Sheaves and garners

[TheTanakas]

I had a question on this section of the manual.

223 - At harvest time, grain is often gathered into bundles called sheaves and 
placed in storehouses, sometimes called garners. Elder David A. Bednar shared a 
possible interpretation of the symbolism in Alma 26:5: "The sheaves in this analogy 
represent newly baptized members of the Church. The garners are the holy temples"
("Honorably Hold a Name and Standing," Ensign or Liahona, May 2009, 97). Consider 
what the analogy in Alma 26:5-7 teaches you about the importance of temple 
covenants.

This was mentioned too in a 2009 General Conference talk.

"The sheaves in this analogy represent newly baptized members of the Church. The 
garners are the holy temples".

Garner is mentioned once in the Doctrine and Covenants:

"Therefore, I must gather together my people, according to the parable of the wheat 
and the tares, that the wheat may be secured in the garners to possess eternal life,
and be crowned with celestial glory, when I shall come in the kingdom of my Father 
to reward every man according as his work shall be; While the tares shall be bound
in bundles, and their bands made strong, that they may be burned with unquenchable 
fire".

Why are non-celestial beings considered tares to be burned?

Pete

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, TheTanakas said:

I had a question on this section of the manual.

223 - At harvest time, grain is often gathered into bundles called sheaves and 
placed in storehouses, sometimes called garners. Elder David A. Bednar shared a 
possible interpretation of the symbolism in Alma 26:5: "The sheaves in this analogy 
represent newly baptized members of the Church. The garners are the holy temples"
("Honorably Hold a Name and Standing," Ensign or Liahona, May 2009, 97). Consider 
what the analogy in Alma 26:5-7 teaches you about the importance of temple 
covenants.

This was mentioned too in a 2009 General Conference talk.

"The sheaves in this analogy represent newly baptized members of the Church. The 
garners are the holy temples".

Garner is mentioned once in the Doctrine and Covenants:

"Therefore, I must gather together my people, according to the parable of the wheat 
and the tares, that the wheat may be secured in the garners to possess eternal life,
and be crowned with celestial glory, when I shall come in the kingdom of my Father 
to reward every man according as his work shall be; While the tares shall be bound
in bundles, and their bands made strong, that they may be burned with unquenchable 
fire".

Why are non-celestial beings considered tares to be burned?

Pete

Take it with a grain of salt, I guess.

[teddyaware]

2 hours ago, TheTanakas said:

I had a question on this section of the manual.

223 - At harvest time, grain is often gathered into bundles called sheaves and 
placed in storehouses, sometimes called garners. Elder David A. Bednar shared a 
possible interpretation of the symbolism in Alma 26:5: "The sheaves in this analogy 
represent newly baptized members of the Church. The garners are the holy temples"
("Honorably Hold a Name and Standing," Ensign or Liahona, May 2009, 97). Consider 
what the analogy in Alma 26:5-7 teaches you about the importance of temple 
covenants.

This was mentioned too in a 2009 General Conference talk.

"The sheaves in this analogy represent newly baptized members of the Church. The 
garners are the holy temples".

Garner is mentioned once in the Doctrine and Covenants:

"Therefore, I must gather together my people, according to the parable of the wheat 
and the tares, that the wheat may be secured in the garners to possess eternal life,
and be crowned with celestial glory, when I shall come in the kingdom of my Father 
to reward every man according as his work shall be; While the tares shall be bound
in bundles, and their bands made strong, that they may be burned with unquenchable 
fire".

Why are non-celestial beings considered tares to be burned?

Pete

 

The events described in the verse you quote from Doctrine and Covenants 86 are going to occur at the time of the Second Coming of Christ, as is clearly set forth in the following verses from Doctrine and Covenants 88.

94 And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood—she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea—behold, she is the TARES of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it.

95 And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled;

96 And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened (by a celestial glory) and be caught up to meet him (at his Second Coming). (Doctrine and Covenants 88)

Meanwhile, both Doctrine and Covenants 76 and 138 declare that the unrepentant wicked, who have not come unto Christ and received of his redemption, are thrust into hell (a.k.a. the spirit prison) where they are taught humility by being caused to suffer for their own sins until they are contrite enough to willingly and gratefully receive forgiveness through the atonement of Christ that they might thereby escape the everlasting fires of divine judgement pronounced against sin that cannot be escaped without authentic faith in Christ and sincere repentance.

104 These are they who suffer the wrath of God on earth.
105 These are they who suffer the vengeance of eternal fire.
106 These are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, UNTIL the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work;
107 When he shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have overcome and have trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.
108 Then shall he be crowned with the crown of his glory, to sit on the throne of his power to reign forever and ever.
109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;
110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever; (Doctrine and Covenants 76)

Finally, those numbered among the tares, who steadfastly refuse to repent and receive redemption through the Savior, are consigned to remain in the unquenchable fires of hell forever.

32 They are they who are the sons of perdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
33 For they are vessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;
34 Concerning whom I have said there is no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come— (D&C 76)

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by teddyaware

[InCognitus]

2 hours ago, TheTanakas said:

Garner is mentioned once in the Doctrine and Covenants:

"Therefore, I must gather together my people, according to the parable of the wheat 
and the tares, that the wheat may be secured in the garners to possess eternal life,
and be crowned with celestial glory, when I shall come in the kingdom of my Father 
to reward every man according as his work shall be; While the tares shall be bound
in bundles, and their bands made strong, that they may be burned with unquenchable 
fire".

Why are non-celestial beings considered tares to be burned?

The parable of the wheat and the tares represents the far left and far right of the judgement of God, very much like the parable of the sheep and the goats.  But God's judgement isn't binary, as there are nuances of judgement in between.   The burning described happens at the second coming of Christ (see for example D&C 29:9-11), and it prepares the earth for the millennial reign of Christ on earth, during which the earth exists in a terrestrialized state.  

So the people that remain will be both celestial and terrestrial, as the quotes below explain:

Quote

Because of the destruction of the wicked at the Savior’s Second Coming, only righteous people will live on the earth at the beginning of the Millennium. They will be those who have lived virtuous and honest lives. These people will inherit either the terrestrial or celestial kingdom.   

(Gospel Principles, People on the Earth During the Millennium).

And:

Quote

“Some members of the Church have an erroneous idea that when the millennium comes all of the people are going to be swept off the earth except righteous members of the Church. That is not so. There will be millions of people, Catholics, Protestants, agnostics, Mohammedans, people of all classes, and of all beliefs, still permitted to remain upon the face of the earth, but they will be those who have lived clean lives, those who have been free from wickedness and corruption. All who belong, by virtue of their good lives, to the terrestrial order, as well as those who have kept the celestial law, will remain upon the face of the earth during the millennium.

“Eventually, however, the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters do the sea. But there will be need for the preaching of the gospel, after the millennium is brought in, until all men are either converted or pass away”

(Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:86–87, as quoted in Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual - The Millennium and the Glorification of the Earth).

 

[Glenn101]

17 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Meanwhile, both Doctrine and Covenants 76 and 138 declare that the unrepentant wicked, who have not come unto Christ and received of his redemption, are thrust into hell (a.k.a. the spirit prison) where they are taught humility by being caused to suffer for their own sins until they are contrite enough to willingly and gratefully receive forgiveness through the atonement of Christ that they might thereby escape the everlasting fires of divine judgement pronounced against sin that cannot be escaped without authentic faith in Christ and sincere repentance.

I have not heard any general authority describe the punishment meted out to the unrepentant thusly. My understanding is that they have to suffer for their own sins, until they have paid the "uttermost farthing." (3 Nephi 12:16)

Quote

Doctrine and Covenants Section 19 adds to that idea:

17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;

18 Which asuffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink

Do you have any scriptural or General Authority references to support your thesis?

Thanks,

Glenn

[The Nehor]

20 hours ago, TheTanakas said:

I had a question on this section of the manual.

223 - At harvest time, grain is often gathered into bundles called sheaves and 
placed in storehouses, sometimes called garners. Elder David A. Bednar shared a 
possible interpretation of the symbolism in Alma 26:5: "The sheaves in this analogy 
represent newly baptized members of the Church. The garners are the holy temples"
("Honorably Hold a Name and Standing," Ensign or Liahona, May 2009, 97). Consider 
what the analogy in Alma 26:5-7 teaches you about the importance of temple 
covenants.

This was mentioned too in a 2009 General Conference talk.

"The sheaves in this analogy represent newly baptized members of the Church. The 
garners are the holy temples".

Garner is mentioned once in the Doctrine and Covenants:

"Therefore, I must gather together my people, according to the parable of the wheat 
and the tares, that the wheat may be secured in the garners to possess eternal life,
and be crowned with celestial glory, when I shall come in the kingdom of my Father 
to reward every man according as his work shall be; While the tares shall be bound
in bundles, and their bands made strong, that they may be burned with unquenchable 
fire".

Why are non-celestial beings considered tares to be burned?

Pete

Jesus was a master of using shock value to good effect. Why did He tell people to hate their own families for His sake?

These kinds of statements tend to shake people out of complacency. If it offends it is doing its job right. 

[MustardSeed]

So I guess sometimes we can assume that scripture is not to be taken literally. 

[Tacenda]

29 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

So I guess sometimes we can assume that scripture is not to be taken literally. 

Yes to that. I am so glad for the article of faith that says the Bible is to be the truth as far as it is translated correctly. This is a good thing!

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, Glenn101 said:

I have not heard any general authority describe the punishment meted out to the unrepentant thusly. My understanding is that they have to suffer for their own sins, until they have paid the "uttermost farthing." (3 Nephi 12:16)

Do you have any scriptural or General Authority references to support your thesis?

Thanks,

Glenn

In light of the following from the prophet Alma, do you really believe a fallen mortal man, who is stained to the hilt with immorality, filthiness and sin, can actually atone for his own sins?

9 For it is expedient that an atonement should be made; for according to the great plan of the Eternal God there must be an atonement made, or else ALL MANKIND must unavoidably perish; yea, all are hardened; yea, ALL are fallen and are lost, and must perish EXCEPT IT BE THROUGH THE ATONEMENT which it is expedient should be made.

10 For it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice; yea, not a sacrifice of man, neither of beast, neither of any manner of fowl; for; but it must be an infinite and eternal sacrifice. (Alma 34)

After reading the above two verses, do you still believe a sinful man can make an infinite and eternal atoning sacrifice for his own sins?

[teddyaware]

15 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Yes to that. I am so glad for the article of faith that says the Bible is to be the truth as far as it is translated correctly. This is a good thing!

Why don’t you read my and try to understand my posts on this thread so you can see for yourself that there is a perfectly reasonable and scripturally consistent answer to the question?

[Tacenda]

14 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

Why don’t you read my and try to understand my posts on this thread so you can see for yourself that there is a perfectly reasonable and scripturally consistent answer to the question?

Did you mean this for someone else? Not sure what you mean, and not very good at reading each post apparently.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

So I guess sometimes we can assume that scripture is not to be taken literally. 

Yep, sadly there will not be a big nasty dragon with a lot of heads at the Last Day. I am as disappointed as you are.

[Glenn101]

On 7/2/2021 at 12:34 PM, teddyaware said:

After reading the above two verses, do you still believe a sinful man can make an infinite and eternal atoning sacrifice for his own sins?

No, he or she cannot make an atoning sacrifice. Whatever punishment is meted out to the unrepentant will not be an atonement or a sacrifice. It will be whatever penalty justice requires for sins not repented of. That is what is laid out in D&C 19.

[teddyaware]

1 minute ago, Glenn101 said:

No, he or she cannot make an atoning sacrifice. Whatever punishment is meted out to the unrepentant will not be an atonement or a sacrifice. It will be whatever penalty justice requires for sins not repented of. That is what is laid out in D&C 19.

What good would it be to suffer for one’s sins if at the end of the process the individual is still unrepentant and without remorse of conscience?

 

[Calm]

15 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

What good would it be to suffer for one’s sins if at the end of the process the individual is still unrepentant and without remorse of conscience?

 

Why do we put limits on jail terms even if the perpetrator shows no remorse?  If prison was simply to protect society, all sentences would be open ended.  Justice (someone suffers to the extent they made others suffer) is an end in of itself in most people’s views. 

Edited July 4, 2021 by Calm

[Glenn101]

53 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

What good would it be to suffer for one’s sins if at the end of the process the individual is still unrepentant and without remorse of conscience?

I think this is where outer darkness comes into play.

[teddyaware]

12 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

I think this is where outer darkness comes into play.

Correct… Outer darkness is reserved only for those individuals who utterly refuse to come unto Christ and repent of their sinful ways. Although the inheritors of the Telestial Kingdom must indeed first suffer for their sins prior to being able to obtain that kingdom of glory, the suffering they endure is wisely calculated to bring remorse of conscience so that they are eventually able to receive the forgiveness of Christ through sincere penitence. Doctrine and Covenants 76 refers to this process of intense spiritual suffering in the spirit prison as “the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God,” wherein all Christ’s former enemies — with the exception of the sons of perdition —are subdued in their rebellion against God until they are authentically remorseful and genuinely wanting to change for the better.

Edited July 4, 2021 by teddyaware

[Glenn101]

5 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Correct… Outer darkness is reserved only for those individuals who utterly refuse to come unto Christ and repent of their sinful ways. Although the inheritors of the Telestial Kingdom must indeed first suffer for their sins prior to being able to obtain that kingdom of glory, the suffering they endure is wisely calculated to bring remorse of conscience so that they are eventually able to receive the forgiveness of Christ through sincere penitence. Doctrine and Covenants 76 refers to this process of intense spiritual suffering in the spirit prison as “the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God,” wherein all Christ’s former enemies — with the exception of the sons of perdition —are subdued in their rebellion against God until they are authentically remorseful and genuinely wanting to change for the better.

I expect that most if not all of those who will inhabit the Telestial Kingdom will already be feeling a lot of genuine remorse and contrition ere they begin their period of punishment but will have to pay the full price that justice demands because they were not repentant here on earth.