Byu devotional talk re: Sin of racism'

[ttribe]

On 4/26/2021 at 8:31 PM, Islander said:

The issue with BLM is not necessarily that they pretend to have initiated a "critical movements for freedom" which they have not. Although the media gives them great cover and a political pulpit, this new iteration has more to do with cultural Marxism than quest for racial equality. I hope not to get banned here (again) but it would be negligent to try and mince words. Their platform goes well beyond their publicly stated mission statement.

What everyone has seen the world over is an organization that instigate violence, black race hegemony, LGBTQ+ ideology and espouses hatred of the current form of government, the rule of law and the value system that constitute the foundation off this country. The truth is that every day black-on-black violence by far surpasses the number of blacks killed during police interactions in this country per year. 

It is also undeniable that this country; with all its flaws, imperfections and less that pristine history, has provided in the last 100 years more social and economic opportunities, access to health, safety and wellbeing to the children of Africa than any other on the face of the earth! A bit over 1% of America's billionaires are African Americans and 13% of all millionaire are also of African descent. And that has been achieved after nearly 200 years of slavery. Let's not forget the first black president in the western world. 

But of course, violent civil disobedience, political and psychological blackmail, economic boycott and intimidation are nothing but the means to an end in the current strategy which is not new, by the way. America has just started to experience it.

 

A page torn straight from the KKK handbook, that one.

[Islander]

On 4/28/2021 at 11:22 AM, Dan McClellan said:

This is deeply racist and breathtakingly ignorant. 

Got new for you, I am black of Hispanic origin and an immigrant. Just because you do not agree with the facts I presented does not make me a racist. This country is the worst in the world....of course, except for ALL the other ones. I have been to 28 countries in my life time and can tell you with absolute certainty that what people of African descent have achieved in America they can only dream of elsewhere. There are nearly 200 million people of African ancestry living outside of Africa. Those in America live better than 90% of them. And rest assured, the history of slavery was just the same or worse everywhere else.

Compare the fate of African Americans in this country with their brothers and sisters in Brazil, Haiti and the rest of the caribean basin. This country is far from perfect, but to single out this nation as a bastion of racism and exploitation is just pure historical revisionism and intellectual hypocrisy. "White" people have been killing each other for thousands of years before they discover Africa as a source of slaves. Every nation under the son has a history of bloodshed and strife. That is just the M.O of the natural man since the beginning of time. Yes, there are disparities and there will ALWAYS be. Simple statistics. There can be a uniform distribution simply because African Americans "began" full integration into the American economy 200 years after the rest of the population. Progress will continue to be made but it will be slow and multigenerational. 

Oh, don't forget to point for me how many black billionaires are in Canada. Brazil has 55 million people of African descent (about 25% of te total population) and NOT ONE cabinet member, not one CEO of a large business or board member; not one black banker. I think I can rest now. I know that absolutely nobody will reassess their position in this forum, based on the discussed above. They usually refuse to be confused by the facts since they already made up their minds.

 

[Islander]

On 4/28/2021 at 11:31 AM, ttribe said:

A page torn straight from the KKK handbook, that one.

 

I am black of Hispanic origin and an immigrant. I am sure the KKK boys will embrace me with open arms.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt." Anonymous.

You are using the same tactics of the liberal Marxists. Can't make a cogent argument? Throw the race card around and silence the opposition. Got news for you; I come from a communist country. That is a very old communist trick to crush ideological dissent and discredit the political opposition. I am immune to such BS.

[Duncan]

7 minutes ago, Islander said:

Got new for you, I am black of Hispanic origin and an immigrant. Just because you do not agree with the facts I presented does not make me a racist. This country is the worst in the world....of course, except for ALL the other ones. I have been to 28 countries in my life time and can tell you with absolute certainty that what people of African descent have achieved in America they can only dream of elsewhere. There are nearly 200 million people of African ancestry living outside of Africa. Those in America live better than 90% of them. And rest assured, the history of slavery was just the same or worse everywhere else.

Compare the fate of African Americans in this country with their brothers and sisters in Brazil, Haiti and the rest of the caribean basin. This country is far from perfect, but to single out this nation as a bastion of racism and exploitation is just pure historical revisionism and intellectual hypocrisy. "White" people have been killing each other for thousands of years before they discover Africa as a source of slaves. Every nation under the son has a history of bloodshed and strife. That is just the M.O of the natural man since the beginning of time. Yes, there are disparities and there will ALWAYS be. Simple statistics. There can be a uniform distribution simply because African Americans "began" full integration into the American economy 200 years after the rest of the population. Progress will continue to be made but it will be slow and multigenerational. 

Oh, don't forget to point for me how many black billionaires are in Canada. Brazil has 55 million people of African descent (about 25% of te total population) and NOT ONE cabinet member, not one CEO of a large business or board member; not one black banker. I think I can rest now. I know that absolutely nobody will reassess their position in this forum, based on the discussed above. They usually refuse to be confused by the facts since they already made up their minds.

 

Who do you have in mind as a Canadian black billionaire?

[Islander]

3 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Who do you have in mind as a Canadian black billionaire?

Exactly...

 

5 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Who do you have in mind as a Canadian black billionaire?

 

[Duncan]

Just now, Islander said:

Exactly...

 

 

There's one! he's like the 12th richest man in Canada

 

oh I see what you mean, when you say America you meant the United States, not Canada or Mexico-got it

[Dan McClellan]

13 hours ago, Islander said:

Got new for you, I am black of Hispanic origin and an immigrant. Just because you do not agree with the facts I presented does not make me a racist. This country is the worst in the world....of course, except for ALL the other ones. I have been to 28 countries in my life time and can tell you with absolute certainty that what people of African descent have achieved in America they can only dream of elsewhere. There are nearly 200 million people of African ancestry living outside of Africa. Those in America live better than 90% of them. And rest assured, the history of slavery was just the same or worse everywhere else.

Compare the fate of African Americans in this country with their brothers and sisters in Brazil, Haiti and the rest of the caribean basin. This country is far from perfect, but to single out this nation as a bastion of racism and exploitation is just pure historical revisionism and intellectual hypocrisy. "White" people have been killing each other for thousands of years before they discover Africa as a source of slaves. Every nation under the son has a history of bloodshed and strife. That is just the M.O of the natural man since the beginning of time. Yes, there are disparities and there will ALWAYS be. Simple statistics. There can be a uniform distribution simply because African Americans "began" full integration into the American economy 200 years after the rest of the population. Progress will continue to be made but it will be slow and multigenerational. 

Oh, don't forget to point for me how many black billionaires are in Canada. Brazil has 55 million people of African descent (about 25% of te total population) and NOT ONE cabinet member, not one CEO of a large business or board member; not one black banker. I think I can rest now. I know that absolutely nobody will reassess their position in this forum, based on the discussed above. They usually refuse to be confused by the facts since they already made up their minds.

 

Got a few pieces of news for you:

(1) Being a Black immigrant of Hispanic origin does not remotely mean you are magically incapable of promoting ignorant or racist rhetoric. 

(2) I did not say you were a racist, I said your post was deeply racist and breathtakingly ignorant, and it absolutely is.

(3) I didn't in any way, shape, or form say this country is the worst in the world, and I've been to many more countries than you and can tell you with absolute certainly that you don't have the foggiest idea what you're talking about. 

(4) "Those living in America" are a spectrum of individuals ranging from billionaires to homeless people without a penny to their name, so to treat them as a monolith you can compare to other nations is laughably reductive, binary, and naive. 

(5) No, the history of slavery was not the same or worse everywhere. Everywhere is different, but the United States has a unique relationship with oppressing Black folks that continues to this day and that you clearly don't want to even try to understand.

(6) The notion that "African Americans 'began' full integration into the American economy 200 years after the rest of the population" is simply too stupid for words. To this day, Black folks are systemically and systematically marginalized by and within our economy. There are banks that still, to this day, target Black folks for high-risk mortgages in bad areas even when they qualify for better ones because of segregation. Redlining goes on to this day. White communities seek to keep Black folks out to this day. To this day, a name on a job application that "sounds Black" reduces the likelihood that the candidate will be interviewed or hired. To this day, a Black college student is less likely to receive need-based funding for their education than a white college student with an identical application and background. To this day, Black drivers are several times more likely to be pulled over for a vehicle search than white drivers, even though white drivers are more likely to be found with contraband (and that's controlling for crime rate and area). To this day, Black folks are sentenced to harsher sentences than white folks with identical records and backgrounds. Black folks as a whole are still not able to fully integrate into the American economy, and that's just not even up for debate. 

(7) I don't know why you think pointing out that Brazil is also racist somehow means the rank systemic power asymmetries in America just don't count. 

(8) You have a lot of work to do to get better informed.

[ttribe]

14 hours ago, Islander said:

 

I am black of Hispanic origin and an immigrant. I am sure the KKK boys will embrace me with open arms.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt." Anonymous.

You are using the same tactics of the liberal Marxists. Can't make a cogent argument? Throw the race card around and silence the opposition. Got news for you; I come from a communist country. That is a very old communist trick to crush ideological dissent and discredit the political opposition. I am immune to such BS.

That was one of the dumbest posts I've seen on here in a long time.  Congrats on that.

Saying your rhetoric was identical to the KKK's was not the same as saying you're a member of said group.  It should have been a wake-up call to you; not an opportunity to dig your heels in.

Throw the "race card" around? Seriously?  THAT'S THE ENTIRE SUBJECT OF THE THREAD!

[AtlanticMike]

49 minutes ago, Dan McClellan said:

The notion that "African Americans 'began' full integration into the American economy 200 years after the rest of the population" is simply too stupid for words. To this day, Black folks are systemically and systematically marginalized by and within our economy. There are banks that still, to this day, target Black folks for high-risk mortgages in bad areas even when they qualify for better ones because of segregation. Redlining goes on to this day. White communities seek to keep Black folks out to this day. To this day, a name on a job application that "sounds Black" reduces the likelihood that the candidate will be interviewed or hired. To this day, a Black college student is less likely to receive need-based funding for their education than a white college student with an identical application and background. To this day, Black drivers are several times more likely to be pulled over for a vehicle search than white drivers, even though white drivers are more likely to be found with contraband (and that's controlling for crime rate and area). To this day, Black folks are sentenced to harsher sentences than white folks with identical records and backgrounds. Black folks as a whole are still not able to fully integrate into the American economy, and that's just not even up for debate. 

Do you know any black people? Most black people I know are tired of white people saying they can't compete with whites because of the color of their skin, because that's what you're saying. Go back and read what you said, because when I read it, it's obvious to me that what your saying is that blacks can't compete with whites based solely on their skin color or name. Black people don't need you to feel sorry for them, they're just as capable as white people, guilt can distort the truth.

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Do you know any black people? Most black people I know are tired of white people saying they can't compete with whites because of the color of their skin, because that's what you're saying. Go back and read what you said, because when I read it, it's obvious to me that what your saying is that blacks can't compete with whites based solely on their skin color or name. Black people don't need you to feel sorry for them, they're just as capable as white people, guilt can distort the truth.

That is not what was said. Nor is it what BLM or MLK or any other civil rights organization advocates for. You think they go around preaching their own inferiority and a desire to be coddled?

This is a gross hateful mischaracterization. It is also a sadly common one touted by liars.

[AtlanticMike]

26 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

29 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

This is a gross hateful mischaracterization. It is also a sadly common one touted by liars.

 

Islander, somebody I rarely agree with came on here and gave his thoughtful opinion and is now being compared to the KKK. Thats just wrong, dead wrong! 

     And now a bunch of beta male progressives are attacking him. Not cool. 

[Danzo]

4 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Islander, somebody I rarely agree with came on here and gave his thoughtful opinion and is now being compared to the KKK. Thats just wrong, dead wrong! 

     And now a bunch of beta male progressives are attacking him. Not cool. 

The funny thing is that these people who are attacking his point of view are white people who only encounter minorities on the internet. 

But it makes them feel good. 

It is so much easier to denounce racism on the internet than it is to actually interact with people of other races and ethnicities in real life.   

 

 

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, Danzo said:

white people who only encounter minorities on the internet. 

Seriously?  That is a big assumption. I live in Utah, stay mostly at home due to health and even I have interaction with minorities outside of the Internet, mostly family, but members of my ward and around town. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Calm

[Danzo]

On 4/28/2021 at 10:22 AM, Dan McClellan said:

This is deeply racist and breathtakingly ignorant. 

 

On 4/28/2021 at 10:31 AM, ttribe said:

A page torn straight from the KKK handbook, that one.

 

So much easier to label and dismiss arguments you don't agree with than to engage in dialog. 

Keep up the good work!

[AtlanticMike]

13 minutes ago, Danzo said:

The funny thing is that these people who are attacking his point of view are white people who only encounter minorities on the internet. 

But it makes them feel good. 

It is so much easier to denounce racism on the internet than it is to actually interact with people of other races and ethnicities in real life.   

 

 

I know, even after islander told us he's a man of color, one poster went ahead and explained to islander how opressed islander actually was, and I'm the one who gets a post insinuating hatefulness and that I'm a liar. Like I said Guilt blinds a lot of people. 

  I debated writing the last two post, I saw Nemesis in the back of my mind the whole time I was writing it, but I can't stand white men insinuating a man of color (islander) is even close to what the KKK believed. If I get punished by a moderator so be it. I'll take it!! The KKK insinuations against a man of color has got to stop. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[Dan McClellan]

1 hour ago, AtlanticMike said:

Do you know any black people? Most black people I know are tired of white people saying they can't compete with whites because of the color of their skin, because that's what you're saying. Go back and read what you said, because when I read it, it's obvious to me that what your saying is that blacks can't compete with whites based solely on their skin color or name. Black people don't need you to feel sorry for them, they're just as capable as white people, guilt can distort the truth.

Yikes, what a ludicrous and malicious tergiversation of my comment, not a single word of which could remotely be twisted to suggest I believe or am suggesting any such thing whatsoever. You’re clearly just groping desperately for some kind of rhetorical prophylaxis. Good grief, do better.  

[The Nehor]

25 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Islander, somebody I rarely agree with came on here and gave his thoughtful opinion and is now being compared to the KKK. Thats just wrong, dead wrong! 

     And now a bunch of beta male progressives are attacking him. Not cool. 

I didn’t say anything about that. I said your mischaracterization is horrible. I was and continue to be involved in a small way in this movement. You lied about their aims. I stand by my statement.

And ahem, I am clearly a gamma male.

[Danzo]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

Seriously?  That is a big assumption. I live in Utah, stay mostly at home due to health and even I have interaction with minorities outside of the Internet, mostly family, but members of my ward and around town. 

I was being a little bit sarcastic, but just a little. 

It is a bit amusing to ready on these forums everyone trying to show how anti racist they are by dismissing others experiences and posts as racist. 

The way to improve racial relations is by relating to others of different races, not by labeling others as racist to somehow  justify ones one righteousness.

by the way, how much do you really interact with other races and cultures? how much time to you get to know them, really know them?

I would be curious to find out how much people know about racism from real life or just the internet.

 

I probably spend greater than 90% of the time I am not alone interacting with people of a different race than I am.  

Probably geater than half of my clients don't speak english. Many are immigrants and many are earning below the poverty level (I know, because I help with their taxes).  I regulary help out with pro bono work for the local legal aid and have given national seminars on immigrant taxation. 

This stuff is not hypothetical to me.

 

 

[Dan McClellan]

9 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

I know, even after islander told us he's a man of color, one poster went ahead and explained to islander how opressed islander actually was, and I'm the one who gets a post insinuating hatefulness and that I'm a liar. Like I said Guilt blinds a lot of people. 

  I debated writing the last two post, I saw Nemesis in the back of my mind the whole time I was writing it, but I can't stand white men insinuating a man of color (islander) is even close to what the KKK believed. If I get punished by a moderator so be it. I'll take it!! The KKK insinuations against a man of color has got to stop. 

No one said a single word about “how oppressed islander actually was.” You keep lying about what people are saying just so it will fit your petty and naive rhetoric, and it’s not fooling anyone. 

[ttribe]

32 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Islander, somebody I rarely agree with came on here and gave his thoughtful opinion and is now being compared to the KKK. Thats just wrong, dead wrong! 

     And now a bunch of beta male progressives are attacking him. Not cool. 

Your reading comprehension sucks.  The comparison was very specifically to his rhetoric.  The comparison was not of the person.

You, on the other hand, have responded with stereotypes and assumptions of your intellectual opponent(s).

 

24 minutes ago, Danzo said:

The funny thing is that these people who are attacking his point of view are white people who only encounter minorities on the internet. 

But it makes them feel good. 

It is so much easier to denounce racism on the internet than it is to actually interact with people of other races and ethnicities in real life.  

You're the same guy who tsk-tsk'd me for not engaging in dialogue, right?  You lead with this post of garbage assumptions and then want to dialogue?  Yeah, that's not gonna fly.

 

11 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

I know, even after islander told us he's a man of color, one poster went ahead and explained to islander how opressed islander actually was, and I'm the one who gets a post insinuating hatefulness and that I'm a liar. Like I said Guilt blinds a lot of people. 

  I debated writing the last two post, I saw Nemesis in the back of my mind the whole time I was writing it, but I can't stand white men insinuating a man of color (islander) is even close to what the KKK believed. If I get punished by a moderator so be it. I'll take it!! The KKK insinuations against a man of color has got to stop. 

And, again, your chance to exercise that reading comprehension skill flew right by you.

[Danzo]

2 minutes ago, ttribe said:

You're the same guy who tsk-tsk'd me for not engaging in dialogue, right?  You lead with this post of garbage assumptions and then want to dialogue?  Yeah, that's not gonna fly.

I don't really see much dialoge so nevermind, continue as your were.

[Calm]

30 minutes ago, Danzo said:

being a little bit sarcastic, but just a little. 

Yeah, when you are calling someone else out for making extreme statements, it is probably best to avoid them yourself, imo.