Paradise and prison

[JAHS]

This is a little different from the topic on Hell so I made a separate post.

First question:
Are paradise and spirit prison two separate places that are physically apart from each other? The following scripture would suggest that are not two physically separated places.

Alma said:
"11 Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection-Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life.
12 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow
13 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.
14 Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection.(Alma 40:11-14).

Note that Alma uses the word "state," not "place." I suggest that spirits that are in spirit prison and paradise are most likely all together in the same spirit world, but the righteous are in a state of peace, and the wicked are filled with fear and dread of the final judgment as if in a state of imprisonment. We are all there together in various states of righteousness and wickedness attempting to continue to perfect ourselves if that is our desire.

Second related question:
In Alma 34 it says:

33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.  (Alma 34:33-34).

In D&C 138: 32 it says:
"Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets."

Does this mean that those who have heard the gospel but have rejected it have a second chance to be taught the gospel again and repent?
This seems contradictory to what Alma said about bringing the same spirit with you into the spirit world.  If they don't have a second chance then why preach to them?

[Duncan]

15 minutes ago, JAHS said:

This is a little different from the topic on Hell so I made a separate post.

First question:
Are paradise and spirit prison two separate places that are physically apart from each other? The following scripture would suggest that are not two physically separated places.

Alma said:
"11 Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection-Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life.
12 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow
13 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.
14 Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection.(Alma 40:11-14).

Note that Alma uses the word "state," not "place." I suggest that spirits that are in spirit prison and paradise are most likely all together in the same spirit world, but the righteous are in a state of peace, and the wicked are filled with fear and dread of the final judgment as if in a state of imprisonment. We are all there together in various states of righteousness and wickedness attempting to continue to perfect ourselves if that is our desire.

Second related question:
In Alma 34 it says:

33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.  (Alma 34:33-34).

In D&C 138: 32 it says:
"Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets."

Does this mean that those who have heard the gospel but have rejected it have a second chance to be taught the gospel again and repent?
This seems contradictory to what Alma said about bringing the same spirit with you into the spirit world.  If they don't have a second chance then why preach to them?

well, I think Elder McConkie and his FIL, President Smith disagreed about whether they are seperate or all together. I think the teaching of teh Church is those who rejected the gospel here have it again preached to them in the spirit world but if they accept it would go to the Terrestrial Kingdom, so those who have never heard of the Gospel, accept it, go to the CK. Now, what constitutes hearing the gospel? I think that is open to debate but we aren't the judges of that. I think President Nelson said we do the work they do the choosing

[CV75]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

This is a little different from the topic on Hell so I made a separate post.

First question:
Are paradise and spirit prison two separate places that are physically apart from each other? The following scripture would suggest that are not two physically separated places.

Alma said:
"11 Now, concerning the state of the soul between death and the resurrection-Behold, it has been made known unto me by an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life.
12 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow
13 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil—for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house—and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil.
14 Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection.(Alma 40:11-14).

Note that Alma uses the word "state," not "place." I suggest that spirits that are in spirit prison and paradise are most likely all together in the same spirit world, but the righteous are in a state of peace, and the wicked are filled with fear and dread of the final judgment as if in a state of imprisonment. We are all there together in various states of righteousness and wickedness attempting to continue to perfect ourselves if that is our desire.

Second related question:
In Alma 34 it says:

33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.

34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.  (Alma 34:33-34).

In D&C 138: 32 it says:
"Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets."

Does this mean that those who have heard the gospel but have rejected it have a second chance to be taught the gospel again and repent?
This seems contradictory to what Alma said about bringing the same spirit with you into the spirit world.  If they don't have a second chance then why preach to them?

RE: Alma and paradise, I think it depends on how finely you divide it: for example, in one sense we are one planet where the dominions of the saints of God are small. I am sure we are organized after physical death, whether by assignment or preference and associate with whomever we will associate (for better or worse).

RE: D&C 138, verse 10 says, “For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit". From D&C 76: 73-75 we learn that every captive in spirit prison may be freed and enter the highest kingdoms. For example, those in the terrestrial kingdom receive the testimony of Jesus eventually, but may still hold to some preferences (whether to live without law or with the blindness implanted by craftiness) into the next life. That is up them; freedom, law and vision will not be forced upon them.

I think what Alma means is that there can be no labor performed on your own. The unrepentant spirit, on his own, is without baptism, the gift of the Holy Ghost, temple ordiances and sealing, etc. That is where the preaching to and our work for the dead comes into play.

[AtlanticMike]

Here's a simple chart that has them separated. 

[JAHS]

40 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Here's a simple chart that has them separated. 

I have seen many charts like that. The great gulf that separates Paradise from spirit prison was removed when Christ was crucified and He went and organized missionary work in the spirit world as described in D&C 138.  So it is possible that the spirits are all together now in one place, although they may tend to naturally congregate together in like groups.
 

[JLHPROF]

I've never quite made up my mind concerning this.
In the same way I've never quite decided if the three degrees of glory are separate locations.

D&C 88:37 And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom.

This indicates different kingdoms are in different spaces.
But then we have Revelation 21 indicating that this earth will be our Celestial Kingdom and God will dwell here with us, but we also know that God already inhabits another Celestial Kingdom.
So there are multiple Celestial kingdoms, which probably means multiple Telestial and Terrestrial kingdoms.  We currently dwell in a Telestial sphere.  Who knows what physical location the final judgement will use for the Telestial or Terrestrial?

I've kind of given up on the geography of eternity except as an interesting topic for speculation.

Edited March 2, 2021 by JLHPROF

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, JAHS said:

.....................

12 And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow.........................

Luke 23:43, “And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise” (Greek Παραδείσῳ); 2 Corinthians 12:4-5, “he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.  Of such an one will I glory“ (Greek Παράδεισον).

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, AtlanticMike said:

Here's a simple chart that has them separated. 

Simple?  Looks more like a quantum entanglement, multiple-slit experiment.

[AtlanticMike]

5 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Simple?  Looks more like a quantum entanglement, multiple-slit experiment.

Well, I was kidding, usually I put a smiley face with one of my jokes but I didnt this time, I wanted to see what would happen. 😁

[JAHS]

5 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Luke 23:43, “And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise” (Greek Παραδείσῳ); 2 Corinthians 12:4-5, “he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.  Of such an one will I glory“ (Greek Παράδεισον).

 

Not sure what you point is quoting that scripture but I tend to think in this case Paradise and spirit world are interchangeable.

The Alma 30:11 scripture says

"the spirits of all men, as soon as they are departed from this mortal body, yea, the spirits of all men, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God who gave them life."

To me that means they are all taken to God who is of course in a state of Paradise, but afterwards because of their wickedness put themselves in a state of imprisonment (or Spirit Prison)

[Ahab]

This was all explained by gramps quite a while ago.  Sheesh.  How many times do we need to keep repeating the same information?

[JLHPROF]

And then there's Joseph's statement that "Paul saw the third heavens, and I more."

[JAHS]

39 minutes ago, Ahab said:

This was all explained by gramps quite a while ago.  Sheesh.  How many times do we need to keep repeating the same information?

We don't all live on this board and see everything that is posted. 

[InCognitus]

4 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

D&C 88:37 And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom.

This indicates different kingdoms are in different spaces.
But then we have Revelation 21 indicating that this earth will be our Celestial Kingdom and God will dwell here with us, but we also know that God already inhabits another Celestial Kingdom.
So there are multiple Celestial kingdoms, which probably means multiple Telestial and Terrestrial kingdoms.  We currently dwell in a Telestial sphere.  Who knows what physical location the final judgement will use for the Telestial or Terrestrial?

I wouldn't assume from this that there are multiple Celestial kingdoms.  It could be that the earth, once it is celestialized, just becomes part of the one and only Celestial Kingdom.  (Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated... or cut off from it).  I see these kingdoms as various areas that accommodate the kind of people that are able to dwell there. 

[Robert F. Smith]

5 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

Well, I was kidding, usually I put a smiley face with one of my jokes but I didnt this time, I wanted to see what would happen. 😁

And I was kidding also. 

[Robert F. Smith]

Here is a Korean Buddhist version of what happens when a righteous man dies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njbZmGSTTxY