Uptick in GenZ / Millennial apostasy?

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

Things can escalate very quickly these days.

 

1 hour ago, rongo said:

They certainly are escalating very quickly with some people. Head-spinningly. 

Quicker than the timeline missionaries push for during the conversation process? 

Edited September 22, 2021 by SeekingUnderstanding

[rongo]

56 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Quicker than the timeline missionaries push for during the conversion process? 

Touche!

I don't like quick, used car salesmen pressure with teaching and baptizing people. I never challenged anyone to baptism after the 2nd discussion, as we were officially supposed to in the 90s. In Germany, you couldn't do it that fast, even if you wanted to. That has slowed down somewhat with Preach My Gospel, but I think the overall teaching is slumping under that. We know that baptisms have tanked, and I don't think it's all Covid's fault. 

[bOObOO]

4 minutes ago, rongo said:

Touche!

I don't like quick, used car salesmen pressure with teaching and baptizing people. I never challenged anyone to baptism after the 2nd discussion, as we were officially supposed to in the 90s. In Germany, you couldn't do it that fast, even if you wanted to. That has slowed down somewhat with Preach My Gospel, but I think the overall teaching is slumping under that. We know that baptisms have tanked, and I don't think it's all Covid's fault. 

If only it could be this quick and easy as well as effective 

 

[CelestialSeething]

On 9/17/2021 at 10:14 PM, Hamba Tuhan said:

My guess therefore is that you're observing a cultural phenomenon spread via social contagion?

Social media is the social contagion

[rongo]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

In the last 2 weeks, say, what are you seeing as the top reasons given for leaving (most significant first)? 

1) CES letter items

2) Social issues (feminism, gay issues, race and the Church, church finance, etc.).

3) In many cases, spouses who are unequally yoked with providing, self-reliance, spirituality, taking care of children, etc. suddenly snap and quickly deteriorate. It comes to a head, and the volcano blows, and the baby goes out with the bathwater (from my point of view).

While the CES letter issues are given as the main concerns, it seems like #2 vies with them in reality. In many cases, a drastic and sudden sea change has occurred where people go from conservative to militant liberal, with anger directed at the Church and family/other church members. While there naturally has been more to it than meets the eye of an observer, the shift from "0 to 60" is head-spinning and is very emotion-laden. What concerns me is that these are young adults and families who have good exposure to tough issues. It really seems like a nuclear bomb when they suddenly leave, and there have been a number of them lately. 

[CV75]

2 hours ago, rongo said:

1) CES letter items

2) Social issues (feminism, gay issues, race and the Church, church finance, etc.).

3) In many cases, spouses who are unequally yoked with providing, self-reliance, spirituality, taking care of children, etc. suddenly snap and quickly deteriorate. It comes to a head, and the volcano blows, and the baby goes out with the bathwater (from my point of view).

While the CES letter issues are given as the main concerns, it seems like #2 vies with them in reality. In many cases, a drastic and sudden sea change has occurred where people go from conservative to militant liberal, with anger directed at the Church and family/other church members. While there naturally has been more to it than meets the eye of an observer, the shift from "0 to 60" is head-spinning and is very emotion-laden. What concerns me is that these are young adults and families who have good exposure to tough issues. It really seems like a nuclear bomb when they suddenly leave, and there have been a number of them lately. 

So nothing different, really, but an underlying common threshold seems to have been reached for losing grip, and an interesting parallel to the iron rod vision.

[CV75]

2 hours ago, CelestialSeething said:

Social media is the social contagion

Orchestrated to erupt just before General Conference?

[Tacenda]

I got permission to share this, thought it fit well for the topic. Gives an example of love from a momma to her son that wrote a letter to her about leaving the church and what she wrote back. 

So my wife and I have been out for about a year. My parents have known for a little while but being that I’m 37 years old I didn’t feel an urgent rush to justify our decision to my parents. I did, however, feel like I needed to give them some kind of communication when I felt ready. Below is my letter to my parents and under that is my mother’s reply. I knew that my parents would be fairly level headed about it but like the heading says, sometimes they can be surprising. For all of you who happen to have parents who are not as understanding or outright cruel, my heart goes out to you. I’m glad you have found this community as it has helped me in many ways. Know that you are loved, even if it is by people you have never met who simply know the pain that you are going through. Hang in there, things will get better.

So this was my “leaving the church” letter I sent to my parents.

Alright, well, I suppose the cat is out of the bag about our family leaving the church. I know you have known for a while and appreciate you giving me space while I go through the mental dumpster fire that this process entails. But I feel like I’m to the point where I can at least get a few things off my chest.

As for the reasons why I felt I had to leave, there are many. I won’t go into details simply because I don’t want to be the cause of somebody I love going through what I have gone through. But I assure you that it was not because I wanted to leave. Ignorance truly is bliss. I’ve never related to that phrase more in my life than this last year. But there are some things that can’t be ignored. So, I guess I will just say, the church just isn’t what I thought it was. So much pain in so few words.

The strange dichotomy in my mind is that I feel both blessed and cursed to have been raised in the church. It has led to much of the good that I have in my life. But it has also hurt me in ways I’m now able to understand. You can see how this would make this process disorienting and confusing. I so badly want to hate everything about the church, it would make things easier. But I also can’t ignore the good it has provided. You know me. You know that I’m an intelligent person. You know A** is an intelligent person. Please understand that we wouldn’t make this decision without feeling that there was no other option. It has broken a part of me. It came close to killing me. I didn’t leave, it was taken from me. What the church doesn’t understand about members who leave is that most of us really wanted it to be true. We weren’t searching for flaws so we could leave. We were blindsided and devastated by the truth. Things are and will continue to slowly get better. I know this is a heavy read. I don’t want you to worry about me. We have a good support group who knows what this process is like. I will be ok.

I’m writing you because I’m still deep in the angry phase of my grief process and I don’t trust myself to keep from saying things that you may not want to hear. But I felt that you at least needed some kind of explanation.

I’m happy to talk more if you want, but please understand that this isn’t a decision that will change. I’m not inactive, I’m not the one straying from the ninety and nine. I am no longer a member of the church. I’m not being blunt to be harsh. I’m merely trying to ease any pain of prolonged hope in the return of “the prodigal son”. I saw that pain in grandma N***** and I don’t want that for either of you.

I’m aware that I’m very much like grandpa N***** in that very few serious things come out of my mouth. So please take the tone of my words here as a sign of their sincerity.

Now, Please excuse me now as I go watch Dumb and Dumber to lighten the mood inside my head.

I love you, N*****

This was my mother’s response

Thank you for sharing. We knew that there would be a day when you wanted to share, be it as little or as much as you could. We were not going to jump in and make that harder on you. We know that this decision has been extremely hard on both of you, but I feel you have had a harder time coming to this decision than most for what ever reason. A** shared with us just a little of what you were going through, but you need to know that a momma knows when her child is suffering whether or not she is informed completely or not. We see it in your face, hear it in your voice, feel it with the silence. As much as this decision has made you feel all the emotions and the thoughts of being done with this life you need to know I have felt all of those just watching you go through this. Not because you left the church, I don’t care about that, this life is your journey, we respect that, but because you were/are in such a bad place trying to figure this all out and what you were going to do with it and how to go forward. That was what was scary to watch.

N*****, please do not ever think of yourself as the “prodigal son,” in any sense, bible or religion or whatever sense. You are our son, ALWAYS welcomed and loved no matter what you go through in life. We just want you to be happy in whatever journey you and A** choose. We feel we are the most non judgmental parents and want happiness for all of our kids. I hope you all feel that as well.

The church did provide a great sense of belonging and good friends for all of you. I am glad you recognize some positive from your upbringing in the church, in the way we felt the best to raise you. We only knew what we knew.

We are trying to educate ourselves with a lot of things right now so that we can respect/understand the journey all of you choose to take. We hope that you can understand and respect us and your siblings that choose to stay in the church for whatever ever reasons that may be and not be angry with them. Love them for who/we are and not what we believe.

One day when you are ready we will talk more in depth. Like ai said before, this is your journey, your story and you need to know that we DO NOT discus this with your siblings. I have not told any of them that your family left. Both D**** and J***** asked why I didn’t tell them and I told them both it wasn’t our story to tell. That if they have questions they need to talk to you. So one day they may.

So one more thing, I am not my mom. The hurt that you see in her face is because she is mad/sad that her kids didn’t choose “her way”, she is not the person behind closed doors that she displays is public or at church. She is the biggest hypocrite that exists. I sincerely hope that I am not like that and if I am please call me on it. I know that I did things to you kids that I am so regretful of. Not an excuse, but we respond and behave as we were taught and raised. I tried really hard to break the cycle and know I failed at certain times. I know that has affected you in your adults years also. I am so sorry. Don’t be my dad! Let people know how you feel, speak up, you have a voice, use it.

N****, just be happy, love your family, play with them, go places, do adventures, let some things go, focus on what is important for you and A**. But please don’t leave us out. We are here for you no matter what you go through.

I could go on and on, because well, that is what moms do.

I may go watch dumber and dumber now too! Lol

You are loved so much!

[CV75]

23 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I got permission to share this, thought it fit well for the topic. Gives an example of love from a momma to her son that wrote a letter to her about leaving the church and what she wrote back. 

So my wife and I have been out for about a year. My parents have known for a little while but being that I’m 37 years old I didn’t feel an urgent rush to justify our decision to my parents. I did, however, feel like I needed to give them some kind of communication when I felt ready. Below is my letter to my parents and under that is my mother’s reply. I knew that my parents would be fairly level headed about it but like the heading says, sometimes they can be surprising. For all of you who happen to have parents who are not as understanding or outright cruel, my heart goes out to you. I’m glad you have found this community as it has helped me in many ways. Know that you are loved, even if it is by people you have never met who simply know the pain that you are going through. Hang in there, things will get better.

So this was my “leaving the church” letter I sent to my parents.

Alright, well, I suppose the cat is out of the bag about our family leaving the church. I know you have known for a while and appreciate you giving me space while I go through the mental dumpster fire that this process entails. But I feel like I’m to the point where I can at least get a few things off my chest.

As for the reasons why I felt I had to leave, there are many. I won’t go into details simply because I don’t want to be the cause of somebody I love going through what I have gone through. But I assure you that it was not because I wanted to leave. Ignorance truly is bliss. I’ve never related to that phrase more in my life than this last year. But there are some things that can’t be ignored. So, I guess I will just say, the church just isn’t what I thought it was. So much pain in so few words.

The strange dichotomy in my mind is that I feel both blessed and cursed to have been raised in the church. It has led to much of the good that I have in my life. But it has also hurt me in ways I’m now able to understand. You can see how this would make this process disorienting and confusing. I so badly want to hate everything about the church, it would make things easier. But I also can’t ignore the good it has provided. You know me. You know that I’m an intelligent person. You know A** is an intelligent person. Please understand that we wouldn’t make this decision without feeling that there was no other option. It has broken a part of me. It came close to killing me. I didn’t leave, it was taken from me. What the church doesn’t understand about members who leave is that most of us really wanted it to be true. We weren’t searching for flaws so we could leave. We were blindsided and devastated by the truth. Things are and will continue to slowly get better. I know this is a heavy read. I don’t want you to worry about me. We have a good support group who knows what this process is like. I will be ok.

I’m writing you because I’m still deep in the angry phase of my grief process and I don’t trust myself to keep from saying things that you may not want to hear. But I felt that you at least needed some kind of explanation.

I’m happy to talk more if you want, but please understand that this isn’t a decision that will change. I’m not inactive, I’m not the one straying from the ninety and nine. I am no longer a member of the church. I’m not being blunt to be harsh. I’m merely trying to ease any pain of prolonged hope in the return of “the prodigal son”. I saw that pain in grandma N***** and I don’t want that for either of you.

I’m aware that I’m very much like grandpa N***** in that very few serious things come out of my mouth. So please take the tone of my words here as a sign of their sincerity.

Now, Please excuse me now as I go watch Dumb and Dumber to lighten the mood inside my head.

I love you, N*****

This was my mother’s response

Thank you for sharing. We knew that there would be a day when you wanted to share, be it as little or as much as you could. We were not going to jump in and make that harder on you. We know that this decision has been extremely hard on both of you, but I feel you have had a harder time coming to this decision than most for what ever reason. A** shared with us just a little of what you were going through, but you need to know that a momma knows when her child is suffering whether or not she is informed completely or not. We see it in your face, hear it in your voice, feel it with the silence. As much as this decision has made you feel all the emotions and the thoughts of being done with this life you need to know I have felt all of those just watching you go through this. Not because you left the church, I don’t care about that, this life is your journey, we respect that, but because you were/are in such a bad place trying to figure this all out and what you were going to do with it and how to go forward. That was what was scary to watch.

N*****, please do not ever think of yourself as the “prodigal son,” in any sense, bible or religion or whatever sense. You are our son, ALWAYS welcomed and loved no matter what you go through in life. We just want you to be happy in whatever journey you and A** choose. We feel we are the most non judgmental parents and want happiness for all of our kids. I hope you all feel that as well.

The church did provide a great sense of belonging and good friends for all of you. I am glad you recognize some positive from your upbringing in the church, in the way we felt the best to raise you. We only knew what we knew.

We are trying to educate ourselves with a lot of things right now so that we can respect/understand the journey all of you choose to take. We hope that you can understand and respect us and your siblings that choose to stay in the church for whatever ever reasons that may be and not be angry with them. Love them for who/we are and not what we believe.

One day when you are ready we will talk more in depth. Like ai said before, this is your journey, your story and you need to know that we DO NOT discus this with your siblings. I have not told any of them that your family left. Both D**** and J***** asked why I didn’t tell them and I told them both it wasn’t our story to tell. That if they have questions they need to talk to you. So one day they may.

So one more thing, I am not my mom. The hurt that you see in her face is because she is mad/sad that her kids didn’t choose “her way”, she is not the person behind closed doors that she displays is public or at church. She is the biggest hypocrite that exists. I sincerely hope that I am not like that and if I am please call me on it. I know that I did things to you kids that I am so regretful of. Not an excuse, but we respond and behave as we were taught and raised. I tried really hard to break the cycle and know I failed at certain times. I know that has affected you in your adults years also. I am so sorry. Don’t be my dad! Let people know how you feel, speak up, you have a voice, use it.

N****, just be happy, love your family, play with them, go places, do adventures, let some things go, focus on what is important for you and A**. But please don’t leave us out. We are here for you no matter what you go through.

I could go on and on, because well, that is what moms do.

I may go watch dumber and dumber now too! Lol

You are loved so much!

If they feel leaving is a net negative, I can see why they wouldn’t want to share details. If it’s just the luck of the draw, the way life goes for some people, I can see why they wouldn’t necessarily be motivated to share details. But if leaving is a net positive, I’m wondering why they don’t want to be the cause of somebody they love going through what they have gone through, assuming it was worth it.

[rongo]

55 minutes ago, CV75 said:

If they feel leaving is a net negative, I can see why they wouldn’t want to share details. If it’s just the luck of the draw, the way life goes for some people, I can see why they wouldn’t necessarily be motivated to share details. But if leaving is a net positive, I’m wondering why they don’t want to be the cause of somebody they love going through what they have gone through, assuming it was worth it.

I will say this. I am seeing this in some of these exits: a genuine desire for their family and friends not to be brought to the point they are at. Sometimes, when people don't want to talk about it, it's because they don't want to hurt people, and I think that's a good instinct. 

Even when they no longer believe truth claims or feel deceived, some people do readily acknowledge the good in their lives from their Mormon upbringing. I think it's good when the whole baby isn't thrown out with the bathwater. 

[ttribe]

8 minutes ago, rongo said:

I will say this. I am seeing this in some of these exits: a genuine desire for their family and friends not to be brought to the point they are at. Sometimes, when people don't want to talk about it, it's because they don't want to hurt people, and I think that's a good instinct. 

Even when they no longer believe truth claims or feel deceived, some people do readily acknowledge the good in their lives from their Mormon upbringing. I think it's good when the whole baby isn't thrown out with the bathwater. 

I have said several times to friends and loved ones that I am not interested in trying to proselytize them out of the church.  It was an incredibly painful thing to go through.  I will answer questions, if they have them, but I won't actively try to send them down the path I went.

[CV75]

10 minutes ago, rongo said:

I will say this. I am seeing this in some of these exits: a genuine desire for their family and friends not to be brought to the point they are at. Sometimes, when people don't want to talk about it, it's because they don't want to hurt people, and I think that's a good instinct. 

Even when they no longer believe truth claims or feel deceived, some people do readily acknowledge the good in their lives from their Mormon upbringing. I think it's good when the whole baby isn't thrown out with the bathwater. 

I can see not wanting to offend loved ones with the details (a subset of that being not wanting to be the one responsible for inviting family and friends into the net positive they themselves have experienced by leaving, for the sake of maintaining relationships with other family and friends), and not hurting them by providing details they feel they cannot leverage into the same net positive they now enjoy (which is a matter of assessing the capacity of their family and friends).

Sometime sharing the gospel faces the same barriers and obstacles: new converts are sometimes very careful about sharing for the same reasons. The net positive for them has to be expressed in some other way such as charity.

[CV75]

11 minutes ago, ttribe said:

I have said several times to friends and loved ones that I am not interested in trying to proselytize them out of the church.  It was an incredibly painful thing to go through.  I will answer questions, if they have them, but I won't actively try to send them down the path I went.

Despite the pain involved, do you feel leaving is worth it?

[Sevenbak]

On 9/17/2021 at 11:18 PM, rchorse said:

I am seeing this, but I think it's largely a US and maybe European thing. It seems to me that in a lot of other countries, the opposite is happening. It reminds me of the Nephites falling away while the Lamanites grew more righteous, the last shall be first, the first last and all that.

It's just my opinion, but Utah and the US are fading as the core strength of the church, and the decline will only accelerate. But I believe the church elsewhere will grow stronger at an increasing rate that more than compensates.

Agreed.  But I think it has been foreseen that this would happen.

3 Nephi 16: 10

And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall ^asin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be ^blifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and ^cmurders, and ^dpriestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall ^ereject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.

[ttribe]

15 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Despite the pain involved, do you feel leaving is worth it?

For me?  Yes.

[Canadiandude]

49 minutes ago, ttribe said:

For me?  Yes.

For me as well.

 

Don’t get me wrong- the first few months feel something like a cosmic horror movie but I’d rather know the truth of things, where the evidence actually points to.

Eventually one can come to the conclusion that ethical living and purpose in life is not contingent upon the supernatural but it takes a while and it can be a disorientating process.

There’s real trauma involved. 

 

[CV75]

1 hour ago, ttribe said:

For me?  Yes.

Why not introduce the concept of leaving to others?

51 minutes ago, Canadiandude said:

For me as well.

Don’t get me wrong- the first few months feel something like a cosmic horror movie but I’d rather know the truth of things, where the evidence actually points to.

Eventually one can come to the conclusion that ethical living and purpose in life is not contingent upon the supernatural but it takes a while and it can be a disorientating process.

There’s real trauma involved. 

Horror and trauma are often involved for us converts also, and have nothing to do with attribution to the supernatural. Yet we share the gospel (given some of the constraints in some cases, which I described in a couple of previous posts) through pure love. What is the non-rational counterpart for your sharing (or not) your key to success in what you consider "ethical living and purpose in life"?

[Stormin' Mormon]

1 hour ago, Canadiandude said:

where the evidence actually points to.
 

I'm not sure that's possible without some a priori framework about how to weigh the evidence.  I have mountains of evidence that the Church is what it claims to be and mountains of evidence that it is not.  Where the evidence actually points to depends on the weight I give to each piece of evidence. 

I went through my own intense period (lasting several years) of questioning, doubting, weighing the evidence.  At times, I wondered if I was on my way out of the Church.  Turns out I wasn't because I came to recognize that it's all a question of how I weigh my evidences.

As Teryl Givens wrote (and I stumbled across during a critical moment of my own quest):

 

Quote

 

There must be grounds for doubt as well as belief in order to render the choice more truly a choice, and therefore more deliberate and laden with more personal vulnerability and investment. An overwhelming preponderance of evidence on either side would make our choice as meaningless as would a loaded gun pointed at our heads....Fortunately, in this world, one is always provided with sufficient materials out of which to fashion a life of credible conviction or dismissive denial.

 

 

[ttribe]

24 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Why not introduce the concept of leaving to others?

Because I've long since concluded that it is an individual journey that must be initiated and accepted by the person, not by persuasion.

[Canadiandude]

28 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Why not introduce the concept of leaving to others?

Horror and trauma are often involved for us converts also, and have nothing to do with attribution to the supernatural. Yet we share the gospel (given some of the constraints in some cases, which I described in a couple of previous posts) through pure love. What is the non-rational counterpart for your sharing (or not) your key to success in what you consider "ethical living and purpose in life"?

I’m confused. I’m sure horror & trauma is indeed something that converts experience.

Can you explain what you are trying to refute here or point being made?

 

[CV75]

2 hours ago, ttribe said:

Because I've long since concluded that it is an individual journey that must be initiated and accepted by the person, not by persuasion.

Yes, that goes without saying -- as in Lehi's dream, if you have something wonderful, you would typically want to share. Likewise, if you are searching, you will be open to discovery (which he did earlier). The request (search) and acceptance (discovery) have a corresponding reply and offer, or, the reverse, the invitation and offer meet a corresponding search  and acceptance, There is no persuasion involved (why equate giving with persuasion?).

1 hour ago, Canadiandude said:

I’m confused. I’m sure horror & trauma is indeed something that converts experience.

Can you explain what you are trying to refute here or point being made?

 

I'm not refuting anything or making a point (why take it that way?); I have 2 simple questions:

(1) Why not introduce the concept of leaving to others?

(2) What is the non-rational counterpart [to belief in the supernatural; I suggested pure love as with Lehi, but it could be any number of things] for your sharing (or not) your key to success in what you consider "ethical living and purpose in life"?

[ttribe]

13 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Yes, that goes without saying -- as in Lehi's dream, if you have something wonderful, you would typically want to share. Likewise, if you are searching, you will be open to discovery (which he did earlier). The request (search) and acceptance (discovery) have a corresponding reply and offer, or, the reverse, the invitation and offer meet a corresponding search  and acceptance, There is no persuasion involved (why equate giving with persuasion?).

Because of the harsh backlash that comes with cognitive dissonance.  It's an emotionally charged circumstance in which people are being asked to give up (in many cases) a lifelong paradigm.  I no longer make it a secret that I have left.  I have, in some cases, extended the invitation to ask me questions if they so choose.  But I will not go about actively trying to get people out of the church. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by ttribe

[bOObOO]

2 hours ago, ttribe said:

Because I've long since concluded that it is an individual journey that must be initiated and accepted by the person, not by persuasion.

 

13 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Because of the harsh backlash that comes with cognitive dissonance.  It's an emotionally charged circumstance in which people are being asked to give up (in many cases) a lifelong paradigm.  I no longer make it a secret that I have left.  I have, in some cases, extended the invitation to ask me questions if they so choose.  But I will not go about actively trying to get people out of the church. 

 

I think that should work both ways.  I believe all anyone should do is share their ideas and beliefs with others, without any of us needing to invite or persuade other people to think and believe as we do.  They could agree if they wanted, of course, but I see no good reason to try to persuade others that they should agree with us.  It would basically boil down to each of us saying our ideas and beliefs are the best ideas and beliefs anyone could ever have so why wouldn't others want to agree with us?  If they agree that our ideas and beliefs are the best, then of course they would agree with us and join us, but if they didn't agree then they would still stick to their own ideas and beliefs, thinking theirs were the best.
 

I remember my own conversion experience and how nobody needed to ask me to agree with them and join them.  Of course I was going to accept the best ideas and beliefs that had been presented to me. I actually said that to them, when they asked, which they did not need to ask me.  I said of course I want to be baptized, and I thought I had already been baptized correctly when my Dad baptized me at the age of 14.  If I had known then what I know now, I told them, I would have known who to go to for a proper baptism.  So yes.  I was ready to be baptized a long time ago and I still am.  When can you fit me into your schedule?  If I had not been ready then I would not have been baptized or accepted these ideas and beliefs.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, ttribe said:

Because of the harsh backlash that comes with cognitive dissonance.  It's an emotionally charged circumstance in which people are being asked to give up (in many cases) a lifelong paradigm.  I no longer make it a secret that I have left.  I have, in some cases, extended the invitation to ask me questions if they so choose.  But I will not go about actively trying to get people out of the church. 

I do get that leaving is not a happy experience, but what about afterwards? Have you not arrived at a place that inspires you to share it with others? How would you describe what you are sharing here, and would you describe why are you sharing it?

[ttribe]

34 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I do get that leaving is not a happy experience, but what about afterwards? Have you not arrived at a place that inspires you to share it with others? How would you describe what you are sharing here, and would you describe why are you sharing it?

I am in a very good place, actually.  However, I do not consider this board to be a safe place to discuss my journey, so I choose not to beyond the minimal details.  As far as I can tell, all I've really said in this thread is that I don't go trying to get people out of the church.  I would have been happy to leave my one post to stand alone.

Edited September 24, 2021 by ttribe