Latter-Day Saints is preferred and "Mormons" is acceptable

[JulieM]

57 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You might not be aware of what went on before, but I think ALarson is. CaliforniaBoy was badgering me with questions I had already responded to (a violation of board guidelines, by the way), insisting on a yes or no answer to a question I had already responded to. ALarson and, iirc, Julie chimed in. I got fed up and said I wasn’t going to be bullied and badgered. Now, it appears JulieM, in true Kamala Harris fashion, is coming at me for another round. 

???

I honestly have no idea what you’re taking about here?  I admit I don’t remember every discussion, but I actually asked you that question because it seemed relevant to this discussion.  I’m fine if you choose not to answer it and haven’t even asked you again or referenced it again until you just did now.

Also, I’m not sure how Kamala Harris’s fashion enters in here? 🤣

Edited August 28, 2019 by JulieM

[Ahab]

43 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If a prophet says, “The Lord has impressed upon my mind that ...”, how is that <not> a revelation? Go ahead and take as many words as you like to respond. 

 The better question would be:

If a prophet says... no, scratch that, I'll start over now.

If a man who some people believe is a prophet says, "The Lord has impressed upon my mind that ..." how is that <not> a revelation?  The answer would be that maybe he would not have been speaking as a prophet when he said that.

Your original question is pretty much a no brainer, because if a man is speaking as a prophet, at which point we could correctly call him a prophet, he would be declaring a revelation from the Lord if he said he was.

 

[ALarson]

22 minutes ago, JulieM said:

???

I honestly have no idea what you’re taking about here?

He must be speaking of this:

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/72137-ed-smart-father-of-elizabeth-smart-announces-he-is-gay/?do=findComment&comment=1209923212

Hardly a pile on....that's quite an exaggeration (and you're correct that he's wrong about you).  I tried to clarify and said maybe I misunderstood and then advised moving on or starting a new thread to discuss it further because it was a derail.

But Scott did bring up Kamala Harris a few times on that thread too....LOL.  

[california boy]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You might not be aware of what went on before, but I think ALarson is. CaliforniaBoy was badgering me with questions I had already responded to (a violation of board guidelines, by the way), insisting on a yes or no answer to a question I had already responded to. ALarson and, iirc, Julie chimed in. I got fed up and said I wasn’t going to be bullied and badgered. Now, it appears JulieM, in true Kamala Harris fashion, is coming at me for another round. 

I was not badgering you.  I asked you a question and I was unclear what you meant by your answer.  So, being the kind of person that wants to understand what a poster means by his answer, silly me, I asked if you would clarify your answer.  You answered with the exact same answer.  How is that clarification.  So I asked you one more time, giving you the option to not answer at all if you didn't want to.  Yet again you answered with the exact same answer.

At that point, I realized that you had no intention of clarifying your answer.  I moved on.

How does that make you a victim is beyond me.  If you don't want to clarify your answer, then just say so and be done with it.  This little game you were playing by stating the exact same answer was not clarifying anything.  I wasn't the only one that was unclear what you meant.  Others asked if you would clarify and then you get in this snit as if you had clarified anything you said.  When in fact you did nothing to help me and others understand your point of view.  You are the only poster I know of that has a problem when someone doesn't understand your answer and is trying to understand your point of view better.  And now you are claiming you were bullied because I was seeking clarification of what you actually meant?  

Now you bring this all up again in a completely different thread when everyone was more than willing to move on.  Maybe next time, just say, "that is all I want to say.  If you don't understand what I am saying, then too bad. " 

Geeez.   

Edited August 28, 2019 by california boy

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, california boy said:

I was not badgering you.  I asked you a question and I was unclear what you meant by your answer.  So, being the kind of person that wants to understand what a poster means by his answer, silly me, I asked if you would clarify your answer.  You answered with the exact same answer.  How is that clarification.  So I asked you one more time, giving you the option to not answer at all if you didn't want to.  Yet again you answered with the exact same answer.

At that point, I realized that you had no intention of clarifying your answer.  I moved on.

How does that make you a victim is beyond me.  If you don't want to clarify your answer, then just say so and be done with it.  This little game you were playing by stating the exact same answer was not clarifying anything.  I wasn't the only one that was unclear what you meant.  Others asked if you would clarify and then you get in this snit as if you had clarified anything you said.  When in fact you did nothing to help me and others understand your point of view.  And now you are claiming you were bullied because I was seeking clarification of what you actually meant?  

Now you bring this all up again in a completely different thread when everyone was more than willing to move on.  Maybe next time, just say, "that is all I want to say.  If you don't understand what I am saying, then too bad. " 

Geeez.   

I've got to give credit where credit is due.   You made a good case in your defense.

[changed]

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

at which point we could correctly call him a prophet, he would be declaring a revelation from the Lord if he said he was.

 

so... what does everyone consider to be revelation from the Lord?  Clear, direct, "Thus saith g-d..." straightforward revelation?  

Mormon leader: Nicknames for faith are ‘victory for Satan’  https://www.apnews.com/cae38cf6254442ffb4a608b4a8fcf334

 

“When the Savior clearly states what the name of his church should be, and even precedes his declaration with, ‘Thus shall my church be called,’ he is serious,” Nelson said. “And if we allow nicknames to be used and adopt or even sponsor those nicknames ourselves, he is offended.”

Nelson, 94, who is considered a prophet, reiterated that his instruction is not a name change, The Salt Lake Tribune reported.

“It is a correction,” he said. “It is the command of the Lord.”

 

If there are no recent clear revelations, they are not a prophet in my opinion.  If there is a clear recent revelation - post a link to it, and explain why that was a revelation while other things... were not...

Edited August 28, 2019 by changed

[Ahab]

9 minutes ago, changed said:

so... what does everyone consider to be revelation from the Lord?  Clear, direct, "Thus saith g-d..." straightforward revelation?  

Let's differentiate between what people consider to be revelation and what actually is a revelation.  A revelation from God is a revelation from God even if some people don't consider it to be a revelation from God.

 

9 minutes ago, changed said:

If there are no recent clear revelations, they are not a prophet in my opinion.  If there is a clear recent revelation - post a link to it, and explain why that was a revelation while other things... were not...

A prophet is simply someone who says what the Lord would say, basically declaring the mind and will of the Lord to others.  It doesn't have to be a "new" revelation, or some new idea from God. Prophets can just repeat what God has already said to speak as a prophet.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Ahab

[MustardSeed]

8 minutes ago, changed said:

so... what does everyone consider to be revelation from the Lord?  Clear, direct, "Thus saith g-d..." straightforward revelation?  

If there are no recent clear revelations, they are not a prophet in my opinion.  If there is a clear recent revelation - post a link to it, and explain why that was a revelation while other things... were not...

Why challenge? 

If you believe something, say so.  But what is the purpose of the challenge? Doesn’t your own loss of faith hurt? Why undermine someone else’s faith?  It only does one of two things, either create defensiveness or it turns someone’s foundation upside down.  Is this the end goal? 

If you believe the president is not a prophet, that’s fine. ( I have my own beliefs on that, but don’t need anyone to agree with me. ) Why demand proof of something you already disagree with? 

 

[changed]

16 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Let's differentiate between what people consider to be revelation and what actually is a revelation.  A revelation from God is a revelation from God even if some people don't consider it to be a revelation from God.

 

A prophet is simply someone who says what the Lord would say, basically declaring the mind and will of the Lord to others.  It doesn't have to be a "new" revelation, or some new idea from God. Prophets can just repeat what God has already said to speak as a prophet.

Let's see a list of what you believe to be actual revelations from God - modern day please.  Just post links if you will?

everyone occasionally says what the Lord would say - occasionally tells others they love them, occasionally tells others uplifting things - everyone does this.  Show me something that differentiates what LDS believe to be prophets from everyone else.  

this is the kind of stuff going around... people getting warm fuzzied up... so.... what is the difference?

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by changed

[changed]

8 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Why challenge? 

If you believe something, say so.  But what is the purpose of the challenge? Doesn’t your own loss of faith hurt? Why undermine someone else’s faith?  It only does one of two things, either create defensiveness or it turns someone’s foundation upside down.  Is this the end goal? 

If you believe the president is not a prophet, that’s fine. ( I have my own beliefs on that, but don’t need anyone to agree with me. ) Why demand proof of something you already disagree with? 

 

why send missionaries out?  why try to convert others to your way of thinking?

everyone tries to convert others to their way of thinking.  Conversations are more interesting when talking with those who do not hold the same beliefs

there is nothing wrong with turning false foundations upside down.  if you lived in a community of... say Jeff warrens or something or young earth creationists who were missing out on things... or JW's who refused to give their young health care... changing their belief is helping them...

we all think our beliefs are right, and we all think converting others to our belief is helping them.  all apologists - no matter what they are defending - think they are helping people.  

Given new information, I have changed - change is how you progress, it is how you grow, how you learn... 

Turning a foundation upside down? or is it tearing down prison walls and opening up a whole new reality - a bigger world?  all depends on how open to new information and change you are I guess.  

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by changed

[Ahab]

1 minute ago, changed said:

Let's see a list of what you believe to be actual revelations from God - modern day please.  Just post links if you will?

What I consider to be revelation from God is irrelevant to what you should consider to be revelation from God.

From your own perspective you shouldn't consider anything to be revelation from God unless God personally assures you that what someone else has said, or what God says to you, is coming or has come from God, himself.

[Ahab]

4 minutes ago, changed said:

why send missionaries out?  why try to convert others to your way of thinking?

everyone tries to convert others to their way of thinking.  Conversations are more interesting when talking with those who do not hold the same beliefs

 

I'm not trying to convert you.  I want you to be converted by God, and God is the one who does that.  I'm just here to share what God has shared with me and maybe pick up some other ideas from what God has shared with other people who post here.

Not that I'm going to just automatically believe what some people say God has told them, but it would be food for thought that I can talk with God about.

Edited August 28, 2019 by Ahab

[Ahab]

18 minutes ago, changed said:

everyone occasionally says what the Lord would say - occasionally tells others they love them, occasionally tells others uplifting things - everyone does this.  Show me something that differentiates what LDS believe to be prophets from everyone else.  

The difference is between what the Lord would say or inspire others to say vs what the Lord would not say or not inspire others to say.  All truth is of God but when there is any error that error is not of God.

 

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, california boy said:

Now you bring this all up again in a completely different thread when everyone was more than willing to move on.  Maybe next time, just say, "that is all I want to say.  If you don't understand what I am saying, then too bad. " 

I didn’t bring it up again. ALarson did with this dig: 

“Yeah, good luck getting Scott to answer that question.” 

Up to that point, I was determined to ignore JulieM’s question, because it seemed she was trying to continue the badgering from the prior thread, and I decidedly did not want a continuation of it on this thread.

So you are just plain wrong when you say I “bring this all up again in a completely different thread.”

And when you come at me three or more times with a question that I’ve indicated I believe I have already answered, and when you say in effect that’s not good enough for you and you insist on a yes-or-no response, I’d call that badgering. 

I didn’t want this brought into this thread. I wanted to see it ended, and I thought it already had. Blame JulieM for posing the question yet again out of the blue and ALarson for the above sniping. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Scott Lloyd

[JulieM]

14 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Blame JulieM for posing the question yet again out of the blue...

?

CFR that I ever posed this question before?

You’re going off the rails here, Scott, with wild accusations.   My question was on topic (Prophet’s teachings being revelation) and I was not involved in whatever took place before.  Stop with the false accusations please.

Edited August 29, 2019 by JulieM

[Scott Lloyd]

19 minutes ago, JulieM said:

?

CFR that I ever posed this question before?

You’re going off the rails here, Scott, with wild accusations.   My question was on topic and I was not involved in whatever took place before.  Stop with the false accusations please.

I didn’t remember clearly whether you posed it before. That’s why I gave the iirc (if I recall correctly) qualifier. Maybe what I remember is that you gave one or more “like” points to CB and/or ALarson when they were doing the badgering on the prior thread. 

I don’t agree the question was on topic. It really did seem out of the blue to me. This is not a thread about the priesthood ban. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Scott Lloyd

[JulieM]

9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I didn’t remember clearly whether you posed it before. That’s why I gave the iirc (if I recall correctly) qualifier. Maybe what I remember is that you gave one or more “like” points to CB and ALarson when they were doing the badgering on the prior thread. 

I don’t agree the question was on topic.

Part of this discussion is centered on what constitutes revelation when teachings are spoken by a Prophet.  So my question was most definitely on topic.

And, my CFR stands.

When did I pose that question to you before?

Alarson gave the link to the discussion you’re upset about from before, so please answer the CFR and post a link to where I asked you that question.  (I was not involved and you owe me an apology here.)

Edited August 29, 2019 by JulieM

[Scott Lloyd]

5 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Part of this discussion is centered on what constitutes revelation when teachings are spoken by a Prophet.  So my question was most definitely on topic.

And, my CFR stands.

When did I pose that question to you before?

Alarson gave the link to the discussion you’re upset about from before, so please answer the CFR and post a link to where I asked you that question.  (I was not involved and you owe me an apology here.)

I just checked. No you did not pose the question on the prior thread, but you DID give a “like” point to ALarson when he chimed in. So you had to have been aware of what went on in the prior thread. 

I think you were trying to fan the flames and score points by repeating the question on this thread, and no, I won’t apologize for calling you out on it or refusing to be baited by your repetition of the question. 

[JulieM]

6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I just checked. No you did not pose the question on the prior thread, but you DID give a “like” point to ALarson when he chimed in. So you had to have been aware of what went on in the prior thread. 

I think you were trying to fan the flames and score points by repeating the question on this thread, and no, I won’t apologize for calling you out on it or refusing to be baited by your repetition of the question. 

Wow.  I use up all my “likes” almost every day.  I don’t remember every single topic and every single post I gave them for.   So no, I honestly didn’t remember that one discussion (I couldn’t figure out your first post about it on this thread.)

You’re out of line here and seem to be losing it on this thread, Scott, and I’ve tried to have a civil discussion with you, but I’m done.  So, carry on with your lies and false accusations.  

Edited August 29, 2019 by JulieM

[Scott Lloyd]

7 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Wow.  I use up all my “likes” almost every day.  I don’t remember every single topic and every single post I gave them for.   So no, I honestly didn’t remember that one discussion (I couldn’t figure out your first post about it on this thread.)

You’re out of line here and seem to be losing it on this thread, Scott, and I’ve tried to have a civil discussion with you, but I’m done.  So, carry on with your lies and false accusations.  

I only bring up the “like” point as evidence you were not unaware of what had gone on before. I question whether you have forgotten it already. It was only a few days ago. 

I think people are well past being bored with this conversation, so, unless there is a compelling need to continue it, this will be my last post on this matter. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Scott Lloyd

[JulieM]

6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I only bring up the “like” point as evidence you were not unaware of what had gone on before. I question whether you have forgotten it already. It was only a few days ago. 

It was 10 days ago and I wasn’t part of that discussion.  So, no, I did not remember it.  You’re completely out of line with your false accusations and insulting my integrity.  

6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think people are well past being bored with this conversation, so, unless there is a compelling need to continue it, this will be my last post on this matter. 

Ok.  That’s probably best.

Edited August 29, 2019 by JulieM

[Calm]

 

5 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think people are well past being bored with this conversation, so, unless there is a compelling need to continue it, this will be my last post on this matter. 

Well, I am having an urge to post a meme from Frozen and I don't believe I have ever posted a meme before in my entire existence, preexistence included!

[Scott Lloyd]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

 

Well, I am having an urge to post a meme from Frozen and I don't believe I have ever posted a meme before in my entire existence, preexistence included!

I admit I’m curious now, but please don’t post it. I really don’t want to continue this. 

[JulieM]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

Well, I am having an urge to post a meme from Frozen and I don't believe I have ever posted a meme before in my entire existence, preexistence included!

😂

Perfect!

You're the best, Calm!

[sunstoned]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I didn’t bring it up again. ALarson did with this dig: 

“Yeah, good luck getting Scott to answer that question.” 

Up to that point, I was determined to ignore JulieM’s question, because it seemed she was trying to continue the badgering from the prior thread, and I decidedly did not want a continuation of it on this thread.

So you are just plain wrong when you say I “bring this all up again in a completely different thread.”

And when you come at me three or more times with a question that I’ve indicated I believe I have already answered, and when you say in effect that’s not good enough for you and you insist on a yes-or-no response, I’d call that badgering. 

I didn’t want this brought into this thread. I wanted to see it ended, and I thought it already had. Blame JulieM for posing the question yet again out of the blue and ALarson for the above sniping. 

So put an end to it Scott.  Just answer the question.   I'm sure that would quiet everyone down.