Surprising Finding About Families During Covid

[NoahVail]

16 minutes ago, poptart said:

Children do mean things and need discipline, from what i've seen a lot of parents here stateside expect society to do their job. 

So, I came up with a couple of response options.

tl;dr Option: Most parents have little choice except for society to take on some of the load, because their daily demands outstrip available parental resources.

Or the Verbose Seminar Option

What we had for most of human history: Generational families in ongoing physical proximity, toiling toward the family good. Children routinely roamed unsupervised, developing critical independence & interaction skills.

What it's been replaced with: Families segmented by separate responsibilities and distance. Parenting that used to take place over a complete daytime has to be done in brief intervals, requiring tight scheduling and for parents to be at the absolute top of their game - while compensating for the loss of the historical support system. Top of Game is increasingly unlikely while parents are exhausted from dozens of disparate, complex responsibilities while their abilities are eroded thru stress and ordinary trauma.

Unsupervised time (necessary for child development) is associated with neglect & endangerment (this association is fueled by ceaseless messages of stranger abduction risk that isn't remotely supported by LEO stats). What is an actual risk for children is a lifetime of punishment as society's knee-jerk response to children trying to puzzle out their exponentially complex world while all of history's avenues of learning have been cut off from them.

Any preference in option?

[NoahVail]

1 hour ago, poptart said:

The fact that society turns a blind eye to a lot of the sex tourism that happens in US society makes me sick beyond belief.

I think it's less that society turns a blind eye to US domestic sex trafficking and more that US news orgs reflexively parrot LEO's routinely overblown claims about trafficking, without ever vetting them first.

[NoahVail]

2 hours ago, poptart said:

I figure ...

Your suppositions are perfect openers for nearly every societal rant I have. I feel like I should contribute to your kickstarter or something.

[poptart]

19 hours ago, NoahVail said:

So, I came up with a couple of response options.

tl;dr Option: Most parents have little choice except for society to take on some of the load, because their daily demands outstrip available parental resources.

Or the Verbose Seminar Option

What we had for most of human history: Generational families in ongoing physical proximity, toiling toward the family good. Children routinely roamed unsupervised, developing critical independence & interaction skills.

What it's been replaced with: Families segmented by separate responsibilities and distance. Parenting that used to take place over a complete daytime has to be done in brief intervals, requiring tight scheduling and for parents to be at the absolute top of their game - while compensating for the loss of the historical support system. Top of Game is increasingly unlikely while parents are exhausted from dozens of disparate, complex responsibilities while their abilities are eroded thru stress and ordinary trauma.

Unsupervised time (necessary for child development) is associated with neglect & endangerment (this association is fueled by ceaseless messages of stranger abduction risk that isn't remotely supported by LEO stats). What is an actual risk for children is a lifetime of punishment as society's knee-jerk response to children trying to puzzle out their exponentially complex world while all of history's avenues of learning have been cut off from them.

Any preference in option?

My preference would be, hands down the generational family.  That's how it still is in a lot of the world, I still have family outside of the mainland that's kind of like that and despite what many may think, it works. 

Here's my opinion on how families here are, I agree with you on your critiques.  However, I do see it as a two way street.  Long ago people chose to move away from their families for work opportunities, I often wonder how many of them had to do that.  I had family on the other half that did, while they did end up quite well off in the end their family went down the drain and all the wealth was fought over and lost.  Of that branch, i'm the last male left and considering how I am it pleases me to know i'll be taking that line to the grave. 

Many nowadays do choose to opt out of family life here stateside for the reasons you stated, the lemon is not worth the squeeze.  I'm sure there's plenty of privileged people out there who would argue other wise, their opinions on the topic mean absolutely nothing to me. 

19 hours ago, NoahVail said:

I think it's less that society turns a blind eye to US domestic sex trafficking and more that US news orgs reflexively parrot LEO's routinely overblown claims about trafficking, without ever vetting them first.

I'd disagree but that's me. 

19 hours ago, NoahVail said:

Your suppositions are perfect openers for nearly every societal rant I have. I feel like I should contribute to your kickstarter or something.

Donations are always greedily accepted. 

[poptart]

2 minutes ago, poptart said:

My preference would be, hands down the generational family.  That's how it still is in a lot of the world, I still have family outside of the mainland that's kind of like that and despite what many may think, it works. 

Here's my opinion on how families here are, I agree with you on your critiques.  However, I do see it as a two way street.  Long ago people chose to move away from their families for work opportunities, I often wonder how many of them had to do that.  I had family on the other half that did, while they did end up quite well off in the end their family went down the drain and all the wealth was fought over and lost.  Of that branch, i'm the last male left and considering how I am it pleases me to know i'll be taking that line to the grave. 

Many nowadays do choose to opt out of family life here stateside for the reasons you stated, the lemon is not worth the squeeze.  I'm sure there's plenty of privileged people out there who would argue other wise, their opinions on the topic mean absolutely nothing to me. 

I'd disagree but that's me.  Epstein and pizza gate still make me wonder.

Donations are always greedily accepted. 

 

[Kenngo1969]

On 9/29/2020 at 12:19 PM, NoahVail said:

I think it's less that society turns a blind eye to US domestic sex trafficking and more that US news orgs reflexively parrot LEO's routinely overblown claims about trafficking, without ever vetting them first.

Yeah, I'm sure they're overblown.  Nothing to see here, folks!  Move along!

[NoahVail]

On 9/30/2020 at 9:48 AM, poptart said:

My preference would be, hands down the generational family.  That's how it still is in a lot of the world, I still have family outside of the mainland that's kind of like that and despite what many may think, it works.

I'm all-the-way behind this. Whatever we traded family-based child/aged care for, we got scammed.

The pressure to chop up and scatter families (shaming @home 20yo, zoning laws, corp-centric job markets) shapes every inch of modern living.

[NoahVail]

23 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Yeah, I'm sure they're overblown.  Nothing to see here, folks!  Move along!

An About Us page? That seems an odd substitute for sourced, reviewable data from an independent body.

[Kenngo1969]

 

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Yeah, I'm sure they're overblown.  Nothing to see here, folks!  Move along!

 

1 hour ago, NoahVail said:

An About Us page? That seems an odd substitute for sourced, reviewable data from an independent body.

Yep!  It's just as I said!  There's nothing here to see, folks!  Nothing at all!  

Would you have the same cavalier attitude if it were something happening to your kid?  (You don't owe me an answer, but ...)

[poptart]

56 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

 

Yep!  It's just as I said!  There's nothing here to see, folks!  Nothing at all!  

Would you have the same cavalier attitude if it were something happening to your kid?  (You don't owe me an answer, but ...)

Finally someone gets it.  I'd think more people would have that in the back of their heads, especially considering how apathetic most single people can be towards the plight of families nowadays.  There's a ton more people like me out there vs. the privileged few out there who had theirs growing up and now have to raise kids in this world.  I'd think knowing just how many people like me are laughing at all this behind the safety of a pc monitor while a lot of the bad stuff is happening would make them think twice about just how dangerous things are nowadays.  Guess not...

Edited October 1, 2020 by poptart

[NoahVail]

10 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Yep!  It's just as I said!  There's nothing here to see, folks!  Nothing at all!  

Would you have the same cavalier attitude if it were something happening to your kid?  (You don't owe me an answer, but ...)

Okay. We've invited me into a mindbogglingly unlikely horror fantasy, where my kid gets sex trafficked. (Was he stranger-kidnapped too? If so, I'll need even more commas to property express those odds.)

So the question is how would I feel about LEO leveraging my kid's very personal nightmare & spinning it into a mostly fictional dystopia where sex traffickers are so prevalent & so powerful that parents could reasonably go day to day believing kids were in actual danger?

I'd be pretty cheesed off.

edited for spleling.

Edited October 2, 2020 by NoahVail

[Kenngo1969]

36 minutes ago, NoahVail said:

Okay. We've invited me into a mindbogglingly unlikely horror fantasy, where my kid gets sex trafficked. (Was he stranger-kidnapped too? If so, I'll need even more commas to property express those odds.)

 

Like I said, you don't owe me an answer.  Have a nice evening.

[Chum]

5 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Like I said, you don't owe me an answer.

It was more like

Quote

(You don't owe me an answer, but ...)

One could reasonably take your but w/ trailing ellipses as a nebulous invitation. So I did.

(I also changed username btw)

[The Nehor]

14 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Yeah, I'm sure they're overblown.  Nothing to see here, folks!  Move along!

That organization is wonderful. I spoke with one of the leaders once. A lot of their work is done outside the U.S. Trafficking in minors is not particularly prevalent in the U.S. compared to other nations. Human trafficking in the US tends to be more for labor exploitation. The majority of sex abuse against minors comes from their own family or with their family’s knowledge (often sold).