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The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Wisdom, is a Girl


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I've been studying this quite a bit. I think the Holy Spirit is a girl. Not only that but the Lord Jesus' sister and wife... and in a few senses, his mother because she was a secondary agent involved in the birth of Jesus. I figured that this is for some reason a controversy because we all call it a "he", like John's gospel in Greek calls it a "he" while the Greek word for "spirit" is neutral. But the Old Testament Hebrew for "Spirit" is consistently a female.

I wonder what issues the church has against it other than custom, we do believe spirits have gender. I don't recall Joseph Smith ever claiming that he ever saw the personage of the Holy Ghost. Latter-day Saints believe there is a female in the deity, Heavely Mother, and that Jesus should be married for his exaltation's sake (that doesn't have to be, he could be an exception, this isn't a doctrine).

I have pages and pages of research. Through the Bible, extra-Biblical texts, Canaanite texts, the Quran. So to start, I guess I should give this a proper "genesis". For this for those who don't know anything about it before you reject it out of hand.

The Bible contains what scholars refer to as "wisdom literature", the Book of Job, the Book of Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Song of Solomon, some of the Psalms and the Apocrypha contains the Book of Tobit, Wisdom of Solomon, the Wisdom of Ben Sira. These books are called this because a common theme in these books are references to a character called "wisdom", personified as a female, and a noticeable lack of references to Moses, the Aaronic priesthood nor the Exodus. (Why that is interesting will have to come back to). In the Wisdom of Solomon, a book that was in every Bible until the 17th century, Wisdom is the "Holy Spirit" (Wisdom of Solomon 9:17). Solomon explains that he himself is a mortal by origin and ultimate fate, yet not like other men. Though born of a noble spirit from heaven and thus bless with natural gifts, the Spirit of Wisdom can only be bestowed as a gift from God (Wisdom of Solomon 8:13). Wisdom, "passing through into holy souls from age to age, she produces friends of God and prophets" (Wisdom of Solomon 7:27).

The Holy Spirit first appears in the Bible in the Book of Genesis as a separate entity from God (Gen 1:2). The "Spirit [Ruah (H#7037) (a feminine word for) life, spirit, wind, breath]", denoting wind, yet not possessing a purely immaterial form in the late Greek and Christian sense of a spirit, but a substance having an ability to interact with matter. The Israelite conceived it as not merely a force or power, having a mind, opinion, personality and will of its own, interceding on behalf of men with its own desires for them and speaking out against the judgments of God (Leviticus Rabbah 6:1; Rom 8:26).

Like Yahweh, it goes by many other epithets "Wisdom is of many names" (Philo, All. Int. 1:43). Though, unlike El Elyon and Yahweh whose epithets are always masculine (a Lord, King or Father), and never feminine, the Ruah (a feminine noun) is always referred to by feminine epithets, words with an "[-ah]" suffix, indicating a feminine gender (Ruah (spirit), Haknah (wisdom), Shekinah, etc.). Genesis says the Ruah, a feminine word, "moved [(H#7363)]", a feminine noun meaning the Ruah is regarded as a female, and the word means she was 'fluttering' over the deep (take note: that it implies she has wings/flaps, that will be important later). The world existed "without form [(H#8414) chaotic waste]", with sea of water, a "deep [tehom (H#8415) the abyss of the sea]" (Gen 1:2), referring to both the sea of chaos and also the chaos angel/dragon of the sea. As a humanly uninhabitable world of chaotic water, full of monstrous adversaries, "whales [(H#8577) dragons, sea serpents]" (Gen 1:21). The waters of chaos are often personified as wicked spiritual beings, which had to be subdued first before the world could be "created [(H#1254) to form, to cut, to put into shape]", or remade habitable. The other Creation accounts outside of Genesis tells more varied details.

That when Yahweh began his reign as King of the divine council, or as psalms says He was "clothed" "in light" of his Kingly robe on the first day of Creation (Ps 104:1-2), He "formed" light by separating the light from the darkness (Isa 45:7), and casting that spiritual darkness into the primeval sea, and covered heaven with the firmament, a veil, to hide the heavens from those cast out below. Job says it was done by personage of the Spirit, "By his Spirit He hath garnished [(H#8235) made bright, or purified] the heavens" and in parallel, by "His hand hath formed [(H#2342) felled, made to writhe (as in pain)] the crooked [(H#1281) pierced] serpent". From within the sea the wicked spirits, the "dead [(H#7496) ghosts, shades]" under the water "formed [(H#2342) writhed]" as He stretched the north, or the heavens, over the void, shielding the heavens from sight of the those on the earth (Job 26:5-8, 12-13), then he set the beams for the water chambers and made the winds (spirits) and fires (angels) his servants, before the foundation of the soil was laid on the third day (Ps 104:1-5). All of these things were done with the Spirit of Wisdom at the Lord's side (Ps 104:24, 35). The Spirit produced the wind which held up the vault of heaven, and she walked the depths of the sea, seeking a resting place. The rest she sought would later be the garden of Eden, an arboreal sanctuary on the summit of a holy mountain (Eze 28:13-14, 18). The Temple is Wisdom's house, her rest (Prov 9:1), she found her rest in Jerusalem (Ben Sira 24:7) and lost her rest when the Temple was destroyed (1 Enoch 42). "I came forth from the mouth of the Most High and covered the earth like a mist. I dwelt in high places and my throne was in a pillar of cloud. Alone I made the circuit of heaven and have walked the depths of the abyss" (Sirach 24:24:4-6).

Indeed, the Bible says she was alone in making these things (Prov 8:27-29). She is the "breath [(H#5397) spirit, wind] of life" that came forth from Elyon (Gen 2:7; LXX Gen 2:7) that brought Adam to life (Gen 1:27; 2:7; Job 33:4; Wisdom of Solomon 9:1; 2 Enoch 30:8; Philo, De Confusion Linguarum 179; Hellenistic Synogogal Prayers 3:19; 4:7, 38; 12:36) and so is call the Spirit of Life (Job 27:3). 3rd Book of Enoch has "I commanded my Wisdom to create man" (3 Enoch 30:8). Without the Spirit all things would perish (Job 34:15; Lev 17:14; Num 18:15; Joel 2:28). She has the ability to transform dust into living things (Job 34:14; LXX, Job 34:15). The Lord sent her to create, "Thou sendest forth thy Spirit they are created" (Ps 104:30). Targums (Jewish Aramaic translations of the Torah) translates the beginning of Genesis as, "in the beginning with Wisdom the Lord created..." (Targum Neofiti and Fragment Targums, Paris BNHeb110; Vatican Ebr. 440). Also she was the Mother of the angels (Job 38:4-7; Melchizedek 17; Gospel of Philip, CG 2:3:63).

In the Book of Proverbs, the "Spirit" is the prominent character (Prov 1:23) and the Spirit is frequently called "Wisdom [Haknah (H#2451) another feminine word]". She is described like a deity, as people cry out to her (Prov 1:24-28). She is portrayed as a female companion or wife of God, who existed at his side, and even participated in the creation of the world (Prov 3:19; 8:22-34). She is from the eternal world, from "everlasting", from the "beginning" before creation of the earth (Prov 8:22f), in fact God "founded the earth by Wisdom" (Prov 3:19). He "established the world by his wisdom" (Jer 10:12). She says she stood by the Lord, as the Amon, "as one brought up [amon (H#539) master workman] with Him; and I was His daily delight, and my delights were the children of men" (Prov 8:30). As the Septuagint puts it, the Amon stood at the Lord's side as a "[harmozousa (Greek: one who joins together)]" (LXX, Prov 8:30). The word also means a "nurse" (Num 11:12; Ruth 4:6) and when used as a verb means to carry a child (Isa 60:4). At the Lord's side, she is credited as a creatrix, one that conceives or creates many things (Wisdom of Solomon 9:2, 9; Hellenistic Synogogal Prayers 3:19; 4:7, 38; 12:10). The Creation itself is described as a form of procreation (Gen 2:4). The Wisdom of Solomon says she "glorifies her noble birth by living with God, and the Lord of all loves her. For she is an initiate in the knowledge of God and an associate in all his works" (Wisdom of Solomon 8:3-4). As Philo reads it, "[Wisdom] proclaims her noble birth in that she is given to her to live with God, and the Sovereign Lord of all loved her", and claiming that Symbious here is being used in the sense of 'marital connubium' and means that she is his wife (Philo, On Cherubim 14:49). "Wisdom is My adviser" (2 Enoch 33:4). Margret Barker believes that perhaps the Amon is the "Amen" of Revelations (Rev 3:14).

This information goes on for many pages, so I'll just stop there and see what kind of problems I might have created so far.

Edited by Pyreaux
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33 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

. I think the Holy Spirit is a girl

So ten years old or 16 maybe? :P 

Edited by Calm
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26 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Or the Holy Ghost is a being utterly unlike us.

Do you means in terms of power, authority, and not possessing a body of flesh? Or do you mean like an inhuman God appendage in the shape of a spiritual blob that fills the universe?

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1 hour ago, Pyreaux said:

I've been studying this quite a bit. I think the Holy Spirit is a girl. Not only that but the Lord Jesus' sister and wife... and in a few senses, his mother because she was a secondary agent involved in the birth of Jesus. I figured that this is for some reason a controversy because we all call it a "he", like John's gospel in Greek calls it a "he" while the Greek word for "spirit" is neutral. But the Old Testament Hebrew for "Spirit" is consistently a female.

I wonder what issues the church has against it other than custom, we do believe spirits have gender. I don't recall Joseph Smith ever claiming that he ever saw the personage of the Holy Ghost. Latter-day Saints believe there is a female in the deity, Heavely Mother, and that Jesus should be married for his exaltation's sake (that doesn't have to be, he could be an exception, this isn't a doctrine).

I have pages and pages of research. Through the Bible, extra-Biblical texts, Canaanite texts, the Quran. So to start, I guess I should give this a proper "genesis". For this for those who don't know anything about it before you reject it out of hand.

The Bible contains what scholars refer to as "wisdom literature", the Book of Job, the Book of Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Song of Solomon, some of the Psalms and the Apocrypha contains the Book of Tobit, Wisdom of Solomon, the Wisdom of Ben Sira. These books are called this because a common theme in these books are references to a character called "wisdom", personified as a female, and a noticeable lack of references to Moses, the Aaronic priesthood nor the Exodus. (Why that is interesting will have to come back to). In the Wisdom of Solomon, a book that was in every Bible until the 17th century, Wisdom is the "Holy Spirit" (Wisdom of Solomon 9:17). Solomon explains that he himself is a mortal by origin and ultimate fate, yet not like other men. Though born of a noble spirit from heaven and thus bless with natural gifts, the Spirit of Wisdom can only be bestowed as a gift from God (Wisdom of Solomon 8:13). Wisdom, "passing through into holy souls from age to age, she produces friends of God and prophets" (Wisdom of Solomon 7:27).

The Holy Spirit first appears in the Bible in the Book of Genesis as a separate entity from God (Gen 1:2). The "Spirit [Ruah (H#7037) (a feminine word for) life, spirit, wind, breath]", denoting wind, yet not possessing a purely immaterial form in the late Greek and Christian sense of a spirit, but a substance having an ability to interact with matter. The Israelite conceived it as not merely a force or power, having a mind, opinion, personality and will of its own, interceding on behalf of men with its own desires for them and speaking out against the judgments of God (Leviticus Rabbah 6:1; Rom 8:26).

Like Yahweh, it goes by many other epithets "Wisdom is of many names" (Philo, All. Int. 1:43). Though, unlike El Elyon and Yahweh whose epithets are always masculine (a Lord, King or Father), and never feminine, the Ruah (a feminine noun) is always referred to by feminine epithets, words with an "[-ah]" suffix, indicating a feminine gender (Ruah (spirit), Haknah (wisdom), Shekinah, etc.). Genesis says the Ruah, a feminine word, "moved [(H#7363)]", a feminine noun meaning the Ruah is regarded as a female, and the word means she was 'fluttering' over the deep (take note: that it implies she has wings/flaps, that will be important later). The world existed "without form [(H#8414) chaotic waste]", with sea of water, a "deep [tehom (H#8415) the abyss of the sea]" (Gen 1:2), referring to both the sea of chaos and also the chaos angel/dragon of the sea. As a humanly uninhabitable world of chaotic water, full of monstrous adversaries, "whales [(H#8577) dragons, sea serpents]" (Gen 1:21). The waters of chaos are often personified as wicked spiritual beings, which had to be subdued first before the world could be "created [(H#1254) to form, to cut, to put into shape]", or remade habitable. The other Creation accounts outside of Genesis tells more varied details.

That when Yahweh began his reign as King of the divine council, or as psalms says He was "clothed" "in light" of his Kingly robe on the first day of Creation (Ps 104:1-2), He "formed" light by separating the light from the darkness (Isa 45:7), and casting that spiritual darkness into the primeval sea, and covered heaven with the firmament, a veil, to hide the heavens from those cast out below. Job says it was done by personage of the Spirit, "By his Spirit He hath garnished [(H#8235) made bright, or purified] the heavens" and in parallel, by "His hand hath formed [(H#2342) felled, made to writhe (as in pain)] the crooked [(H#1281) pierced] serpent". From within the sea the wicked spirits, the "dead [(H#7496) ghosts, shades]" under the water "formed [(H#2342) writhed]" as He stretched the north, or the heavens, over the void, shielding the heavens from sight of the those on the earth (Job 26:5-8, 12-13), then he set the beams for the water chambers and made the winds (spirits) and fires (angels) his servants, before the foundation of the soil was laid on the third day (Ps 104:1-5). All of these things were done with the Spirit of Wisdom at the Lord's side (Ps 104:24, 35). The Spirit produced the wind which held up the vault of heaven, and she walked the depths of the sea, seeking a resting place. The rest she sought would later be the garden of Eden, an arboreal sanctuary on the summit of a holy mountain (Eze 28:13-14, 18). The Temple is Wisdom's house, her rest (Prov 9:1), she found her rest in Jerusalem (Ben Sira 24:7) and lost her rest when the Temple was destroyed (1 Enoch 42). "I came forth from the mouth of the Most High and covered the earth like a mist. I dwelt in high places and my throne was in a pillar of cloud. Alone I made the circuit of heaven and have walked the depths of the abyss" (Sirach 24:24:4-6).

Indeed, the Bible says she was alone in making these things (Prov 8:27-29). She is the "breath [(H#5397) spirit, wind] of life" that came forth from Elyon (Gen 2:7; LXX Gen 2:7) that brought Adam to life (Gen 1:27; 2:7; Job 33:4; Wisdom of Solomon 9:1; 2 Enoch 30:8; Philo, De Confusion Linguarum 179; Hellenistic Synogogal Prayers 3:19; 4:7, 38; 12:36) and so is call the Spirit of Life (Job 27:3). 3rd Book of Enoch has "I commanded my Wisdom to create man" (3 Enoch 30:8). Without the Spirit all things would perish (Job 34:15; Lev 17:14; Num 18:15; Joel 2:28). She has the ability to transform dust into living things (Job 34:14; LXX, Job 34:15). The Lord sent her to create, "Thou sendest forth thy Spirit they are created" (Ps 104:30). Targums (Jewish Aramaic translations of the Torah) translates the beginning of Genesis as, "in the beginning with Wisdom the Lord created..." (Targum Neofiti and Fragment Targums, Paris BNHeb110; Vatican Ebr. 440). Also she was the Mother of the angels (Job 38:4-7; Melchizedek 17; Gospel of Philip, CG 2:3:63).

In the Book of Proverbs, the "Spirit" is the prominent character (Prov 1:23) and the Spirit is frequently called "Wisdom [Haknah (H#2451) another feminine word]". She is described like a deity, as people cry out to her (Prov 1:24-28). She is portrayed as a female companion or wife of God, who existed at his side, and even participated in the creation of the world (Prov 3:19; 8:22-34). She is from the eternal world, from "everlasting", from the "beginning" before creation of the earth (Prov 8:22f), in fact God "founded the earth by Wisdom" (Prov 3:19). He "established the world by his wisdom" (Jer 10:12). She says she stood by the Lord, as the Amon, "as one brought up [amon (H#539) master workman] with Him; and I was His daily delight, and my delights were the children of men" (Prov 8:30). As the Septuagint puts it, the Amon stood at the Lord's side as a "[harmozousa (Greek: one who joins together)]" (LXX, Prov 8:30). The word also means a "nurse" (Num 11:12; Ruth 4:6) and when used as a verb means to carry a child (Isa 60:4). At the Lord's side, she is credited as a creatrix, one that conceives or creates many things (Wisdom of Solomon 9:2, 9; Hellenistic Synogogal Prayers 3:19; 4:7, 38; 12:10). The Creation itself is described as a form of procreation (Gen 2:4). The Wisdom of Solomon says she "glorifies her noble birth by living with God, and the Lord of all loves her. For she is an initiate in the knowledge of God and an associate in all his works" (Wisdom of Solomon 8:3-4). As Philo reads it, "[Wisdom] proclaims her noble birth in that she is given to her to live with God, and the Sovereign Lord of all loved her", and claiming that Symbious here is being used in the sense of 'marital connubium' and means that she is his wife (Philo, On Cherubim 14:49). "Wisdom is My adviser" (2 Enoch 33:4). Margret Barker believes that perhaps the Amon is the "Amen" of Revelations (Rev 3:14).

This information goes on for many pages, so I'll just stop there and see what kind of problems I might have created so far.

In light of the Savior’s disclosure that the Holy Ghost is a male personage, as plainly revealed in the Lord’s famous discourse on the Holy Ghost found in John 16, perhaps you’re onto something! Maybe the Holy Ghost is a male personage who identifies as a female. And when the Lord speaks of God as being his Father, perhaps the Father is also a man who identifies as a female?

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;                                                                                             11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Edited by teddyaware
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26 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

In light of the Savior’s disclosure that the Holy Ghost is a male personage, as plainly revealed in the Lord’s famous discourse on the Holy Ghost found in John 16, perhaps you’re onto something! Maybe the Holy Ghost is a male personage who identifies as a female. And when the Lord speaks of God as being his Father, perhaps the Father is also a man who identifies as a female?

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;                                                                                                 Nnn 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Indeed, although the word for "spirit" by itself (pneuma) is gender-neutral. Since they use gender neutral terms in the Greek, the English translation could've been either gender.

John 14:26
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, [she G1565] shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Definition:
G1565
Original: ἐκεῖνος
Transliteration: ekeinos
Phonetic: ek-i'-nos
Thayer Definition: he, she, it, etc
Strong's Definition: From G1563; that one (or [neuter] thing); often intensified by the article prefixed: - he, it, the other (same), selfsame, that (same, very), X their, X them, they, this, those. See also G3778.

This same word is used for "she" in Mark 16:10.

John 16:7
[7]Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send [her G846] unto you.

Definition:
G846
Original: αὐτός
Transliteration: autos
Phonetic: ow-tos'
Thayer Definition: himself, herself, themselves, itself, he, she, it, the same

This word is used for "her" Matt 1:19 and "she" in Luke 1:36 and 7:35.

John 16:13
[13]Howbeit when [she, G1565] the Spirit of truth, is come, [she] will guide you into all truth: for [she] shall not speak of [herself G1438]; but whatsoever [she] shall hear, that shall [she] speak: and [she] will shew you things to come.

Definition:
G1438
Original: ἑαυτοῦ
Transliteration: heautou
Phonetic: heh-ow-too'
Thayer Definition: himself, herself, itself, themselves
Strong's Definition: (Including all the other cases); from a reflexive pronoun otherwise obsolete and the genitive (dative or accusative) of G846; him (her, it, them, also [in conjunction with the personal pronoun of the other persons] my, thy, our, your) -self (-selves), etc.: - alone, her (own, -self), (he) himself, his (own), itself, one (to) another, our (thine) own (-selves), + that she had, their (own, own selves), (of) them (-selves), they, thyself, you, your (own, own conceits, own selves, -selves).

The term is used for "herself" in Matt 9:21

Jesus says that God the Father is his Father, however he also says that the Divine Wisdom is his mother, "Wisdom is justified of Her children" (Matthew 11:19).

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57 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Do you means in terms of power, authority, and not possessing a body of flesh? Or do you mean like an inhuman God appendage in the shape of a spiritual blob that fills the universe?

Yes to the first and no to the second. I mean a being we have have no way of understanding. The idea that the Universe is filled with immortal beings ‘just like us’ is possible but but I suspect there is a lot more going on out there.

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I personally believe the Holy Spirit to be something that it doesn't make much sense to ascribe the concept of gender to, or if anything is androgynous. It is the mind and spirit of the Father and Son, and arguably also the Mother. 

"And he being the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, and having overcome, received a fulness of the glory of the Father—possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things: by whom all things were created and made, that were created and made: and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one: The Father and the Son possessing the same mind, the same wisdom, glory, power and fulness: Filling all in all—the Son being filled with the fulness of the Mind, glory and power, or, in other words, the Spirit, glory and power of the Father—possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom: sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father—a Mediator for man—being filled with the fulness of the Mind of the Father, or, in other words, the Spirit of the Father: which Spirit is shed forth upon all who believe on his name and keep his commandments: and all those who keep his commandments shall grow up from grace to grace, and become heirs of the heavenly kingdom, and joint heirs with Jesus Christ; possessing the same mind, being transformed into the same image or likeness, even the express image of him who fills all in all: being filled with the fulness of his glory, and become one in him, even as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one."

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5 hours ago, Jaydes said:

I personally believe the Holy Spirit to be something that it doesn't make much sense to ascribe the concept of gender to, or if anything is androgynous. It is the mind and spirit of the Father and Son, and arguably also the Mother. 

"And he being the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, and having overcome, received a fulness of the glory of the Father—possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things: by whom all things were created and made, that were created and made: and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one: The Father and the Son possessing the same mind, the same wisdom, glory, power and fulness: Filling all in all—the Son being filled with the fulness of the Mind, glory and power, or, in other words, the Spirit, glory and power of the Father—possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom: sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father—a Mediator for man—being filled with the fulness of the Mind of the Father, or, in other words, the Spirit of the Father: which Spirit is shed forth upon all who believe on his name and keep his commandments: and all those who keep his commandments shall grow up from grace to grace, and become heirs of the heavenly kingdom, and joint heirs with Jesus Christ; possessing the same mind, being transformed into the same image or likeness, even the express image of him who fills all in all: being filled with the fulness of his glory, and become one in him, even as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one."

If you use a quote, you should provide a link so the quote can be read in context as well as aiding someone looking for more info.

Edited by Calm
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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Jaydes said:

I personally believe the Holy Spirit to be something that it doesn't make much sense to ascribe the concept of gender to, or if anything is androgynous. It is the mind and spirit of the Father and Son, and arguably also the Mother. 

"And he being the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, and having overcome, received a fulness of the glory of the Father—possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things: by whom all things were created and made, that were created and made: and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one: The Father and the Son possessing the same mind, the same wisdom, glory, power and fulness: Filling all in all—the Son being filled with the fulness of the Mind, glory and power, or, in other words, the Spirit, glory and power of the Father—possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom: sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father—a Mediator for man—being filled with the fulness of the Mind of the Father, or, in other words, the Spirit of the Father: which Spirit is shed forth upon all who believe on his name and keep his commandments: and all those who keep his commandments shall grow up from grace to grace, and become heirs of the heavenly kingdom, and joint heirs with Jesus Christ; possessing the same mind, being transformed into the same image or likeness, even the express image of him who fills all in all: being filled with the fulness of his glory, and become one in him, even as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one."

I sort of believe that, its almost scripturally sound, except that when the Bible speak of oneness, oneness of mind and oneness of the Godhead is apparently no different than what God commands of non-gods, the people are to be as one spirit and mind with one another, no different than a husband and wife is to be one and of one mind. The body, brain, being, spirit, substance, and gender of the husband and the wife are still separate even though they are of the same mind. Oneness is aligning one's spirit and mind with another. To avoid distinction and rivalry, and to treat others no differently than you would treat yourself, and ideally be agreeable and of one accord as groups.

I am not ascribing genders to the Godhead, the scriptures are doing this. No spirit that I've ever read about is gender-less, spirits clearly have a spirit body nearly indistinguishable from your own. Spirits even wear cloths. What are they covering up? Their androgynous ken doll form?

Edited by Pyreaux
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11 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Indeed, although the word for "spirit" by itself (pneuma) is gender-neutral. Since they use gender neutral terms in the Greek, the English translation could've been either gender.

Oy vey!

Words.

The Lord was very successful at Babel, n'est-ce pas?

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54 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

I am not ascribing genders to the Godhead, the scriptures are doing this.

No, words are doing this.

The Holy Ghost is to be heard and not seen for a reason 

Edited by mfbukowski
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"GOD" is a family, a group, a plurality, a council unified by love and purpose 

The way we use the word, as LDS, COJCLDS members defines a plurality, as the word "congress" is a singular word defining a plurality.

I believe that "GOD" is a godhead, a plurality, a congress, acting as one, which to me obviously includes both male and female and is not restricted to males OR females, but necessarily includes BOTH HALVES of humanity.

They are so beyond us here on earth we cannot envision how this works without our zygote-brains assigning zygote-characteristics to them!   Yes we/they are in their image, yes we can grow up to be like them.

Beyond that the "reality" is.... beyond that.

We need to become adults and put off... lesser things.

Edited by mfbukowski
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12 hours ago, Jaydes said:

I personally believe the Holy Spirit to be something that it doesn't make much sense to ascribe the concept of gender to, or if anything is androgynous. It is the mind and spirit of the Father and Son, and arguably also the Mother. 

"And he being the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth, and having overcome, received a fulness of the glory of the Father—possessing the same mind with the Father, which mind is the Holy Spirit, that bears record of the Father and the Son, and these three are one, or in other words, these three constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things: by whom all things were created and made, that were created and made: and these three constitute the Godhead, and are one: The Father and the Son possessing the same mind, the same wisdom, glory, power and fulness: Filling all in all—the Son being filled with the fulness of the Mind, glory and power, or, in other words, the Spirit, glory and power of the Father—possessing all knowledge and glory, and the same kingdom: sitting at the right hand of power, in the express image and likeness of the Father—a Mediator for man—being filled with the fulness of the Mind of the Father, or, in other words, the Spirit of the Father: which Spirit is shed forth upon all who believe on his name and keep his commandments: and all those who keep his commandments shall grow up from grace to grace, and become heirs of the heavenly kingdom, and joint heirs with Jesus Christ; possessing the same mind, being transformed into the same image or likeness, even the express image of him who fills all in all: being filled with the fulness of his glory, and become one in him, even as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one."

I have always felt that way, thanks for sharing this.

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9 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

And you wonder why mainstream Christianity thinks y’all are weird 😁

That's kind of the thing, now this isn't Mormonism here... But I believe it, because I think there is no conflict with the doctrine/the standard works of the church. Even if it is completely true, it may never be spoken at the pulpit. We take less risks sharing our thoughts at the pulpit now days because ex-members of the future will never forgive us for expressing our primitive ideas at the pulpit.

You see this odd theme when the Davidic King is coronated, anointed a priest, and gets married to the Queen, the king became born again as the son of the Lord (2 Sa 7:2; Ps 2:7) and at the same time he is a manifestation of the Lord (1 Chr 29:20, 23; Ps 2; 11; 21:8). So, in a sense, if you are a king-priest, you become your own father.

So, the king sought the Holy Spirit of Wisdom as a bride (Wisdom of Solomon 8:2), and she is the bride of the Lord, "Give me Wisdom, the consort of your throne" (Wisdom of Solomon 9:4). His mother is the Holy Spirit and the Queen is going through the same initiation process that he is, she is anointed and born again too, her mother is the Holy Spirit, the same mother as the King, making her his spiritual sister, and she is also a manifestation of the feminine Holy Spirit of Wisdom. Like, Jewish scholars like Philo, claims in a complex allegory that all the wives of the Patriarchs were manifestations of Wisdom; Sarah was Wisdom (Philo, On Genesis 4:145) and so was Rebecca (Philo, On Genesis 4:146). So in sense, the King is marrying his spiritual mom who is manifesting inside his born again sister, who becomes his wife.

Jesus is the King of Kings and is the Lord himself, which puts it on another level. John saw a divine woman with a crown of stars, robes of the sun, the moon at her feet, and eagle's wings giving birth to a divine child. We recognize the child is Jesus (Rev 12). So, the woman is his mother, but which one? She is not described like a human, Mary didn't have a sun robe and wings. The woman of John's Revelation is Christ's other Mother, the Divine Wisdom. She went into exile during the Babylonian exile, when the Temple of Solomon, her home, was destroyed. Then there is the other woman figure that takes her place, the foreign spirit, the "Whore of Babylon" who sits on the "many waters" (Rev 17:1-5) the temple of Harod. Once the foreign female Spirit of Jerusalem is burned, the true Spirit of Jerusalem re emerges from exile, not as his mom this time, but as the "Bride of the Lamb", wearing fine linens, prepared to marry the one that rode the white horse (Rev 19:6-16). They will have a royal marriage, a temple marriage (there is no temple in the new city, but the city itself is a cube, that is because the whole city is a Holy of Holies, part of a giant temple that encompasses the world).

Edited by Pyreaux
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18 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

I've been studying this quite a bit. I think the Holy Spirit is a girl. Not only that but the Lord Jesus' sister and wife... and in a few senses, his mother because she was a secondary agent involved in the birth of Jesus. I figured that this is for some reason a controversy because we all call it a "he", like John's gospel in Greek calls it a "he" while the Greek word for "spirit" is neutral. But the Old Testament Hebrew for "Spirit" is consistently a female.

I wonder what issues the church has against it other than custom, we do believe spirits have gender. I don't recall Joseph Smith ever claiming that he ever saw the personage of the Holy Ghost. Latter-day Saints believe there is a female in the deity, Heavely Mother, and that Jesus should be married for his exaltation's sake (that doesn't have to be, he could be an exception, this isn't a doctrine).

I have pages and pages of research. Through the Bible, extra-Biblical texts, Canaanite texts, the Quran. So to start, I guess I should give this a proper "genesis". For this for those who don't know anything about it before you reject it out of hand.

The Bible contains what scholars refer to as "wisdom literature", the Book of Job, the Book of Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Song of Solomon, some of the Psalms and the Apocrypha contains the Book of Tobit, Wisdom of Solomon, the Wisdom of Ben Sira. These books are called this because a common theme in these books are references to a character called "wisdom", personified as a female, and a noticeable lack of references to Moses, the Aaronic priesthood nor the Exodus. (Why that is interesting will have to come back to). In the Wisdom of Solomon, a book that was in every Bible until the 17th century, Wisdom is the "Holy Spirit" (Wisdom of Solomon 9:17). Solomon explains that he himself is a mortal by origin and ultimate fate, yet not like other men. Though born of a noble spirit from heaven and thus bless with natural gifts, the Spirit of Wisdom can only be bestowed as a gift from God (Wisdom of Solomon 8:13). Wisdom, "passing through into holy souls from age to age, she produces friends of God and prophets" (Wisdom of Solomon 7:27).

The Holy Spirit first appears in the Bible in the Book of Genesis as a separate entity from God (Gen 1:2). The "Spirit [Ruah (H#7037) (a feminine word for) life, spirit, wind, breath]", denoting wind, yet not possessing a purely immaterial form in the late Greek and Christian sense of a spirit, but a substance having an ability to interact with matter. The Israelite conceived it as not merely a force or power, having a mind, opinion, personality and will of its own, interceding on behalf of men with its own desires for them and speaking out against the judgments of God (Leviticus Rabbah 6:1; Rom 8:26).

Like Yahweh, it goes by many other epithets "Wisdom is of many names" (Philo, All. Int. 1:43). Though, unlike El Elyon and Yahweh whose epithets are always masculine (a Lord, King or Father), and never feminine, the Ruah (a feminine noun) is always referred to by feminine epithets, words with an "[-ah]" suffix, indicating a feminine gender (Ruah (spirit), Haknah (wisdom), Shekinah, etc.). Genesis says the Ruah, a feminine word, "moved [(H#7363)]", a feminine noun meaning the Ruah is regarded as a female, and the word means she was 'fluttering' over the deep (take note: that it implies she has wings/flaps, that will be important later). The world existed "without form [(H#8414) chaotic waste]", with sea of water, a "deep [tehom (H#8415) the abyss of the sea]" (Gen 1:2), referring to both the sea of chaos and also the chaos angel/dragon of the sea. As a humanly uninhabitable world of chaotic water, full of monstrous adversaries, "whales [(H#8577) dragons, sea serpents]" (Gen 1:21). The waters of chaos are often personified as wicked spiritual beings, which had to be subdued first before the world could be "created [(H#1254) to form, to cut, to put into shape]", or remade habitable. The other Creation accounts outside of Genesis tells more varied details.

That when Yahweh began his reign as King of the divine council, or as psalms says He was "clothed" "in light" of his Kingly robe on the first day of Creation (Ps 104:1-2), He "formed" light by separating the light from the darkness (Isa 45:7), and casting that spiritual darkness into the primeval sea, and covered heaven with the firmament, a veil, to hide the heavens from those cast out below. Job says it was done by personage of the Spirit, "By his Spirit He hath garnished [(H#8235) made bright, or purified] the heavens" and in parallel, by "His hand hath formed [(H#2342) felled, made to writhe (as in pain)] the crooked [(H#1281) pierced] serpent". From within the sea the wicked spirits, the "dead [(H#7496) ghosts, shades]" under the water "formed [(H#2342) writhed]" as He stretched the north, or the heavens, over the void, shielding the heavens from sight of the those on the earth (Job 26:5-8, 12-13), then he set the beams for the water chambers and made the winds (spirits) and fires (angels) his servants, before the foundation of the soil was laid on the third day (Ps 104:1-5). All of these things were done with the Spirit of Wisdom at the Lord's side (Ps 104:24, 35). The Spirit produced the wind which held up the vault of heaven, and she walked the depths of the sea, seeking a resting place. The rest she sought would later be the garden of Eden, an arboreal sanctuary on the summit of a holy mountain (Eze 28:13-14, 18). The Temple is Wisdom's house, her rest (Prov 9:1), she found her rest in Jerusalem (Ben Sira 24:7) and lost her rest when the Temple was destroyed (1 Enoch 42). "I came forth from the mouth of the Most High and covered the earth like a mist. I dwelt in high places and my throne was in a pillar of cloud. Alone I made the circuit of heaven and have walked the depths of the abyss" (Sirach 24:24:4-6).

Indeed, the Bible says she was alone in making these things (Prov 8:27-29). She is the "breath [(H#5397) spirit, wind] of life" that came forth from Elyon (Gen 2:7; LXX Gen 2:7) that brought Adam to life (Gen 1:27; 2:7; Job 33:4; Wisdom of Solomon 9:1; 2 Enoch 30:8; Philo, De Confusion Linguarum 179; Hellenistic Synogogal Prayers 3:19; 4:7, 38; 12:36) and so is call the Spirit of Life (Job 27:3). 3rd Book of Enoch has "I commanded my Wisdom to create man" (3 Enoch 30:8). Without the Spirit all things would perish (Job 34:15; Lev 17:14; Num 18:15; Joel 2:28). She has the ability to transform dust into living things (Job 34:14; LXX, Job 34:15). The Lord sent her to create, "Thou sendest forth thy Spirit they are created" (Ps 104:30). Targums (Jewish Aramaic translations of the Torah) translates the beginning of Genesis as, "in the beginning with Wisdom the Lord created..." (Targum Neofiti and Fragment Targums, Paris BNHeb110; Vatican Ebr. 440). Also she was the Mother of the angels (Job 38:4-7; Melchizedek 17; Gospel of Philip, CG 2:3:63).

In the Book of Proverbs, the "Spirit" is the prominent character (Prov 1:23) and the Spirit is frequently called "Wisdom [Haknah (H#2451) another feminine word]". She is described like a deity, as people cry out to her (Prov 1:24-28). She is portrayed as a female companion or wife of God, who existed at his side, and even participated in the creation of the world (Prov 3:19; 8:22-34). She is from the eternal world, from "everlasting", from the "beginning" before creation of the earth (Prov 8:22f), in fact God "founded the earth by Wisdom" (Prov 3:19). He "established the world by his wisdom" (Jer 10:12). She says she stood by the Lord, as the Amon, "as one brought up [amon (H#539) master workman] with Him; and I was His daily delight, and my delights were the children of men" (Prov 8:30). As the Septuagint puts it, the Amon stood at the Lord's side as a "[harmozousa (Greek: one who joins together)]" (LXX, Prov 8:30). The word also means a "nurse" (Num 11:12; Ruth 4:6) and when used as a verb means to carry a child (Isa 60:4). At the Lord's side, she is credited as a creatrix, one that conceives or creates many things (Wisdom of Solomon 9:2, 9; Hellenistic Synogogal Prayers 3:19; 4:7, 38; 12:10). The Creation itself is described as a form of procreation (Gen 2:4). The Wisdom of Solomon says she "glorifies her noble birth by living with God, and the Lord of all loves her. For she is an initiate in the knowledge of God and an associate in all his works" (Wisdom of Solomon 8:3-4). As Philo reads it, "[Wisdom] proclaims her noble birth in that she is given to her to live with God, and the Sovereign Lord of all loved her", and claiming that Symbious here is being used in the sense of 'marital connubium' and means that she is his wife (Philo, On Cherubim 14:49). "Wisdom is My adviser" (2 Enoch 33:4). Margret Barker believes that perhaps the Amon is the "Amen" of Revelations (Rev 3:14).

This information goes on for many pages, so I'll just stop there and see what kind of problems I might have created so far.

Hebrew, Greek and Latin (as other languages) use grammatical gender for organizing nouns, and in most cases this linguistic/semantic practice has nothing to do with biological sex. So I would not 'read" too much into it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_gender

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18 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

I've been studying this quite a bit. I think the Holy Spirit is a girl.

How do you explain this then?

Quote

I spake unto him as a man speaketh; for I beheld that he was in the bform of a man; yet nevertheless, I knew that it was the Spirit of the Lord; and he spake unto me as a man speaketh with another. (1 Nephi 11:11)

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/11.11?lang=eng#10?lang=eng

 

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18 hours ago, Obeone said:

Finally a challenging problem, thank you.

Maybe its an angel

Well, Nephi is not consistant with his terms, this "Spirit of the Lord" suddenly transitions into the "angel of the Lord" (after 1 Nephi 11:21), then couldn't this simply be a regular spirit-angel/messenger that was sent by the Lord? He says the term "Holy Ghost" in this vision, not to refer to his guide, but in future events to come. Later chapters, the "angel" says to look, and then he sees the "Spirit of God" (1 Nephi 13:12) like its a different thing. Though it could be a mere difference because its a vision of the future so it could be the same person I guess.

Maybe it is the Holy Spirit

Some illusion at work, aside from the shifting imagery of the visions, there is some shapeshifting by the spirit that happens, "I beheld that he was in the form of a man; yet nevertheless, I knew that it was the Spirit of the Lord", this spirit assumed an appearance that is not instep with reality, Nephi is saying it is merely in the form of a man, but Nephi is saying he knows better that. It even gives a latter reference of how the Holy Ghost takes on other shapes the "The Holy Ghost come down out of heaven and abide upon him in the form of a dove." (1 Nephi 11:27)

Maybe it is the Spirit of the Lord-Jesus

Maybe this is one of those Angel Theophanies, like in the Bible, the Lord himself makes an appearance, but is passing himself off as an 'Angel of the Lord'. Maybe this is the Spirit of the Lord-Christ, the pre-incarnate Christ, instead of the Holy Spirit. This is an Apocalyptic vision, in John's apocalypse his "angel" guide was Christ.

How do you like my acrobatics? Entertaining?

th-2035608382.jpg

Edited by Pyreaux
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13 hours ago, Calm said:

If you use a quote, you should provide a link so the quote can be read in context as well as aiding someone looking for more info.

https://lecturesonfaith.com/5/

7 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

I sort of believe that, its almost scripturally sound, except that when the Bible speak of oneness, oneness of mind and oneness of the Godhead is apparently no different than what God commands of non-gods, the people are to be as one spirit and mind with one another, no different than a husband and wife is to be one and of one mind. The body, brain, being, spirit, substance, and gender of the husband and the wife are still separate even though they are of the same mind. Oneness is aligning one's spirit and mind with another. To avoid distinction and rivalry, and to treat others no differently than you would treat yourself, and ideally be agreeable and of one accord as groups.

I am not ascribing genders to the Godhead, the scriptures are doing this. No spirits that I've ever read about is gender-less, spirits clearly have spirit body nearly indistinguishable from your own. Spirits even wear cloths. What are they covering up? Their androgynous ken doll form?

Personally I believe the holy spirit is the mind of both the Father and the Mother, ergo androgynous. 

 

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38 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

How do you like my acrobatics? Entertaining?

Works fine for me but most words do because all words and their explanations cannot "describe what really happened" in a world in which the puny human brain works hard to do impossible things.

I don't see the need for gymnastics once one understands the words - also suspect- that philosophers provide us.

I suspect this is a bit technical for this board but if there is ONE who can make sense of it, it would be life changing.

https://www.religion-online.org/article/empirical-theology-a-revisable-tradition/

Theology becomes empirical in judging the EFFECTS of one belief over another in one's life.    Does religion A produce more good than religion B?

Then religion A is "more correct" than religion B

After sixty years studying this stuff, LDS wins imo!

The view is ultimately based on William James' notion of "Radical Empiricim"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_empiricism#:~:text=Radical empiricism is a philosophical,a place in our explanations.

See also this, sent to me by Nofear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-aP1J-BdvE

My purpose in being here is to influence others to understand how the philosophy of Pragmatism relates to Mormonism. I found the church through my philosophical understanding of Pragmatism.

 

Edited by mfbukowski
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19 minutes ago, Jaydes said:

Personally I believe the holy spirit is the mind of both the Father and the Mother, ergo androgynous. 

Unless it somehow has an independent existence of the two, would you really even label the mind combo as having “a gender”?  What ‘it’ would be is two (or more) minds, one who is male and the other female, working together somehow.  So I agree with your first option, doesn’t make sense to label with a gender anymore than it makes sense to give a family a gender.

Edited by Calm
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  • 2 weeks later...

Manifestations of the ever feminine Spirit of Wisdom.

She is Zion, the City of God, which is described as a woman (LXX, Zech 2:15; Isa 62:4-12; Jer 50:5; 4 Ezra 9f; Rev 21). The city of Jerusalem and the Land of Israel is thought to be an incarnation of the feminine Spirit of Wisdom, coined as 'Mother Zion'. After the fall of Jerusalem and Temple, Ezra is portrayed seeing a woman who was morning for having lost her son, when he calls to her to be mindful of the tragedy of "Zion the mother of us all" (4 Ezra 10:7) her face shines, she transfigures before him (4 Ezra 10:25) and the Archangel Uriel tells Ezra, "this woman whom you saw... is Zion" (4 Ezra 10:46) and explains that her "son" was born when Solomon built the temple. Zion's sons, the Davidic kings, are born in the temple (LXX, Ps 109:3). Zion is the "mother" (LXX, Ps 87:4-5) of all those "born in her" (Ps 87:4-5), mother of the fruitful (Isa 62; Rev 21:9), the mother of the city and all those in the land (Isa 66:8; Jer 15:9; 2 Kg 19:21-28). As the holy patron of the city, her home is the temple (Prov 9:1) and her bed is the Holy of Holies  (4 Ezra 9:38-10:24; Pesikta-Rabbati 26:7). The Rabbis say the "Shekinah" that her house is the Temple, her rest, so one of the Jewish names for the Temple is the "bed chamber" (Talmud, b. Ta'anit 16a; Song of Songs Rabbah 1:66) or rather  the resting place. She acts as a guardian angel over the city, and also as a one that "bringest [mebasseret (H#1309) a heraldess]" (a feminine form of the masculine word for a herald, a "mebasser (H#1319)" such as in Isaiah 52:7) who brings good tidings to Zion (Isa 40:9). By this, the feminine spirit entity has become identified with the abstraction of being the city itself or it's people within it as a whole (Isa 54:1).

When the Lord is in the city, euphemisms are created where the city is his fiance, while at other times a type of being his mother (Zeph 3:11-17; Zech 2:10-11), and as a woman in labor (Isa 66:7). Sometimes as a "virgin daughter", the "virgin daughter of Zion (Isa 37:22; Lam 2:13), the "virgin of Israel" (Jer 18:13; Amos 5:2). Foreign lands each possessed a patron virgin spirit, the "virgin daughter of Egypt" (Jer 46:11), "virgin daughter of Sidon" (Isa 23:12), and the "virgin daughter of Babel" (Isa 47:1). The Virgin Daughter of Zion sings when the Lord takes away judgment against her (Zeph 3:14-20) and the Lord renews her with love (Zeph 3:17). She as though an entity has a voice that "scorns" the king of Assyria (Isa 37:22) who wears beautiful "garments" (Isa 52:1), and precious stones (Isa 54:11-12), like a royal bride, and will give birth to a son without labor pains (Isa 66:7). Micah depicts the daughter of Zion as a woman in labor, who then flees the city into the wilderness, but the Lord will rescue her and she will return (Mic 4:8-10; Jer 4:31), she will give birth to the great shepherd (Mic 5:2-4). Like the woman in Revelations, in her linen robes returns from exile to be the "bride of the lamb" is portrayed as a representation of the people of the new city of God (Rev 21:9-14), is the same inhuman woman who possessed robes of the sun and wings that originally fled into to exile after giving birth to the divine "man child", the mother of Christ (Rev 12:1-6). This mother figure is classically identified as Mary, and the Bride as Christ's church, or the new city of Jerusalem as a collective whole. These individual interpretations are all correct, if it is in fact the spirit of Wisdom it is describing, Wisdom manifested itself in each of these things. Though there is more history being told here by the imagery, the history of the war in heaven, the divine mother of the First Born, and the Satanic figure who refuses to bow to him and is cast out for it (Rev 12:7-9). The Babylonian spirit who thereafter sat on the "many waters", in gold and precious stones, the spirit in the temple of Jerusalem, would be burned (Rev 17:1-5). The New Jerusalem is also Eden (Rev 2:7; 22:1-2, 14, 17). Mount Zion is equated with the garden of Eden (Eze 28:13-14). The Spirit of Wisdom is the city and the spirit of the temple, and she is also the elements of the Garden of Eden account and the Temple's Edenic liturgies.

She is the feminine River of Life. The Spirit is likened by Jews unto the life giving rivers that watered the Garden of Eden (Sirach 24:25-27; Gen 2:10-14), as well as the common source, a spring, a "mist [(H#108) flow]" from whose muddy banks the red clay formed Adam's golem and where he was revived (Gen 1:6-7), born, or baptized, as Solomon was in the Gihon (1 Kg 1:45). The spring becomes the four rivers of Eden, flowing in four directions, meaning Eden was on a sacred mount, an elevation (Gen 2:10). The Spirit of Wisdom is the River of Life and the Fountain of Life (Ps 36:8-9; Eze 47:1; Jer 2:13; Rev 7:17; 22:1-2), whose water, or wisdom, comes out of the mouth of the wise (Prov 10:11; 13:14; 16:22). This river is a woman who is with Yahweh (Prov 14:27; Ps 36:8-9; Jer 17:13) as a faithful wife (Prov 10:11; 13:14; 16:22). In Edenic symbols, the River of Life is portrayed as flowing from underneath the throne (Eze 10; 1 Enoch 84:3). So the Spirit of Life is seen in visions under the temple, under the cherub throne, where a life giving river flows to cleanse the land (Joel 3:18; Eze 47:8-9), and in the future temple of Jerusalem it will flow again (Zech 31:1; Rev 22:1). In Enoch's visions of heaven, Wisdom flows from a fountain that is in heaven also (1 Enoch 48:1; 49:1), which become four rivers of heaven (3 Enoch 18:19). The Jewish legend of the heavenly River of Rigyon (an odd name, likely referring to or based on the word Gihon), which is a heavenly river of fire where heavenly angels are ritually bathed in, or are born, or destroyed and reborn from elemental fire (3 Enoch 36:1-2; 40:1-4; 1 Enoch 14:19; Dan 7:10; Genesis Rabbah 78:1).

She is the Tree of Life and the Oil of Life. The enthronement ritual of the King, the light of the Menorah lead the way into the temple, and inside he is anointed with the same horn of oil the priests are anointed with (1 Chr 29:22). The ancient Hebrews who read Genesis would have recognized that the Tree of Life represented the spirit of Wisdom, the tree was the source of Adam's immortality (Gen 3:22). Wisdom is "life" (Prove 8:35), and the "tree of life to those who lay hold of her and those who hold fast are called happy [asher (H#833)]" (Prov 3:18-19) the source of the "dew" of life (Prov 3:18, 20), a symbol of resurrection (Isa 26:19). The Tree of Life produce the Oil of Life, myrrh infused olive oil by which members of the royal court of Israel were anointed to become born-again initiates into the Melchizedek order of the priesthood (Ps 110:3). Myrrh is used as the Tree of Life was thought to be some kind of "fragrant" olive tree in a grove of olive trees (Ps 32:8; Jer 11:16; Zech 4:3, 14; Rev 11:4) hence there was only olive wood used to make the interior of the temple (1 Kg 6:23, 31-33). Sirach portrays Wisdom as a tree that is planted in Jerusalem and is unlike other trees in beauty and height (Sirach 24:22) and perfumed with the incense of the Holy of Holies, and with fruit to eat (Sirach 24:22) the source of the oil of life (Sirach 24:5), the fragrant olive oil she produces is her essence which produces the oil of life, and the Spirit of Wisdom is also symbolized by the oil (Sirach 24:5). This anointing oil (Ex 28:41-43; 29:1-8; Ps 133:2) is a synthesized version of the fragrant oils of the Tree of Life, made of olive oil, cinnamon and myrrh (Ex 30:23-25) that was stored in the Ark, and was applied to the head of the priestly messiahs "between his eyelids" (Talmud, b. Horayoth 12a). This was thought to open his eyes, giving sight, spiritual sight, prophecies, dreams, visions, the signs of the royal priesthood (Joel 2:28; Ac 2:17). Anointing the ancient priest-kings made them see (Rev 3:18; 11:4; Prov 3:21). The anointing was the source by which all knowledge was obtained (1 John 2:20, 27), and "life" also came be the "savor [fragrance]" in oil of the tree of "life unto life" (2 Cor 2:14, 16). As Isaiah tells of the seven gifts of the Spirit that will rest on the future messiah, take note of the 'fragrance' (Isa 11:2-3).

She is the Tree of Knowledge. Although Eve ate from the forbidden fruit of the Tree of Knowledge, the Jews think the Spirit of Wisdom had been both trees. As "wisdom" can come in the form of simply knowledge normally possessed and reserved for the god, the elohim-angels (Prov 9:10; 30:1). Knowledge thus is related to wisdom, and it can be seen as destructive (1 Cor 8:1). Oils of the Tree of Knowledge came in its fruit were, these oils were "pleasant to the eye" to "make one wise" granting Eve the secret knowledge of the elohim-angels (Gen 2:6-7). Hence, Jews say the Spirit was thought to be both the tree of life and the tree of knowledge/death (Prov 5:5; 8:35-36). Sometimes, Jews compared her to the Torah, the Law (Ben Sira 24:30-36). Like the Ark of the Covenant which contained the Law of Moses became a source of both death (2 Sam 6:6), but also new life, the dead resurrect (Num 17:8; Heb 9:4) and fertility to the barren, fake golden trees bore real fruit (Talmud, y. Yoma 4:4). The Enochian account identifies the the receiving of the Spirit of Wisdom as the Tree of Knowledge/Wisdom, "The tree of Wisdom from which your old father and age mother [Adam and Eve], they who are your precursors, ate and came to know wisdom; and (consequently) their eyes were opened and they realized they were naked and (so) they were expelled from the garden." (1 Enoch 32:6).

 She is the Bread of Life. Adam was to "in sorrow... eat bread" (Gen 3:17-19). Proverbs speaks of Wisdom's Table, "Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled. Forsake the foolish, and live, and go in the way of understanding." (Prov 9:5-6). This is the Shewbread. It was the ordinance of Melchizedek to offer "bread and wine" (Gen 14:18). The Rabbah Midrash, the "Great" Jewish Commentaries, speak of this event, saying this was specifically the Bread of the Presence that Melchizedek was offering Abraham, "Melchizedek instructed Abraham in the laws of the priesthood, the bread alluding to the bread of the Presence and the wine to libations (Genesis Rabbah XLIII:6). The bread of the Tabernacle by which Wisdom was imparted "The House of Wisdom is the tabernacle, and Wisdom's table is the bread of the Presence and wine" (Leviticus Rabbah 11:9). Philo, who is from a priestly family agrees, that normal hospitality was bread and water, and that to mention of "bread and wine" is to refer to the Temple bread and wine, "Let Melchizedek offer wine instead of water" (Philo, Allegorical Interpretations 3:82). Ben Sira portrays Wisdom in the temple as a High Priest (Ben Sira 24:10) and also food, "Those who eat of me will hunger for more" (Ben Sira 24:21). Christians are promised that they can partake of heavenly food, from the Tree of Life, which is by the River of Life (Rev 2:7; 22:14).

She is the Robes of Resurrection. What the early Christian Hymns called it the "garment of the spirit" (Odes of Solomon 25), the Christian baptismal white robe represented "Adam's coat" (Vellian, ed. Studies on Syria Baptismal Rites, p3, 14). Adam was given his coat of lamb skin by God (Gen 3:21). Linen robes worn by the High Priests are like those worn by the angels, as that is what they envision they have become, and are what the Christians wore after their baptism, as new born angels, the new Sons of God (Ezek 9:2; Dan 10:5; 1 Enoch 87:2; 90:21-22; 2 Enoch 22:8, 10; Ascension of Isaiah 8:14-15; 9:8-9; Rev 4:4; 7:9). The Spirit appears to manifest itself is described in a number of differing, almost contrary, ways. She is can be describes as "in" someone or "filled" with it (Ex 31:3; Lk 1:15), sometimes she is poured on (Prov 3:27; Joel 2:28), and at other times she "clothes" someone. Like Gideon, "The Spirit of the Lord came upon [(H#3847) to put on a garment, or clothe] Gideon" (Jdg 6:34), Zechariah, son of Jehoiadah the priest (2 Chr 24:20) and Amasal when he swore to King David (1 Chr 12:18). These are the white linen High Priestly robes (2 Chr 6:4) which endowed the Kings (1 Chr 15:27; Mt 6:29; Lk 12:27). Though it maybe the same thing, only that the oil of the Spirit is poured on, and a robe of the Spirit is put on.

She was the Spouse of the Royal Priests. Solomon explains that the Spirit of Wisdom has to be bestowed and a gift from God in what he describes as a marriage with it. Then it will be his constant companion and guide, teaching him heavenly secrets and giving him "immortality" (Wisdom of Solomon 8:13). Philo, claims in a complex allegory that all the wives of the Patriarchs were manifestations of Wisdom; Sarah was Wisdom (Philo, On Genesis 4:145) and so was Rebecca (Philo, On Genesis 4:146). Adam was married in the Garden Temple (Gen 2:23-24), where upon he renames his wife a regal name, Eve, because she was the "Mother of all living", a Wisdom title (Gen 3:20). The original Abrahamic religion had a different institution of marriage than the post-exile Jews practiced. Described as a "Wife-Sistership", with the "sister" portion having nothing to do with the Matriarch's blood ties. Abraham tells people Sarah is his sister twice (Gen 12:13-19; 20:1-8), not because she is his half-sister, as Isaac calls Rebecca his sister also (Gen 26:6-11). The Jews explain that it was because they were married to Wisdom, "Say unto Wisdom, you are my sister" (Prov 7:4). By their royal marriage, they became brother and sister, but not literally, this concept was the same in Egypt, Assyria, Persia (Josephus, Ant 12:2:6 [51]) and Mesopotamia and ancient royal ways, "my sister, my love, my dove, my undefiled" (SoS 5:2) they become "one", pressed upon each other, and sealed, "set me as a seal upon your heart" (SoS 8:6).

The current Bible seems to safeguard the details concerning patriarchal-royal marriages, but does indicate that it promoted rain fall and fertility in the land. For the Davidic Kings, it occurred during the autumn-time, the original new year, in an event referred to as the Kingship Festival, only mentioned as a time when the King read the law (Dt 31:9ff; Neh 8). The festival celebrated that Lord was being enthroned as king, but through the mortal king as his vessel, in procession from a river where he is baptized, and into the Temple to be anointed and endowed, and to conclude the king making ritual there was a sacred marriage, and this brought rain (Zech 14:16-18; Ps 29; 68; 84; 93; 1 Enoch 10). The king was a Melchizedek High Priest and his role was to make expiation/atonement for the land (Dt 32:43). He then returns with judgments. Psalm for Solomon depicts him as a messianic figure, his temple service promotes rain and fertility in the land (Psa 72:6, 16). The Marriage Psalm describes the king's priestly marriage, the king's garments smell of the anointing myrrh oil (Psa 45; Patai, On Jewish Folklore 135; Roland de Vanx, Ancient Israel [1961] 1:109). When Enoch's becomes an ancient royal high priest, the order of events includes entering the Holy of Holies to intercede on behalf of sinners (the fallen angels), returning with judgment, then concludes with fertility and prosperity in the land (1 Enoch 10; 80:2-8). Because the autumn new year celebrated the re-"birth" of the king became part of the reason Christ's birth is celebrated in the autumn before the Christian new year, and why the Armenian Church celebrates Christmas on the Jewish Day of Atonement (E. Werner, The Sacred Bridge [1959], p41, 49n, 79).

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I will break here, As I said there is many pages of this kind of stuff.

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