poptart Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 This could get interesting.... https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/pope-francis-accused-of-heresy-by-clergy-and-theologians https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/prominent-clergy-scholars-accuse-pope-francis-of-heresy-in-open-letter The letter. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5983408-Open-Letter-to-the-Bishops-of-the-Catholic.html
The Nehor Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 It has been my dream since I was a little boy to see a real live antipope.....are my dreams about to come true?
poptart Posted April 30, 2019 Author Posted April 30, 2019 Just now, The Nehor said: It has been my dream since I was a little boy to see a real live antipope.....are my dreams about to come true? Dude, I want warhammer 40k tier fun, i.e horus heresy tier levels of epic.
The Nehor Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, poptart said: Dude, I want warhammer 40k tier fun, i.e horus heresy tier levels of epic. I liked the Horus Heresy tabletop game. I should try to find an opponent.
poptart Posted April 30, 2019 Author Posted April 30, 2019 Just now, The Nehor said: I liked the Horus Heresy tabletop game. I should try to find an opponent. Never thought i'd be posting these here, interesting times we live in. For the Emperor!
Robert F. Smith Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) Quote In their 20-page open letter, they list seven heresies that Pope Francis has fostered but make it clear, however, that these heresies do not touch his teaching office as pope. "It is agreed that no pope can uphold heresy when teaching in a way that satisfies the conditions for an infallible magisterial statement," they affirmed. They also are clear that no one has the authority to remove a sitting pope. Didn't we just have a thread on how to remove a sitting LDS President? Edited April 30, 2019 by Robert F. Smith
poptart Posted April 30, 2019 Author Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Didn't we just have a thread on how to remove a sitting LDS President? Here comes the Anti-pope, also unless my knowledge of LDS history fails me, they've not caused nearly the ruckus the Catholic church has over things like this, people back in the day died.... Forgot to add, there was a real famous German quite some time ago that got tired of the current Pope's/churches corruption, big things happened, best part was the creation of Prussia. Edited April 30, 2019 by poptart
Popular Post TOmNossor Posted April 30, 2019 Popular Post Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) I am sad for serious Catholics. During the Pontificate of John Paul II, I determined that the objective evidence favored LDS truth claims over Catholic truth claims. Catholic truth claims are weaker today because Pope Francis does not believe the Catholic Church is what previous Popes believed the Catholic Church was. I determined that the strongest pro-Catholic position was that of John Paul II when he was Pope. The position of the SSPX (Vatican II was not the 21st EC), the Sedavacntists (there is no Pope) and the radical liberals (Vatican II opened the door for radical reforms) were all weaker. Pope Francis has changed this. He has weakened the position that was strongest previously and added a non-commensurate bit to the other three positions. Today, if God told me the Book of Mormon was from the devil, I would worship with SSPX Catholics. But, no pro-Catholic position is as strong as the pro-Catholic position I evaluated during John Paul II pontificate. I am sad for serious Catholics. It IMO is not inappropriate for LDS to recognize the impact to Catholic truth claims produced by REAL issues (not just men disagreeing. Pres Hinckley councilled “Let us never act in a spirit of arrogance or with a holier-than-thou attitude. Rather, may we show love and respect and helpfulness toward them [not of our faith]. We are greatly misunderstood, and I fear that much of it is of our own making. We can be more tolerant, more neighborly, more friendly, more of an example than we have been in the past.” I am not teatering between the CoJCoLDS and the Catholic Church. If I was, Pope Francis would have a more profound impact upon me. Charity, TOm Edited April 30, 2019 by TOmNossor 5
6EQUJ5 Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, poptart said: This could get interesting.... https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/pope-francis-accused-of-heresy-by-clergy-and-theologians https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/prominent-clergy-scholars-accuse-pope-francis-of-heresy-in-open-letter The letter. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5983408-Open-Letter-to-the-Bishops-of-the-Catholic.html I hope the Catholic Church immediately excommunicates his accusers. Shameful on their part. Edited April 30, 2019 by 6EQUJ5
strappinglad Posted April 30, 2019 Posted April 30, 2019 We may see a different perspective from 3DOP if he posts about this. 1
Popular Post 3DOP Posted April 30, 2019 Popular Post Posted April 30, 2019 18 minutes ago, TOmNossor said: I am sad for serious Catholics. During the Pontificate of John Paul II, I determined that the objective evidence favored LDS truth claims over Catholic truth claims. Catholic truth claims are weaker today because Pope Francis does not believe the Catholic Church is what previous Popes believed the Catholic Church was. I determined that the strongest pro-Catholic position was that of John Paul II when he was Pope. The position of the SSPX (Vatican II was not the 21st EC), the Sedavacntists (there is no Pope) and the radical liberals (Vatican II opened the door for radical reforms) were all weaker. Pope Francis has changed this. He has weakened the position that was strongest previously and added a non-commensurate bit to the other three positions. Today, if God told me the Book of Mormon was from the devil, I would worship with SSPX Catholics. But, no pro-Catholic position is as strong as the pro-Catholic position I evaluated during John Paul II pontificate. I am sad for serious Catholics. It IMO is not inappropriate for LDS to recognize the impact to Catholic truth claims produced by REAL issues (not just men disagreeing. Pres Hinckley councilled “Let us never act in a spirit of arrogance or with a holier-than-thou attitude. Rather, may we show love and respect and helpfulness toward them [not of our faith]. We are greatly misunderstood, and I fear that much of it is of our own making. We can be more tolerant, more neighborly, more friendly, more of an example than we have been in the past.” I am not teatering between the CoJCoLDS and the Catholic Church. If I was, Pope Francis would have a more profound impact upon me. Charity, TOm I have been assisting at SSPX Masses since Jan 1, 2005. About ten days after I came to this forum. Since formally joining the Catholic Church in 1995, I have always held that Vatican II, is the 21st Ecumenical Council, whose promulgating pope, insisted, taught no infallible doctrines. Ironically, it is traditionalists like me, who agree with Pope Paul, who we do not like. Those who love Pope Paul, and call him St. Pope Paul, disagree with him about Vatican II! It's crazy. Do me a CFR. I'll show you what Pope Paul said on more than one occasion...let me get some sleep first. Tom...don't be sad for the serious Catholic. That would be misplaced. The seriously Catholic will not be misled by a pope who needs to repent. Be sad for the pope who isn't a serious Catholic. God have mercy on the Holy Father. 5
Robert F. Smith Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 44 minutes ago, TOmNossor said: .............................. I am sad for serious Catholics. It IMO is not inappropriate for LDS to recognize the impact to Catholic truth claims produced by REAL issues (not just men disagreeing. Pres Hinckley councilled “Let us never act in a spirit of arrogance or with a holier-than-thou attitude. Rather, may we show love and respect and helpfulness toward them [not of our faith]. We are greatly misunderstood, and I fear that much of it is of our own making. We can be more tolerant, more neighborly, more friendly, more of an example than we have been in the past.” ....................... Thank you, TOm, for that counsel from Pres Hinckley. It should be printed on the inside cover of every missionary manual (is it still Preach My Gospel?) 2
3DOP Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) 48 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said: I hope the Catholic Church immediately excommunicates his accusers. Shameful on their part. That is not the style nowadays. 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: It has been my dream since I was a little boy to see a real live antipope.....are my dreams about to come true? Probably not. I entertain the idea...but it is doubtful. I tend to think, in light of Catholic teaching about popes, that Francis, though a stinker, is probably not the antichrist. I am willing to be corrected on this point though. Edited May 1, 2019 by 3DOP
poptart Posted May 1, 2019 Author Posted May 1, 2019 23 minutes ago, 3DOP said: That is not the style nowadays. Probably not. I entertain the idea...but it is doubtful. I tend to think, in light of Catholic teaching about popes, that Francis, though a stinker, is probably not the antichrist. I am willing to be corrected on this point though. Keep up with groups like these? https://www.tfp.org/ http://cmri.org/ The former is well, kinda nuts. The latter pretty much split, calling Vatican 2 heretical. They do everything old school, they even have their own bishop. Needless to say, pretty sure they're not recodnized. Point i'm trying to make with that is I would think the powers that be would think long and hard before they start excommunicating people. People are mad, they are tired of a lot of the nonsense, from the pedo scandals to financial corruption many people have had it. They excommunicate the people who are backing this, all they'll do is throw white gas on an already raging fire. 1
poptart Posted May 1, 2019 Author Posted May 1, 2019 28 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Thank you, TOm, for that counsel from Pres Hinckley. It should be printed on the inside cover of every missionary manual (is it still Preach My Gospel?) I picture Hinkley up there with St. Francis and Bob Marley just chillin'. Bet those three are some of God's favorites.
3DOP Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, poptart said: Keep up with groups like these? https://www.tfp.org/ http://cmri.org/ The former is well, kinda nuts. The latter pretty much split, calling Vatican 2 heretical. They do everything old school, they even have their own bishop. Needless to say, pretty sure they're not recodnized. Point i'm trying to make with that is I would think the powers that be would think long and hard before they start excommunicating people. People are mad, they are tired of a lot of the nonsense, from the pedo scandals to financial corruption many people have had it. They excommunicate the people who are backing this, all they'll do is throw white gas on an already raging fire. Hey P.T. I am unfamiliar with TFP. I did thumbs up for other reasons. I know nothing of them, a little of CMRI. I have friends who were involved with CMRI. This is anecdotal...(not intended to mean much). They are happy that they had access to the Traditional Mass, but catechesis was lacking. I'd go to one of their Masses before a Novus Ordo (Mass of Pope Paul VI) to fulfill my obligation. That isn't saying much though. My last Novus Ordo, was at a wedding of one very beloved. I discreetly avoided receiving communion. Edited May 1, 2019 by 3DOP
CV75 Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 3 hours ago, poptart said: This could get interesting.... https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/pope-francis-accused-of-heresy-by-clergy-and-theologians https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/prominent-clergy-scholars-accuse-pope-francis-of-heresy-in-open-letter The letter. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5983408-Open-Letter-to-the-Bishops-of-the-Catholic.html And he said, "No, you're the only heretic I see around here!"
MiserereNobis Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 Man, I searched in vain in the letter for the charge that Pope Francis had had an audience with President Nelson. I thought for sure that would have topped the list. 4
MiserereNobis Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 3 hours ago, The Nehor said: It has been my dream since I was a little boy to see a real live antipope.....are my dreams about to come true? I know you say this tongue-in-check Nehor style, but just to clarify to everyone an anti-pope is someone who claims to be the pope but is not. It is not a pope that goes off the rails. There would have to be competing claims to the papacy, where one would be legitimate and the others would not. 2
MiserereNobis Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, 3DOP said: I have been assisting at SSPX Masses since Jan 1, 2005. In another thread I mentioned that I thought you attended SSPX masses. I did so, too, until the FSSP were invited into the diocese. Let's not quibble over the SSPX vs. FSSP issues; we're both traditional Catholics I do retreats at the SSPX monastery about 2 hours from my home, Our Lady of Guadalupe. It's a wonderful monastery and its expansion has been amazing over the years. ETA: I should say I'm a Catholic who very much prefers the traditional way of things. I think Rory/3DOP is much more of a traditional Catholic than I. Not that labels matter, but the world of traditional Catholicism is full of categories. Edited May 1, 2019 by MiserereNobis 4
Robert F. Smith Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, poptart said: I picture Hinkley up there with St. Francis and Bob Marley just chillin'. Bet those three are some of God's favorites. The LDS Hymnal has one of St Francis' hymns, "All Creatures of Our God and King," here rendered by the BYU Men's Chorus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny7mNzJK7ts . But, sorry, no Bob Marley. Edited May 1, 2019 by Robert F. Smith 1
poptart Posted May 1, 2019 Author Posted May 1, 2019 41 minutes ago, 3DOP said: Hey P.T. I am unfamiliar with TFP. I did thumbs up for other reasons. I know nothing of them, a little of CMRI. I have friends who were involved with CMRI. This is anecdotal...(not intended to mean much). They are happy that they had access to the Traditional Mass, but catechesis was lacking. I'd go to one of their Masses before a Novus Ordo (Mass of Pope Paul VI) to fulfill my obligation. That isn't saying much though. My last Novus Ordo, was at a wedding of one very beloved. I discreetly avoided receiving communion. Think what bothers me is how uncharitable they were to the poor. Tacoma had so many and it was the same attitude the protestants and everyone else had, they're poor because they offended God. Funny, they sure got upset at people for being just a bit liberal. The Trinitine mass is gorgeous, will give em that, just wish the people weren't so mean. Felt like if Jesus walked through the doors they'd want him arrested for being homeless. 3 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: In another thread I mentioned that I thought you attended SSPX masses. I did so, too, until the FSSP were invited into the diocese. Let's not quibble over the SSPX vs. FSSP issues; we're both traditional Catholics I do retreats at the SSPX monastery about 2 hours from my home, Our Lady of Guadalupe. It's a wonderful monastery and its expansion has been amazing over the years. I'll come out and say it, other big reason I never converted, i'm a freemason and well, at my core a total pagan. I do try to be nice but geez, Catholics hate our guts. Masonic Charities is one of the few organizations left that I know of who will happily give, no strings attached. The York rite branch actually has a fund to send clergy on pilgramiges to the Holy Land, all expenses paid. Also, Shriner hospital. Gee, we're real devil worshipers aren't we? Wish we could all just pass a bowl/blunt and get along, world would be such a better place. 8 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: I know you say this tongue-in-check Nehor style, but just to clarify to everyone an anti-pope is someone who claims to be the pope but is not. It is not a pope that goes off the rails. There would have to be competing claims to the papacy, where one would be legitimate and the others would not. What are the chances of something like that happening? If there's a big enough schizm, i could see some guy getting a lot of support, declaring anything related to the current pope and his supporters and himself being the new current supporter of the holy, correct teachings of Mother Church. Have to say, the Catholic/High churches have quite the history of bitter and at times bloody conflict.
poptart Posted May 1, 2019 Author Posted May 1, 2019 5 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: The LDS Hymnal has one of St Francis' hymns, "All Creatures of Our God and King," here rendered by the BYU Men's Chorus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny7mNzJK7ts . But, sorry, no Bob Marley. No Bob Marley, no dice. That simple... 1
poptart Posted May 1, 2019 Author Posted May 1, 2019 33 minutes ago, CV75 said: And he said, "No, you're the only heretic I see around here!" Hoping Nehor and I aren't the only ones who can appreciate these....
The Nehor Posted May 1, 2019 Posted May 1, 2019 34 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: I know you say this tongue-in-check Nehor style, but just to clarify to everyone an anti-pope is someone who claims to be the pope but is not. It is not a pope that goes off the rails. There would have to be competing claims to the papacy, where one would be legitimate and the others would not. Oh yeah, I know. I just figured this might lead to the rise of one, not that Francis will becomes one.
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