The Mormon Mexican Colonies

[Navidad]

46 minutes ago, USU78 said:

It was, I think, a little more muddled than that. See, e.g., 

http://www.crockettclan.org/wws/villa.html

There is no question the Saints had a meeting that night. They did obey Bishop Call and went home to sleep. The meeting was held in the house where George Romney was born. I did an informal fireside chat in that house one night. No one was harmed that night or any other by Villistas.

[Navidad]

7 hours ago, HiJolly said:

1. I have been to Colonia Juarez, where my great-grandfather was Stake President after the exodus. 

2. All four of my grandparents grew up in the Mexican Colonies. My last "church-legal" polygamist relative passed away in 1976, in Provo. 

3. Fairly good knowledge. It helps that I have the journals of Anthony Ivins, who was called by the Church to set up the colonies. Fascinating stuff.  

Pancho Villa (Doroteo was his true first name) was a wild man and not very saint-like, but he loved the Mormons and he did what he could to protect them from the Mexican Army and the red-flagger revolutionary rabble. General Salazar was not good to the Saints. He and his troops did much harm to the members in the colonies. 

While polygamy was illegal in Mexico, the Church had an agreement with the federal Mexican government that no prosecution would take place for the saints. 

I think the Ensign magazine has had a few articles about the colonies, but they were few and far between. I don't recall any dicussion on the colonies in regular church meetings. 

Four of the most famous revolutionaries, including General Salazar attended the Juarez Stake Academy (according to diaries). All the pre-revolutionary student records from the academy are lost. Salazar had a chip on his shoulder about the Saints and was an expert at brinksmanship. I would sure love to find the early academy records some time. The folks here think a custodian threw them all out in the 1950's.

[Navidad]

7 hours ago, HiJolly said:

1. I have been to Colonia Juarez, where my great-grandfather was Stake President after the exodus. 

2. All four of my grandparents grew up in the Mexican Colonies. My last "church-legal" polygamist relative passed away in 1976, in Provo. 

3. Fairly good knowledge. It helps that I have the journals of Anthony Ivins, who was called by the Church to set up the colonies. Fascinating stuff.  

Pancho Villa (Doroteo was his true first name) was a wild man and not very saint-like, but he loved the Mormons and he did what he could to protect them from the Mexican Army and the red-flagger revolutionary rabble. General Salazar was not good to the Saints. He and his troops did much harm to the members in the colonies. 

While polygamy was illegal in Mexico, the Church had an agreement with the federal Mexican government that no prosecution would take place for the saints. 

I think the Ensign magazine has had a few articles about the colonies, but they were few and far between. I don't recall any dicussion on the colonies in regular church meetings. 

The diaries and journals of Anthony Ivins have been published under the name "The Cowboy Apostle" as he was known. This is a wonderful treasure chest of early colony history. He was not an apostle when he was here, but he was the first Stake President. When he came back to El Paso to work things out with the colonists after the exodus, he was indeed an apostle. O.P. Miller a member of the church-wide bishopric came with him to represent the brethren. 

[Navidad]

7 hours ago, HiJolly said:

1. I have been to Colonia Juarez, where my great-grandfather was Stake President after the exodus. 

2. All four of my grandparents grew up in the Mexican Colonies. My last "church-legal" polygamist relative passed away in 1976, in Provo. 

3. Fairly good knowledge. It helps that I have the journals of Anthony Ivins, who was called by the Church to set up the colonies. Fascinating stuff.  

Pancho Villa (Doroteo was his true first name) was a wild man and not very saint-like, but he loved the Mormons and he did what he could to protect them from the Mexican Army and the red-flagger revolutionary rabble. General Salazar was not good to the Saints. He and his troops did much harm to the members in the colonies. 

While polygamy was illegal in Mexico, the Church had an agreement with the federal Mexican government that no prosecution would take place for the saints. 

I think the Ensign magazine has had a few articles about the colonies, but they were few and far between. I don't recall any dicussion on the colonies in regular church meetings. 

You have a wonderful heritage!

[Navidad]

On 3/31/2019 at 9:55 AM, RevTestament said:

I've been a Church member for over 40 years, and have never heard of the Mormon Mexican colonies in a Church setting. The Church does not speak of any polygamous offshoot groups as a general rule - I suppose they see that as possibly promoting apostasy. I have heard them decry polygamous groups in a general indirect way, but they don't name them in talks or publications. They might make it into news stories. I am not implying the whole of the colonies were polygamous, but just their ties to polygamy after the official ban is enough to earn them silence.

There were isolated plural marriages performed in the colonies in the 1920's.

[Navidad]

On 3/31/2019 at 10:20 AM, ALarson said:

I have not been to the Mormon Mexican Colonies, but I have ancestors that were "sent" down there (on both sides of my family).  If I understand correctly, it was mainly the 2nd (or 3rd, 4th, 5th, and so on...) wives who went down there to live.  My Grandfather was shot while escaping (being run out) when he was a youth.

I have read this book (link below)....what is your opinion of it?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0874808383/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Mormon Colonies in Mexico (By Thomas Cottam Romney).

It has a lot of good information in it. He lived to a ripe old age and was a brother to Junius Romney, the stake president who ordered the exodus of 1912.

[Navidad]

21 hours ago, sunstoned said:

I was acquainted with Ervil LeBaron, who originally was from the colonies in Mexico.

He was from the LeBaron colonies; not the LDS colonies. The LeBaron family has quite a history! 

[webbles]

33 minutes ago, Navidad said:

I hope no one minds if I clarify a few things. All of the folks who established the Mexican Mormon colonies were mainstream members of the Church. It is true that some, if not most were very conservative and many practiced the principle of plural marriage. However, they came because they were called to come by John Taylor. They were called from southern Utah and Arizona, Colorado, and New Mexico to colonize Mexico. They lived in many rural areas before coming here because many, but not all practiced plural marriage.

Brigham Young sent the first scouts here to find places for colonization in 1875. These early trips here included three apostles. Apostle Moses Thatcher then dedicated Mexico on Jan 25, 1880 for colonization, not for evangelism as many think. The idea was that if Anglo colonists came here to live, they would establish the means, resources, personnel, etc. to support the future evangelization. For the first twenty-some years the colonists focused on living and supporting themselves. The Church helped a lot in providing the funds to buy a lot of land. Of course, all of this land going into Anglo’s hands alienated many of the local folks who already lived here. There were many towns already in the area. That tension still exists to some degree to this day.

Our area was a hotbed of revolution. I have been unable to identify any Mormons who were killed or sexually molested as a result of the revolution, but certainly many were harassed, and much was stolen. The colonies that were actually settled with the blessing of the Church had  meeting houses, stores, etc. Lots of folks list different numbers of colonies, but I think a good list includes, Colonia Dublán, Colonia Guadalupe, Colonia Diaz, Colonia Juarez, Colonia Pacheco. Colonia Garcia, and Colonia Chuichupa, all in Chihuahua and Colonia Morelos, Colonia San Jose, and Colonia Oaxaca, all in Sonora. That makes 10 in all. There were other smaller temporary settlements, but they were never sanctioned by the Church. In July 1912 many of the saints returned to El Paso and Hachita NM and from there scattered around the west. They were not always well received by their brethren in the States because the Church had significantly changed between 1885 and 1912.

The most famous returnee was six-year-old George Romney, daddy of Mitt. The Saints here by in large are sad because Mitt has never come here nor acknowledged them publicly. That is a sore subject here.

Many returned to Mexico and were the forebearers of the folks who are here now. Perhaps there are somewhere between 600-800 Anglo Saints still here. They have a wonderful academy and a temple on a beautiful hilltop.

It is a complicated history. It is a sacred history. There are many  sacred places here where the Saints’ leaders sought God’s will for their future. I am proud and pleased to be associated with them to be a non-member attendee of the historic First Ward of Colonia Juarez. I love helping them enjoy and understand their sacred history!

I wouldn't say they "returned" to El Paso.  It was more fleeing.  In El Paso, my ancestors had a tough time trying to find a place to live.  They didn't know if they could go back to Mexico and so looked for places in the US where they could stay.

[Navidad]

43 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Where are you speaking?

At the MHA conference at the Sheraton and possibly at a bookstore. Not sure about that. 

[USU78]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

It appears to be on YouTube.  Since I don't know if that violates copyright, not posting link until some lawyer says it is okay.  

I'm feeling adventurous:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DofGgZxT3zs

[Tacenda]

31 minutes ago, Navidad said:

At the MHA conference at the Sheraton and possibly at a bookstore. Not sure about that. 

I'll have to check that out, thanks!

[sunstoned]

2 hours ago, Navidad said:

He was from the LeBaron colonies; not the LDS colonies. The LeBaron family has quite a history! 

He was a inmate in the Utah State Prison in the 1980's.  I was a prison guard at the time.  Working my way through school.  I spoke to him often.  He was a disturbed, evil man.  The evil seems to radiate off of him.  He was the kind of man that you would cross the street to avoid.

[JLHPROF]

2 hours ago, Navidad said:

At the MHA conference at the Sheraton and possibly at a bookstore. Not sure about that. 

I plan on attending the MHA conference this year.  I haven't been since 2016.  I will watch for your presentation.

[Tacenda]

10 hours ago, sunstoned said:

He was a inmate in the Utah State Prison in the 1980's.  I was a prison guard at the time.  Working my way through school.  I spoke to him often.  He was a disturbed, evil man.  The evil seems to radiate off of him.  He was the kind of man that you would cross the street to avoid.

His name should be Evil LeBaron, not Ervil.

[Navidad]

On 4/1/2019 at 7:19 PM, webbles said:

I wouldn't say they "returned" to El Paso.  It was more fleeing.  In El Paso, my ancestors had a tough time trying to find a place to live.  They didn't know if they could go back to Mexico and so looked for places in the US where they could stay.

Within two weeks of the exodus the Church leaders released all the colony members from their callings to colonize Mexico. They were allowed to stay in El Paso, go back to Mexico. Some also started new settlements in Arizona and elsewhere. At least 25% came back here to Mexico. Some went back to their home turf in the US. They were not always treated well when they went back "home."

[rodheadlee]

On 4/1/2019 at 6:32 PM, Tacenda said:

Navidad, do you have a problem crossing into the US ever? This just crossed my mind, since you mention coming here before. My son-in-law is from Aguascalientas. Too bad he crossed over illegally with his family at age 18, we've been trying to get him legal, paid a few thousand so far, but get cold feet on going through with it. Since it's such a touchy process and worried that he'll be deported. But he has been married to my daughter for nearly 15 years with two sons. 

 

I cross two or three times a month. It's not really a problem just a long wait in line two to three hours if you go at the wrong time. I am on a US passport but I see plenty of cars in line with Baja plates.

Edited April 3, 2019 by rodheadlee

[webbles]

7 hours ago, Navidad said:

Within two weeks of the exodus the Church leaders released all the colony members from their callings to colonize Mexico. They were allowed to stay in El Paso, go back to Mexico. Some also started new settlements in Arizona and elsewhere. At least 25% came back here to Mexico. Some went back to their home turf in the US. They were not always treated well when they went back "home."

You've mentioned the fact that they weren't "treated well when they went back home".  My ancestors don't mention that in their histories.  They had didn't return back to Utah but they did have family still in Utah that they visited on a regular basis (considering the time period and distance from southern Arizona to Utah).

It is possible that other saints had issues but this has made me wonder about the Canada settlements.  They were also used for polygamous members who wanted peace from the US authorities.  They also had several post-manifesto marriages.  They were also somewhat isolated from the rest of the Utah church.  Wouldn't they have also had problems similar to the Mexico colonies?  I don't know the Canada settlements very well so I have no idea how similar or different the two areas are.

[Navidad]

On 4/3/2019 at 7:16 PM, webbles said:

You've mentioned the fact that they weren't "treated well when they went back home".  My ancestors don't mention that in their histories.  They had didn't return back to Utah but they did have family still in Utah that they visited on a regular basis (considering the time period and distance from southern Arizona to Utah).

It is possible that other saints had issues but this has made me wonder about the Canada settlements.  They were also used for polygamous members who wanted peace from the US authorities.  They also had several post-manifesto marriages.  They were also somewhat isolated from the rest of the Utah church.  Wouldn't they have also had problems similar to the Mexico colonies?  I don't know the Canada settlements very well so I have no idea how similar or different the two areas are.

Sorry for the delay in responding. I have had a bad stomach flu. I don't know anything at all about the Canadian colonies except that they existed. So I can't help with that. One thing that is important about the Mexican colonies is that the folks came here as a result of a call from President John Taylor to colonize so they could provide a resource base for evangelization of the Lamanites in Mexico. Their purpose had a much deeper spiritual intent than just hiding out from the US agents who were pursuing them for their plural marriage practices. I think this is somehow lost in the history of our colonies. Those who left here in 1912 and stayed in the US had real challenges. Often the younger wife was sent back to her family of origin with her children. She often struggled to provide for them. The breakups of the plural marriage families was a tragedy for all members. Those who returned here managed to keep their families together and had very few problems with the revolutionaries. Orozco was dead. Salazar was then in jail until he aligned with Villa. Castillo was in prison in Fort Bliss and then exiled in Cuba. Apostle Anthony Ivins had strongly suggested that the Saints remain neutral. They didn't always take his advice. At times they helped the federal army of Huerta and the Villistas. The Mormons had big wagons and big horses that could pull artillery, and they did so.

The folks who went back to the US, according to early LDS scholars were denied callings and "relegated to the back pews." Even apostles built homes for their plural wives in the colonies. A. O. Woodruff's wife died here in Colonia Juarez from an infectious disease. Woodruff came to visit her, got sick himself and died in El Paso where he was sent for treatment. Each family has a different story of pain and suffering, especially those who stayed in the US. It is said the Junius Romney, the stake president who ordered the exodus never publicly spoke of it for almost fifty years. All that time he thought the Church leaders did not want it discussed. His grandson's book indicates that he never accepted another church calling. I did however find that he may have accepted a seat in the high council in his stake around 1950.  He was only 30ish at the time of the exodus.   It took a chance meeting on a train with President J. Rueben Clark who as solicitor general of the state department and then chief counsel for the ambassador to Mexico, and then as ambassador here, was very involved in Mexican affairs, to give Romney the permission he needed to discuss the complicated nature of what had happened.  

It would take until the 1920-30's for the Anglo Saints in Mexico to fulfill their original calling and be active in missionary work in Mexico. The parents of the current senior generation here were the first ones to really go out across Mexico and evangelize from the colonies. It was a difficult and complex situation. I am doing all I can to help reignite the enthusiasm for the study of the Mexican colonies. Many of the old diaries are much less than accurate in describing events that happened. It is a real process of sifting through the accounts to find the real "no kidding" history of the colonies.

[mfbukowski]

On 3/31/2019 at 3:00 PM, JAHS said:

My great great grandfather Josiah Guile Hardy was involved in plural marriage, but he only had two wives.  In the late 1800's he lived in the Mexican colonies in Colonia Parcheco, Chihuana, Mexico. He died there in 1894. You can Google his name and find out more if you want.

But wait- did you know that he was reincarnated as Don Bradley??

 

[JAHS]

51 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

But wait- did you know that he was reincarnated as Don Bradley??

 

 

53 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

On 3/31/2019 at 3:00 PM, JAHS said:

My great great grandfather Josiah Guile Hardy was involved in plural marriage, but he only had two wives.  In the late 1800's he lived in the Mexican colonies in Colonia Parcheco, Chihuana, Mexico. He died there in 1894. You can Google his name and find out more if you want.

But wait- did you know that he was reincarnated as Don Bradley??

 

Actually I think he was reincarnated as my brother Bob

[Tacenda]

On 4/5/2019 at 2:40 PM, mfbukowski said:

But wait- did you know that he was reincarnated as Don Bradley??

 

Don's going to kill you, haha! But that is an amazing resemblance!  Here's a video with the same vibe!