Women and the Priesthood From the Catholic Perspective

[Rivers]

Catholics, like us, have a male-only priesthood.  I’m curious to hear from any Catholics on this board the reasoning for women not holding the priesthood in their church.

[MiserereNobis]

Pope St. John Paul II wrote an apostolic letter in 1994 clarifying and explaining why: Ordinatio Sacerdotalis

I highly recommend reading it. It's really quite short.

The main idea is that Christ chose only men as apostles. He refutes the idea that this was based on the prevailing social norms of the time, since Christ is God and is fully free and sovereign and would not bend His will in the order of His Church to social norms. Christ had no problem breaking social norms, even with His interaction with women, so it seems silly to suggest that He followed social norms in something as important as who could be a priest and act In Persona Christi ("in the person of Christ," a key concept for Catholic priesthood).

Edited March 11, 2022 by MiserereNobis

[Tacenda]

Bumping this up with this c/p I just saw...interesting thought at this Easter time. 

[mfbukowski]

On 3/11/2022 at 10:44 AM, MiserereNobis said:

...In Persona Christi ("in the person of Christ," a key concept for Catholic priesthood).

I think we could learn a lot from studying this idea.

[telnetd]

On 3/11/2022 at 1:44 PM, MiserereNobis said:

Pope St. John Paul II wrote an apostolic letter in 1994 clarifying and explaining why: Ordinatio Sacerdotalis

I highly recommend reading it. It's really quite short.

Are Catholic women excluded from the holy/royal priesthood Peter wrote about?

1 Peter 2:5, 9 - Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to
offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. But ye are a chosen generation,
a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of
him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

[Saint Bonaventure]

30 minutes ago, telnetd said:

Are Catholic women excluded from the holy/royal priesthood Peter wrote about?

1 Peter 2:5, 9 - Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to
offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. But ye are a chosen generation,
a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of
him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

Catholic women--indeed, all Christian women--are not excluded from the priesthood Peter wrote about. 

[3DOP]

7 hours ago, telnetd said:

Are Catholic women excluded from the holy/royal priesthood Peter wrote about?

1 Peter 2:5, 9 - Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to
offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. But ye are a chosen generation,
a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of
him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

You watch telnetd. Miserere will make the distinction between royal and sacerdotal priesthood. All are called to make sacrifice, men and women. All Christians are called to act as priests...sacrificing, making intercession. But few men and no women are called to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Edited April 22, 2022 by 3DOP

[MiserereNobis]

7 hours ago, Saint Bonaventure said:

Catholic women--indeed, all Christian women--are not excluded from the priesthood Peter wrote about. 

 

28 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

You watch telnetd. Miserere will make the distinction between royal and sacerdotal priesthood. All are called to make sacrifice, men and women. All Christians are called to act as priests...sacrificing, making intercession. But most men and no women are called to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

I don’t need to post because both of you dealt with it perfectly. Thanks! 😊

[telnetd]

On 4/21/2022 at 10:41 PM, 3DOP said:

But few men and no women are called to offer the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

@MiserereNobis @Saint Bonaventure

For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on 
the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke 
it, and said, "This is my body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."  
In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new 
covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."  
For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's 
death until he comes" (1 Corinthians 11:23-26).

So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of 
the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my 
flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last 
day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my 
flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent 
me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live 
because of me." (John 6:53-57). 

Consider also that these few men partake in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Why are parishioners who don't drink the wine (the blood) denied eternal life?  Aside
from them not having eternal life because they do not drink the blood, what does it
mean that they don't proclaim the Lord's death till he comes because they do not drink
the cup?

[MiserereNobis]

1 hour ago, telnetd said:

Why are parishioners who don't drink the wine (the blood) denied eternal life?  

They are not denied eternal life. The Host (bread) contains the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ. By receiving the Host, the communicant is receiving both the Body and Blood.

In fact, in the traditional mass, only the priest drinks the wine. Parishioners only receive the bread. The purpose of this is to teach through the ritual that the bread does contain the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. The change in the new mass to offering parishioners the wine has led to confusion on this issue.

[telnetd]

On 4/24/2022 at 3:47 PM, MiserereNobis said:

By receiving the Host, the communicant is receiving both the Body and Blood.

Thank you. I never heard of this.  Do you have an official Vatican teaching about it?

[MiserereNobis]

1 hour ago, telnetd said:

Thank you. I never heard of this.  Do you have an official Vatican teaching about it?

It was affirmed at the Council of Trent (13th session) in response to protestant heresies that denied it:

Quote

CANON III.-If any one denieth, that, in the venerable sacrament of the Eucharist, the whole Christ is contained under each species, and under every part of each species, when separated; let him be anathema.

Species here means the bread and wine. So the whole Christ is in the bread and the whole Christ is in the wine.

The catechism paraphrases this canon:

Quote

1377 The Eucharistic presence of Christ begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the Eucharistic species subsist. Christ is present whole and entire in each of the species and whole and entire in each of their parts, in such a way that the breaking of the bread does not divide Christ.

 

[SuzyG]

Please forgive me for commenting on this post when I really want to respond to an old post from 2017 which is closed. I googled Mormon Deadhead and found this site with an old Grateful Dead thread. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only Mormon Deadhead in the world. I wish I could meet more. Can we start a new thread? I'm brand new to Mormon Dialog & Discussion.

[MiserereNobis]

4 minutes ago, SuzyG said:

Please forgive me for commenting on this post when I really want to respond to an old post from 2017 which is closed. I googled Mormon Deadhead and found this site with an old Grateful Dead thread. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only Mormon Deadhead in the world. I wish I could meet more. Can we start a new thread? I'm brand new to Mormon Dialog & Discussion.

Hey now fellow head! I’m not LDS, but there are LDS deadheads here. @pogiis one. 
 

I suggest starting a thread in social hall (I think as a new member you can do that) and see who comes out of the woodwork. 

[mfbukowski]

6 minutes ago, SuzyG said:

Please forgive me for commenting on this post when I really want to respond to an old post from 2017 which is closed. I googled Mormon Deadhead and found this site with an old Grateful Dead thread. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only Mormon Deadhead in the world. I wish I could meet more. Can we start a new thread? I'm brand new to Mormon Dialog & Discussion.

Sure, welcome!

I think you are supposed to first post 25 times in the "social" section of this forum 

But go for it! If you are breaking rules the mods are quite gentle to newbies

 

[mfbukowski]

8 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Hey now fellow head! I’m not LDS, but there are LDS deadheads here. @pogiis one. 
 

I suggest starting a thread in social hall (I think as a new member you can do that) and see who comes out of the woodwork. 

Yep that's it!  I'm not a registered deadhead  but I am part of the larger tribe of strangers in a VERY strange land.

 

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by mfbukowski

[Calm]

5 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Sure, welcome!

I think you are supposed to first post 25 times in the "social" section of this forum 

But go for it! If you are breaking rules the mods are quite gentle to newbies

 

Doesn’t have to be 25 times in the Social Hall, just tends to be easier there (already a number of threads for small talk and just fun, can start your own threads there right off).

Edited April 29, 2022 by Calm

[SuzyG]

6 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Hey now fellow head! I’m not LDS, but there are LDS deadheads here. @pogiis one. 
 

I suggest starting a thread in social hall (I think as a new member you can do that) and see who comes out of the woodwork. 

Thank you so much! So you are not LDS, but quite active on this site? I will start a new thread!

[SuzyG]

22 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Yep that's it!  I'm not a registered deadhead  but I am part of the larger tribe of strangers in a VERY strange land.

 

 

So are you an active Mormon and Deadhead? Is it wrong to ask where people live in this forum?

[SuzyG]

23 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Hey now fellow head! I’m not LDS, but there are LDS deadheads here. @pogiis one. 
 

I suggest starting a thread in social hall (I think as a new member you can do that) and see who comes out of the woodwork. 

I'm sorry if I'm asking too much, but what makes you so active on a Mormon forum if you are not Mormon? Also, how would I get to chat with @pogi if I'm new here? I clicked on his profile, but can't message. Is there a learning curve with this forum? I'm a bit confused. I guess I'm used to facebook! Can I ask you what your first Dead show was? Do you see Dead and Co? Thank you, sorry if I'm asking too much.

[mfbukowski]

56 minutes ago, SuzyG said:

So are you an active Mormon and Deadhead? Is it wrong to ask where people live in this forum?

No, just an old hippie/yippie.

Yes. Active

Most folks are in Utah. But from all over US and several international. I'm from California. La la land

 

Edited April 29, 2022 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

16 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

No, just an old hippie/yippie.

Yes. Active

Most folks are in Utah. But from all over US and several international. I'm from California. La la land

 

Really we are supposed to put social stuff in the social forum, this thread is about women and the priesthood

 

 

[MiserereNobis]

1 hour ago, SuzyG said:

I'm sorry if I'm asking too much, but what makes you so active on a Mormon forum if you are not Mormon? Also, how would I get to chat with @pogi if I'm new here? I clicked on his profile, but can't message. Is there a learning curve with this forum? I'm a bit confused. I guess I'm used to facebook! Can I ask you what your first Dead show was? Do you see Dead and Co? Thank you, sorry if I'm asking too much.

It's ok. You're new, so you're limited in what you can do. Once you reach 25 points you'll be able to message people, start threads in this forum, and react to posts. One quick way to do that is to post in some of the pinned threads in social hall.

I'll answer your question about why I'm here since I'm Catholic and not LDS. The other Dead related stuff will need to stay in the social hall thread you started so as not to derail this thread.

I was friends with an LDS family and that initially piqued my interest in the religion. I was also interested in religion in general and was intrigued by the American-ness of what I saw in your faith. I joined here almost 10 years ago to learn more and to share about Catholicism (I'm a convert to Catholicism from atheism via psychedelic spirituality and the Native American Church).

There's another Catholic poster, 3DOP, who's been around a long time (20 years?) through the various iterations of this board. We're both traditional Catholics and, believe it or not, he's been to a couple of Dead shows.

When I first started posting, there was a lot more non-LDS posters questioning/attacking the LDS faith. Now it's mainly arguments between members (some current, some former). I like poking around now because I feel like I know these people and have learned a lot about what it means to be LDS. There's also threads about Catholicism, like this one, so it's nice to answer questions. Obviously I don't believe in the claims of the LDS faith, but I don't attack it, just like the LDS folk here don't believe Catholicism and (mainly) don't attack it. We all seem to get along. The board has good moderation, too, so things tend to stay civil, which I VERY much appreciate.

Welcome and enjoy!

[SuzyG]

16 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

It's ok. You're new, so you're limited in what you can do. Once you reach 25 points you'll be able to message people, start threads in this forum, and react to posts. One quick way to do that is to post in some of the pinned threads in social hall.

I'll answer your question about why I'm here since I'm Catholic and not LDS. The other Dead related stuff will need to stay in the social hall thread you started so as not to derail this thread.

I was friends with an LDS family and that initially piqued my interest in the religion. I was also interested in religion in general and was intrigued by the American-ness of what I saw in your faith. I joined here almost 10 years ago to learn more and to share about Catholicism (I'm a convert to Catholicism from atheism via psychedelic spirituality and the Native American Church).

There's another Catholic poster, 3DOP, who's been around a long time (20 years?) through the various iterations of this board. We're both traditional Catholics and, believe it or not, he's been to a couple of Dead shows.

When I first started posting, there was a lot more non-LDS posters questioning/attacking the LDS faith. Now it's mainly arguments between members (some current, some former). I like poking around now because I feel like I know these people and have learned a lot about what it means to be LDS. There's also threads about Catholicism, like this one, so it's nice to answer questions. Obviously I don't believe in the claims of the LDS faith, but I don't attack it, just like the LDS folk here don't believe Catholicism and (mainly) don't attack it. We all seem to get along. The board has good moderation, too, so things tend to stay civil, which I VERY much appreciate.

Welcome and enjoy!

Gosh, thank you so much for your very helpful answer! Thank you for taking the time! I thought this forum was mostly active LDS members. Very good to know what you've explained. I have great respect for the Catholic church. I know some amazing very devout and admirable Catholics. I have marched in Pro Life parades with some. I'm a big Matt Walsh fan too. I genuinely believe in the restored Gospel and Priesthood, and the Book of Mormon, so that's what makes me true blue Mormon. Thanks so much again for your help!!!!

[SuzyG]

18 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

No, just an old hippie/yippie.

Yes. Active

Most folks are in Utah. But from all over US and several international. I'm from California. La la land

 

I'm in LA too! Do you go to any shows?