New Church Policy?

[Scott Lloyd]

9 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

They new way that they and them are being used to refer to one individual I find confusing.

It’s often indicative of lazy writing. In most instances there are ways to recast the sentence to avoid it. 

[Scott Lloyd]

5 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

That’s just it. It’s not new. 

It’s new in the sense that it fell out of favor for a long time but has recently been revived. 

[mfbukowski]

11 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

They new way that they and them are being used to refer to one individual I find confusing.

I'm glad them said that.

I like them's post, them should make more of them.

😎🤪

[jkwilliams]

Just now, Scott Lloyd said:

It’s new in the sense that it fell out of favor for a long time but has recently been revived. 

It may have fallen out of favor among “professionals” when rigid style guides were emerging, but it’s never stopped being used in ordinary speech and writing. I think it’s great that our language is flexible and evolving. As George Bennion, my grammar professor, said at BYU, “There are no rules in English, only conventions. Those who demand rules are going to have a hell of a time getting through life.”

[ksfisher]

11 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

That’s just it. It’s not new. 

New is relative.  New to me.

[jkwilliams]

Just now, ksfisher said:

New is relative.  New to me.

I think what is new is the cultural implications of that usage, which I suspect is behind the vehement opposition. 

[Scott Lloyd]

9 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I'm glad them said that.

I like them's post, them should make more of them.

😎🤪

The real awkwardness emerges when the writer or speaker, for the sake of consistency, is obliged to refer to a single person as “themselves” — or, even worse, “themself.” 😂 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[mfbukowski]

11 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It’s often indicative of lazy writing. In most instances there are ways to recast the sentence to avoid it. 

It also signals their virtue though, as being politically correct, to not recast the sentence.  It show them to be a flag bearer for the movement.

Edited April 28, 2022 by mfbukowski

[ksfisher]

2 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

it’s never stopped being used in ordinary speech and writing.

Do you have any examples?  I can't figure out how to use they and them to refer to a singular individual.  Maybe I do and just don't realize it.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 minute ago, jkwilliams said:

I think what is new is the cultural implications of that usage, which I suspect is behind the vehement opposition. 

I was opposed to it even before the woke juggernaut came to the fore. 

[jkwilliams]

Just now, ksfisher said:

Do you have any examples?  I can't figure out how to use they and them to refer to a singular individual.  Maybe I do and just don't realize it.

This might help. 

https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

If it’s good enough for the OED, it’s good enough for me. 

Here’s an example off the top of my head: “It’s hilarious when someone calls you out by name to let you know they aren’t responding to you.”

[Nofear]

35 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

And I dare say a good many things were done centuries ago that we’ve long since jettisoned — with good reason. 

Like not using the Oxford comma and double space after periods. Alas, vestiges of these archaic practices still persist.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Nofear

[jkwilliams]

3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I was opposed to it even before the woke juggernaut came to the fore. 

I would have agreed with you 25 years ago, but language and circumstances change. I know you dislike that usage. We just disagree. That’s all. 

[jkwilliams]

3 minutes ago, Nofear said:

Like not using the Oxford comma and double space after periods. Alas, vestiges of these archaic practices still persist.

I like the Oxford comma, but I’m not obsessive about it. And I double space after a period when I’m using my mom’s 1953 Remington typewriter. 

[Scott Lloyd]

6 minutes ago, Nofear said:

Like not using the Oxford comma and double space after periods. Alas, vestiges of these archaic practices still persist.

The double space after a period is indeed archaic, a relic of the days of typewriters, when monospaced type made it conducive to readability. 
 

But not using the Oxford comma is still very much accepted — and even preferred by many. Prominent style guides such as the Associated Press Stylebook forbid the Oxford comma in most usages. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[california boy]

22 hours ago, Raingirl said:

You’re very much into victim-blaming, except when you perceive yourself to be the victim. 
 

A 10 year old girl was raped and murdered in Wisconsin this week. The perpetrator admitted these were his intentions “from the get-go”. Do you blame her as well? Because, as you say, she could have “probably stopped the behavior”. 

 

21 hours ago, california boy said:

That is insulting and absolutely false.  Reporting someone that is sexually assaulting you is NOT blaming the victim.  I can not even see how you got the idea I was blaming the victim.  So CFR exactly where I blame the victim for ANYTHING??????????

This is such a insulting accusation.  You should be ashamed to lobby such a false allegation.

I see that you have completely ignored my CFR.  So I am bringing it to your attention one more time.  Apologize for the attack you wrote about me or show proof of your comment.

When people hurl personal attacks that are completely unwarranted, they should be called out. Maybe in the future you will be more careful about slinging false personal accusations.

[Scott Lloyd]

8 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I would have agreed with you 25 years ago, but language and circumstances change. I know you dislike that usage. We just disagree. That’s all. 

So you’ve been influenced by wokeness, then? 

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

So you’ve been influenced by wokeness, then? 

So, yours is a principled stand on language, but I’ve given in to wokeness. 

😂😂😂😂

Edited April 28, 2022 by jkwilliams

[Scott Lloyd]

17 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

This might help. 

https://public.oed.com/blog/a-brief-history-of-singular-they/

If it’s good enough for the OED, it’s good enough for me. 

Here’s an example off the top of my head: “It’s hilarious when someone calls you out by name to let you know they aren’t responding to you.”

Here’s a way to recast it to avoid the problematic singular they:

”It’s hilarious when someone calls you out by name to let you know you are being ignored.” 
 

Or, following the older convention: “It’s hilarious when someone calls you out by name to let you know he is ignoring you.”
 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[ksfisher]

14 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Here’s an example off the top of my head: “It’s hilarious when someone calls you out by name to let you know they aren’t responding to you.”

You're right, I would say it that way.

[jkwilliams]

Just now, ksfisher said:

You're right, I would say it that way.

So would I. But I’m woke. 😂

[california boy]

15 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

The 'people running the gym' were the university. It was about 6am, and I had gained entry by swiping my student card. I had been in a computer lab literally all night working on an assignment. (The lab, by the way, was also unattended, and I likewise had access to it by means of my student card.) As I made perfectly clear when I related my experience, I was completely alone at the time.

No, which is why I didn't (a fact you seem to overlook?). But I was prepared to either flee or fight (in that order) if necessary.

Of course. Because a man who followed me from the showers to one bathroom and then to a completely different bathroom just needed a bit of verbal clarity that his behaviour wasn't welcome ...  You do realise, right, that threatening to report a person who is only two metres away can increase the likelihood of attack?

'Any time someone defaults to questioning what a victim could have done differently to prevent a crime, he or she is participating, to some degree, in the culture of victim blaming'.

'Another issue that contributes to our tendency to blame the victim is known as the hindsight bias. When we look at an event that happened in the past, we have a tendency to believe that we should have been able to see the signs and predict the outcome. This hindsight makes it seem like the victims of a crime, accident, or another form of misfortune should have been able to predict and prevent whatever problem might have befallen them'.

The discussion that we have been having was about the necessity of following Elder Packer's advice about decking someone that does something sexually inappropriate.  I wasn't blaming you for anything you did or didn't do.  I was only pointing out the alternatives to decking someone.  That is a huge difference.  

Do you see anything in my post that suggests that you were at fault for the inappropriate advances you unfortunate encounter??

 

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

So, yours is a principled stand on language, but I’ve given in to wokeness. 

😂😂😂😂

Pretty much. 
 

Do you deny it? 

[jkwilliams]

Just now, Scott Lloyd said:

Here’s a way to recast it to avoid the problematic singular they

”It’s hilarious when someone calls you out by name to let you know you are being ignored.” 
 

Oh, sure, the passive voice is preferable. 😳

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Oh, sure, the passive voice is preferable. 😳

In this instance, very much so. 
 

The passive voice is not a sin.