Surprising Finding About Families During Covid

[bsjkki]

https://www.deseret.com/indepth/2020/9/21/21436378/byu-afs-2020-covid-19-families-relationships-grow-stronger-not-weaker-pandemic-coronavirus

Personally, I've enjoyed the slower pace and fewer commitments. My spouse and I have spent more time together doing things we enjoy together. It's been nice.

Edited September 22, 2020 by bsjkki

[JamesBYoung]

Same here.

[poptart]

Love to see the breakdown on this, how many were middle to upper middle class.  I've heard the opposite from cop friends and family.  This kinda reeks of privilege to me.

[Rain]

2 hours ago, poptart said:

Love to see the breakdown on this, how many were middle to upper middle class.  I've heard the opposite from cop friends and family.  This kinda reeks of privilege to me.

But is that wealth or the job? With all the protests and riots that could cause family stress.  I know it has in law enforcement wives and family members I have heard from online.

[Calm]

Here is the survey report page with links to all reports so far:

https://www.deseret.com/pages/american-family-survey-reports

It is an annual event, though relatively new. 
 

Quote

The American Family Survey is an annual, nationwide study of 3,000 Americans by the Deseret News and the Center for the Study of Elections and Democracy at Brigham Young University. Conducted first in 2015, the survey is designed to reveal the experiences of Americans in their relationships, marriages and families, and how those experiences relate to a variety of current events and public policy issues.

Current year:

https://media.deseret.com/media/misc/pdf/afs/2020-AFS-Final-Report.pdf?_ga=2.17543167.796557780.1600792605-1866406932.1600792605

It took place in July, wonder if the stress of online or home school or any conflict between parents over schooling choices might have an impact at this point. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Calm

[bsjkki]

As someone I know put it, "The people who had family to isolate with have done well. But the broken homes in our society are having a different experience in this pandemic." I agree the breakdown demographics would be interesting but 'families' exist in all income demographics. Here is more information on the 2020 Family Survey https://www.brookings.edu/events/the-2020-american-family-survey-attitudes-toward-family-covid-19-politics-race-and-economic-well-being/

@Calm Thanks for posting!

Edited September 22, 2020 by bsjkki

[bsjkki]

"We find no evidence of large increases in loneliness in2020, compared to similar questions asked in2019. Across both years, the most important predictor of increased loneliness appears to be whetheror not someone is in a committed relationship. On the whole, family relationships appear to provideresources and support for navigating the coronavirus, not cause additional stress and difficulty. In thissense, families and relationships may be the lifeline through COVID-19, not the casualty of it. Theresources provided in times of challenge and the defense against loneliness provided by romantic part-ners are another reason why the steady increase in Americans saying they are not in any relationshipmay be cause for concern."

[Calm]

It has some interesting findings on political issues as well.  Just bringing them up to encourage reading, not to bring into discussion.  No need to respond.
 

One of them.... 
 

Quote

Our interpretation of these results is that white Democrats have embraced the cause of police brutality and violence against Black citizens, to some degree even more than have Black citizens themselves. The broader public is less convinced of this cause, though there clearly is some level of agreement with it across most demographic groups. Republicans, however, generally do not agree with that statement.

 

[bsjkki]

Also this section:

Race, Family, & COVID

Most Americans believe that Black families “face obstacles that white families don’t face,” though thisbelief is heavily conditioned on partisanship. About eight out of ten Democrats believe that while onlya quarter of Republicans believe it. Only one out of every ten Black respondents disagreed with thestatement. Liberal whites actually agree with the statement more often than do Blacks.Significant numbers of protesters reported protesting racial inequalities—as high as15% among Blacksand14% among Democrats, and though lower numbers reported protesting COVID restrictions (typ-ically around7%) the numbers still suggest a large number of unrest in the country relative to otheryears.There is a slight trend upwards among all groups for most identities (e.g., career, family status, race,etc.). Consistent with previous years, we find that Black Americans have the highest levels of identifi-cation with their role as parents (87%) of any demographic groups we analyzed"

The report is really interesting. No political debate please.

Edited September 22, 2020 by bsjkki

[Calm]

Screenshot of demographics, note 39% high school or less for likely lower income respondents:

[Calm]

If you look at the survey, it deals with very specific questions about responses to Covid and includes questions that target lower income, less privileged families so as to indicate numbers involved. I don’t know how this matches general population though. 
 

For example:

Edited September 22, 2020 by Calm

[poptart]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

If you look at the survey, it deals with very specific questions about responses to Covid and includes questions that target lower income, less privileged families so as to indicate numbers involved. I don’t know how this matches general population though. 
 

For example:

Hence why I'd be reluctant to buy it.  People lie all the time, if you're middle class and are religions or have religious family it is socially expedient to tow the party line.  Religion here stateside is very political and backstabby, also easy to lie about affiliation unless the likes of pew research start asking for things like baptismal certs when they ask the are you a Christian question. 

To be fair, if I was from an LDS family i'd say the same thing too, next to the Catholic Church you guys are one of the few left in the states that does much for their own at all, hence why I think a lot of Utah has been spared the rage we've seen elsewhere, for now.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, poptart said:

Hence why I'd be reluctant to buy it.  People lie all the time, if you're middle class and are religions or have religious family it is socially expedient to tow the party line.  Religion here stateside is very political and backstabby, also easy to lie about affiliation unless the likes of pew research start asking for things like baptismal certs when they ask the are you a Christian question. 

To be fair, if I was from an LDS family i'd say the same thing too, next to the Catholic Church you guys are one of the few left in the states that does much for their own at all, hence why I think a lot of Utah has been spared the rage we've seen elsewhere, for now.

While done by BYU, it is not limited to LDS or Utah. 

[poptart]

On 9/22/2020 at 7:17 PM, Calm said:

While done by BYU, it is not limited to LDS or Utah. 

I'd still be curious about what existing support networks they have, wealth etc.  Also, to be fair I have been exposed to a lot more disfunction so I do have a bias.  (At least I admit it.)

Guess we'll see in a year or so where all this leads.

[The Nehor]

On 9/22/2020 at 8:18 AM, poptart said:

Love to see the breakdown on this, how many were middle to upper middle class.  I've heard the opposite from cop friends and family.  This kinda reeks of privilege to me.

Look up police domestic abuse rates before the pandemic. Yeah.......

[Kenngo1969]

On 9/22/2020 at 10:46 AM, bsjkki said:

"We find no evidence of large increases in loneliness in2020, compared to similar questions asked in2019. Across both years, the most important predictor of increased loneliness appears to be whetheror not someone is in a committed relationship....

Well, duh!  No wonder I'm so lonely!

 

[poptart]

21 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Look up police domestic abuse rates before the pandemic. Yeah.......

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-08-18/intimate-partner-violence-spiked-80-after-pandemic-lockdown-began

 

Times like this make me glad my father's dead, that man was a violent fiend.  Sometimes someone dying is the best thing that can happen between you.  At least mom can spend the rest of her days in peace. 

[NoahVail]

On 9/22/2020 at 9:18 AM, poptart said:

Love to see the breakdown on this, how many were middle to upper middle class.  I've heard the opposite from cop friends and family.  This kinda reeks of privilege to me.

This is kind of subjective. After a few years of little to no food, being able to pay the bills feels at least 2 classes above where we were.

With that, this has been our best pandemic ever. I love meeting over Zoom and not in our VERY, VERY LOUD chapel. I love Sundays with no crowds and sharply reduced politics. Everything that was awful about Sunday was gone.

Regarding the study, I'd say we're aligned with it - though the partner thing may not apply because my wife lives with her bf. However, my kids and I are happy to be housed up together. Three-of-Five and I are busy returning a couple of ancient cars to the road.

[NoahVail]

2 hours ago, poptart said:

Times like this make me glad my father's dead, that man was a violent fiend.  Sometimes someone dying is the best thing that can happen between you.  At least mom can spend the rest of her days in peace. 

Hear hear. My dad's preferred method of birth control was beating my mom in her 3rd trimester.

We need a discussion one day about temple work. I explained eternal families to one of my new sisters and the thought of eternity with my father fully horrified her.  I'm reserving his temple work to prevent it from being done.

[poptart]

18 hours ago, NoahVail said:

This is kind of subjective. After a few years of little to no food, being able to pay the bills feels at least 2 classes above where we were.

With that, this has been our best pandemic ever. I love meeting over Zoom and not in our VERY, VERY LOUD chapel. I love Sundays with no crowds and sharply reduced politics. Everything that was awful about Sunday was gone.

Regarding the study, I'd say we're aligned with it - though the partner thing may not apply because my wife lives with her bf. However, my kids and I are happy to be housed up together. Three-of-Five and I are busy returning a couple of ancient cars to the road.

Been there, know the feel.  Doesn't help that a lot of food banks have little to nothing decent, people suck.

That's one of my biggest gripes about wards, the loud chapels and the annoying bratty children.  I'll admit it, I have little patience for children here but geez it got on my nerves so fast.  As far as Christian orgs go, I could go to a traditional Catholic parish, even some more old school Lutheran and probably Episcopal churches and see discipline and order (esp. the former), not with the LDS church.  My mom would have let me have it if I had done a fraction of the things those entitled brats pulled, the it takes a village attitude irritates me to no end, and people wonder why more men are just dropping out and doing their own things.  And of course politics, yeah the reason why my life sucks is because of the LGBT population and people darker than me, has nothing to do with the entitled individual who's reflection I can see in the mirror.....

18 hours ago, NoahVail said:

Hear hear. My dad's preferred method of birth control was beating my mom in her 3rd trimester.

We need a discussion one day about temple work. I explained eternal families to one of my new sisters and the thought of eternity with my father fully horrified her.  I'm reserving his temple work to prevent it from being done.

Mine never did that, my half brothers would have snitched on him to the cops and he'd have ended up in a jail.  Esp. then locals were not too fond of people like my father, he'd have made a nice play thing in general population especially since he'd have gone in for spousal and child abuse.  As I was older I'd have to stand up to him, usually would end up with weapons drawn, was the only thing that made him stop.  He was a well educated bully who was terrified of death, watching him die in the hospital bed was quite satisfying.  Lesson learned, smoking and alcoholism combined with opiates kill, no meds a doctor can prescribe will fix it unless you're willing to change.  It's sad what domestic violence does to a family, even worse when you realize how little the USA does for those who are poor, cept throw them in jail when they get out of line.  Will be fun to see how things get in this country in a few years when people run out of places to flee, especially families.

New sisters?

Edited September 28, 2020 by poptart

[NoahVail]

4 hours ago, poptart said:

That's one of my biggest gripes about wards, the loud chapels and the annoying bratty children.  I'll admit it, I have little patience for children here but geez it got on my nerves so fast.  

And of course politics, yeah the reason why my life sucks is because of the LGBT population and people darker than me, has nothing to do with the entitled individual who's reflection I can see in the mirror.....

Mine never did that, my half brothers would have snitched on him to the cops and he'd have ended up in a jail. 

New sisters?

Loud - It's our PA system that's overly loud.  As in, rattle your teeth, reverb off your skull loud. Even tho the median age of our ward is death, the old people all sit up front & it's the 1st overflow where volume is set to 1 gazillion. We mentioned it for about a year and eventually gave up. We now leave to the RS room after sacrament gets passed.

Kids - I'll disagree with you all day long about entitled children. After five kids I can't promise to be unbiased but it is my nature to throw shade on me+my world, when deserved. Kids get a pass from me because misbehaving is part of the process - of accumulating & learning to exercise power, which is their only job. The adults' job is to show them them a better way, for as long as it takes a child to figure out how incorporate it. Every inch of it is an imperfect and messy system. Demonizing kids (overtly or indirectly) for learning via the the only path available to them is a stupidly cruel and very adult thing to do. (This isn't directed at you, btw, but at the class to which we both belong.)

To dogpile on, I'll add that every wrong thing ever originates from adults. That makes them the most unqualified class possible to harshly judge child behavior.

Politics- I am so very tired of ceaseless, non-stop politics. My Sunday time on ward property ought to be reasonably safe from the most defacatious part of the world. It isn't. The ideology addicts in my ward can't put it down.

Abuse - From the 1970s and earlier, men typically got a pass for brutalizing their wives and children. A little gaslighting from cops quickly taught women and children that police weren't there to protect or serve them. Things are obviously different now but for most of US history everyone but men were on their own. For the same reasons, kids who were sexually abused never, ever went to cops. *From my perspective, most abuse after the 1st occurrence can be laid at the feet of the people who's actual job it was to stop it.

Sisters - Yeah, new sisters. After one of his wives had enough of being pushed down stairs pregnant or getting her neck broken w/ a bakelite phone, he'd move on to the next one. I have one sister from an earlier marriage & one from a later. We're tight now. They're new because I was an adult before I learned about them; we've been in communication for about 4 years. The younger one I found on Ancestry so kudos to the Church, for the endless, low-grade pressure to start my family history work.

* edit: added "From my perspective" to boost the reasonableness & make it less declaratory. I'll defend it either way tho.

Edited September 28, 2020 by NoahVail

[poptart]

1 hour ago, NoahVail said:

Loud - It's our PA system that's overly loud.  As in, rattle your teeth, reverb off your skull loud. Even tho the median age of our ward is death, the old people all sit up front & it's the 1st overflow where volume is set to 1 gazillion. We mentioned it for about a year and eventually gave up. We now leave to the RS room after sacrament gets passed.

Kids - I'll disagree with you all day long about entitled children. After five kids I can't promise to be unbiased but it is my nature to throw shade on me+my world, when deserved. Kids get a pass from me because misbehaving is part of the process - of accumulating & learning to exercise power, which is their only job. The adults' job is to show them them a better way, for as long as it takes a child to figure out how incorporate it. Every inch of it is an imperfect and messy system. Demonizing kids (overtly or indirectly) for learning via the the only path available to them is a stupidly cruel and very adult thing to do. (This isn't directed at you, btw, but at the class to which we both belong.)

To dogpile on, I'll add that every wrong thing ever originates from adults. That makes them the most unqualified class possible to harshly judge child behavior.

Politics- I am so very tired of ceaseless, non-stop politics. My Sunday time on ward property ought to be reasonably safe from the most defacatious part of the world. It isn't. The ideology addicts in my ward can't put it down.

Abuse - From the 1970s and earlier, men typically got a pass for brutalizing their wives and children. A little gaslighting from cops quickly taught women and children that police weren't there to protect or serve them. Things are obviously different now but for most of US history everyone but men were on their own. For the same reasons, kids who were sexually abused never, ever went to cops. *From my perspective, most abuse after the 1st occurrence can be laid at the feet of the people who's actual job it was to stop it.

Sisters - Yeah, new sisters. After one of his wives had enough of being pushed down stairs pregnant or getting her neck broken w/ a bakelite phone, he'd move on to the next one. I have one sister from an earlier marriage & one from a later. We're tight now. They're new because I was an adult before I learned about them; we've been in communication for about 4 years. The younger one I found on Ancestry so kudos to the Church, for the endless, low-grade pressure to start my family history work.

* edit: added "From my perspective" to boost the reasonableness & make it less declaratory. I'll defend it either way tho.

Ops, my mistake.  Was thinking of the one I went to, entitled suburbanites who thought they were better than those different from them and up until we've had the chaos we had would always be able to get away with it, watching them cringe and in some cases flee is quite entertaining.

I'm not going to bother with that, telling you now we'll argue and I don't feel like creating a flame war, that's that. 

I partially agree with the adults part for this reason, it's easier to raise a strong child then fix a broken adult, think this culture is about to learn that one the hard way.

Totally agree on the abuse part, that's exactly what happened to me.  Only reason why I didn't get totally ruined was I knew enough of the legal system and was able to one up my legal scholar of a father, that and he was dying from COPD and only had a few years to go.  The charge that was almost thrown at me happens for a reason, there's a ton of cases where an angry child (usually the son) looses it for that reason, has a violent parent/step parent threaten them and they get backed into a corner and snap, the cops hate having to respond to those, when mine did what he did which almost got my mom killed the cops showed up with ar15s.  Covid has made that a lot worse yet as always it gets swept under the rug, we'll see how they handle things when some places end up running out of funds for jails.  That's one reason why a lot of the bad guys hardly spend any time in jail, they're full and they just don't have the resources like they used to.  If they'd had focused on mental health and rehab when they had the chance US society would have produced far fewer monsters than they have.  Here we are.

Hey, I didn't know hence why I asked.  Know how that goes, had friends who grew up in situations just like that.  Alcohol was involved?  Ones I knew usually had someone who had issues with the law, once the other drugs came into their lives they also ran the risk of being charged with an illegal substance which of course made everyone else suffer.  If they're going to keep softer drugs illegal I wish they'd focus more on rehab and job placement, that stuff harms everyone especially the children.  Now that part I'll totally agree with on kids, pushing them into that is something society should do a lot more for instead of just shoving psyche meds down their throats.  One abusive parent I knew joined the LDS church just to exploit their welfare system, meanwhile she was dating a string of druggie boyfriends, one who I'm sure was raping her 12 year old son.  If it wasn't for me turning them into the local PD, doubt anyone would have done anything.  Big suprise, cops nor social services could do much, they still far more than a lot of other places i've lived.  Sad thing is for most poor people the only mental health care they get is in a prisons psyche ward, once they get out they have a felony and no one will hire them.  Worked in homes for these people before, sad thing is since many are on disability the first thing they do is buy drugs. People can argue to just throw them back in jail, it's just cheaper to let them overdose. 

Don't take that as me hating on single parents, mom raised me on her own so I've seen a lot of bad fathers, despite what many may say this country does little for them and their children.  For a first would country that's sad.

 

 

[NoahVail]

18 hours ago, poptart said:

I'm not going to bother with that, telling you now we'll argue and I don't feel like creating a flame war, that's that. 

 

Why not? I'm sure two guys with chip on their shoulders can have a perfectly civil discussion about stuff that gets their haunches up.

[poptart]

1 hour ago, NoahVail said:

Why not? I'm sure two guys with chip on their shoulders can have a perfectly civil discussion about stuff that gets their haunches up.

Children do mean things and need discipline, from what i've seen a lot of parents here stateside expect society to do their job.  I'm all for institutions but I'm not going to agree that some entitled brat from the suburbs is innocent, no way.  I know better than to open my mouth IRL, it takes a village for me, rugged individualism is a thing so I figure let the entitled idiots destroy each other while I stand back and smile as it all burns.  No compassion for the entitled, it's that simple and I don't budge. 

[poptart]

6 minutes ago, poptart said:

Children do mean things and need discipline, from what i've seen a lot of parents here stateside expect society to do their job.  I'm all for institutions but I'm not going to agree that some entitled brat from the suburbs is innocent, no way.  I know better than to open my mouth IRL, it takes a village for me, rugged individualism is a thing so I figure let the entitled idiots destroy each other while I stand back and smile as it all burns.  No compassion for the entitled, it's that simple and I don't budge. 

Disclaimer I toss out on that is I draw the line with child abuse and the disfunctional parenting we see nowadays, that part makes me wish this country had laws like other countries do when it comes to child welfare.  Even if the child is a loud annoying thing no child deserves to be harmed by a predator.  The fact that society turns a blind eye to a lot of the sex tourism that happens in US society makes me sick beyond belief.  Of course when those kids grow up due to the lack of funding for therapy in many places the cycle repeats itself.  Plenty of conservative suburbanite types are all for building more jails at the expense of schools until it's their child that's harmed by someone.  Funny how that goes, screw the poor yet we all have to come together for the children especially mine!  The Jesus of suburbia said so!  Going to be interesting as white flight is increasingly becoming a hard option for many.  That and unless you're in the right field going abroad is difficult, even then there's an adjustment.  I like the African proverb, if you don't initiate children into the village they'll return as adults to burn it down.

 

 

 

Not sure how that happened, just wanted to edit the first post, opsie.....

Edited September 29, 2020 by poptart