rooms, but they don't exist.

[Raingirl]

5 hours ago, Jerry Atric said:

Because bodyguards have guns. You said more than two guns is fringy?  Well Nelson is protected by more than two guns, is he fringy?

What about a ward that's protected by more than two guns? Fringy?

Are we extremists because the temples are protected by more than two guns?

 

Because I don't think you realize how much you're actually protected by guns even though you don't own one. There's a good chance your bishop has asked at least one member of the ward to carry a gun during service just incase, did you know that to be the case? Everytime you enter onto temple grounds you're being protected by a security team with weapons. Not just handguns, but somewhere on the temple grounds is a room with long guns just in case. Did you know that? 

CFR on “a room with long guns”.