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CRT questions

Fether

By Fether
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Fether Mentor

Fether

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Been studying this a lot and reading up on critical theory. 
 

My first question now is what is the current scenario of CRT and schools?

Scenario 1: Two movements. One to ban CRT from being taught in School. One to start teaching CRT in schools

Scenario 2: One movement to ban CRT in fear that it will start appearing in schools

Or some alternate scenario

also…

If CRT is to be taught in school, what are SPECIFIC examples of how that would look. What lessons would be taught and what would NOT be taught? For example, the people I am around paint CRT is being anti-white and topic where we learn about how all whites are evil and the more of a minority you are the better of a person you are. It strips everything about who you are away as being evil.
Lose Lose Examples permeate all discussion. Like the classic Prager U video gives the example of a store owner who has a white man and a black man enter his store. If he helps the black man first, it’s because he doesn’t trust him to be in the store for too long. If he helps the white man first, it’s because he thinks whites are better. Is this an accurate representation?

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The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

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Critical Race Theory started in the 70s to try to understand why the Civil Rights Movement, despite equalizing rights on paper, failed to end institutional racism.

It is basically a graduate level theory and is mostly something masters and doctoral legal and social students with an interest in equality study to try to fix institutional problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_race_theory

It is not going to be taught in elementary schools or even High Schools despite hysteria about it. Idiots and charlatans have generalized it to mean anything and everything that dares to suggest that institutional and systematic racism exists at all. It is why virtually none of the people who are advocating for banning of it can describe what CRT actually is. They have no idea.

They aren’t trying to ban Critical Race Theory. It wasn’t being taught before. It is a code name being used to cover up attempts to whitewash (pun intended) racism in history and in the present and to suggest it is overblown and that it is a solved problem. It is a deception. It is not even a particularly clever one but people want to believe it so it is working.

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Fether Mentor

Fether

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3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It is not going to be taught in elementary schools or even High Schools despite hysteria about it. Idiots and charlatans have generalized it to mean anything and everything that dares to suggest that institutional and systematic racism exists at all. It is why virtually none of the people who are advocating for banning of it can describe what CRT actually is. They have no idea.

So no one (of note at least) is wanting it taught in k-12 school?

The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

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4 minutes ago, Fether said:

So no one (of note at least) is wanting it taught in k-12 school?

The legal and social theory that was originally CRT? No, it would be like teaching quantum physics in High School.

The catchall CRT that is a recent invention? Yeah, they are teaching some of them. If you look at the rules banning the teaching of CRT they are much more specific. It is a bait-and-switch thing. They claim that “CRT is now being taught in our schools” as if it is a new thing and ban it with rules banning stuff that is not CRT and has been taught for decades. It is causing real harm. It is just all based on a blatant lie.

Edit: The objective is to make it impossible to teach kids virtually anything about racism at all. It is trying to undo the last few decades trying (with limited but real success) to teach that racism is bad and does real harm. So why is there a political group that wants children to grow up with the idea that racism doesn’t exist and doesn’t need to be rooted out? I know what a suspicious and cynical person would think.

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Fether Mentor

Fether

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2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The catchall CRT that is a recent invention? Yeah, they are teaching some of them. If you look at the rules banning the teaching of CRT they are much more specific. It is a bait-and-switch thing. They claim that “CRT is now being taught in our schools” as if it is a new thing and ban it with rules banning stuff that is not CRT and has been taught for decades. It is causing real harm. It is just all based on a blatant lie.

Gotchya. So, even though it isn’t CRT, there is a race based curriculum being pushed to be taught in schools?

The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

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Just now, Fether said:

Gotchya. So, even though it isn’t CRT, there is a race based curriculum being pushed to be taught in schools?

No. There is a history of race that is already taught in schools and has been for several decades. These rules are there to weaken or eradicate it.

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Fether Mentor

Fether

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10 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

No. There is a history of race that is already taught in schools and has been for several decades. These rules are there to weaken or eradicate it.

I see, so you are saying the “anti CRT”. movement is a move to stop teaching about racism all together? Is this being done to deliberately strengthen white supremacy? Or is this being done out of ignorance and nativity but is still strengthening white supremely?

I guess do you think there is malicious intent?

5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

And which side caused the problem by redefining the word and never explaining what they mean? Yeah, I am gonna blame them for all the confusion.

As a conservative… I agree completely

 

 

 

general question for all. Is this not concerning? Is this not something that triggers the current complaint against the issue? I understand this is likely a unique situation, but this is exactly what people are afraid of https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/523756-minnesota-state-agencies-defend-fourth-grade-reading-material-after%3famp

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The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

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10 minutes ago, Fether said:

I see, so you are saying the “anti CRT”. movement is a move to stop teaching about racism all together? Is this being done to deliberately strengthen white supremacy? Or is this being done out of ignorance and nativity but is still strengthening white supremely?

Deliberate. You don’t cover up what you are doing by giving it a boogeyman label unless you are worried that fighting what you are fighting openly would look racist.

 

12 minutes ago, Fether said:

general question for all. Is this not concerning? Is this not something that triggers the current complaint against the issue? I understand this is likely a unique situation, but this is exactly what people are afraid of https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/523756-minnesota-state-agencies-defend-fourth-grade-reading-material-after%3famp

“Language in this book leaves the impression unchecked that police officers routinely pull over, arrest and kill black people without consequence”

Where is the point of factual contention? There is a reason Black parents often try to teach their kids how to behave around cops out of fear they will be killed if they do anything that could be misconstrued as aggressive. Sometimes even when they do nothing to resist they are still attacked.

It is a horrifying reality. Instead of waving our hands at how horrible it is to say it out loud why don’t we instead take steps to stop it? Seems like it would be easier in the long run.

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Fether Mentor

Fether

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6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Deliberate. You don’t cover up what you are doing by giving it a boogeyman label unless you are worried that fighting what you are fighting openly would look racist.

You believe everyone who is afraid of this boogeyman CRT is a white supremacist? Or just those that created the boogeyman?

Calm Grand Master

Calm

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understand this is likely a unique situation, but this is exactly what people are afraid of 

Have you read the actual book in question?

Here is a partial reading:

https://www.apa.org/pubs/magination/pdf/something-happened-our-town-sample-pages.pdf

Artwork is great.  Well written as well. 
 

Here is the teacher’s guide. Thought it was decent. Note the discussion about the police and how it ends with a positive question about police:

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Has anybody heard about a policeman shooting a Black person?


Police try to solve problems without shooting people and most police never use their guns. But sometimes a policeman might have to shoot someone. When would that be a good choice? (If the person had a weapon and was about to hurt someone else or the policeman)


When would it be a bad choice for a policeman to shoot someone? (When a person is not about to hurt someone else; when a policeman decides a Black person is dangerous for no good reason)


Has anyone been helped by a policeman or policewoman?

 

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Navidad Grand Master

Navidad

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I am writing a 250 page manuscript entitled "Invisibles in Plain Sight: Critical Race Theory and Beyond" with a whole chapter on CRT in public schools. I will simply say that a wikipedia or historical definition of CRT as it was as a legal theory fifty years ago has very little bearing on its application today. That is like a man stating that LDS folks still don't allow the priesthood for blacks today because he read something from an LDS authority from 1950. You all talk about a apostasy. The current state of CRT in popular and activist usage is an apostasy of the original. The apostles no longer have control. No one has control over the use of the name, no one speaks for CRT. Anyone can say anything they want in its name. The creed written in the 1970s is no long applicable to what is being done popularly by the disciples, advocates, and those selling an ideology in the name of the original. There is no correlation between CRT as a legal theory of Harvard's Derrick Bell and what some of you studied in law school, and what folks are selling today. It is truly a great apostasy. I wish I could use that term in my book, but no one outside of this forum and the LDS community would understand it. CRT, in its current manifestation has become a dogma; a religion of sorts.

Many folks don't understand about the apostasy but they can intuit it when they read certain elements of what is taught by those who seek credibility by tying their work into that of CRT. I just took a break from writing to come here and check out the forum. Imagine my surprise to see this new topic.  I just wrote a quote from a Mennonite guy (interestingly) who makes his living teaching "CRT" in schools and churches. I just quoted him from one of his books, "My whiteness is probably the foremost determiner of success or failure in the life ahead of me." Is that a radical concept? I am not sure, but I sure don't agree with it. My foremost determiner of success or failure in my life is my faith and all it teaches me. Because I disagree with him, doesn't make him wrong. But that statement would drive a lot of folks nuts who are white, have struggled, and don't feel particularly privileged or supreme.

I would simply suggest that we shouldn't defend the current and apostate iteration of CRT by what it was in its roots. It is what it has become in the hands of pundits, and disciples with no boundaries or limits that has made it challenging. There is no correlation committee or oversight among purveyors of what goes by CRT today. Part of the challenge is indeed that many critics don't know what they are really talking about; and many advocates are pushing a training and educational curriculum, especially for teachers that is being termed as CRT (by its purveyors), when it has virtually no connection or correlation to the original law articles and books of the founders. I have worked in over 100 public school districts, including a number of very large urban districts from coast to coast. I made decisions of funding training and sat through many of them. FWIW

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Navidad Grand Master

Navidad

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47 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

No. There is a history of race that is already taught in schools and has been for several decades. These rules are there to weaken or eradicate it.

I couldn't disagree more. But getting into the politics of it would be counter to forum rules. I know of no one anywhere who wants to dilute teaching accurate history, including that of race. I don't know anyone who is against diversity training when done without an alternative agenda in mind. The certainty of some of the replies here is fascinating. One of the greatest challenges of this, as well as many other subjects, such as faith is when those who are absolutely positively certain and dogmatic jump in. Then the conversation and dialogue is over! The current iteration of CRT in the public domain is too complex for binary and simplistic thinking - kind of like the eternities, huh?

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The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

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5 minutes ago, Fether said:

You believe everyone who is afraid of this boogeyman CRT is a white supremacist? Or just those that created the boogeyman?

Oh, here we go. We could talk about the attempt to create more white supremacists by keeping children ignorant. But why do that when we can quibble over the feelings of fragile white people who think it is more interesting to figure where the line of white supremacy is so they can be reassured they are not part of the problem?

”Maybe we should do something about racism? It is hurting people.”
”Wait, are you saying I am racist?”
”I don’t know. I say we fix the problem that is causing misery for a lot of people instead of worrying about your feelings.”
”You…..you monster. You think I’m EVIL!!! I AM THE REAL VICTIM HERE!!!!”

9780807047408

Calm Grand Master

Calm

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3 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I just did. Thought it was great. It’s a difficult topic. Not talking about it is not really an option. 

Did you buy it?  I don’t have kindle. 

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The Nehor Grand Master

The Nehor

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5 minutes ago, Navidad said:

I know of no one anywhere who wants to dilute teaching accurate history, including that of race.

I don’t know whether to laugh or to cry.

Calm Grand Master

Calm

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Haven’t watched the whole thing yet, but looks like online story time using the book. 
 

 

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