mfbukowski Posted October 30, 2018 Posted October 30, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, LittleNipper said: Not without BIBLICAL SUPPORT. Salvation is not founded on feelings, but the inspired WORD of GOD. The Holy Spirit brings about this conviction, that JESUS is the CHRIST --- the only connected SON of GOD. Yeah because the Bible is the only source. That's okay for whatever reason you are not following the argument. Yes of course the Bible tells us about Jesus where else would you go for it? Science? The point is that the Holy Ghost confirms it by feelings in your heart. So the confirmation is by feelings. Glad to know we agree. What is a "conviction" if it is not a Feeling? Edited October 30, 2018 by mfbukowski 3
LittleNipper Posted October 31, 2018 Author Posted October 31, 2018 6 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Yeah because the Bible is the only source. That's okay for whatever reason you are not following the argument. Yes of course the Bible tells us about Jesus where else would you go for it? Science? The point is that the Holy Ghost confirms it by feelings in your heart. So the confirmation is by feelings. Glad to know we agree. What is a "conviction" if it is not a Feeling? Science can only confirm what one observes. If it cannot be confirmed it can only be theorized. And theorize is akin to philosophize. Spirituality is not simply based on what one feels. Romans 10:14 ► Parallel Verses King James Version How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Clearly, there is revelation involved. Do Mormons have ministers and preachers?
LittleNipper Posted October 31, 2018 Author Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Vance said: How did you know it was the Holy Spirit? Because of a feeling in your heart? It was more like a still small voice in my head. My Bible doesn't contradict itself and is full of historically accurate information and fulfilled prophecy. It isn't the work of one man nor many. It is a coherent accurate revelation. Edited October 31, 2018 by LittleNipper
mfbukowski Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 51 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: Science can only confirm what one observes. If it cannot be confirmed it can only be theorized. And theorize is akin to philosophize. Spirituality is not simply based on what one feels. Romans 10:14 ► Parallel Verses King James Version How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? Clearly, there is revelation involved. Do Mormons have ministers and preachers? Yes of course. you seem to really know nothing about Mormonism. Except perhaps what you read on some crazy sites. 1
MiserereNobis Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 55 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: It is a coherent accurate revelation Yes, God directed His Church, the Roman Catholic Church, to compile it. Why don't you come back home to the Church that gave you the Bible? 4
Jane_Doe Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: It was more like a still small voice in my head. My Bible doesn't contradict itself and is full of historically accurate information and fulfilled prophecy. It isn't the work of one man nor many. It is a coherent accurate revelation. Honestly, if I was a person to judge scripture by humans ability to scientifically/historically "prove" a text to be true, I would toss the entire Bible and JudeoChristian tradition out the window just based on Genesis alone. However, I not such a person at all: I also acknowledge other tools in the learning toolbox, including the Holy Spirit. Hence my passionate belief in the Bible and Christ. Edited October 31, 2018 by Jane_Doe 3
LittleNipper Posted October 31, 2018 Author Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said: Honestly, if I was a person to judge scripture by humans ability to scientifically/historically "prove" a text to be true, I would toss the entire Bible and JudeoChristian tradition out the window just based on Genesis alone. However, I not such a person at all: I also acknowledge other tools in the learning toolbox, including the Holy Spirit. Hence my passionate belief in the Bible and Christ. It doesn't at all seem odd to me that you made no mention of The Book of Mormon (Honestly, if I was a person to judge scripture by humans ability to scientifically/historically "prove" a text to be true, I would toss the entire Bible and JudeoChristian tradition out the window). Even Joseph Smith held his book in higher regard. "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was more correct than any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.194). Edited October 31, 2018 by LittleNipper
Jane_Doe Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: It doesn't at all seem odd to me that you made no mention of The Book of Mormon (Honestly, if I was a person to judge scripture by humans ability to scientifically/historically "prove" a text to be true, I would toss the entire Bible and JudeoChristian tradition out the window). Even Joseph Smith held his book in higher regard. "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was more correct than any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.194). If what-can-we-"prove"-with-science-and-history was my stance, why would waste my time even looking at the Book of Mormon, when the Bible is obviously such a laughable myth? (Obviously the above isn't really my view. There are way more tools in the learning tool box than just science and history) Edited October 31, 2018 by Jane_Doe
LittleNipper Posted October 31, 2018 Author Posted October 31, 2018 1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said: Yes, God directed His Church, the Roman Catholic Church, to compile it. Why don't you come back home to the Church that gave you the Bible? It must be historically understood that the bishop of Rome was simply one many other "pastors/bishops" who met to consider the cannon of the Bible. At that time there was no "head" bishop. They all carried equal weight.
mfbukowski Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: It must be historically understood that the bishop of Rome was simply one many other "pastors/bishops" who met to consider the cannon of the Bible. At that time there was no "head" bishop. They all carried equal weight. Why do you assume that he does not know more about Catholicism than you do? Your hubris is staggering. Look it up. 1
LittleNipper Posted October 31, 2018 Author Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: If what-can-we-"prove"-with-science-and-history was my stance, why would waste my time even looking at the Book of Mormon, when the Bible is obviously such a laughable myth? (Obviously the above isn't really my view. There are way more tools in the learning tool box than just science and history) I've considered science investigation. The only myth I find impossible to swallow is evolution and the very idea that life was not created but sprang from non-biological materials without any intelligence orchestrating such an event. The book of Mormon far from being an asset to the Bible is in fact a monkey on the Bible's back that carries about as much validity as Santa Claus. Actually less --- Saint Nicolas it seems was an actual person. While I do not seek additional testimony, I find Creation Research very comforting and more than a match for pagan hedonistic evolutionary theories. By evolution I'm not suggesting there is no variation. Heaven Forbid! We are all different. Every snowflake is different; however, such differences and variations happen within KINDS and do not result in the formation of new additional KINDS. Therefore, I can understand that wolves and dogs can be of the same KIND. And that tigers, mountain lions, and cats may in fact be another KIND. However Man is not the end result of apes evolving. Apes are one kind and man is a special creation and related only by who designed each. Imagine if you will the computer and all its many programs. Was it created by man or did it simply appear? Now consider human lifeforms. Are they any less complex than a computer? Is DNA not a program of sorts? The fool has said in his heart there is no GOD. The intelligent man will at the very least ponder aloud and reflect and ponder some more. Rather than instigate discussion, the atheist and evolutionists want to keep philosophical and even mathematical investigation under its thumb --- if not locked away in the closet... Learning is the end result of questioning and investigating. Wisdom is not the end result of merely agreeing nor stifling conflict. Public education today in the US is very 2 dimensional, and I feel that it can be proven that this began with Bible reading being removed from schools. This fact alone should make one wonder at the influential power of the Word of GOD. Edited October 31, 2018 by LittleNipper
Jane_Doe Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: I've considered science investigation. The only myth I find impossible to swallow is evolution and the very idea that life was not created but sprang from non-biological materials without any intelligence orchestrating such an event. The book of Mormon far from being an asset to the Bible, is in fact a monkey on it back that carries about as much the validity of Santa Claus. Actually less, Saint Nicolas it seems was an actual person. While I do not seek additional testimony, I find Creation Research very comforting and more than a match for pagan hedonistic evolutionary theories. Ah, you and I disagree on about every point here. PS: I have thoroughly studied evolution. In fact, studying evolution and adaptation are literally part of my job. "Creation research" is... frankly, laughable. If I were to just use science to guide my understanding of the world, I would find the Bible to be a complete joke. Instead, using my full toolbox, I don't find any conflict between my faith and science-- rather they support each other, telling different parts of the same story. 3
MiserereNobis Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 1 hour ago, LittleNipper said: It must be historically understood that the bishop of Rome was simply one many other "pastors/bishops" who met to consider the cannon of the Bible. At that time there was no "head" bishop. They all carried equal weight. So what bishop do you follow?
LittleNipper Posted October 31, 2018 Author Posted October 31, 2018 26 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: Ah, you and I disagree on about every point here. PS: I have thoroughly studied evolution. In fact, studying evolution and adaptation are literally part of my job. "Creation research" is... frankly, laughable. If I were to just use science to guide my understanding of the world, I would find the Bible to be a complete joke. Instead, using my full toolbox, I don't find any conflict between my faith and science-- rather they support each other, telling different parts of the same story. Well laugh at this, it is my contention that the saber toothed tiger was merely a tiger that had the good fortune to live a whole lot longer than tigers can today. That is because their gene pool was pristine and the environment was as close to perfect as could be expected after the FALL of Adam and Eve. This would all change very quickly after the FLOOD of Noah. Look at it this way, we adapt to a hotter environment by inventing air conditioning. That doesn't make us physically better. We simply have learned to cope. There is a very interesting story in the Bible about goat breeding. I'll let it to you to find it. The point is that the Bible is a multidimensional book. It's far deeper than you may think. The Bible has no conflicts with TRUE scientific procedures -- observation, repeatability of experimentation. I believe the FLOOD happened and I believe science proves it. Jesus spoke of Adan and Noah and his time. I do not doubt anything JESUS stated. I do not claim to comprehend everything --- I'll leave that to Mormons 🙄
Jane_Doe Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 Just now, LittleNipper said: Well laugh at this, it is my contention that the saber toothed tiger was merely a tiger that had the good fortune to live a whole lot longer than tigers can today. That is because their gene pool was pristine and the environment was as close to perfect as could be expected after the FALL of Adam and Eve. This would all change very quickly after the FLOOD of Noah. Look at it this way, we adapt to a hotter environment by inventing air conditioning. That doesn't make us physically better. We simply have learned to cope. You told me to laugh, and that I did. PS-- tigers happen to be my original love in the natural world. Studied them for ~12 years.
LittleNipper Posted October 31, 2018 Author Posted October 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: So what bishop do you follow? Let's but it this way. I follow the head of the UNIVERSAL CHURCH, and HIS name is JESUS MESSIAH(Christ). I do not follow either bishops or prophets. However, I will in fact regard a bishop/pastor's Bible message and I do like to read Daniel --- now there was a real prophet.
LittleNipper Posted October 31, 2018 Author Posted October 31, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: You told me to laugh, and that I did. PS-- tigers happen to be my original love in the natural world. Studied them for ~12 years. Well that's good, but consider the age of Methuselah. and what would a healthy tiger look like in a comfortable environment high in nutrients and oxygen that lived say 400 years. Now ponder what a seemingly healthy man might look like under the very same conditions who was middle aged at say 450 years. Might he be a Neanderthal? How would such age affect his bone structure and the shape of his skull? Never thought of that? I bet the professors would tell you the Bible is only a moral story at best... But what investigations did they do to come to such a conclusion??????? Let's face facts, a guy doing pot and sleeping with his girlfriend and writing an analysis on Darwin's theory to become head of the Biological Department, isn't about to want to prove that GOD is someone real to contend with --- it would upset his little worldly apple cart. Edited October 31, 2018 by LittleNipper
MiserereNobis Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 18 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: Let's but it this way. I follow the head of the UNIVERSAL CHURCH, and HIS name is JESUS MESSIAH(Christ). I do not follow either bishops or prophets. However, I will in fact regard a bishop/pastor's Bible message and I do like to read Daniel --- now there was a real prophet. Ok, then back to my original point. Why do you accept the Bible of Catholicism but not the Catholic Church? The Catholic Church put the Bible together, so God was obviously working through the Catholic Church. Why not come back to the Church that God obviously used? 2
Jane_Doe Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: Well that's good, but consider the age of Methuselah. and what would a healthy tiger look like in a comfortable environment high in nutrients and oxygen that lived say 400 years. Now ponder what a seemingly healthy man might look like under the very same conditions who was middle aged at say 450 years. Might he be a Neanderthal? How would such age affect his bone structure and the shape of his skull? Never thought of that? I bet the professors would tell you the Bible is only a moral story at best... But what investigations did they do to come to such a conclusion??????? Let's face facts, a guy doing pot and sleeping with his girlfriend isn't about to want to prove that GOD is someone real to contend with --- it would upset his apple cart. You keeping thinking whatever you want
Calm Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 Quote There is a very interesting story in the Bible about goat breeding. Nipper, you really think using peeled sticks will yield spotted goats? 1
The Nehor Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: Yes, God directed His Church, the Roman Catholic Church, to compile it. Why don't you come back home to the Church that gave you the Bible? I appreciate the Catholics preserving the Bible. I wish you had preserved more stuff in it but beggars can't be choosers.
LittleNipper Posted October 31, 2018 Author Posted October 31, 2018 Just now, MiserereNobis said: Ok, then back to my original point. Why do you accept the Bible of Catholicism but not the Catholic Church? The Catholic Church put the Bible together, so God was obviously working through the Catholic Church. Why not come back to the Church that God obviously used? Because, bluntly, I find that the Roman Catholic church has very little in common with the church bodies that existed back at that time. They thought that Mary (when they thought of her) was a very blessed sinner much like the rest of them, and they wouldn't think of praying to each other let alone to Mary. They would not call the Bishop of Rome "Pope" only the Father in heaven was the FATHER. They abhorred statuary as pagan. They didn't believe in purgatory (no Biblical evidence). CHRIST's CHURCH worked to establish the Bible and collecting the letters the Apostles' wrote and distributed. And they taught the Word in the language of the common people, Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew and Latin. And they didn't believe in TRANSUBSTANTIATION --- that was to later infiltrate the Roman church and be used as the means to frighten the superstitious under the threat of excommunicated --- both by withholding that and water baptism.... As something only the "church" authorities had power to perform.
LittleNipper Posted October 31, 2018 Author Posted October 31, 2018 23 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: You keeping thinking whatever you want And you just believe whatever you're told.😉
Jane_Doe Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 Just now, LittleNipper said: And you just believe whatever you're told.😉 Haha, you're giving me LOTS of laughs tonight. Thanks for that.
Anakin7 Posted October 31, 2018 Posted October 31, 2018 Question to LittleNipper, where do you go to worship God besides your heart and mind ?. Do you have a Church you attend ?.thanks. The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine Washing My Garment/Robe In His Blood In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
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