The Nehor Posted January 15, 2022 Posted January 15, 2022 3 hours ago, rongo said: They still have the guy get up to announce that the Church passed its audit (whew! On the edge of our seat, on pins and needles). I don't think it was because of that. It coincided perfectly with when the rate of growth slowed to near zero. And, convert baptisms were dropping (I think we only had 90,000 last year) from the steady 300,000 or so every time they announced it. I think it was because they didn't want to announce numbers audibly. Like the gospel topics essays, they are eventually published, and you can find them, but they aren't showcased and emphasized. I expect that to go away soon and instead be posted as a statement with the stats. I wanted that job so I could drop a bombshell. “We discovered that, without their knowledge, the Church leadership has been replaced by pod people who are spending all tithing funds on collectibles to take back to their home planet. Mostly beanie babies.” 2
why me Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/15/2022 at 1:49 AM, sunstoned said: There have been many policy changes in the church. The latest being the walking back of the POX. And that one was supposedly a revelation. The church survived just fine. I think that this is much more serious. It would be extremely difficult for the church to authorize a temple marriage for anything other than a woman and a man. If they did change their family outlook they would seem to have a become a rather liberal protestant church. I think that this is sink or swim time. They would need to stand firm by that proclamation. There seems to be much gender chaos at the moment in the western world. 2
why me Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/13/2022 at 2:23 PM, The Nehor said: That is a bad reason to not change it even if it is true. Would you want our leadership to compare the numbers on how many people would leave if we did or did not change it and make a decision based on the results? Jesus might have had more followers and not had to ask “Will you also go away,” if he were inclined to alter the gospel to suit the audience. If the church goes with the gender flow and issues a change to the proclamation, it would experience a huge problem throughout the world. One might has well be a protestant. One would have a much easier life time wise. 1
The Nehor Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 33 minutes ago, why me said: If the church goes with the gender flow and issues a change to the proclamation, it would experience a huge problem throughout the world. One might has well be a protestant. One would have a much easier life time wise. I think this hinges on whether God commands it or not. 3
carbon dioxide Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/15/2022 at 9:29 AM, rongo said: They still have the guy get up to announce that the Church passed its audit (whew! On the edge of our seat, on pins and needles). I don't think it was because of that. It coincided perfectly with when the rate of growth slowed to near zero. And, convert baptisms were dropping (I think we only had 90,000 last year) from the steady 300,000 or so every time they announced it. I think it was because they didn't want to announce numbers audibly. Like the gospel topics essays, they are eventually published, and you can find them, but they aren't showcased and emphasized. I think it is fine that convert baptisms are going down. The scriptures state that has to happen at some point so that the Lord responds by pulling the missionaries from nations and starts the preaching of new sermons of destruction. The whole climate change issue is very consistent with conditions that will be present in the last days. The political divisions and polarization are consistent with last day issues. More people are speaking about civil war in the US coming. Church leaders in the 19th century spoke of internal wars in the US that would be worse than the Civil War. The trend lines are all in the right direction for the church. Things look bad in the moment but everything is proceeding as foretold. The long term prognosis for the Church and Zion is really good. The long term prognosis for the secular world and Babylon is very bad. 1
carbon dioxide Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 I don't see why the Church has to give any new guidance on gay dating. They have to live in the same boundaries as heterosexual people in regards to the law of Chastity. Nobody is exempt from the law. 3
Tacenda Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 1 hour ago, why me said: I think that this is much more serious. It would be extremely difficult for the church to authorize a temple marriage for anything other than a woman and a man. If they did change their family outlook they would seem to have a become a rather liberal protestant church. I think that this is sink or swim time. They would need to stand firm by that proclamation. There seems to be much gender chaos at the moment in the western world. I honestly don't believe that would even have to happen. I believe the church could just let a member marry in a SSM w/o getting ex'd. Do you see gays asking to be married in the temple? I haven't, maybe they want to. But doubt it, because they know that the highest tier in the CK is about creating worlds and spirits by way of a man and woman.
rongo Posted January 16, 2022 Author Posted January 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: I don't see why the Church has to give any new guidance on gay dating. They have to live in the same boundaries as heterosexual people in regards to the law of Chastity. Nobody is exempt from the law. Not really. Marriage doesn't make sex "authorized" for gays, like it does for straights under LDS understanding. And non-petting DA is okay for straight dating, but isn't for gay dating. I don't think "it's the same rules for everybody" is a very good talking point. The rules are different, but the Church hasn't directly addressed it. I think it should. 2
Tacenda Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) https://www.instagram.com/davidarchie/ Maybe you have to have Instagram to listen. Maybe it deserves it's own thread, but David Archuletta's recent Instagram has him coming out much stronger. And there's a post I read that he may be appearing on MS's. In part of his statement he mentions something very important. It's not about only sex. Do heterosexuals get married entirely for sex? Maybe it happens to those that want it and want to wait till marriage perhaps. But what he said is very important for people to understand about gays. They are just like you and I that are heterosexual. They want a partner for life if possible. And they even want to make it permanent, oh my! He's even mentioning the heterosexuals that are married w/o children, should they be married still? What about single parents, how come we have compassion for them? But with LGBTQ where is the compassion for them? Edited January 16, 2022 by Tacenda
teddyaware Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I honestly don't believe that would even have to happen. I believe the church could just let a member marry in a SSM w/o getting ex'd. Do you see gays asking to be married in the temple? I haven't, maybe they want to. But doubt it, because they know that the highest tier in the CK is about creating worlds and spirits by way of a man and woman. As if temple marriage wouldn’t be the obvious next step on the list to apply pressure for change after the Church first capitulates on civil marriage. The gay LDS community wouldn’t stop at civil marriage anymore than the gay community at large accepted civil unions as an acceptable substitute for actual legal marriage. Edited January 16, 2022 by teddyaware 3
The Nehor Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 1 minute ago, teddyaware said: As if temple marriage wouldn’t be the obvious next step on the list to apply pressure for change after the Church first capitulates on civil marriage. The gay LDS community wouldn’t stop at civil marriage anymore than the gay community at large accepted civil unions as an acceptable substitute for actual legal marriage. You are talking about two different forums. One is the religious acceptance of something by a specific denomination and the other is the legal acceptance of something by a government responsive (directly and indirectly) to various social forces. Trying to draw a slippery slope comparison from one to the other is a stretch. 1
teddyaware Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 27 minutes ago, The Nehor said: You are talking about two different forums. One is the religious acceptance of something by a specific denomination and the other is the legal acceptance of something by a government responsive (directly and indirectly) to various social forces. Trying to draw a slippery slope comparison from one to the other is a stretch. You don’t honestly believe that if the Church allowed for civil gay marriage that there wouldn’t be continued tremendous pressure from the LDS gay community to push mightily for the ultimate goal of gay temple marriage? Really? If I were a gambling man, I’d confidently and serenely bet big bucks that that’s exactly what would happen. 1
Tacenda Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 10 minutes ago, teddyaware said: You don’t honestly believe that if the Church allowed for civil gay marriage that there wouldn’t be continued tremendous pressure from the LDS gay community to push mightily for the ultimate goal of gay temple marriage? Really? If I were a gambling man, I’d confidently and serenely bet big bucks that that’s exactly what would happen. Even if they did, which I bet they wouldn't, the church is in a country that allows religious freedom on how they conduct their business. Is anyone allowed to go to a Freemasonry establishment and go through their rituals, I'll say not.
Fether Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 18 minutes ago, Tacenda said: which I bet they wouldn't Lol 2
The Nehor Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, teddyaware said: You don’t honestly believe that if the Church allowed for civil gay marriage that there wouldn’t be continued tremendous pressure from the LDS gay community to push mightily for the ultimate goal of gay temple marriage? Really? If I were a gambling man, I’d confidently and serenely bet big bucks that that’s exactly what would happen. Of course they would but the difference is that the public has more influence to make such a slope a reality when dealing with a government where they get a say in selecting leaders while the apostles can say “this far and no further”. It won’t stop people agitating for change but I don’t believe the apostles knuckle under to public pressure. Well, unless God lets them despite prophetic warning that this is a bad idea. We could see Samuel and the demand for a king I suppose but it will be distinct as something God grudgingly allows and I expect the apostles would make it clear that is the case if it comes to that. Edited January 16, 2022 by The Nehor 1
why me Posted January 16, 2022 Posted January 16, 2022 4 hours ago, Tacenda said: I honestly don't believe that would even have to happen. I believe the church could just let a member marry in a SSM w/o getting ex'd. Do you see gays asking to be married in the temple? I haven't, maybe they want to. But doubt it, because they know that the highest tier in the CK is about creating worlds and spirits by way of a man and woman. I do believe that if the church changed its proclamation, and allowed marriage in church between same sex genders, the next step would be temple marriage. No reason for it not to be. 1
Tacenda Posted January 17, 2022 Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, why me said: I do believe that if the church changed its proclamation, and allowed marriage in church between same sex genders, the next step would be temple marriage. No reason for it not to be. Does the church allow those that don't pay their tithing or those that commit adultery, or those that don't obey the WoW to get their recommend? Not comparing the SSM, to these. Edited January 17, 2022 by Tacenda
HappyJackWagon Posted January 18, 2022 Posted January 18, 2022 On 1/16/2022 at 11:37 AM, Tacenda said: https://www.instagram.com/davidarchie/ Maybe you have to have Instagram to listen. Maybe it deserves it's own thread, but David Archuletta's recent Instagram has him coming out much stronger. And there's a post I read that he may be appearing on MS's. In part of his statement he mentions something very important. It's not about only sex. Do heterosexuals get married entirely for sex? Maybe it happens to those that want it and want to wait till marriage perhaps. But what he said is very important for people to understand about gays. They are just like you and I that are heterosexual. They want a partner for life if possible. And they even want to make it permanent, oh my! He's even mentioning the heterosexuals that are married w/o children, should they be married still? What about single parents, how come we have compassion for them? But with LGBTQ where is the compassion for them? It's heartbreaking to hear of the struggles members of the LGBTQ community face. And for someone like David Archuletta, who has been a very strong advocate for the church, to vocalize how he feels the church has let him down, says alot 1
The Nehor Posted January 18, 2022 Posted January 18, 2022 On 1/16/2022 at 3:08 PM, why me said: I do believe that if the church changed its proclamation, and allowed marriage in church between same sex genders, the next step would be temple marriage. No reason for it not to be. And just because one change happened doesn’t mean the next one will. People will agitate for it but people agitate for all kinds of things without them happening.
why me Posted January 18, 2022 Posted January 18, 2022 14 minutes ago, The Nehor said: And just because one change happened doesn’t mean the next one will. People will agitate for it but people agitate for all kinds of things without them happening. It would certainly happen. One can not permit a church marriage between same sex people and not allow temple marriage. No sense in that. But lets face it: there are so many genders now, the church would need to accomodate all genders or lack of genders.
The Nehor Posted January 18, 2022 Posted January 18, 2022 6 minutes ago, why me said: It would certainly happen. One can not permit a church marriage between same sex people and not allow temple marriage. No sense in that. But lets face it: there are so many genders now, the church would need to accomodate all genders or lack of genders. The hundreds of different genders thing is not going to last. It is played up by those who favor a binary model as if the “hundreds” people are their normal opponent and everyone rolls their eyes at it and a few view it as an existential threat for some reason. Inventing their own unique gender is a cutesy thing internet people with too much spare time who do not feel special enough do. Ironically a lot of them are heterosexual and cisgender and just want to feel unique. Instead of inventing a club or identifying due to a hobby or whatever they invent a gender. Low effort and they think it will earn them praise and specialness but it only works in their own little online toxic hugbox communities. Also most of the long gender lists are written by people who shift between them endlessly. They are called genders when really they are attitudes or emotional states or a state of mind or whatever. Feeling sad is not a gender. A gender is also a social construct so it has to be part of society to work. Some are popping up and some might stay but there aren’t going to be hundreds that everyone is going to memorize and know. They also come from people who will vocally and loudly tell everyone that they dislike labels so they lack pretty much any sense of self-awareness. It is a fad and it will pass quickly. It hangs on because of a few idiots still creating lists and because it is a fun propaganda item to mock with. The people involved are insufferable to everyone else. Not just to people who prefer a binary gender model but literally everyone else.
Tacenda Posted January 18, 2022 Posted January 18, 2022 39 minutes ago, why me said: It would certainly happen. One can not permit a church marriage between same sex people and not allow temple marriage. No sense in that. But lets face it: there are so many genders now, the church would need to accomodate all genders or lack of genders. The church can just behave like other faiths and not excommunicate people, IMO. Unless they are criminals that hurt the members in some way. The church wouldn't be mandated to allow temple marriage to gays. They are protected under the freedom of religion laws.
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