Update on Story Re: Missing Kids (Daybell)

[Tacenda]

This is in progress but very interesting. 

 

[Calm]

Summary?

[Tacenda]

7 hours ago, Calm said:

Summary?

I'm not so great at remembering, I listened throughout the night. From my awful memory it's a couple that speaks about their experience with Julie Rowe and them getting invited to these meetings that Julie puts on. One function was at the Tabernacle in Rexburg, I believe. Which was a packed crowd. Then this couple would go to more in depth meetings for select few and were taught about multiple mortal probation. I had to look it up and found this article, which may be where the group got their ideas: https://askgramps.org/multiple-mortal-probations-doctrine/ At about 1:20 in the podcast? And a member of the group was making advances toward the couple's wife, who are the ones being interviewed on the podcast. And after skimming the Ask Gramps article, I guess the guy making advances thought she would be his wife most likely, but not sure since I haven't finished the podcast. 

But I slept through most of it, and woke up and clicked where I thought I left off.  I'll try to listen again. 

ETA: Found this as well, can't believe these so called members of the church that believe Julie Rowe and attend the temple etc. actually believed this since the church certainly didn't teach it really. https://nisikitchen.com/lzcsrp/lds-church-multiple-probations

Edited July 30, 2021 by Tacenda

[smac97]

7 hours ago, Calm said:

Summary?

A few notes on the first 45 minutes (listened to at 1.75 speed, so bear with me) :

"Girl on Fire" is an anonymous person who apparently was previously a fan of Chad Daybell and/or Julie Rowe.  She's married.  Lived in Louisiana, then moved back to Vernal, Utah, then to east Idaho (apparently in or around Rexburg).  They started to get into the "preparedness" and a book, "A Greater Tomorrow" (written by Rowe, published by Daybell).  The book was about Rowe's NDEs and prophecies of forthcoming calamities.  

At this time she had just had a baby, and had massive post-partum depression.  The above book helped her come out of it.  She felt better.  They started doing food storage and other things.  They also had further spiritual experiences.  She became involved with "AVOW" ("A Voice of Warning"), which she found somewhat offputting.  A lot of confusion, a lot of people saying different things.  Julie started creating different groups, almost all of which were men.  Julie started recruiting them to be "warriors, healers, bodyguards," things like that.  She never included these men's wives in these discussions.  These women started to have a lot of drama between them.  Catfighting, jealousy, keeping secrets.  Julie Rowe was creating this environment by encouraging these people to factionalize, selecting some to be "in" and others not.  Lots of exclusive meetings.  Julie began to be less communicative at this point.  "Girl on Fire" and her husband were not as adversely affected by all this as compared to other couples.  

"GTRF" - "Greater Tomorrow Relief Fund."  Lots of donations.  Apparently supposed to help immigrants.  It apparently never took off.  Julie sent out conference calls for GTRF, but started being selective and secretive.  She started creating an "inner circle," mostly in Idaho.  

[Tacenda]

23 minutes ago, smac97 said:

A few notes on the first 45 minutes (listened to at 1.75 speed, so bear with me) :

"Girl on Fire" is an anonymous person who apparently was previously a fan of Chad Daybell and/or Julie Rowe.  She's married.  Lived in Louisiana, then moved back to Vernal, Utah, then to east Idaho (apparently in or around Rexburg).  They started to get into the "preparedness" and a book, "A Greater Tomorrow" (written by Rowe, published by Daybell).  The book was about Rowe's NDEs and prophecies of forthcoming calamities.  

At this time she had just had a baby, and had massive post-partum depression.  The above book helped her come out of it.  She felt better.  They started doing food storage and other things.  They also had further spiritual experiences.  She became involved with "AVOW" ("A Voice of Warning"), which she found somewhat offputting.  A lot of confusion, a lot of people saying different things.  Julie started creating different groups, almost all of which were men.  Julie started recruiting them to be "warriors, healers, bodyguards," things like that.  She never included these men's wives in these discussions.  These women started to have a lot of drama between them.  Catfighting, jealousy, keeping secrets.  Julie Rowe was creating this environment by encouraging these people to factionalize, selecting some to be "in" and others not.  Lots of exclusive meetings.  Julie began to be less communicative at this point.  "Girl on Fire" and her husband were not as adversely affected by all this as compared to other couples.  

"GTRF" - "Greater Tomorrow Relief Fund."  Lots of donations.  Apparently supposed to help immigrants.  It apparently never took off.  Julie sent out conference calls for GTRF, but started being selective and secretive.  She started creating an "inner circle," mostly in Idaho.  

Next time I need a detective I'm hiring you! Thanks Smac!

[smac97]

2 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Next time I need a detective I'm hiring you! Thanks Smac!

No detective work.  Just a sloppy note-taker.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

Thanks…that coincides with what I have seen from the public side.  Rowe got increasingly conspiracy oriented with herself at center stage, had a bodyguard, lived in a donated house, was pushing the GTRF big time, saying it was better than the Church’s as it would be shared with everyone, not just church members…major misrepresentation of church’s position…and then the organization dropped off of anywhere I could find anything, including tax records last I checked.  Her stuff was so self centered as time went on…and constantly changing.  She was begging news media to use her as a source for Daybell-Vallow stuff.  I believe Nancy Grace was the only consistent one.  I remember Rowe saying something about the media would regret ignoring her.  She went from ‘Daybell is a great hero and friend even if he is ignoring me at the moment’ to ‘he sexually assaulted me’ when it became obvious there was a crime involved.  Can’t remember if that was before or after the bodies were found.
 

And then I heard she was divorced.

She started out claiming no authority, she was just an observer and the ones to follow were priesthood holders to becoming one of the Davidic King’s inner circle who would lead God’s warriors.  I am guessing she saw the attention the men were getting with their claims of spiritual power, including from women, and wanted much the same…so imitated what she saw others doing with their inner circles.  But the last is pure or rather impure speculation.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

Emails related to Arizona police investigation:

https://www.azfamily.com/news/continuing_coverage/missing_idaho_kids/notable-photos-and-emails-lori-vallow-case/collection_c151878c-f023-11eb-a54e-d7973988f0c1.html

[Calm]

 

Quote

NEW: Via State of Idaho’s iCourt portal, judge has dismissed older charges vs Chad Daybell & Lori Vallow. 2 counts of destroying evidence/2 counts of conspiring to conceal evidence for Daybell - dismissed. Same 2 counts of evidence conspiracy for Vallow dismissed. The motions were made by prosecutor Rob Wood. Still - Daybell/Vallow face murder charges in deaths of JJ Vallow, Tylee Ryan & Tammy Daybell. But Lori’s case remains on hold. #fox10phoenix

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=382055006618662&id=100044424966565

[Calm]

An interview with a man Chad allegedly try to recruit…have bothered listening to it. Not a good time for me to do so.  Websleuths say it is very interesting hearing the spiel  

 

 

[Calm]

I have been reading up on the legal dynamics of the case translated for the layperson by Lori ____, also known as the Good Lori on Websleuths. 

I recommend it for the nonlawyers among us interested in the case.  It is rather interesting to see which of her predictions have been accurate.  I find her responsible in identifying speculation as well as discouraging the emotional reactions from overtaking the analysis (for example, there are a lot of malicious comments about the defense lawyers out there; she keeps focused on whether they are doing their job and doesn’t label them as immoral because of it or stupid, smug, etc).

She provided a bit on grand juries I found interesting. I just assumed they were standard, but in many states, including Idaho, a prosecutor can choose either a grand jury or a preliminary hearing. We saw a preliminary hearing with the original charges for CD. 
 

So why the grand jury this time around?

Quote

The reason Rob Wood and Rachel Smith have asked the court for a grand jury rather than a preliminary hearing must be obvious by now. Compare what we saw at Chad Daybell’s preliminary hearing on the current charges with the grand jury process. The advantage is that grand juries are secret. The secrecy is vital in this case because of all the pretrial publicity. Prosecutors do not want their case made public for fear it will further taint the jury pool with information about the case.

https://thelorivallowstory.com/archive/whats-so-grand-about-a-grand-jury

[Calm]

Observation by the Good Lori on why lesser charges were likely dismissed and not consolidated:

Quote

I think I said in an earlier newsletter that I thought Wood would either consolidate the cases or dismiss the earlier charges. Could Wood prove the destruction of the evidence charges? Sure. But why take the focus off the more serious charges, or give the jury something less to resort to if they can't reach an agreement? Incidentally, the charges were dismissed "without prejudice," which means they could be refiled at any time within the statute of limitations.

https://thelorivallowstory.com/archive/madam-lori-answers-all

Edited August 1, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

There is a side drama going on in that Mark Means, LVD’s lawyer, apparently shared confidential info with a Youtuber, Awen Rees (think that is the name).  Rees has been playing all sides it seems to try and get inside info and it worked with Means. 
 

The Good Lori’s analysis:

Quote

1. Why would Mark Means give discovery information to a YouTuber who has made it clear that she believes his client is guilty? Good question. I think Mark Means is way over his head. I think he's over his head when it comes to his knowledge of criminal law, but I also think he's way over his head in terms of resources. If you have someone offer to give you free help in that situation, you jump at it. If they ask for favors in return, you give them.

 

1. What is the consequence to Mark Means if it's proven that he shared confidential information with a YouTube creator? It is possible Means could be suspended from practice or even disbarred. There is nothing in the ethical rules that would permit Means to share information with someone his office did not employ. Lawyers are required to supervise their employees. If an employee violates an ethical rule, it's the lawyer who receives the consequence

Same link as above 

Quote

1. What might the consequences be to the case of the association between Means and the YouTube creator? There is an excellent reason for the confidentiality and publicity rules. That reason is that the defendant is entitled to a fair and unbiased trial before a jury of their peers. Widespread publicity can cause potential jurors to form preconceived opinions about the case and make it more difficult to find an impartial jury. The pretrial publicity CANNOT force a mistrial. The judge can declare a mistrial only if there is some misconduct after the jury is seated. Likewise, an appeal for ineffective assistance of counsel is nearly impossible. The standard for overturning a conviction because of ineffective counsel is very hard to meet. The defendant has to prove that the outcome of the case would have been different but for their lawyer's action or inaction. This case has some similarities and some differences to the Jodi Arias case. In the Arias case, there was a gag order. There is no gag order in this case. However, a defense attorney shouldn't need a gag order to know it's wrong to share confidential information with a YouTube creator. In the Arias case, the prosecutor, Juan Martinez, agreed to surrender his law license rather than have a protracted fight over his disbarment. He was accused of several things. He was accused of having leaked the identity of a juror to a blogger with whom he had a sexual relationship and then lying to investigators about it. He was also accused of sexually harassing female employees.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

Just as an FYI, the prosecutor has till August 8th to file that they want a death penalty attached to the case. Everyone I have read expects this to happen. 

[Tacenda]

Very interesting youtubes, one is about a feasible way that Alex and Tammy could have been killed. Octopus venom possibly? Or he brings up dust from malachite powder:  https://us.vwr.com/assetsvc/asset/en_US/id/8200653/contents. And that is the ring that Lori bought on Amazon, so maybe they thought it fitting? Sick if so! Then he mentions a neighbor, a farmer, to the Daybell's that died almost the same way and it having to do with him possibly seeing Chad and Alex with JJ on the property. He would check the ditches nearby and make sure the water was flowing. The second video goes into that. Hear the specifics at 38 min. in on this second video.

Fell upon this article: https://www.beadnova.com/blog/20193/is-malachite-toxic-to-humans

Is Malachite Toxic To Touch?

Malachite can be considered toxic to touch if it is in broken-down form, specifically, when it is still being processed. However, if it is set on a ring or any other jewelry, the risk of toxicity is minimal or virtually non-existent.

Keep in mind that any gemstone that has copper content poses the same kinds of risk as malachite.

The phenomenon is not limited to malachite alone. However, if you think of creating a gemstone elixir or crystal elixir, under no circumstances should you place malachite anywhere near your drinking water.

Regardless of its esteemed metaphysical properties, it should never be submerged in water, and you must never drink anything that has been exposed to malachite in any form or fashion.

Since malachite is not very expensive as a gemstone, it’s understandable that some people desire to add this mineral to their collection for making crystal elixirs. However, the risks will far outweigh the potential benefits, so we certainly do not recommend it.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Tacenda

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

And that is the ring that Lori bought on Amazon, so maybe they thought it fitting?

Malachite was listed as having some sort of healing power in the Pawlowski (husband of LVD’s niece who wrote up what she told him) file (found by his ex wife on a laptop he gave her iirc, been over a year so I may be wrong), so that has been speculated on a lot since the beginning iirc. 
 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Calm

[bsjkki]

 

[Calm]

Highly expected by pretty much everyone, but I can hear the sighs of relief without looking. 
 

Some of those focused on the case as least as much as I am actually want them dead and I can’t guess if that is a majority or minority, but almost all want them in prison the rest of their lives. I say almost merely as a precaution due to my lack of absolute knowledge, not because I have seen anyone saying they would prefer the pair get so many years and then get paroled or released.  And having the death penalty attached is seen as making that more likely to happen. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Calm

[smac97]

Death penalty

https://www.ksl.com/article/50218878/idaho-prosecutors-say-theyll-seek-death-penalty-for-chad-daybell-

[Kenngo1969]

You know, something occurs to me.  I don't know if LVD's crazy act (if act it be) is going to end up serving her well in the long term.  I know next to nothing about the ins-and-outs of trying cases simultaneously versus separating them, and perhaps the more legally erudite among us have thought this through better than I have.  However, the fact that the Court found LVD incompetent virtually assures that the cases will not be tried simultaneously, meaning that a common defense strategy of having each co-defendant point fingers at the other in an attempt to create reasonable doubt as to who actually did what won't be available to Mr. Daybell or to Ms. Vallow-Daybell.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Kenngo1969]

Re: Octopus venom

Man, there are easier ways to kill somebody.  How the heck would someone in a landlocked state even get his or her hands on something like that?  If someone wants to get his or her hands on something that is deadly but that, nonetheless, is hard to trace, antifreeze works well, and it's available at practically any auto parts store, for goodness' sake.

[Ipod Touch]

6 hours ago, smac97 said:

Death penalty

https://www.ksl.com/article/50218878/idaho-prosecutors-say-theyll-seek-death-penalty-for-chad-daybell-

As a younger man I was in favor of the death penalty.  Especially for people like Chad Daybell.

But these days I think that death is too easy an out for Chad.  Let him spend the rest of his life in a small isolated cell with 1 hr of outdoor/exercise time.  Let the full weight of his actions burden him until he is an old man.

[Tacenda]

8 hours ago, Ipod Touch said:

As a younger man I was in favor of the death penalty.  Especially for people like Chad Daybell.

But these days I think that death is too easy an out for Chad.  Let him spend the rest of his life in a small isolated cell with 1 hr of outdoor/exercise time.  Let the full weight of his actions burden him until he is an old man.

I agree as long as he's not given the ability to use the internet at his command or a large library of books and TV/movies. And not given the ability to have relationships, or be able to have a job in prison. All of these are better than someone that is home bound and lonely with no friends and possibly living dirt poor with no means to decent food, heat, air, clean water, safe environment, medical care etc. In prison they get all of this, now if he was in a China prison, I'm all for that. 

At least in prison in the USA you have friends handed to you, or you have to make friends because you see them everyday. But I see your point, I've felt that way before. But think Daybell needs to suffer in another place worse than prison at least. 

[Calm]

Death penalty qualified lawyer appointed for LVD:

 

[Calm]

Also:

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2021/08/new-attorney-appointed-as-co-counsel-for-lori-vallow-daybell/

Looks like East Idaho has added a new reporter to the Daybell story…I can’t believe I am familiar enough with this story to recognize the reporters typically involved.

I think Prior is still okay for CD, he has actually been pretty decent, but is not death penalty qualified so someone will need to be added as first chair if I understand correctly.  However, Mark Means is primarily civil and he has cited irrelevant civil law in a couple of his motions, so has shown he doesn’t know enough to provide a proper defense, so getting another lawyer on now makes sense.  I think LVD is getting close to the 90 day point where her incompetency is evaluated in court again to see if the case starts again (it gets put on hold technically since she can’t mentally contribute to her own defense), so the state appointing a lawyer for her now will allow for less delay for that lawyer to get up to speed.

also http://www.jimarchibaldlaw.com

Info provided mostly by websleuths today…besides seeing if East Idaho had a new article (it is the first place I always check), just using their links

Edited August 8, 2021 by Calm