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Fair Mormon's new YouTube branding strategy


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21 hours ago, juliann said:

That only works if "the rudeness" is the same. It isn't. This isn't mean spirited. It's not vulgar. It's very consistent with comedy today minus those things. At that point, you have to make the argument that "apologists" shouldn't be funny. Just..... because. And Jesus. Or something.

First, this isn't "the church." Come on. I suspect they are reaching for the same audience. Throwing standards in sounds more like an ad hominem cheap shot.  Again, you need to demonstrate that this is comparable to what critics put out day in and day out.  That podcast with Thrones in the name comes to mind. That was considered funny by it's audience, correct? No comparison. 

Talking about "standards" is a cheap shot? I have no idea what you are talking about.

No. I do not need to demonstrate that FAIR's videos are as bad as what critics do. That only matters if one has the same expectations of FAIR and the Critics, which I don't. The only question is about whether FAIR's video series T.I.T.S is appropriate or not and reflects the values of the Church it is attempting to uphold. By your logic FAIR could do anything as long as they were slightly less offensive than Infants on Thrones. Is that podcast even around still?

If the argument is, "we're not quite as bad as them", then you lose the argument. But bravo on setting the bar for FAIR so low.

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FairMormon does not have a T.I.T.S series. They have a This is the Show series, also known as TS series. 
 

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58 minutes ago, Analytics said:

Yes, that is my point. I've listened to a couple Infants on Thrones podcasts, and I found them funny and clever. But apparently faithful saints find it mocking and offensive. In contrast, many faithful Saints find the TITS videos to be great fun, while I find it to be mocking people who think the CES letter makes some really good points.

I looked up the cliche on Quora, and this is what somebody says it means:

It depends on whose ox is gored” is a metaphor whose image comes from an agricultural setting.

Imagine that two oxen get in a fight, and one injures or kills the other with his horns. (That is, gores the other ox.) What is the proper compensation to the owner of the injured ox that should be paid to the owner of the other one? The person who lost his ox might argue for a higher amount than a disinterested observer would.

The implication of the phrase is that while there are rules that everyone should follow, people might be less willing to follow the letter of the law when their own interests are at stake.

Thanks for clarifying.  Glad to know I did understand what you meant.  And you are probably right.  Most of us tend to react more strongly to those things that affect us, especially if they affect us negatively.  

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6 minutes ago, Calm said:

FairMormon does not have a T.I.T.S series. They have a This is the Show series, also known as TS series. 
 

They desperately need to change that.  Ignoring half of the letters in the name because the actual initials are cringey isn't likely to hold up.

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37 minutes ago, bluebell said:

They desperately need to change that.  Ignoring half of the letters in the name because the actual initials are cringey isn't likely to hold up.

I'd like to know who came up with the show's name. I think it's Kwaku. *Edited to delete things that I've no proof, sorry for misinformation. And maybe I'm coming down too hard on the guy.

 

Edited by Tacenda
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16 minutes ago, Calm said:

FairMormon does not have a T.I.T.S series. They have a This is the Show series, also known as TS series. 
 

Unbelievable that we have people in here objecting to the videos because they are mocking who then take every opportunity to use misogynistic slang as a mocking slur. 
 

My point is that to accuse someone of being on low ground you have to stand on high ground. There are grounds to criticize these videos but they hurt my feelings [misogynist slur] isn’t a very effective one. 

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10 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'd like to know who came up with the show's name. I think it's Kwaku, and don't trust that guy at all. He swears, and likes to stir it up. And he like's to spice things up according to this youtube: 

 

He seems sketchy.  Time will tell I guess.

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25 minutes ago, bluebell said:

They desperately need to change that.  Ignoring half of the letters in the name because the actual initials are cringey isn't likely to hold up.

I agree. But let’s be clear that label is being imposed on FM by others.  It wasn’t chosen anymore than derogatory nicknames are chosen.  
 

And I think its use might turn into a good measure on who actually wants to have a serious discussion for positive change and who wants to get a chance to lob criticisms at FM. 

Edited by Calm
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20 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'd like to know who came up with the show's name. I think it's Kwaku, and don't trust that guy at all. He swears, and likes to stir it up. I let the swear words go at moments too, not judging, but really wonder if Kwaku did name the show since he like's to spice things up according to this youtube below and reading an article in the BYU newspaper about his parties he and his friend started where he basically said, take that b*tches, concerning having the the dance parties.

 

There are people who are encouraging others to lie about Kwaku, so unless you actually see him doing something and not just a critic reporting it, you should be careful in accepting it as fact. 

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3 minutes ago, Calm said:

I agree. But let’s be clear that label is being imposed on FM by others.  It wasn’t chosen anymore than derogatory nicknames are chosen.  
 

And I think its use might turn into a good measure on who actually wants to have a serious discussion for positive change and who wants to get a chance to lob criticisms at FM. 

I agree that it's hard to take anyone seriously who complains about being disrespectful while continuing to use those initials to refer to the show.

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14 minutes ago, Calm said:

There are people who are encouraging others to lie about Kwaku, so unless you actually see him doing something and not just a critic reporting it, you should be careful in accepting it as fact. 

I edited my post, thank you for knocking a little sense in me. :)

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1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

I edited my post, thank you for knocking a little sense in me. :)

He is not perfect, nor should truly inappropriate behavior be waved away as no big deal, but seeing as he is rather an unusual individual with not too many role models whose paths he can follow, I have quite a bit of sympathy for him, though fun being a trailblazer, it is also hard work. He is having to cut through his own way using trial and error more than the rest of us. And his mistakes are going to be more public given he is a public figure to a great extent. 

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5 minutes ago, Calm said:

He is not perfect, nor should truly inappropriate behavior be waved away as no big deal, but seeing as he is rather an unusual individual with not too many role models whose paths he can follow, I have quite a bit of sympathy for him, though fun being a trailblazer, it is also hard work. He is having to cut through his own way using trial and error more than the rest of us. And his mistakes are going to be more public given he is a public figure to a great extent. 

Which is a gentle way of saying there is racism involved. 

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9 minutes ago, juliann said:

Which is a gentle way of saying there is racism involved. 

That and the role he has taken on as activist, apologist, celebrity...I just don’t remember anyone else trying to do those things all at once who was active in the Church and succeeding. Even two at once.  Being black really complicates all the strands. 

Edited by Calm
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1 hour ago, Calm said:

You know you don’t have to continue to use TITS and can instead switched to the preferred TS or use FM videos or a practically endless number of alternate names. By using TITS, your comments about class and good taste, etc ring rather hollow. 
 

 Neither FM nor most faithful Saints I have seen use TITS to identify the videos.

 

I have a hard time believing that the acronym isn't intentional. I mean, if they wanted a name that riffs off of "this is the place," they could have chosen lots of words to replace "place" that don't start with the letter S. Maybe they thought the acronym wasn't going to be so obvious and this would be an inside joke?  Don't blame me for the name they chose.

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I am not blaming you for their poor choice. I am blaming you for your poor choice to take advantage of it while acting as if trying to appeal to people’s better natures. Your reasoning reminds me of a boy named Rick being bullied by kids who called him ****, wasn’t their fault his parents named him Richard. 

Edited by Calm
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1 hour ago, Calm said:

I am not blaming you for their poor choice. I am blaming you for your poor choice to take advantage of it while acting as if trying to appeal to people’s better natures. Your reasoning reminds me of a boy named Rick being bullied by kids who called him ****, wasn’t their fault his parents named him Richard. 

It's more like a boy who named himself Richard because he thought it would be funny to have the nickname ****.

The folks at FAIR are aware of acronyms. That is why their organization is called the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research and not the Defensive Institute of the Celestial Kingdom.

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1 hour ago, Analytics said:

 

The folks at FAIR are aware of acronyms. That is why their organization is called the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research and not the Defensive Institute of the Celestial Kingdom.

In exactly the same way, they don't expect people to use the initialism FFAIAR. Even in your example insisting on using the initial letter every word would be DIOTCK.  Most people are intelligent enough to know we don't have to represent every word in a title or name. Otherwise we should complain that people us USA rather than USOA. The list would go on and on. 

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3 minutes ago, kllindley said:

In exactly the same way, they don't expect people to use the initialism FFAIAR. Even in your example insisting on using the initial letter every word would be DIOTCK.  Most people are intelligent enough to know we don't have to represent every word in a title or name. Otherwise we should complain that people us USA rather than USOA. The list would go on and on. 

But that would require a single standard. 

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2 hours ago, juliann said:

But that would require a single standard. 

I would think the single standard is to use the acronym that was intended when they chose the name.

Forgive me for belaboring the point, but which of the following do you think is true?

A- They named their series "This Is The Show" without noticing what its acronym spelled.

B- They knew what the acronym spells, but thought "This Is The Show" is such a perfect title they went with it, despite its unfortunate acronym.

C- They chose to name it "This Is The Show" because they thought the acronym was funny.  

The correct answer to that question is obvious. I might be crass for calling it by the acronym they chose, but please remember they chose it, not me. 

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5 hours ago, Analytics said:

It's more like a boy who named himself Richard because he thought it would be funny to have the nickname ****.

The folks at FAIR are aware of acronyms. That is why their organization is called the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research and not the Defensive Institute of the Celestial Kingdom.

I am part of FM. I am part of the discussion going on now, though not previously but those who were are also in the discussion. The name was not chosen because it spelled TITS. It was chosen because of the reference to This is the place. The possibility of the acronym was not ignored, it just wasn’t seen as important. 
 

I think they were wrong.  I agree it was poor judgment, even imo rather stupid...I have done stupid things from time to time so I hope those who made the decision won’t be offended by my calling the decision that. They already know I think it was the wrong decision.  My issue here is the mindreading of intent. 
 

You are engaging in mindreading when you start ascribing motivations. But you go right ahead and pretend you know more about how FairMormon thinks than a member of FairMormon. 

Edited by Calm
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On 11/30/2020 at 8:06 PM, Nevo said:

I watched a couple of the videos. The production values are good and the hosts are naturals in front of the camera. But the content.

I'm surprised FairMormon is lending its name to this. Especially after spending years trying to moderate its tone. I'm sure Scott Gordon had the best of intentions, but I think these videos are a terrible idea. Millennial/Gen-Z types "comedically taking down anti-Mormonism" probably sounded like a good pitch, but in practice it just feels wrong. It is pretty hard to reconcile this show with Elder Holland's "Tongue of Angels" talk. True, that's a high bar, and just about all of us fail at speaking "with care, and by constraint of the Spirit." But there's something particularly cringe-inducing about priesthood holders performing as insult comics in defense of the Church of Jesus Christ. The whole business is unseemly and degrading. 

I looked at a couple of the videos.  Different strokes for different folks.  The style might not appeal to the academic types but for the regular person, it could work better than something technical and boring especially to a millennial, Gen Z crowd.  Every individual responds to something differently and if we only package things one way, we will only reach some people.  I don't care for the name but then again, my mind generally does not default in looking at the acronyms in names.  They should change that part.

Edited by carbon dioxide
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1 hour ago, Calm said:

I am part of FM. I am part of the discussion going on now, though not previously but those who were are also in the discussion. The name was not chosen because it spelled TITS. It was chosen because of the reference to This is the place. The possibility of the acronym was not ignored, it just wasn’t seen as important. 
 

I think they were wrong.  I agree it was poor judgment, even imo rather stupid...I have done stupid things from time to time so I hope those who made the decision won’t be offended by my calling the decision that. They already know I think it was the wrong decision.  My issue here is the mindreading of intent. 
 

You are engaging in mindreading when you start ascribing motivations. But you go right ahead and pretend you know more about how FairMormon thinks than a member of FairMormon. 

There is a radio station I sometimes listen to that is targeting people in their 20's. One of their D.J.'s loves using the word "tits" as an adjective (e.g. "this new song by Volbeat is totally tits!"). I easily imagine the stars of T.S. using that word in that way, and thinking that the acronym was funny. Whether or not I was being charitable by imagining that rather than assuming they made a "rather stupid" decision depends upon one's sensibilities. In any case, thank you for letting me know the inside scoop.

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2 minutes ago, Analytics said:

In any case, thank you for letting me know the inside scoop

Why am I getting the feeling I just got misinterpreted...

Edited by Calm
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